Jonnyboy Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 In 1946 the BMA were oppossed to the setting up of the NHS, so Doctors aren't always the best people to decide how a country should run its health service. Funny how Cameron went on about giving the power to nurses and doctors to run the NHS, yet they don't want it. So now he won't listen to him. Surely if you are given extra responsibilities at work you shoud get a pay rise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Funny how Cameron went on about giving the power to nurses and doctors to run the NHS, yet they don't want it. So now he won't listen to him. Surely if you are given extra responsibilities at work you shoud get a pay rise? They don't need more responsibility, they have enough on their plates as it is. We don't need doctors wasting their time on accountancy, or worse hiring private companies to do it for them. What we need to do is let the doctors get on with doctoring and leave the budget setting to a third party who can do it objectively. The PCT's do this at the moment, and yes they are unpopular because they do this... but we don't want GPs becoming protest points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 The timing of this policy makes me suspect that the Coalition is putting ideological aims above the immediate needs of the country. They're very keen to remind us is up the swanny, yet are actively pushing legislation that they have no mandate to implement. In fact, Cameron explicitly said that there would be no top-down reorganisation of the NHS pre-election. He lied to the electors, in other words. He's managed to weasel out of a load of bad decisions on the grounds of the country's poor financial health, but he can't really pull that trick here. The re-organisation is going to cost 3bn amidst claims that it won't work and won't improve patient care. This bill does nothing on its own, but what it does do is establish structures linking public health care to big corporate healthcare firms. The bill will be a disaster. Instead of refining what we already have, we're sweeping the lot away, and placing the burden of procurement on people who should really be focused on making people better. As Saintandy666 says, they have enough on their plates as it is. Asking them to implement these reforms on top of their normal jobs is unreasonable and unnecessary - compounded by the fact that there is no appetite for it. It'll end in chaos, probably with private healthcare companies swooping in to save the day. And that kids, is how you privatise the NHS without too many people making much of a fuss ( SuperMikey's aforementioned nutjobs excepted, naturally ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svetigpung Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 All this politics is bull5hite BUT , i do enjoy a good protest along with the other nutters. And mostly normal peeps. The thing is that the nutters make better tv. Love it when an egg or a cream cake gets planted on some whitehall wqnkers face. They have absolutely no idea what to do or where to turn (se above link). They are all a bunch of cheating t0ssers , far from the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 The timing of this policy makes me suspect that the Coalition is putting ideological aims above the immediate needs of the country. They're very keen to remind us is up the swanny, yet are actively pushing legislation that they have no mandate to implement. In fact, Cameron explicitly said that there would be no top-down reorganisation of the NHS pre-election. He lied to the electors, in other words. He's managed to weasel out of a load of bad decisions on the grounds of the country's poor financial health, but he can't really pull that trick here. The re-organisation is going to cost 3bn amidst claims that it won't work and won't improve patient care. This bill does nothing on its own, but what it does do is establish structures linking public health care to big corporate healthcare firms. The bill will be a disaster. Instead of refining what we already have, we're sweeping the lot away, and placing the burden of procurement on people who should really be focused on making people better. As Saintandy666 says, they have enough on their plates as it is. Asking them to implement these reforms on top of their normal jobs is unreasonable and unnecessary - compounded by the fact that there is no appetite for it. It'll end in chaos, probably with private healthcare companies swooping in to save the day. And that kids, is how you privatise the NHS without too many people making much of a fuss ( SuperMikey's aforementioned nutjobs excepted, naturally ). He broke his promise on no top-down re-organisation, and he broke his promise on no cuts to the NHS as well! Budgets are being cut left, right and centre... often renamed 'efficiency savings'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 He broke his promise on no top-down re-organisation, and he broke his promise on no cuts to the NHS as well! Budgets are being cut left, right and centre... often renamed 'efficiency savings'. How much has the NHS budget been cut by? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 How much has the NHS budget been cut by? £20bn in 'efficiency savings'. It's quite a lot when it goes down to individual hospital trusts. Hard decisions are having to be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ludgershallsaint Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 In 1946 the BMA were oppossed to the setting up of the NHS, so Doctors aren't always the best people to decide how a country should run its health service. In 1946 the government had a mandate from the electorate to form the NHS. I suggest that this government doesn't have an electoral mandate for its reorganisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 He broke his promise on no top-down re-organisation, and he broke his promise on no cuts to the NHS as well! Budgets are being cut left, right and centre... often renamed 'efficiency savings'. I think you give him too much credit by referring it to as promise breaking. This isn't "we couldn't quite do what we said we would do", more like "we're doing the exact opposite of what we said we would do". David Cameron is a liar. I sometimes wonder how apathetic people would be about politics if it were presented to them in such honest terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 I think you give him too much credit by referring it to as promise breaking. This isn't "we couldn't quite do what we said we would do", more like "we're doing the exact opposite of what we said we would do". David Cameron is a liar. I sometimes wonder how apathetic people would be about politics if it were presented to them in such honest terms. I think Cameron is a very weak Prime Minister, and I think the Conservatives could do a lot better than him. William Hague, is just one of the many(was leader at the wrong time really)who would be much better in my opinion, not that I agree with him at all on most things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 £20bn in 'efficiency savings'. It's quite a lot when it goes down to individual hospital trusts. Hard decisions are having to be made. Examples? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I think you give him too much credit by referring it to as promise breaking. This isn't "we couldn't quite do what we said we would do", more like "we're doing the exact opposite of what we said we would do". David Cameron is a liar. I sometimes wonder how apathetic people would be about politics if it were presented to them in such honest terms. Politicians (of all hues) aren't liars per se, they're just very adept at presenting a 'truth' in an oblique way that's then open to various different interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 You know, all that head in hands stuff? It's given you tunnel vision Spoilsport. I was rather hoping your next question was going to be: "Ok, and where does that tax money originate from?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Examples? My local hospital is cutting millions in 'efficiency savings'. A lot of it is welcome, and most is just great money saving or will just result in hospitals becoming more specialised so you'll just have to travel further for treatment which will provide difficulty for many. Much that isn't like that is affecting waiting times and decisions over how much of what can be done and when. This is all well documented though! Though, in my opinion, it is about time we sat down and worked out what we want and need the NHS to do. Reform of a kind I guess, but not these reforms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 This is interesting too, a list of all Lords and MP's with vested interests or links with companies who will benefit from the new bill: http://socialinvestigations.blogspot.com/2012/02/nhs-privatisation-compilation-of.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17104463 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Am I the only one who saw the batty old dear and wondered if it was bridgetoofar? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1W5JfSCGaI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seaford Saint Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Am I the only one who saw the batty old dear and wondered if it was bridgetoofar? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1W5JfSCGaI probably Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17112846 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 My local hospital is cutting millions in 'efficiency savings'. Apologies for not making myself clear, but when I asked for "examples?" I meant specific examples of cuts, not just a general headline figure. All I'm after is some examples of the actual cuts that are being made on the 'shop floor'. For example: "The stroke unit are making do with 3 pairs of scissors rather than the usual 7" Or..."the neurological unit is making do with 4 brain surgeons instead of the usual 6" That sort of specifics. Without focusing on the actual tangible nature of the cuts it's difficult to argue for or against them. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 This was reported in Private Eye a couple of weeks ago, but check out About Andrew. Basically, if you were in the market for an Andrew Lansley, this would be the spiel. The Eye picked out this juicy tidbit:- Aside from being appointed as the Secretary of State for health, Andrew's proudest career achievements thus far include; running the Conservative campaign for the 1992 General Election (for which he was awarded a CBE), and transforming the public’s view of the Conservative Party’s commitment to the NHS. Yes, Andrew - you most certainly have done that. Before, I simply thought you would massive underfund it. Now I know you'll probably destroy it beyond all recognition. Well I'm a convert. Anyone else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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