Proud and Prejudice

[alpine_saint]

I don't know enough about them to comment, so I won't try.

 

Cop-out, on the same scale as Arsene Wenger not seeing fouls from his players deserving of a red card.

 

Especially considering how knowledgable you claim to be on everything else.

[pap]

The UAF were set up with the sole purpose of opposing the BNP and now EDL. Why aren't they demonstation and disrupting marches by Islamic extremists?

 

Off the top of my head, because they were set up with the sole purpose of opposing the BNP.

 

You may also be surprised to know that the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament didn't demonstrate against pea-shooters either.

[alpine_saint]

the UAF and EDL can't and won't exist without each other....

 

That's plain wrong, TDD.

 

The EDL have an agenda (whether you sympathise with or are disgusted by it, it exists). They would exist without the UAF.

 

The UAF exist purely to prevent the EDF and BNP exercising their right to free speech. No EDF/BNP, no reason for existence.

[pap]

sorry, was not at any stop the war demos...I was too busy taking part in it..

 

Yeah, silly me - I was out on the streets trying to stop my brothers and sisters getting killed or injured in needless conflicts.

 

Horses for courses, I suppose.

[Thedelldays]

Yeah, silly me - I was out on the streets trying to stop my brothers and sisters getting killed or injured in needless conflicts.

 

Horses for courses, I suppose.

please don't....me, or they don't want you to. we are all volunteers and are free to submit a request to leave (as I am considering)

 

I do laugh at the great unwashed (sorry) shouting at cameras to "bring our boys home"....eer, our "boys" want to be there and many ask to go back

[alpine_saint]

please don't....me, or they don't want you to. we are all volunteers and are free to submit a request to leave (as I am considering)

 

I do laugh at the great unwashed (sorry) shouting at cameras to "bring our boys home"....eer, our "boys" want to be there and many ask to go back

 

Why do you want to leave now ? You've always seemed so proud of and so committed to your service

[Turkish]

Off the top of my head, because they were set up with the sole purpose of opposing the BNP.

 

You may also be surprised to know that the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament didn't demonstrate against pea-shooters either.

 

That's the point, why just target the EDL and BNP? They claim to hate extremism, so why aren't they campaigning against Islamic extremists as well?

[Thedelldays]

Why do you want to leave now ? You've always seemed so proud of and so committed to your service

various reasons....may not but seriously thinking about it.

[alpine_saint]

That's the point, why just target the EDL and BNP? They claim to hate extremism, so why aren't they campaigning against Islamic extremists as well?

 

Game, set & match to Turkish

[Thedelldays]

That's the point, why just target the EDL and BNP? They claim to hate extremism, so why aren't they campaigning against Islamic extremists as well?

I too would like to know this

 

maybe Thorpie-le-saint will answer...?

[pap]

please don't....me, or they don't want you to. we are all volunteers and are free to submit a request to leave (as I am considering)

 

I do laugh at the great unwashed (sorry) shouting at cameras to "bring our boys home"....eer, our "boys" want to be there and many ask to go back

 

Our boys, at least with Iraq, were sent to war on a lie.

 

Even in Afghanistan, there's a good argument to suggest that we should have gone surgical on OBL (which in fact, is what eventually happened).

 

I appreciate that you take the Queen's Shilling, Jamie - so I'm not expecting anything else than what you've written here. Despite your likely pre-conceptions about what someone on the left thinks of the Armed Forces, I have a massive amount of respect for those that serve and the sacrifice they are prepared to make.

 

I'm just not personally willing to sacrifice them to improve Halliburton's bottom-line, particularly when that process creates a load of Islamic extremists.

[pap]

Game, set & match to Turkish

 

I'm glad they don't let you umpire at Wimbledon anymore.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

im not...they are all equally moronic..I can't stand the UAF and the people that support their views...and many do on here, which is utterly DISGUSTING...I also can't stand the EDL and think they are nobs of the highest order.

 

could easily live without both...there, I am one of the few here that generally can't stand them both and not hypocritical in saying so

 

Fair enough, thanks for clarifying.

[Seaford Saint]

Our boys, at least with Iraq, were sent to war on a lie.

