Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 And if you learn to treat people with a bit of respect, you might actually get a friend. I always dreamt of having a internet forum board friend. Then i will know i've made it in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 (edited) And we've descended into personal abuse again. That's what happens when you ruffle the feathers of our liberal peacocks Andy. They get all sarcastic and condesending, unable to accept facts and the views other than their own. At least they're popular on the internet. Edited 22 February, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 That's what happens when you ruffle the feathers of our liberal peacocks Andy. They get all sarcastic and condesending, unable to accept facts and the views other than their own. At least they're popular on the internet. I was more referring to you. May I just compliment you on your 'single 19 year old virgin' jibe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I always dreamt of having a internet forum board friend. Then i will know i've made it in life. I was actually referring to a real life friend. Probably faulty deductive reasoning on my part, but if you're spending vast amounts of time shouting people down on issues that you have no clear conviction on, then I think it's reasonable to assume that no-one is inviting you around their house for tea and buns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I was more referring to you. May I just compliment you on your 'single 19 year old virgin' jibe. I would say that is a statement of fact rather than a personal insult, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I would say that is a statement of fact rather than a personal insult, no? I'm a bit more successful than you imagine, I'm afraid so not fact. But please, continue with the playground insults. They add to your arguments. This thread is ruined now. It was a good one at the beginning as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I'm a bit more successful than you imagine, I'm afraid so not fact. But please, continue with the playground insults. They add to your arguments. This thread is ruined now. It was a good one at the beginning as well. Worry not, Andy. I'm thinking of starting a new thread : "How to win friends and influence people". Can't happen without Turkish's input, naturally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I was actually referring to a real life friend. Probably faulty deductive reasoning on my part, but if you're spending vast amounts of time shouting people down on issues that you have no clear conviction on, then I think it's reasonable to assume that no-one is inviting you around their house for tea and buns. ahh sorry, didn't realise the internet mong boards were reflective of our real life popularity. *orders 2,000 copies of "the internet is serious business" t-shirts for the TSW spring sale* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Worry not, Andy. I'm thinking of starting a new thread : "How to win friends and influence people". Can't happen without Turkish's input, naturally Do it, is this for internet popularity or real life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 ahh sorry, didn't realise the internet mong boards were reflective of our real life popularity. And yet your real-life popularity is seemingly making no demands on your time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I'm a bit more successful than you imagine, I'm afraid so not fact. But please, continue with the playground insults. They add to your arguments. This thread is ruined now. It was a good one at the beginning as well. I'm sure you are. Do you invite your girlfriends for Question Time evenings where you get in horlicks and cookies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 This part I can whole heartedly agree with ! I was raised as a christian, I was in the church choir from 8 till 12, baptized, confirmed, all that, but do I believe ? Hell no. In the early days when lightning flashed and thunder struck people believed the gods were angry. Up until the 15th 16th century people believed if you kept sailing west you would drop off the edge of the ' flat ' world. Nowadays we are a bit more educated and we understand what thunder is and we know that the earth is a globe. Yet we still persist in believing in ridiculous religions which have one common factor . . . where is their god ? Why are they always invisible / historical. I believe that Jesus existed, but I do not believe he was the son of god. I think of him as the Paul Daniels of zero ad where people saw his tricks as miracles, they were easily fooled in those days, and yet to this day people still believe him to be the son of a god that we have never seen ? In Islam, do these numbnuts really believe that in martydom there are 20 odd virgins waiting for them ? I mean come on, thats playground stuff ! Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and I respect that, but personally, I can get through life quite happily as an athiest thank you and don't want to be labelled the christian that I am not ! ( all my own views and no offence meant to anyone ! ) Well, you haven't offended me (surprised?) Good, on-topic post from the heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 This part I can whole heartedly agree with ! I was raised as a christian, I was in the church choir from 8 till 12, baptized, confirmed, all that, but do I believe ? Hell no. In the early days when lightning flashed and thunder struck people believed the gods were angry. Up until the 15th 16th century people believed if you kept sailing west you would drop off the edge of the ' flat ' world. Nowadays we are a bit more educated and we understand what thunder is and we know that the earth is a globe. Yet we still persist in believing in ridiculous religions which have one common factor . . . where is their god ? Why are they always invisible / historical. I believe that Jesus existed, but I do not believe he was the son of god. I think of him as the Paul Daniels of zero ad where people saw his tricks as miracles, they were easily fooled in those days, and yet to this day people still believe him to be the son of a god that we have never seen ? In Islam, do these numbnuts really believe that in martydom there are 20 odd virgins waiting for them ? I mean come on, thats playground stuff ! Everyone is entitled to their beliefs and I respect that, but personally, I can get through life quite happily as an athiest thank you and don't want to be labelled the christian that I am not ! ( all my own views and no offence meant to anyone ! ) Well I think we've found the line of the thread. I think of [Jesus] as the Paul Daniels of zero AD. Classic. Thank you s**** fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 If Jesus existed, I had him pegged as a kind of Mahatma Gandhi figure in a society that was unable to comprehend the likes of Mahatma Gandhi. However, Paul Daniels also works ( Mary McGeedalene?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 This thread is ruined now. It was a good one at the beginning as well. It can continue, it just needs you to ignore those who you think are trying to ruin it. FWIW - I don't consider our country to *be* any particular religion. There will be a majority of people who follow a specific religion and obviously the Royal family do influence things, but I'm an Atheist, and know people with all manner of beliefs, all of whom are British citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 If Jesus existed, I had him pegged as a kind of Mahatma Gandhi figure in a society that was unable to comprehend the likes of Mahatma Gandhi. However, Paul Daniels also works ( Mary McGeedalene?) Why of course - the lovely Debbie McGee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 However, Paul Daniels also works ( Mary McGeedalene?) So Jesus had three sons, two of whom are a bit dodgy too?! (look up Gary and Paul Junior - defrauding the NHS and drugs charges respectively!) And Martin Daniels' showbusiness act is pretty criminal too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Defrauding the NHS is wrong, obviously. However, it could be argued that selling weed in Wigan is a vital public service, quite strongly if you've ever been there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special K Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 "Dormant Christian" sounds quite positive. I would use the more negative term "vestigial". What you describe is people using the church, or Church, when it suits their need or purpose - like a cultural tradition, or a social club. Church-going, in that sense, served an important social function in the past. I didn't get married in a church because I don't believe in, or hold to, the words the priest or minister says. I don't want to be a hypocrite. Likewise, I didn't get my children baptised because I don't believe in those sacraments anymore. Again, don't want to be a hypocrite and say or promise things I don't believe in. The only time I'm in churches these days, sadly, is to attend funerals for family and friends. Many people who participate in these "religious" events don't believe in them. They do it for social reasons. They are "religious" in the most mundane and debased way. They are certainly not Christians. Paying lip-service to a tradition because it's convenient or makes you feel nice and sentimental for a few minutes does not translate into Christian belief or a true religious attitude. Is there not a place for a (dare i say it) "softer" belief system where participation in the social side of religous services, as you say, is an equally valid form of religous observation? Strict adherence to a prescribed faith may not suit everyone, and instead of trying to find a faith that does suit the individual, surely the freedom to adopt a more personal faith that is based upon a set of values and tenets is no less genuine, even if its outward manifestation is through, for instance, church gatherings and events. After all we are no longer subject to the fear of imposed beliefs and are free to choose our own direction. If we can find that this suits our choices, then i wouldn't want to see it described as any less authentic than customary religous observations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 (edited) It can continue, it just needs you to ignore those who you think are trying to ruin it. FWIW - I don't consider our country to *be* any particular religion. There will be a majority of people who follow a specific religion and obviously the Royal family do influence things, but I'm an Atheist, and know people with all manner of beliefs, all of whom are British citizens. i agree, there are a few people on this forum who are unable to engage in discussion without attempting to belittle the people that dont agree to their view point and hold them in the same high esteem they