alpine_saint Posted 26 February, 2012 Share Posted 26 February, 2012 When do you lot think we will achieve final closure on the p*ss poor rank bloody awful management of SFC in the years 2004-2009 ? Getting promoted this year, or getting promoted this year and staying up next year, to prove its not just a flash-in-the-pan and the club is on a sustainable track ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 26 February, 2012 Share Posted 26 February, 2012 I thought we already had since we got out of L1 and things are going good for the club maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 26 February, 2012 Share Posted 26 February, 2012 I got closure about 2.5 years ago personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 26 February, 2012 Share Posted 26 February, 2012 Look forward, not back. The future is bright, the future is red and white. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Posted 26 February, 2012 Share Posted 26 February, 2012 As far as I'm concerned, that's already ancient history. I can't say that I've really thought about it in those terms, but since you ask the question then I'd say last season did it for me. We got back on the up, built the foundations of a really good squad, and had a great season ending in success. Promotion to the Premiership isn't the sole mark of success (given that if/when we get there, the best we can hope for is comfortable mid-table mediocrity) - what better example of the club being on a sustainable track do you want than the new academy/training facilities in Marchwood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 26 February, 2012 Share Posted 26 February, 2012 From when we dragged ourselves out of the relegation zone last season and began our rapid ascent up the Football League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 26 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 26 February, 2012 I got closure about 2.5 years ago personally. I'm very pleased for you. In my opinion, our standing in English football is not back where it was yet. I personally dont care for the mercenary and business mentality of the Premier League, but sadly it still represents the elite of English football. We were one of the founder members, and were a stable yet disruptive member of the top level for over a quarter of a century. It rankles that we lost that, so although the football is making us smile again and the club looks forward without all the egos of the recent past, for me the damage has not yet been made good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 It really does feel like a completely different club that I support compared to those days. So much to look forward to.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red and White Army Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I'll get closure when I read a non-negative post from alpine_saint, or a positive post without a single caveat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 For me, we're not quite there yet, but we are heading in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I got closure the minute that we were taken over by Markus Liebherr. At that moment, not only had we ridded ourselves of the likes of Lowe, Wilde and Askham, who as a bonus lost all their share investment, but our future was secured. I'll even go as far as to say that I enjoyed my football more in the third division than that played in the last couple of years before administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sold To The Man @ The Bar Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I got closure the minute that we were taken over by Markus Liebherr. At that moment, not only had we ridded ourselves of the likes of Lowe, Wilde and Askham, who as a bonus lost all their share investment, but our future was secured. I'll even go as far as to say that I enjoyed my football more in the third division than that played in the last couple of years before administration. + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I'll get closure when I read a non-negative post from alpine_saint, or a positive post without a single caveat. Don't hold your breath! For my part closure was at the end of last season when we were promoted and I then knew that NC et al meant what they said. Together, going forward as one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I don't really need closure. There were some bad times in those years (not all bad though 2003 for example) but that's part and parcel of being a football fan almost every football club goes through cycles of good and bad. You need the low(e) points to appreciate the good times I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 ,,the Premier League, but sadly it still represents the elite of English football. We were one of the founder members....QUOTE] To say we are a founding memebr of the premier league is over stating our case. We happened to be in the top flight when it changed from Div 1 to the Premiership, no big deal. Our record is one of a decent second flight team, but I am sure we can get up and mix it with the big boys once again. As for closure, **** that; onwards and upwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I got closure the minute that we were taken over by Markus Liebherr. At that moment, not only had we ridded ourselves of the likes of Lowe, Wilde and Askham, who as a bonus lost all their share investment, but our future was secured. I'll even go as far as to say that I enjoyed my football more in the third division than that played in the last couple of years before administration. Very well put - I have enjoyed the post-takeover years more that any since the eighties, for me (in my fifties now) we've come almost a full circle from third division to first/PL and back down again...and the future looks in good hands for the next stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Bald_Si Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 We got bought - and all our debt cleared. Can't really cut the chord too much more than that can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pressingon Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I'll get closure when I read a non-negative post from alpine_saint, or a positive post without a single caveat. You'll have a long wait, his glass is always half empty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junction 9 Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Closure? Closure? Is this a serious thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I got closure the minute that we were taken over by Markus Liebherr. At that moment, not only had we ridded ourselves of the likes of Lowe, Wilde and Askham, who as a