 

Even in Afghanistan, there's a good argument to suggest that we should have gone surgical on OBL (which in fact, is what eventually happened).

 

I appreciate that you take the Queen's Shilling, Jamie - so I'm not expecting anything else than what you've written here. Despite your likely pre-conceptions about what someone on the left thinks of the Armed Forces, I have a massive amount of respect for those that serve and the sacrifice they are prepared to make.

 

I'm just not personally willing to sacrifice them to improve Halliburton's bottom-line, particularly when that process creates a load of Islamic extremists.

 

Agree with everything you say here. I do believe that war is used to further the ambitions of various multinantionals.

[manji]

How pathetic. You know fully bloody well that the UAF is the modern-day Anti-Nazi League and they fought against the NF back in the 70s. They filled in the time in-between causing trouble at BNP rallyes.

 

Must be a real bummer for them trying to potentially cover two events at a time, BNP and EDL, mob-handed.

The Anti-Nazi League didnt do any fighting I can assure you. The fighting was done by Red Action. ANL was just a bunch of wooly headed liberals.

[manji]

Tommy Robinson is just a not very bright figurehead. The EDL are actually Bank-rolled by a Zionist businessman called Alan Lake. Clearly it is in Israels interest to encourage anti-Muslim feeling in Europe.

[Turkish]

Tommy Robinson is just a not very bright figurehead. The EDL are actually Bank-rolled by a Zionist businessman called Alan Lake. Clearly it is in Israels interest to encourage anti-Muslim feeling in Europe.

 

He actually came across as fairly reasonable with some good points at first. As soon as he started to get questioned on it though he just came across as a an utter ****. His 'slipping the old bill' on the bus was cringeworthy.

[ericofarabia]

i was watching EMPIRE on BBC1 with Jeremy Paxman, an excellent bit of television that should be showed in every school in Britain , educational and fascinating, i am proud of the legacy that the British left in so many places. Eric of Arabia was game as f*ck

 

 

I am spreading the knowledge and love of all things Southampton FC - some people need more persuading than others!!

[JackanorySFC]

He actually came across as fairly reasonable with some good points at first. As soon as he started to get questioned on it though he just came across as a an utter ****. His 'slipping the old bill' on the bus was cringeworthy.

 

I was just about to text a mate to say that he was coming across really well, until the bit where he was p***ed up in Luton Town centre. All downhill for him after that.

 

Have to say I do agree with his priciples, multi cultural Britain does work, integration has worked, homophobia is archaic and someone's skin colour certainly doesn't matter - we are all British. The problem being those that down right refuse to adopt our culture and way of life and go out of their way to condemn us for living as we do when there's a perfectly good one way flight to Lahore or Saudi from Heathrow if they want the alternative.

 

His main problem was his idea was over taken by complete morons, BNP/ NF etc. Nothing wrong with EDL, those that do any research will see that, however they just have some clowns that follow them thinking they are BNP lite and/ or a good opportunity to have a tear up with Asians.

[Saintandy666]

So what does it tell us about Tommy Robinson's points if when questioned he falls to pieces?

 

The simple fact of the matter is that people like him incite racial hatred and violence and we should just tear them to shreds until they have no validity left. The same for extremists of all kind. It seems that this probably happened last night, though I didn't catch the programme. I'm just going on what people said here.

[Gingeletiss]

School with 700 pupils has only 26 native English speakers

Byron Primary in Bradford school has fewer than one in 20 pupils speaking English as their first language, it has emerged.

The primary has 26 out of 700 pupils who speak English as a mother tongue, with 96.3 per cent using another language.

It has the highest proportion of children speaking an alternative first language in the Bradford district, where more than 23,000 of the 54,146 pupils use foreign dialects.

The figures, released under the Freedom of Information Act, revealed that primary school children in the area speak in 140 different tongues, including Punjabi, Urdu, Bengali and Polish.

Only London, Slough, Luton and Leicester have higher proportions of non-English speaking children, with the national average reaching around one in six pupils.

[Turkish]

So what does it tell us about Tommy Robinson's points if when questioned he falls to pieces?

