emerson massey Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 As a few people here have already mentioned, 'Christmas' is a festival that has been adopted by the christian church, and adapted to fit their perception of events. The fesival, and the traditions of gift giving behind it, have been in existence alot longer than the christian faith has existed. In my view, religion and the belief in a higher being that is all seeing/knowing, was developed by humans as a coping mechanism to help them understand things in which they have no comprehension. However, i feel that the need for religion has been eroded by science answering alot of the questions that people attributed to religion. So while Britain is still classed as a christian country, it wont be for much longer. I dont know many people, of any race/creed, who regularly participate in any religios festival for any other reason than tradition or fun! However, there is still room for belief (just not organised religion that states the earth was formed in 7 days and that dinosaurs did not exist!) This is one of my favourite quotes from the great man himself "What I have done is to show that it is possible for the way the universe began to be determined by the laws of science. In that case, it would not be necessary to appeal to God to decide how the universe began. This doesn't prove that there is no God, only that God is not necessary". [stephen W. Hawking, Der Spiegel, 1989] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 (edited) Although he'd have no clue about this, Turkish has stumbled on an important and largely ignored issue. Religion in everyday life is not about belief but about ritual. Christmas trees and easter eggs, co-opted pagan symbols the pair of them, are ritual markers of faith. And it's in the comfort of rituals that people mostly profess their faith, not some existential argument about higher beings. This is where Dawkins gets it horribly wrong: his arguments are all, in the end, about the ways in which scientific method has rendered religious belief in a Deity redundant. No wonder he can't puzzle out why it nonetheless continues to exist. Edited 21 February, 2012 by Verbal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Everyone is aware that christmas is the birth and easter is the death of Jesus Christ I thought easter was the thing about him coming back or whatever. Might be wrong. Bears have their own gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I thought easter was the thing about him coming back or whatever. Might be wrong. Bears have their own gods. What a good Catholic bear you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Speaking as a father myself, I think you'd raise your opinion of your children attending a RC school if you thought it was not in their best interest. I had no problem sending the kids to a RC school, or them being raised in the traditions of their mother. Equally, I had no problem when my eldest daughter asked to be confirmed. I may have been part of the process of bringing my kids into the world, but that doesn't mean that I own their thoughts or beliefs. It isn't for me to decide whether they believe in God or not, which is sort of ironic really, because a lot of religious families are perfectly happy with this concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notnowcato Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I had no problem sending the kids to a RC school, or them being raised in the traditions of their mother. Equally, I had no problem when my eldest daughter asked to be confirmed. I may have been part of the process of bringing my kids into the world, but that doesn't mean that I own their thoughts or beliefs. It isn't for me to decide whether they believe in God or not, which is sort of ironic really, because a lot of religious families are perfectly happy with this concept. The point I was attemping to make, all be it badly, is that although you rightly profess to not owning your childrens thoughts or beliefs you are greenlighting the roman catholic faith to your children by agreeing for them to be educated by these establishments. Not that I think you are doing anything wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2012 The point I was attemping to make, all be it badly, is that although you rightly profess to not owning your childrens thoughts or beliefs you are greenlighting the roman catholic faith to your children by agreeing for them to be educated by these establishments. Not that I think you are doing anything wrong... It certainly wouldn't be the first thing my kids have taken up that I didn't agree with. The 12 year old likes One Direction, ffs - I can't tell you how much it pains me to line Simon Cowell's pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Most people I know still Christen their children, most people I know still get married in a church, most funerals I go to are in a church. In my world we are a christian. This. While I myself am not a religious person (raised Roman Catholic, now agnostic-leaning-towards-atheist) most of our culture is undeniably based around christianity. We are experiencing a cultural shift though, with more people getting married in registry offices etc. and also with more people of different faiths now present in the population. I appreciate the morals that christianity teaches, but just not all the "miracles and our lord above" baggage that comes with it. I'm sure when the results for this census are published it will show a steep drop in religious values held by those under the age of 30 in this country. I barely know anyone my age who would describe themselves as religious (aside from a few devoutly catholic friends, a few muslim friends and a few jewish friends). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I had no problem sending the kids to a RC school, or them being raised in the traditions of their mother. Equally, I had no problem when my eldest daughter asked to be confirmed. I may have been part of the process of bringing my kids into the world, but that doesn't mean that I own their thoughts or beliefs. It isn't for me to decide whether they believe in God or not, which is sort of ironic really, because a lot of religious families are perfectly happy with this concept. Yet you're happy for your wife to be a much stronger influence on their belief system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Interesting point on the Big Questions from Jonathan Bartley, author of "Faith and Politics after Christendom". JB: "This country has never been a Christian country. I don't think it is now. Let's take our definition, controversially, as the values of Jesus Christ. Is this country really endorsing the values of Jesus Christ?" Nicky Campbell: "What would it look like were it to endorse the values of Jesus Christ?" JB: "We might forgive our enemies a little bit more. We might have a more equal society. We might not encourage a capitalist system that makes people compete against each other." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Yet you're happy for your wife to be a much stronger influence on their belief system? I am happy for my kids to experience a broad range of perspectives, which they can take or leave based on the evidence available to them, and crucially, their own decision making process. Now you may be trying to wind me up by suggesting that Ms pap wears the trousers. If you'd like to believe that, knock yourself out. I have to admit, I'd probably have a much stronger opinion if getting involved in religion was a one-shot deal. e.g. once you get involved in it, you're in it forever. However, my own experience tells me that's not the case. I used to believe when I was in primary school. I don't anymore, and I'm sure my broad experience is not unique. Digressing a little, I see my job as a parent as preparing the kids for the world outside, to teach them not to accept things at face value and to have the confidence to assert their own opinion. If that ends up being in conflict with my own views, that's perfectly fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I keep hearing that this isn't a Christian country, Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of December, didnt exist, religion is a load of ****** etc etc yet the fact remains that 4 public holidays in this country are Christian festivals, which you all celebrate in your own way and only do on that day because they are a religious holiday, even though the reasons behind them may have been lost. The birth and death of Jesus, who is the reason christianity exists in the first place. Loads of people get married in Christian church and buried or cremated in a religious ceremonies, regardless of if they believe in god or not. How can this be, when many of you claim not to live in a christian country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I keep hearing that this isn't a Christian country, Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of December, didnt exist, religion is a load of ****** etc etc yet the fact remains that 4 public holidays in this country are Christian festivals, which you all celebrate in your own way and only do on that day because they are a religious holiday, even though the reasons behind them may have been lost. The birth and death of Jesus, who is the reason christianity exists in the first place. Loads of people get married in Christian church and buried or cremated in a religious ceremonies, regardless of if they believe in god or not. How can this be, when many of you claim not to live in a christian country? Well, you're focusing on the rituals instead of the message. Do you really think the country is run according to the teachings of Jesus Christ? And like saintbletch, I would be interested in knowing whether you are a practising Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Would you mind if I asked if you are a Christian? Completely understand if you don't want to answer. I'm not religious, but I do accept that religion rightly or wrongly has shaped the world we live in and Britian is a Christian country. I find all these people that Celebrate Christmas and Easter, go to nativity plays about the birth of Jesus, get married in churches and then claim all religion is ******** and this isn't a Christian country hilarious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ART Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Scotland, Wales and Ireland are definitely Christian countries but England is at a point where one is in doubt. Religious perhaps in that the majority are either Christian, Muslum, Hindu or Jewish. We ought to hold a referendum to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I'm not religious, but I do accept that religion rightly or wrongly has shaped the world we live in and Britian is a Christian country. I find all these people that Celebrate Christmas and Easter, go to nativity plays about the birth of Jesus, get married in churches and then claim all religion is ******** and this isn't a Christian country hilarious though. Yes, but I don't think all of those people are celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ on Christmas day. I think Christmas is largely secular these days for many. And I don't think the amount of people Christened and married in churches shows that we are religious. I was christened, more out of tradition, but it is happening less and less these days... and more and more are opting for non-church marriages as well, but many who aren't religious get married in churches anyway because they like the backdrop because of how it'll look in photos etc That's what is happening in my generation anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Young Turkish persuaded away from atheism by his mother........