hold themselves in. Their constant arrogance, stubbornness and narcissism are the reason many threads have been ruined and turned into more of a baiting contest between posters, yet the mods continue to allow them to antaogise as their attitude is dressed up in a veil of liberalism. Edited 22 February, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Where did you get the idea that Hitler was a 'pious man'?! Hitler was clearly Hitler - a horror story beyond description. I was talking about the acquiescence and ultimately collaboration of the Catholic Church (via the Concordat and later pronouncements) and how that hardly made such a great basis for claiming that there's any kind of intimate connection between church and morality. I'd go further and say that the Church's behaviour indicates a deep-seated moral bankruptcy. A few Catholic priests in Germany protested, as well as a few more from other Christian sects, such as (famously) Martin Niemoller, who actually began as something of an anti-semite. But he was ultimately responsible for one of the most telling quotations about the Holocaust: First they came for the communists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me. I think to say that the Church collaborated is abursdly strong. They were fighting for their existance and probably less hostile to Hitler because they feared Communism more. You should also not shun the role of Christians around Europe who offered sanctuary to persecuted Jews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Sergei, I have noticed your participation in religious threads before, sir. A couple of things jump out. First, it appears that you are very quick to play the wounded Christian, a common conceit amongst believers today, so much so that its often this sense of being marginalised that starts the debate in the first place. Second, I don't see a lot of give and take in the debate. I can understand why you might take umbrage to the connection of Christian institutions with the villains of history, but frankly, that's not your fight to fight. If what you say is true, and that the Catholic Church was fighting for its existence, then they put their institution above the message, and in my view, deserve the criticism they get for it. Fair enough, defend them where they need defending, but defending everything and/or attributing comments to "spiteful atheists" isn't a great way to win support for your arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 (edited) I think to say that the Church collaborated is abursdly strong. They were fighting for their existance and probably less hostile to Hitler because they feared Communism more. You should also not shun the role of Christians around Europe who offered sanctuary to persecuted Jews. One quite appalling fact to consider, Sergei. That notorious Concordat with Hitler has never been withdrawn. Furthermore, the Vatican was not 'fighting for existence'. Not even Hitler could topple the Catholic Church. THe Vatican collaborated for advantage and because of its barely latent anti-semitisim. I also thought that by drawing attention to a particularly well known Lutheran pastor that I was not 'shunning' those Christians who offered sanctuary - that's an odd conclusion to draw. Edited 22 February, 2012 by Verbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 i agree, there are a few people on this forum who are unable to engage in discussion without attempting to belittle the people that dont agree to their view point and hold them in the same high esteem they hold themselves in. Their constant arrogance, stubbornness and narcissism are the reason many threads have been ruined and turned into more of a baiting contest between posters, yet the mods continue to allow them to antaogise as their attitude is dressed up in a veil of liberalism. There are half-a-dozen people on this forum who talk too much. They want to dominate every thread and don't really listen to what others are saying. They think insult and sarcasm is a debating tool. They can be so tiresome, don't you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 There are half-a-dozen people on this forum who talk too much. They want to dominate every thread and don't really listen to what others are saying. They think insult and sarcasm is a debating tool. They can be so tiresome, don't you think? I absolutely agree. They tend to be knowitalls with opinions on everything, regardless of this is first hand experience they are always right and quick to belittle anyone who disagrees with them, whilst dressing it up in a veil of liberalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilton Saint Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I absolutely agree. They tend to be knowitalls with opinions on everything, regardless of this is first hand experience they are always right and quick to belittle anyone who disagrees with them, whilst dressing it up in a veil of liberalism. Yeah, don't you hate those liberals: all that toleration of different ideas, faiths and beliefs - that concern for the other guy. Must be wimps, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Yeah, don't you hate those liberals: all that toleration of different ideas, faiths and beliefs - that concern for the other guy. Must be wimps, eh? nah mate, not at all. It's the ones that cant make up their mind that i hate, preach live and let live on the one had, yet shout down and try and belittle anyone who disagrees with them. The