 

The simple fact of the matter is that people like him incite racial hatred and violence and we should just tear them to shreds until they have no validity left. The same for extremists of all kind. It seems that this probably happened last night, though I didn't catch the programme. I'm just going on what people said here.

 

His inital points were that multiculturalism only works of people that come here integrate into society, not celebrate the deaths of their home countries soilders, demonstrate on a 9/11 memorial day and claim they want to put the whole country under sharia law and make them Islamic. Nothing wrong with this, it his later drunken rants against all Muslims and idiotic behaviour that showed him up.

 

As I said above the only who who came out of it with any credit and talked any sense was the Iman at the mosque they spoke to several times.

[pap]

School with 700 pupils has only 26 native English speakers

Byron Primary in Bradford school has fewer than one in 20 pupils speaking English as their first language, it has emerged.

The primary has 26 out of 700 pupils who speak English as a mother tongue, with 96.3 per cent using another language.

It has the highest proportion of children speaking an alternative first language in the Bradford district, where more than 23,000 of the 54,146 pupils use foreign dialects.

The figures, released under the Freedom of Information Act, revealed that primary school children in the area speak in 140 different tongues, including Punjabi, Urdu, Bengali and Polish.

Only London, Slough, Luton and Leicester have higher proportions of non-English speaking children, with the national average reaching around one in six pupils.

 

I didn't know we had Daily Telegraph journalists posting on TSW.

 

Never knew your name was Hannah either, Gingeletiss.

[Saintandy666]

His inital points were that multiculturalism only works of people that come here integrate into society, not celebrate the deaths of their home countries soilders, demonstrate on a 9/11 memorial day and claim they want to put the whole country under sharia law and make them Islamic. Nothing wrong with this, it his later drunken rants against all Muslims and idiotic behaviour that showed him up.

 

As I said above the only who who came out of it with any credit and talked any sense was the Iman at the mosque they spoke to several times.

 

 

The multiculturalism you seem to like is liberal multiculturalism then... private flourishing, but public central core values that all must be encouraged to have. Tolerance and even celebration of different cultural practices, except those that are illiberal like sharia law obviously is. I find it hard to reconcile myself with large parts of multiculturalism due to its love of positive discrimination as I rather think it creates as Brian Barry nicely put it 'two groups of people with unequal rights' which I don't like at all(treats the symptoms of racial hatred, not the causes).

 

Tommy Robinson is a very unpleasant and racist individual and he helps absolutely nothing.

[manji]

IMO the thing that most people miss in an argument over multi-culturalism is who benefits from it most. It generally isnt the immigrants or the indigenous population it is the business class. It undermines the solidarity of the community. It provides a mass of hard working people who are prepared to work for lower wages. I dont believe for a minute that immigrants come over here to damage this country they are just pawns in a bigger conspiracy.

The trouble is as well is that if you dare criticise immigration you are immediately shouted down as a racist or a nazi .There is no real debate nd thats the way the ruling class wants it.

[pap]

IMO the thing that most people miss in an argument over multi-culturalism is who benefits from it most. It generally isnt the immigrants or the indigenous population it is the business class. It undermines the solidarity of the community. It provides a mass of hard working people who are prepared to work for lower wages. I dont believe for a minute that immigrants come over here to damage this country they are just pawns in a bigger conspiracy.

The trouble is as well is that if you dare criticise immigration you are immediately shouted down as a racist or a nazi .There is no real debate nd thats the way the ruling class wants it.

 

Good call.

 

I've said on other threads that multi-culturalism is a means of playing divide-and-rule on your own doorstep.

 

Works very well, too.

[Hamilton Saint]

please don't....me, or they don't want you to. we are all volunteers and are free to submit a request to leave (as I am considering)

 

I do laugh at the great unwashed (sorry) shouting at cameras to "bring our boys home"....eer, our "boys" want to be there and many ask to go back

 

Which bit do they like so much? Killing people? Getting killed? Getting maimed by a IED? Getting PTSS?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

Who can this be?!!

 

Hello darlings. I'm always thrilled to be so popular on here. I hate to point out, again, that I haven't been a member of UAF for about 3 years. Tis getting ever so tedious now this 'joke' is it not Turkish, TDD, et al? Especially you Turkish, you're normally funnier.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

I too would like to know this

 

maybe Thorpie-le-saint will answer...?

