cobbysouth Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 after this promotion push we may be in the premier league, if so there needs to be changes and improvements to the team, who do you think we should try to get and who do you think can/cant cope with the premier league??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marsdinho Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 One step at a time.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 bit early yet.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobbysouth Posted 20 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 20 February, 2012 nothing wrong with thinking ahead, even if we dont go up there still may be changes to the team! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MongoNeil Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 And we thought WHU fans were being arrogant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 If I'm honest (and I'll reckon I'll get shot down for saying so) one of the best things about the current squad is they're a team, they and the fans have been together on a journey from league one on minus 10 to top of the championship (via a winning cup final) and I feel more affection(not sure if that's quite the right way to put it) for this bunch of players than I have in many years. That being the case I don't want to see us drop loads of money on lots of new players if we get back to the PL I rather see the current players get a good crack at it (even if it means coming back down to the championship). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 A Goal keeper. No idea who though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Think we should be mathematically promoted before threads like this start...only going to tempt fate. Exciting times ahead yes, but one step at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 If I'm honest (and I'll reckon I'll get shot down for saying so) one of the best things about the current squad is they're a team, they and the fans have been together on a journey from league one on minus 10 to top of the championship (via a winning cup final) and I feel more affection(not sure if that's quite the right way to put it) for this bunch of players than I have in many years. That being the case I don't want to see us drop loads of money on lots of new players if we get back to the PL I rather see the current players get a good crack at it (even if it means coming back down to the championship). What he says. It feels like the good old days in the way the players have stuck around. The fans have warmed to the players & vice versa. Hopefully the days of mercanary players coming in for a season (or even just half a season) have gone. I feel like this squad have grown with each other sharing the bad times with the good, and it would be a shame, and a bit disloyal for the club to bring in a host of new players should we get promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Just live in the NOW! and enjoy the ride........................................... ............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norwaysaint Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 I think Adkins should make a statement now about which players he'll be getting rid of once they've battled to get us promoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 I think Adkins should make a statement now about which players he'll be getting rid of once they've battled to get us promoted. Couldn't agree more! While he's at it he should point out that he is off to Spurs in the summer to replace Arry! Total no Brainer really!!! Best put that in to avoid abuse from those not having read the full thread at about 3:30 this afternoon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 If we are promoted, I don't think we need to make substantial changes. I think we would need more cover at centre back and maybe a bit more pace on the wings. But that probably applies if we are in the NPC for another season too. Those who I think are unlikely to figure next season (whichever division we're in) are Jaidi, Seaborne, Dickson, Holmes, Connolly, Falque and - possibly - Hammond and Barnard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 The only speculation should be around those players who's contract is due to run out at the end of the season... will they be renewed or not? Otherwise, I'm happy as doddisalegend has stated, the team is playing as one, even Puncheon is back in the fold as it's great to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 (edited) I've been saying since September that we needed to add 3/4 in January then another 4 in the summer - but who we can actually get in will entirely depend on which League we're in - players who will baulk at signing for an unlucky Championship side with ambition and maybe a few quid to fund a renewed promotion push, won't have any problem signing for a potentially struggling Prem team. In addition to that, there will be players jumping ship from relegated sides who are useful acquisitions, but we don't know who's going down yet either. So specific names are too early to say, but I think we'd need strengthening in the following positions to have a Prem side : GK (1) - Kelv's one shot up there so far was disastrous with Sunderland and Bart's shakiness doesn't offer much at that level. We have to bring in a top flight keeper to compete. RB - I think we're ok here with Richardson, Butterfield has a new deal and played at the top before as well, and Jack Stephens has impressed whenever I've seen him and could be able to step up. CB - (1-2) Who knows if Seabourne will be back or up to the task, and Jaidi is unlikely to feature even if retained. We need at least one, maybe two in to give options other than Fonte, Hooiveld and Martin. There's not a lot of pace in there. LB - (0-1?) someone to challenge Fox who has top flight experience - unless Shaw (or Harding!) steps up ? RM - Chaplow, Puncheon, Guly, Lee, De Ridder - plenty of depth, some top flight experience - we'd have to sign someone pretty special to improve on that. CM - (1-2) Cork, Schneiderlin, Hammond... some cover from Puncheon and Chaplow there but with the rigours of the modern game and the suspensions you can get we need at least one addition with top-half Prem experience, maybe someone like Guthrie but who would slot in as a starter. Only Cork has the level of experience at the moment and it remains to be seen if Morgan IS the top-flight player we thought he could be when we were -10 in League One. It would be a remarkable achievement if he was able to up