ones with such a massive sense of self importance they are constantly trying to educate the people they percieve as savages because they dont agree with them. Tolerate is the right word for them, that is what they do, tolerate, accept and endure rather than embrace, that much is obvious, why else shout so loudly when questioned on it or come up against anyone who might disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbury Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 My vote is that Turkish is a real intelligent bloke and a also bit of a wide boy. Because of this, he provokes and responds in different ways. I suppose everyone knows that. The thread is interesting despite/because of Turkish's contribution. My view - I want a world which upholds all the 'easy' ethics which most religions adhere to. I'd rather religion was just something you put in facebook. When I read about the crusaders sticking their swords through the bellies of pregnant women I realised that Christianity was sh i t. When I see followers of all religions do the same, I realise that all relisgion is sh i t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Is there not a place for a (dare i say it) "softer" belief system where participation in the social side of religous services, as you say, is an equally valid form of religous observation? Strict adherence to a prescribed faith may not suit everyone, and instead of trying to find a faith that does suit the individual, surely the freedom to adopt a more personal faith that is based upon a set of values and tenets is no less genuine, even if its outward manifestation is through, for instance, church gatherings and events. After all we are no longer subject to the fear of imposed beliefs and are free to choose our own direction. If we can find that this suits our choices, then i wouldn't want to see it described as any less authentic than customary religous observations. Amen brother. Couldn't have put it better myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Prince Charles famously stated that he'd like to be the Defender of all Faiths. I can't help thinking that the answer lies here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 It's worth comparing the UK to other countries where religion is held as a guiding principle of their society. For instance, my brother currently lives and works in Doha, Qatar, which is very much an Islamic country. Even though he is a non-muslim expat, if he were to be caught eating or drinking in public during Ramadan, he could be arrested and fined. If the same could be said of the UK, ie that people could be arrested for working on a sunday or refusing to observe Lent or whatever, then I would agree that would certainly define us as a Christian country. Thankfully, our society is not so backward that religious observances are forced upon the population by law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 (edited) It's worth comparing the UK to other countries where religion is held as a guiding principle of their society. For instance, my brother currently lives and works in Doha, Qatar, which is very much an Islamic country. Even though he is a non-muslim expat, if he were to be caught eating or drinking in public during Ramadan, he could be arrested and fined. If the same could be said of the UK, ie that people could be arrested for working on a sunday or refusing to observe Lent or whatever, then I would agree that would certainly define us as a Christian country. Thankfully, our society is not so backward that religious observances are forced upon the population by law. As you may know, I spent quite a bit of time travelling and working in Northern Ireland. It's not a patch on what you've just described here, but the difference in attitude with regard to religion is quite remarkable amongst both Catholics and Protestants. It's not just the levels of church attendance, which are much higher - but there are frequently protests when a store announces Sunday opening hours. Also, I remember one of the local businesses selling out to Spar on the condition that the new owners would never sell alcohol. To this day, I'm not actually sure what's weirder when you travel through a Protestant village - the outward display of unionism (painted flagstones, etc) or the innumerable religious placards arrayed along the sides of the roads ( Bible verses, etc ). Anyway, my point is that you don't have to go too far to see a religious society - a quick trip over the Irish Sea shows just how secular we've become. Edited 22 February, 2012 by pap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 It's worth comparing the UK to other countries where religion is held as a guiding principle of their society. For instance, my brother currently lives and works in Doha, Qatar, which is very much an Islamic country. Even though he is a non-muslim expat, if he were to be caught eating or drinking in public during Ramadan, he could be arrested and fined. If the same could be said of the UK, ie that people could be arrested for working on a sunday or refusing to observe Lent or whatever, then I would agree that would certainly define us as a Christian country. Thankfully, our society is not so backward that religious observances are forced upon the population by law. Are you suggesting Isalm is a backward religion Bexy?