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I'm not religious, but I do accept that religion rightly or wrongly has shaped the world we live in and Britian is a Christian country. I find all these people that Celebrate Christmas and Easter, go to nativity plays about the birth of Jesus, get married in churches and then claim all religion is ******** and this isn't a Christian country hilarious though. Then you either haven't read or haven't understood a lot of the comments on this thread. The giving of gifts and having a tree, light, decorations etc aren't Christian traditions, they go back a lot longer than that, as does the celebrating with symbols like eggs at Easter time. They've always happened then and for quite sensible reasons that don't even require religion at all. Just because Christianity picked up on them, doesn't mean Christianity owns them. There's no hypocrisy there at all. Even getting married in a church; for many this is the use of a big, splendid building that is at the centre of the community. I'm not religious, but I found a church a brilliant place for a wedding, much nicer than some dull old hall or reception office somewhere. When I was a kid, we went to various community events at the local scout hut, I never did join the scouts or take much of an interest in what they were about either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I keep hearing that this isn't a Christian country, Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of December, didnt exist, religion is a load of ****** etc etc yet the fact remains that 4 public holidays in this country are Christian festivals, which you all celebrate in your own way and only do on that day because they are a religious holiday, even though the reasons behind them may have been lost. The birth and death of Jesus, who is the reason christianity exists in the first place. Loads of people get married in Christian church and buried or cremated in a religious ceremonies, regardless of if they believe in god or not. How can this be, when many of you claim not to live in a christian country? I see the point you are making, and you are correct in that a lot of public policy etc.. is dictated by Christian tradition, such as the naming of public holidays and the use of churches for weddings and funerals. But to use this to claim that we are Christian as a nation is a flawed argument. There are a whole lot of policies that are produced from secular thinking as well. If the govt dictates that I don't work on Christmas and Easter, then so be it. I care little for the origins of these holidays, only that I get them and can enjoy some time off work with my friends and family. I often joke at Easter that getting 4 days off work just because some long-haired Jewish bloke gobbed off at some Roman soldiers 2000 years ago and got himself executed is absolutely fine by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I'm not religious, but I do accept that religion rightly or wrongly has shaped the world we live in and Britian is a Christian country. I find all these people that Celebrate Christmas and Easter, go to nativity plays about the birth of Jesus, get married in churches and then claim all religion is ******** and this isn't a Christian country hilarious though. Well, its an issue with hypocrisy all around. I know people who are genuine believers, in that they truly live their lives according to the teachings of Jesus Christ, to the extent where I've seen them turn paying work down because it is incompatible with their beliefs. I don't agree with them, but they get kudos for at least practising what they preach. You're right to call out people who get married in churches despite not having any religious convictions, and are, as SaintAndy666 points out, only doing it because its a nicer/more traditional setting. Equally though, I find almost as much hypocrisy in people that'll tell you that they are Christian, yet spend all their time doing distinctly un-Christian things. You are 100% right to call out hypocrisy where you see it. It's central to the whole debate. After all, what else is hypocrisy apart from the difference between what people say and what people do? I'd humbly suggest that if you are looking for more "hilarious" moments, you'd probably find more mirth by widening your demographic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I keep hearing that this isn't a Christian country, Jesus wasn't born on the 25th of December, didnt exist, religion is a load of ****** etc etc yet the fact remains that 4 public holidays in this country are Christian festivals, which you all celebrate in your own way and only do on that day because they are a religious holiday, even though the reasons behind them may have been lost. The birth and death of Jesus, who is the reason christianity exists in the first place. Loads of people get married in Christian church and buried or cremated in a religious ceremonies, regardless of if they believe in god or not. How can this be, when many of you claim not to live in a christian country? As others have said, your stubborn refusal to understand other corrective arguments on this thread, or your more likely failure to understand them, is just making this all a bit repetitive. Why don't you spend a little time - you seem to have so much of it - and bother to think about some decent counter-arguments, rather than this incoherent mess. As for measuring the level of Christian-ness of a country by counting the number of public holidays - as banal an argument as I could imagine for quantifying religiosity - it runs up against the obvious counter-example of the US. No Easter holidays, and no Christmas holidays either. And yet you could not imagine a country, in places, with more religious fervour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 As others have said, your stubborn refusal to understand other corrective arguments on this thread, or your more likely failure to understand them, is just making this all a bit repetitive. Why don't you spend a little time - you seem to have so much of it - and bother to think about some decent counter-arguments, rather than this incoherent mess. As for measuring the level of Christian-ness of a country by counting the number of public holidays - as banal an argument as I could imagine for quantifying religiosity - it runs up against the obvious