his game further, moreso for Hammond. Ward-Prowse is a little way away at the moment. LM - (0-1?) Lallana, then what ? A tricky one - I can't see Reeves being quite there but again, we'd have to sign one heck of a player to slot in ahead of Ads - which is not to say we shouldn't try ! Various positions and utility players fit in as cover, though Holmes will be on his way so expect one signing who maybe can fit in here but doesn't necessarily start there - maybe a left-sided CM or a left winger - unless Lee is already that player. Strikers - (1-2) Both Sharp and Lambert are untried, but so was Grant Holt... Lee is unproven though has potential, and we've not seen anything from Doble or Forte to think they'll still be around, same goes for Barnard really - not fast enough or skilful enough to make an impact, unlike the other two. Connolly might be worth keeping on for his top flight experience, but even back in 2005 Prem squads had 4 strikers who could come in and do a job at any point, so with Guly potentially in use in midfield, we'd need to sign at least one top-flight striker and maybe two. Simplest way of summarising that would be 1 GK 1 CB 1 CM 1 LW 1 AT Our 25 (trying to consider home-grown/youth players in italics but not sure at the mo) would then be : GK : GK, Davis, Bart, Dovey? RB : Richardson, Butterfield, Stephens CB : CB, Hooiveld, Fonte, Martin LB : Fox, Harding, Shaw RM : Guly, Chaplow, Puncheon, De Ridder CM : CM, Cork, Schneiderlin, Hammond, Ward-Prowse LM : Lallana, LW, Reeves ST : ST, Lambert, Sharp, Lee, Connolly/Barnard. It also appears my "4" in the summer is now a "5", I'll put that down to Bart's wobble. But that's for the squad, not the team, we don't have to get rid of anyone regularly starting at the moment and we don't haev to chuck them all in at the same time either. Edited 20 February, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 The only speculation should be around those players who's contract is due to run out at the end of the season... will they be renewed or not? Otherwise, I'm happy as doddisalegend has stated, the team is playing as one, even Puncheon is back in the fold as it's great to see. Judging by the swathe of contract renewals last season, and the subsequent lack of use of some of those players, there's the distinct possibility that we'll have automatic promotion renewal clauses in some contracts. But that doesn't mean we'd have to name them in the 25. Assuming Prem... etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 I'm with doddisalegend, we have a rapport with this sqaud and what is even more important is that they have a rapport with each other. That is very rare in the modern game and will count for a lot among the mercenaries of the Premiership who couldn't care less what shirt they wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 (edited) Keeper, CB, RB, CM, Striker. 5 good signings if we go up, IMO. Nothing more needed. Basically what I said [in about 1000 words], but I have more faith in Richardson and Jack Stephens and don't think our cover for Lallana is up to much. Edited 20 February, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 A Goal keeper. No idea who though Paul Robinson. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_Ash Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 If I'm honest (and I'll reckon I'll get shot down for saying so) one of the best things about the current squad is they're a team, they and the fans have been together on a journey from league one on minus 10 to top of the championship (via a winning cup final) and I feel more affection(not sure if that's quite the right way to put it) for this bunch of players than I have in many years. That being the case I don't want to see us drop loads of money on lots of new players if we get back to the PL I rather see the current players get a good crack at it (even if it means coming back down to the championship). Hmm, do we really want to let sentimentality really get in the way of winning things and striving to get to the top? I don't think so, some of the players that were there when we were at our lowest have helped us get out of the poop but unfortunately they might not be up for it in the Prem (if/when we get there). The players that have been with us on the journey will get a decent try out in the Prem if they're good enough, if they're not then we thank them for helping us to get where we are then we go our seperate ways. There won't be a massive cull at any rate, we know from experience that Adkins will only let 2 or 3 drift off and bring the same amount in with better quality. Cortese won't want us to the Prem and then maybe undo all that hard work by playing the players that were doing it in league 1 just for sentimental purposes, and thankfully you definitely won't here him saying to play them even if it means relegation. Surely it's a lot more important to stay in the top league than play some players that aren't good enough just bacause theyve been with us for a while. I'm afraid each season is a different chapter and we shouldn't let feelings get too much in the way off achieving things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 We should go for Joe Hart, Messi and Iniesta. If we don't, then we are all being mugged off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Bit of a way to go yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Lungs Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 The9, we also have "de Riddler"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintstr1 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 I Watched Gary Hooper Star for Celtic Yesterday , Best player on the park by a mile so if we get promotion I hope we go back in for him. He would probably move for premiership football and IMO £8/10 million would be well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 I Watched Gary Hooper Star for Celtic Yesterday , Best player on the park by a mile so if we get promotion I hope we go back in for him. He would probably move for premiership football and IMO £8/10 million would be well spent. Yeah best player against an opostion team that would struggle in league one by the looks of it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Really???