bonus lost all their share investment, but our future was secured. I'll even go as far as to say that I enjoyed my football more in the third division than that played in the last couple of years before administration. About sums it up for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I'm very pleased for you. In my opinion, our standing in English football is not back where it was yet. I personally dont care for the mercenary and business mentality of the Premier League, but sadly it still represents the elite of English football. We were one of the founder members, and were a stable yet disruptive member of the top level for over a quarter of a century. It rankles that we lost that, so although the football is making us smile again and the club looks forward without all the egos of the recent past, for me the damage has not yet been made good. Thing is Alps we lost that in part (notice 'in part') because we refused as a club to go into debt to fund a squad better than the one our revenue could support. Yes there were issues with managers and bloated squads, but even during the success of 2002-2003, this was not achieved through spending money we did not have. There were frequent calls for 'investment' without any clue of where thsi should come from, woudl it be gifts of cash, equity changes, leveraged loans etc. ... and whilst we were not doing it, others were. Those that did not yo yo'ed... I do think that our reluctance to folow suit cost was always going to catch up with us eventually... So that changes the question somewhat in my eyes,, if we do go up, what will our expectations be? Will we once again be demanding NC spends fortunes to buy us that stability or even success, or will we be prepared to stay self sustainable and have the patience for the the academy to bare fruit, even if that emans yoyoing for a few seasons? There are plenty now laughing at pompety, calling them cheats etc, but all they did was spend money they did not earn to try and stay up - not too disimilar to what many fans were expecting the last time we were in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Maybe Alps should see, from this thread, that he may be the only one harbouring an enduring problem. Its almost as though he is saying Saints would definitely have stayed in the Prem for the last 6 years. if it wasn't for certain people or events. Nothing is remotely that certain. The last few seasons have been ups and downs (albeit it pretty much the other way round) - every club outside the "big few" will have those. Look at Birmingham, Leeds, West Ham, Middlesborough etc. We need to look forward, not back, and exchange endemic pessimism for optimism. I suggest most of us have already done this. Try this for size: "stress fills the gap between expectation and reality". If a supporter cannot achieve their own version of closure and move on (which is a form of expectation adjustment), then they'll continue to experience some sort of stress (for which read disappointment or other negative feelings) until.......when? We are European Champions? Should it be taken that those of us that have come to terms with the events of the last 6 years, and have moved on, are in a "better place"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Closure came at the JPT final when SFC rose from the ashes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Maybe Alps should see, from this thread, that he may be the only one harbouring an enduring problem. Its almost as though he is saying Saints would definitely have stayed in the Prem for the last 6 years. if it wasn't for certain people or events. Nothing is remotely that certain. The last few seasons have been ups and downs (albeit it pretty much the other way round) - every club outside the "big few" will have those. Look at Birmingham, Leeds, West Ham, Middlesborough etc. We need to look forward, not back, and exchange endemic pessimism for optimism. I suggest most of us have already done this. Try this for size: "stress fills the gap between expectation and reality". If a supporter cannot achieve their own version of closure and move on (which is a form of expectation adjustment), then they'll continue to experience some sort of stress (for which read disappointment or other negative feelings) until.......when? We are European Champions? Should it be taken that those of us that have come to terms with the events of the last 6 years, and have moved on, are in a "better place"? This is a pretty interesting post. Might explain a few things. Its given me something to think about. I just think its hard for me to put the past of utter incomptence, complacency and arrogance behind me until the damage it caused has been repaired. (EDIT: I went through the on-line papers this morning and struggled to find a decent report of Saints beating Watford anywhere, whereas all the PL games were covered) I do however dispute the argument that we might have got relegated anyway. We had survived the change in football and stayed at the top for 27 years, there was no reason we couldnt adapt further and maintained our position. We were relegated because of a sequence of screw-ups in appointing a decent manager, and everything else followed on from it. Yes, it might have been a house of cards, but its collapse was self-inflicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Glad you found my post interesting, Alps. With regard to our assumed enduring survival in the PL.........What about the large debt caused by us building St Mary's? I, for one, felt that was a significant millstone round our necks. It was, after all, the existance of this loan that broke the financial camel's back (although other factors clearly added to the mix). Many clubs have found the burden of funding a new stadium, as well as maintaining a stream of funds for players etc, too much to manage together. I am not sure we would have been any different in the longer term. ie I think we'd have struggled on the pitch at some stage....and we all know what happens to PL clubs that struggle on the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I am still bitter and twisted about our relegation. Now with teams like Norwich, Swansea coming up and playing pretty decent football, I could have taken relegation, but WBA, Norwich and Palace were dog turd awful sides. It still grates when the old stat that only WBA have been bottom Xmas and stayed up, Bryan Robson the only man that kept a side up from that position GRRRR. They didn't stay up, we handed it to them on a solid silver bloody plate. I will never get closure for that god awful season, to see 27 years of fighting and punching above our weight chucked away with a load of lily livered gutless