counter-example of the US. No Easter holidays, and no Christmas holidays either. And yet you could not imagine a country, in places, with more religious fervour. As you are incapable, or appear to be, of discussing anything without coming across as patronising and condesending, i will treat your comments with the distain they deserve and suggest you up your medication for your Narcissistic personality disorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Well, its an issue with hypocrisy all around. I know people who are genuine believers, in that they truly live their lives according to the teachings of Jesus Christ, to the extent where I've seen them turn paying work down because it is incompatible with their beliefs. I don't agree with them, but they get kudos for at least practising what they preach. You're right to call out people who get married in churches despite not having any religious convictions, and are, as SaintAndy666 points out, only doing it because its a nicer/more traditional setting. Equally though, I find almost as much hypocrisy in people that'll tell you that they are Christian, yet spend all their time doing distinctly un-Christian things. You are 100% right to call out hypocrisy where you see it. It's central to the whole debate. After all, what else is hypocrisy apart from the difference between what people say and what people do? I'd humbly suggest that if you are looking for more "hilarious" moments, you'd probably find more mirth by widening your demographic. 1,000s of people gett their kids christened every year, yet apparantly we dont live in a christian country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 1,000s of people gett their kids christened every year, yet apparantly we dont live in a christian country. Yeah, and thousands of kids have their Barmitzvahs (sp?) every year. Does that mean we live in Jewish country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Yes, but I don't think all of those people are celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ on Christmas day. I think Christmas is largely secular these days for many. And I don't think the amount of people Christened and married in churches shows that we are religious. I was christened, more out of tradition, but it is happening less and less these days... and more and more are opting for non-church marriages as well, but many who aren't religious get married in churches anyway because they like the backdrop because of how it'll look in photos etc That's what is happening in my generation anyways. Why bother christening people in a church? Save the money and do it in a back garden with a bucket of water. It'd mean exactly the same thing. Why not drive out to a country park and get your pictures taken there if you want a nice backdrop for your wedding photos? Why get cremated in a chapel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Yeah, and thousands of kids have the Barmitzvahs (sp?) every year. Does that mean we live in Jewish country? When is you companies Passover party this year? What are you getting you friends for Ramadam this year Bexy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Then you either haven't read or haven't understood a lot of the comments on this thread. The giving of gifts and having a tree, light, decorations etc aren't Christian traditions, they go back a lot longer than that, as does the celebrating with symbols like eggs at Easter time. They've always happened then and for quite sensible reasons that don't even require religion at all. Just because Christianity picked up on them, doesn't mean Christianity owns them. There's no hypocrisy there at all. Even getting married in a church; for many this is the use of a big, splendid building that is at the centre of the community. I'm not religious, but I found a church a brilliant place for a wedding, much nicer than some dull old hall or reception office somewhere. When I was a kid, we went to various community events at the local scout hut, I never did join the scouts or take much of an interest in what they were about either. Christmas IS the birth of Jesus, it IS a christian fesitival. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 When is you companies Passover party this year? What are you getting you friends for Ramadam this year Bexy? Don't be so pedantic. You posted the fact that thousands of kids get Christened every year is evidence that we are a Christian country. It isn't and you know full well it isn't. I have already agreed with you that many aspects of our modern culture have their traditions in the Christian faith, but do not prove we are a Christian country. Not sure exactly what more you are trying to prove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Britain has more females than males, therefore it is a feminine country. Interestingly, Britain is female by a similar margin to that which supposedly makes it Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 When is you companies Passover party this year? What are you getting you friends for Ramadam this year Bexy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Don't be so pedantic. You posted the fact that thousands of kids get Christened every year is evidence that we are a Christian country. It isn't and you know full well it isn't. I have already agreed with you that many aspects of our modern culture have their traditions in the Christian faith, but do not prove we are a Christian country. Not sure exactly what more you are trying to prove. So we have the traiditions of the christian faith in our modern society, celebrate the birth and death of the Christ. get married, christened and buried in his churchs. Our PM says we are christian nation and our Queen is a christian yet none of this proves we are a christian nation apparantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Why bother christening people in a church? Save the money and do it in a back garden with a bucket of water. It'd mean exactly the same thing. Why not drive out to a country park and get your pictures taken there