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Are you suggesting Isalm is a backward religion Bexy?? I'm suggesting that basing a country's laws on centuries-old fairy stories does not exactly represent progressive thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I'm suggesting that basing a country's laws on centuries-old fairy stories does not exactly represent progressive thinking. So thankful our society is not so "backward" as wot them Islamics are, yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 So thankful our society is not so "backward" as wot them Islamics are, yes? I'm not going to take your bait Turkish so go and find some other 'mongs' to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I'm not going to take your bait Turkish so go and find some other 'mongs' to troll. No bait, Bexy, you said it. And itS alright, we know you're not racist, you told us a while ago you even talk to the Indian fella down the road sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 No bait, Bexy, you said it. And itS alright, we know you're not racist, you told us a while ago you even talk to the Indian fella down the road sometimes. I knew there was a very good reason I had you on my ignore list. You really are a very sad little man if the only way you can amuse yourself is to wind up 'mongs' on internet message boards. Tell me, how long did you manage to stay away after you spat your dummy out recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Turkish, why do you seem to think that Liberalism is just letting everyone say their opinion and then just not challenging any of it?! Liberals believe that every opinion has the right to be aired, but also challenged... the whole point of liberalism is ALLOWING debate. It celebrates that we are all individuals with different opinions. But it doesn't allow any opinion to sacred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 I knew there was a very good reason I had you on my ignore list. You really are a very sad little man if the only way you can amuse yourself is to wind up 'mongs' on internet message boards. Tell me, how long did you manage to stay away after you spat your dummy out recently? Longer than you after your "f*ck this place" rant. LOLz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Turkish, why do you seem to think that Liberalism is just letting everyone say their opinion and then just not challenging any of it?! Liberals believe that every opinion has the right to be aired, but also challenged... the whole point of liberalism is ALLOWING debate. It celebrates that we are all individuals with different opinions. But it doesn't allow any opinion to sacred. The only sacred opinions you lot hold are your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 The only sacred opinions you lot hold are your own. they do.....they all agree and everyone who does not agree with them are thick and wrong.....live and let live eh...? saying that, is the terrorist dead yet...? you know. the lockerbie bomber...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 they do.....they all agree and everyone who does not agree with them are thick and wrong.....live and let live eh...? saying that, is the terrorist dead yet...? you know. the lockerbie bomber...? Exactly, you've only got to look at how patronising the Lockerbie bomber supporter gets whenever anyone disagrees with him or says something he doesn't agree with. Yet in the next breath spouting about how they love debate and everyones opinion is valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Only 5 more posts before the 300. trousers will be happy. Keep up the good work, lads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 My opinion is not sacred at all. It is one within a pool of opinions, though obviously as it is mine I'll defend it and argue it. Please learn the difference between that and fascism! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 My opinion is not sacred at all. It is one within a pool of opinions, though obviously as it is mine I'll defend it and argue it. Please learn the difference between that and fascism! Where would we be without you Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 So thankful our society is not so "backward" as wot them Islamics are, yes? Christianity and Islam are backwards IMO. Muslim countries are undoubtably more so. It's a bunch of ****ed up fairy-tales anyway. All the people I know who go to church admit it's all b*ll*x when you drill down into what they actually believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Christianity and Islam are backwards IMO. Muslim countries are undoubtably more so. It's a bunch of ****ed up fairy-tales anyway. All the people I know who go to church admit it's all b*ll*x when you drill down into what they actually believe. Go down to your local mosque and say that, see what response you get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Where would we be without you Andy. And you, Turkish And back to religion.... most religions are quite backwards when taken in their literal form, because they were formed in an age of racism, sexism and just general discrimination. They are a product of their time. Thankfully, in this country, we don't take Christianity in its literal form anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 22 February, 2012 Share Posted 22 February, 2012 Go down to your local mosque and say that, see what response you get. Just popped down, they told me to f*ck off because I'm Jewish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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