performances, with a Manager who couldn't give a toss and a chairman who thought he was jesus, was gut wrenching. Dont get me wrong the last 2 seasons have been great, but closure club wise, will come for me when the final whistle goes on the day we're back in the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 27 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I am still bitter and twisted about our relegation. Now with teams like Norwich, Swansea coming up and playing pretty decent football, I could have taken relegation, but WBA, Norwich and Palace were dog turd awful sides. It still grates when the old stat that only WBA have been bottom Xmas and stayed up, Bryan Robson the only man that kept a side up from that position GRRRR. They didn't stay up, we handed it to them on a solid silver bloody plate. I will never get closure for that god awful season, to see 27 years of fighting and punching above our weight chucked away with a load of lily livered gutless performances, with a Manager who couldn't give a toss and a chairman who thought he was jesus, was gut wrenching. Dont get me wrong the last 2 seasons have been great, but closure club wise, will come for me when the final whistle goes on the day we're back in the Premiership. See, now I think along these lines, I have to say (therefore I hope you arent being sarcastic). Only I must be worse than even you, because when I try to answer my own OP, I actually think we need to survive in the PL at the end of our first season up for me to really achieve closure, because then we really will be back where we were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eastleighhalo Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Closure came at the JPT final when SFC rose from the ashes This.. with " the saints are coming " blaring out all over Wembley stadium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonsaint1604 Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I'm very pleased for you. In my opinion, our standing in English football is not back where it was yet. I personally dont care for the mercenary and business mentality of the Premier League, but sadly it still represents the elite of English football. We were one of the founder members, and were a stable yet disruptive member of the top level for over a quarter of a century. It rankles that we lost that, so although the football is making us smile again and the club looks forward without all the egos of the recent past, for me the damage has not yet been made good. The ups and downs are what make it special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colehillsaint Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 The ups and downs are what make it special. So true. My 15 year old son has been coming to every home game since the prem relegation season. He witnessed one disappointment after another for years, but has earn't the right to really enjoy the last few seasons. He just loves going now. Goes on about it relentlessly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie saint Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I've read the thread, and think I'm probably not one of those who really needs 'closure'. It was hard losing the 27 years continuous top-flight thing (which, as a thing in itself will obviously never be mended), and disappointing not to have been promoted after that... and the season leading up to administration was pretty stressful/numbing. But it's all been good since then. Not sure I even really blame many of the usual suspects - they were mainly doing their best in the circumstances in which they found themselves, and some of them set in place strategies (stadium, academy, etc) which still seem to be bearing fruit. One thing which may have helped: if they could have made anything stick to Redknapp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabrone Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I got closure the day we were taken over but from a club perspective I guess it's when we get back to where we were before L**e screwed it all up, lower-mid table obscurity in the prem. Not that I'm in any way bothered about being back in the prem, I think this league is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Having thought obsessively about Rupert Lowe for year after year this thread made me wonder when I gave him a thought last. That was a long time ago now, which gives me the idea that I have moved on. I don't think that "closure" is a collective experience but an individual one, which is based on how much blind belief we have in those considering themselves as our superiors. For me, being a naturally suspicious soul, who will question the motivation or our "elders and betters" at every turn, it took a while beyond the takeover. For Alps it clearly will take longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bensfcno1 Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Look forward, not back. The future is bright, the future is red and white. Hello NA! made me laugh when he said that in his interview I saw the other day. But I agree that closure is definately in prgress already, one final part will hopfully come on 7th April. Although we were minutes away from even better at Fratton Park! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 For me personally, my closure was when Wilde, Crouch, Lowe and everybody else associated with our dysfunctional boardroom and leadership during the dark times, left the building and Markus and Nicola stepped in and began to build. I'm a generally positive guy so when the "stressor" ie our incompetant board memebrs, were removed then it was clean slate time for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Closure.... really - why do we need closure? It is a football club, it will have it's ups and downs - the day that it dies will be the day that I start thinking about closure. Perhaps this thread will be more suited to those not so very far away down the M27 soon - but it is not for us. We are on the up - but we have no devine right to top flight football. Many very good clubs have been where we have so there is no need to try to wipe it from the memory banks - if anything the bad times can be used positively to spur further growth and success. Saying that we need closure is almost assuming that once we get into the premiership we will remain there for the end of time and all our troubles are over. Not going to happen - there will always be good times and bad times - it's what being a football supporter is all about. Life is good at the moment, but we will get relegated again, we will get beaten by Pompey again, we will lose in the cup final again - thats just the way it is, thats football. I really