if you want a nice backdrop for your wedding photos? Why get cremated in a chapel? Because people live the church weddings, not because they are religious, but for the romantic feel of it. A lot of it is just tradition. Also, Christmas's date was set because of a compromise between it and paganism. A lot of our religious stuff comes from that compromise, which I think was Constantines idea? Someone with a bit more knowledge of it all will be able to fill in the gaps. In short, religions have been stealing other religions ideas and dates for ages. Many people celebrating Christmas today let it have nothing to do with Christ... it's just the date to have family over and exchange gifts. Why not another day? Because it evolved out of the traditional religious Christmas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2012 So we have the traiditions of the christian faith in our modern society, celebrate the birth and death of the Christ. get married, christened and buried in his churchs. Our PM says we are christian nation and our Queen is a christian yet none of this proves we are a christian nation apparantly. "Britain is a Christian country!", says non-religious person. Better not let Turkish see this. He hates hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Because people live the church weddings, not because they are religious, but for the romantic feel of it. A lot of it is just tradition. Also, Christmas's date was set because of a compromise between it and paganism. A lot of our religious stuff comes from that compromise, which I think was Constantines idea? Someone with a bit more knowledge of it all will be able to fill in the gaps. In short, religions have been stealing other religions ideas and dates for ages. Many people celebrating Christmas today let it have nothing to do with Christ... it's just the date to have family over and exchange gifts. Why not another day? Because it evolved out of the traditional religious Christmas. If it wasn't for christianity there wouldn't be a nice church to have the dream romantic wedding in. No vicar to give the service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 "Britain is a Christian country!", says non-religious person. Better not let Turkish see this. He hates hypocrisy. Iraq is a islamic country, we're not islamics but we both know this and can freely admit it, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu0x Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 So we have the traiditions of the christian faith in our modern society, celebrate the birth and death of the Christ. get married, christened and buried in his churchs. Our PM says we are christian nation and our Queen is a christian yet none of this proves we are a christian nation apparantly. The number of logical fallacies you've employed (in fact, almost the full set) indicates that you're so entrenched in your opinion, you don't have any interest in actually discussing/debating the issue. So there seems little mileage in continuing the thread, n'est pas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 So we have the traiditions of the christian faith in our modern society, celebrate the birth and death of the Christ. get married, christened and buried in his churchs. Our PM says we are christian nation and our Queen is a christian yet none of this proves we are a christian nation apparantly. For starters, I couldn't give a toss what Dave Cameron says about our religious heritage. And as for the Queen - she made an oath at her coronation to 'uphold God's law' but has since given royal assent to many laws which go against the laws of God as dictated in the Old Testament, therefore she is nothing but a hypocrite as well. The history of such things as Xmas and Easter holidays, church weddings, christenings etc... are born out of Christian traditions, but have now become so deeply ingrained in our society that we no longer focus on the religious aspect of them. Ask any kid if he is looking forward to celebrating the resurrection of Christ this Easter and all you will get is a blank look - all they will give a toss about is how many chocolate eggs they are going to get. If it satisfies you, I will admit that we are a Christian country only in the sense that our ancestors had their pagan traditions beaten out of them by the Romans and replaced with slightly different traditions that can be associated with Jesus in some way, under the threat of persecution or death if they didn't comply, just like the rest of Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 (edited) The number of logical fallacies you've employed (in fact, almost the full set) indicates that you're so entrenched in your opinion, you don't have any interest in actually discussing/debating the issue. So there seems little mileage in continuing the thread, n'est pas? What evidence is there that we ARE NOT a christian nation? When is our time off work this year for Ramadam? Edited 21 February, 2012 by Turkish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 For starters, I couldn't give a toss what Dave Cameron says about our religious heritage. And as for the Queen - she made an oath at her coronation to 'uphold God's law' but has since given royal assent to many laws which go against the laws of God as dictated in the Old Testament, therefore she is nothing but a hypocrite as well. The history of such things as Xmas and Easter holidays, church weddings, christenings etc... are born out of Christian traditions, but have now become so deeply ingrained in our society that we no longer focus on the religious aspect of them. Ask any kid if he is looking forward to celebrating the resurrection of Christ this Easter and all you will get is a blank look - all they will give a toss about is how many chocolate eggs they are going to get. If it satisfies you, I will admit that we are a Christian country only in the sense that our ancestors had their pagan traditions beaten out of them by the Romans and replaced with slightly different traditions that can be associated with Jesus in some