 

I've done enough outstanding teaching for one day. I could tell you, but I instead direct you to http://www.uaf.org.uk where it will tell you all you need to know.

 

Cue "You don't know", "cop out" etc, but I'm sorry, I've got work to do.

Edited 28 February, 2012 by Thorpe-le-Saint

[pap]

Hello darlings. I'm always thrilled to be so popular on here. I hate to point out, again, that I haven't been a member of UAF for about 3 years. Tis getting ever so tedious now this 'joke' is it not Turkish, TDD, et al? Especially you Turkish, you're normally funnier.

 

Vulcan logic dictates that someone took the jam out of Turkish's doughnut.

 

If you eliminate the impossible only the improbable remains.

[Jonnyboy]

Pap (pwned) Turkish on UI. True story.

[Bearsy]

Erm are you licensed to use Sainticons^TM?

[Turkish]

Hello darlings. I'm always thrilled to be so popular on here. I hate to point out, again, that I haven't been a member of UAF for about 3 years. Tis getting ever so tedious now this 'joke' is it not Turkish, TDD, et al? Especially you Turkish, you're normally funnier.

 

As an ex-member maybe you could explain why despite hating extremism they don't protest against Islamic extremists?

[pap]

Erm are you licensed to use Sainticons^TM?

 

I didn't realise you were claiming intellectual property rights. You're as bad as them bankers.

[Jonnyboy]

Erm are you licensed to use Sainticons^TM?

 

I thought that Paypal payment into the "yogibearsy" account covered it??

[Bearsy]

I didn't realise you were claiming intellectual property rights. You're as bad as them bankers.

 

You've got to think of all the effort I've put in pap! Some of those Sainticons^TM took literally minutes to find on google.

 

Somewhere I've got to recoup these costs. I'm trying to get a 10% discount against my Saintsweb subscription but the mods are playing hardball at the mo.

 

I thought that Paypal payment into the "yogibearsy" account covered it??

 

I see where you went wrong that ain't yogi - it's one of the hairbearsy's!

[View From The Top]

I think most would accept the point that immigration is about assimilation and not separation but I felt that the EDL and MAC both came across as absolute neo-Nazi scumbags and should be put down.

[Saintandy666]

Cop-out, on the same scale as Arsene Wenger not seeing fouls from his players deserving of a red card.

 

Especially considering how knowledgable you claim to be on everything else.

 

I have never claimed to be knowledgeable on anything. I merely give my opinion when a discussion topic is put up.

[SuperMikey]

School with 700 pupils has only 26 native English speakers

Byron Primary in Bradford school has fewer than one in 20 pupils speaking English as their first language, it has emerged.

The primary has 26 out of 700 pupils who speak English as a mother tongue, with 96.3 per cent using another language.

It has the highest proportion of children speaking an alternative first language in the Bradford district, where more than 23,000 of the 54,146 pupils use foreign dialects.

The figures, released under the Freedom of Information Act, revealed that primary school children in the area speak in 140 different tongues, including Punjabi, Urdu, Bengali and Polish.

Only London, Slough, Luton and Leicester have higher proportions of non-English speaking children, with the national average reaching around one in six pupils.

 

So who gives a f*ck? They're still humans, they still breathe and blink and eat and drink. Who cares if they speak another language?

[hypochondriac]

So who gives a f*ck? They're still humans, they still breathe and blink and eat and drink. Who cares if they speak another language?

 

Well from my experience, if a foreigner does not speak English and lives here, they find themselves very isolated and make little or no attempt to learn about Britain or its culture. I don't think that's right personally.

[Saintandy666]

Well from my experience, if a foreigner does not speak English and lives here, they find themselves very isolated and make little or no attempt to learn about Britain or its culture. I don't think that's right personally.

 

Where does it say that they can not speak English as a second language too?

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

As an ex-member maybe you could explain why despite hating extremism they don't protest against Islamic extremists?

 

I hate to be pedantic, but UAF protest against the far right, not 'extremism'. If you insist on making this comparison can you state the far-right aspects/aims/policies etc of, for example, MAC? I'm happy to debate, but we need to be well informed do we not?