don't think that closure comes into it at all - the bad times just make you appreciate the club more during the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Closure technically can be achieved when we achieve promotion back to the Premier League, and get rid of Forecast! In my mind, when we hit rock bottom in League One, clawing our -10 points back, I knew after that we'd see nothing but positives. I was right - we've had sensible investment, the signing of decent players and something to cheer about every season since, amd will hopefully continue to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Closure achived for me a while back, it's now time to look forward. We're now a different club, only going in one way. Ambitions owners, players, management and fans. One of the most exciting clubs around at the mo IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 The last two years have been so cheering and the prospects for the next two years are so full of hope that closure has been achieved in one way. But what is closure? I will never forget the misery and bitterness of seeing a broken club with everyone at war with each other and relegations following each other with us powerless to do anything about it. Those memories are there but I'm cheerful again, so I'm not sure whether I've had closure or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzhugh Fella Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Sometimes you have to experience the bad to fully appreciate the good. And every side has its bad days - the 20s 70s 80s and to an extent the 90s were vintage decades for us whereas the 30s and 50s were mediocre ones. Then came the noughties which started well with a new stadium but went rapidly down hill after the FA Cup Final. Perhaps as fans we had become complacent, most of us had only ever known top flight football. Relegation to the 3rd Div (old money I know) shook us to the rafters as did the threat of liquidation. Following any football club these days is a roller coaster soap opera and I have a feeling there are plenty of ups and downs coming our way over the next 10 years. I guess it is about trying to enjoy the ride but you try telling that to the fishy blue mob down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I havn'r read this thread at all because it's bloody stupid. I'm over it already and looking forward to a great future. The recent past has been awesome!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Closure...what a horrible Yank word that is, in my day it meant a fence or a fenced off area in the Forest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Our woes started in the Spring of 2004 when we failed to appoint Hoddle. If we get back to the premier league and back to stability we will be back to where we would always have been had Hoddle been appointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Personally I never needed "closure". I'm not even sure what it means. I didn't like getting relegated from the PL. I didn't like struggling and then getting relegated from the Championship. But, we were in League 1 for 2 years and I'll be damned if I look back on those times as anything but a really good time. I went o more games per season than I'd been to before; I went to grounds I'd not been to; I mixed with some proper, real fans of decent clubs; and we won a cup and a promotion in two years. If you can't find fun in supporting that then there's something wrong. The Premier League is where its all that, no doubting that, and the objective is to get back there as soon as possible. But I'll never try to erase or diminish our achievement so far in falling from grace, and then rebuilding ourselves. And the fact its been such an enjoyable ride makes our slip from the top a little easier to stomach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints Fan Dan Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 This is probably the most fun I've had supporting the Saints but full closure for me will be promotion and achieving what we couldn't in the 06/07 season, the one season I'm still really bitter over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Destroy pompey at SMS and any lingering demons will be exorcised for me but I've had more fun these last 3 seasons than anytime since the 80s and I'm one happy bunny, plus I don't give a fu ck about being in the EPL, although my nipper is desperate for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsland Red Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I got closure the minute that we were taken over by Markus Liebherr. At that moment, not only had we ridded ourselves of the likes of Lowe, Wilde and Askham, who as a bonus lost all their share investment, but our future was secured. I'll even go as far as to say that I enjoyed my football more in the third division than that played in the last couple of years before administration. This. Brilliant last two and a half seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 I got closure the minute that we were taken over by Markus Liebherr. At that moment, not only had we ridded ourselves of the likes of Lowe, Wilde and Askham, who as a bonus lost all their share investment, but our future was secured. I'll even go as far as to say that I enjoyed my football more in the third division than that played in the last couple of years before administration. This is EXACTLY how I feel about it. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenilworthy Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 Complete closure will come for me when I see Southampton back in its rightful place on the opening BBC weather map instead of Portsmouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Under Weststand Posted 27 February, 2012 Share Posted 27 February, 2012 If your looking for closure on anything in football, then I think you will always be searching for something you'll never going to find in this game! Football brings massive highs & the lowest of lows, we are on a high at the moment. From the depths of administration & relegation to the third tier of football. To the highs of Wembley, even though only the JPT, promotion last season, and the potential of promotion this year. For every closure you find, I'm sure the next low will be hiding around the corner just waiting to bite us on the A**e. Its living through the low's that make the good days so special. The only thing that needs addressing for me through that sorry period, is in April when hopefully we smash a bag-full of goals past the skates & potential put a massive nail in their relegation coffin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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