way, under the threat of persecution or death if they didn't comply, just like the rest of Europe. Ahh the coronation, i'm glad you've mentioned that. So the Queen, in her role as ruler of Britain upholds gods law, upholding the law of god over the country she rules, yes? Is this more evidence that we aren't a christian nation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 god, we have some right dullards on here... of course we are (if anything) a christian country.....I am not christian but I recognise that many of the values we all find acceptable to live by are in fact christian. I celebrate XMAS and have a knees up..but lets not hide the fact we all jump on the back of what has become a christian holiday....same goes for easter etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Ahh the coronation, i'm glad you've mentioned that. So the Queen, in her role as ruler of Britain upholds gods law, upholding the law of god over the country she rules, yes? Is this more evidence that we aren't a christian nation? Since when was God limited to just Christianity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Since when was God limited to just Christianity? when we have a CofE/christian slant on most things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 god, we have some right dullards on here... of course we are (if anything) a christian country.....I am not christian but I recognise that many of the values we all find acceptable to live by are in fact christian. I celebrate XMAS and have a knees up..but lets not hide the fact we all jump on the back of what has become a christian holiday....same goes for easter etc I take it you haven't read St Andys and Bexys post, we aren't a christian nation because although we celebrate christian festivals. our ruler is a christian, the whole basis our of culture and history being shaped by christianity and use christian churchs to the key moments in our lives we only do it because it's nice to do and something about making great photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 February, 2012 What evidence is there that we ARE NOT a christian nation? When is our time off work this year for Ramadam? Church attendances, for a start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Since when was God limited to just Christianity? What relgion is the Queen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Church attendances, for a start. the numbers of people that go to church do not define a nation...the values we live by (not sharia law etc) and what we find acceptable in day to day society was shaped by the christian faith...not by Judaism, hinduism, islam (unfortunately for you I'm guessing) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 the numbers of people that go to church do not define a nation...the values we live by (not sharia law etc) and what we find acceptable in day to day society was shaped by the christian faith...not by Judaism, hinduism, islam (unfortunately for you I'm guessing) No, and neither do the archaic traditions that were imposed on us many centuries ago. It's all very well public officials maintaining these quaint rituals and the Queen using the concept of God as some kind of divine mandate for her to rule over us, but ultimately it is all meaningless if less than half of the population self-identify themselves as being Christian. The Christian values you refer to (love thy neighbour etc...) do not require submission to a religious sect in order to dictate our actions. Most of it is just plain common sense thinking that people would undoubtedly arrive at if the whole concept of God and religion had never been dreamt up in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I take it you haven't read St Andys and Bexys post, we aren't a christian nation because although we celebrate christian festivals. our ruler is a christian, the whole basis our of culture and history being shaped by christianity and use christian churchs to the key moments in our lives we only do it because it's nice to do and something about making great photos. History is one thing, and of course our History is a Christian one, but today most people simply aren't that Christian. They don't read the Bible, abide by what the Bible says and they don't attend church or even see God as a large part of their life. To be Christian is to try to emulate and be like Christ. No way do we in our country try to that. And I object to the idea of 'Christian values' as Christianity does not have a monopoly on certain values. There are just values, and some Modern Christians decide to adopt these values as their own. For sure though, we don't follow Christianity that closely in this country. For example, we don't stone adulterers... even if our past was Christian, it doesn't really matter to most people in their everyday lives anymore. I'm not saying as a whole, we are an atheist country, we are just very apathetic to it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 History is one thing, and of course our History is a Christian one, but today most people simply aren't that Christian. They don't read the Bible, abide by what the Bible says and they don't attend church or even see God as a large part of their life. To be Christian is to try to emulate and be like Christ. No way do we in our country try to that. And I object to the idea of 'Christian values' as Christianity does not have a monopoly on certain values. There are just values, and some of those Modern Christians decide to adopt.as their own. For sure though, we don't follow Christianity that closely in this country. For example, we don't stone adulterers... even if our past was Christian, it doesn't really matter to most people in their everyday lives anymore. I'm not saying as a whole, we are an atheist country, we are just very apathetic to it all. Why do witnesses and defendants in court have to swear on the bible to tell the truth if we are not a christian nation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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