[Thedelldays]

I would say many of the extremist views, that we saw in telly are infanct, far right.!!!!

[SuperMikey]

Well from my experience, if a foreigner does not speak English and lives here, they find themselves very isolated and make little or no attempt to learn about Britain or its culture. I don't think that's right personally.

 

Britain is a construct. It does not exist. We uphold the values of our country and control the culture we live in, it's not a fixed thing. Culture adapts and is changed by the people who experience it. It's people that come in from other nations that change our culture for the better - people seem to think that multi-culturalism is a bad thing.

[hypochondriac]

Where does it say that they can not speak English as a second language too?

 

Nothing wrong with that. My real world experience is that quite a few minority groups tend not to be very sociable and make no attempt to integrate at all. My dealings with families from India for example have largely been negative with them quite unfriendly and in some cases rude an hostile when they have been the ones in the wrong. I don't actually blame these families completely because sometimes they are unaware of British ways of doing things.

 

Those who have read previous posts know what I do.

[hypochondriac]

Britain is a construct. It does not exist. We uphold the values of our country and control the culture we live in, it's not a fixed thing. Culture adapts and is changed by the people who experience it. It's people that come in from other nations that change our culture for the better - people seem to think that multi-culturalism is a bad thing.

 

People who come from other cultures do not always change our culture for the better. That is plainly rubbish.

[Verbal]

Nothing wrong with that. My real world experience is that quite a few minority groups tend not to be very sociable and make no attempt to integrate at all. My dealings with families from India for example have largely been negative with them quite unfriendly and in some cases rude an hostile when they have been the ones in the wrong. I don't actually blame these families completely because sometimes they are unaware of British ways of doing things.

 

Those who have read previous posts know what I do.

 

How do Indian families react to you any differently to people on here? And why would that be, I wonder?

 

Still, dribbling on about your 'real world experience' was an excellent joke. Well done.

[hypochondriac]

How do Indian families react to you any differently to people on here? And why would that be, I wonder?

 

Still, dribbling on about your 'real world experience' was an excellent joke. Well done.

 

Seeing as you know nothing at all about my real life, I would stay quiet. I certainly wouldn't think that what I write on here is anything to do with how I am in real life. I get on well with a number of minority groups. The polish individuals I work with are extremely friendly but in my experience, certain minority groups have no interest in integration and they can come across as rude and hostile as a result.

[Verbal]

Seeing as you know nothing at all about my real life, I would stay quiet. I certainly wouldn't think that what I write on here is anything to do with how I am in real life. I get on well with a number of minority groups. The polish individuals I work with are extremely friendly but in my experience, certain minority groups have no interest in integration and they can come across as rude and hostile as a result.

 

Keep going - please tell me you're joking. If not, some advice: it's not them, it's you.

[sydney_saint]

I watched this too. We should all be very proud of our colonial history.

 

I know this is not the focus of this debate, but am surprised and disappointed by this attitude. I can not speak on behalf of other countries, only my own, but the British colonial legacy in Australia, in summary, is not something to be proud of and something that has not received the international attention it deserves. Under the Genocide Convention definition, the Colony committed genocide against the oldest living culture in the world, on the bases of inferiority, something that exists in our system still. If you listen and read old documents and tape recordings, there was a definite, premeditated and deliberate attempt to wipe out the Aboriginals here, including the deliberate release of diseases and discussions on rounding up Aboriginal people so that they would die out 'naturally'. Many Australians even are unaware of the extreme attempts and loss of life that shattered a mostly unprovoked, diverse Nations that I'm confident was not adequately covered in this documentary, otherwise you would not be so proud.

 

Since British colonial rule we have lost hundreds of languages, cultures and stories, compounded by the relative isolation and differences in Aboriginal Communities. They were wiped out in Tasmania, and the impacts are still here to see, with the average life expectancy of Indigenous peoples around 30 years less than us 'british' Australians. I will not go ranting any further, as this is not the direction of this thread but if this is something to be proud of, the wiping out of hundreds of different cultures and lifestyles, than I do not see how you are any better then any other extremist.