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Hmm, do we really want to let sentimentality really get in the way of winning things and striving to get to the top? I don't think so, some of the players that were there when we were at our lowest have helped us get out of the poop but unfortunately they might not be up for it in the Prem (if/when we get there). The players that have been with us on the journey will get a decent try out in the Prem if they're good enough, if they're not then we thank them for helping us to get where we are then we go our seperate ways. There won't be a massive cull at any rate, we know from experience that Adkins will only let 2 or 3 drift off and bring the same amount in with better quality. Cortese won't want us to the Prem and then maybe undo all that hard work by playing the players that were doing it in league 1 just for sentimental purposes, and thankfully you definitely won't here him saying to play them even if it means relegation. Surely it's a lot more important to stay in the top league than play some players that aren't good enough just bacause theyve been with us for a while. I'm afraid each season is a different chapter and we shouldn't let feelings get too much in the way off achieving things. Yeah I knew there would be people with that point of view which is perfectly valid. Personally however I think the team spirit we've built up the last few seasons will do us more good in the PL than a mass cull and bringing a load of over priced over hyped named players.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 A Goal keeper. No idea who though kasper schmeichel? Adam Federici? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 kasper schmeichel? Adam Federici? My Reading fanatic mate, swears by him. Reckons he is easily the best keeper in the league. Could be biased of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 My Reading fanatic mate, swears by him. Reckons he is easily the best keeper in the league. Could be biased of course. Seems to have improved massively since given the no.1 shirt Same could happen for our Bart i suppose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericb Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 If I'm honest (and I'll reckon I'll get shot down for saying so) one of the best things about the current squad is they're a team, they and the fans have been together on a journey from league one on minus 10 to top of the championship (via a winning cup final) and I feel more affection(not sure if that's quite the right way to put it) for this bunch of players than I have in many years. That being the case I don't want to see us drop loads of money on lots of new players if we get back to the PL I rather see the current players get a good crack at it (even if it means coming back down to the championship). Agree 100% with this, it feels like OUR club once more and it's been a long, long time since i've felt that (probably the Benali, Dodd, Le Tiss team was the last). Also i think we're one of the few clubs for which social media has actually helped. The good rapport amongst the team has shown on there and rubbed off through to the fans so that some of our geeky internet stalker types actually feel involved in the backroom banter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 The9, we also have "de Riddler"! I knew I'd forget someone. 4th in the right mid depth chart ? He's a striking option for when we have the need for pure pace... I'll add him in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Yeah I knew there would be people with that point of view which is perfectly valid. Personally however I think the team spirit we've built up the last few seasons will do us more good in the PL than a mass cull and bringing a load of over priced over hyped named players.... Not sure what in the transfer policy so far makes you think we'd do that ? And bringing in 5 players to challenge for 25-30 places isn't a mass cull - we're probably going to need to replace Forte, Doble, Seabourne, Jaidi, Dickson and Holmes, so there are your 5 to replace. I'd best put Ward-Prowse in the squad too as a homegrown youngster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Seems to have improved massively since given the no.1 shirt Same could happen for our Bart i suppose? Good idea , we sign a GK from Reading and then we can see if BB improves massively after being given the No1 shirt at Reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 Not sure what in the transfer policy so far makes you think we'd do that ? And bringing in 5 players to challenge for 25-30 places isn't a mass cull - we're probably going to need to replace Forte, Doble, Seabourne, Jaidi, Dickson and Holmes, so there are your 5 to replace. I'd best put Ward-Prowse in the squad too as a homegrown youngster... We're not talking about replacing squad players though, who should if the chaiman is taken at his word by replaced by up coming youth talent, people are talking about replacing established first teamers. See the Danny fox thread for a poster claiming our whole back 5 need replacing for the PL. Plenty of threads last summer about how many of our players weren't good enough for the championship. There will be plenty more threads like this if we do get promoted stating how many of our players aren't good enough before they've even kicked a ball in the PL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 I think we'll get rid of a few players at the end of the season (Forecast, Jaidi, Seaborne, Holmes, Forte, Connolly, Barnard) which would leave us with a squad of first-team players numbering around 21. We can register 25 players for our squad, obviously discounting those players who are under the age of 21 (Reeves, Ward-Prowse, Stephens, Shaw etc), so I reckon 4 quality signings would do the trick. Kelvin Davis has been outstanding for us, but I think it would be worth getting a younger keeper in (Smithies? Lewis? Butland?) to provide cover. Harsh on Bialkowski, but he'll be a great second choice after Kelvin retires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfnPanad Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 18 year old Bart was excellent until his awkward catch at Newcastle. He's never really had a run of games since then. A lot to prove - maybe too much. I'd be worried that we'd be letting ourselves in for the new Dave Beasant. GKs are a funny breed. Paul Smith looked amazing when deputising for Niemi but when he had the number 1 shirt to himself he was shocking. Then got better again when he moved to Forest. Maybe Bart needs a fresh start but I'd want to give him 10 league games first unless he "does a Blackpool" every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 We're not talking about replacing squad players though, who should if the chaiman is taken at his word by replaced by up coming youth talent, people are talking about replacing established first teamers. See the Danny fox thread for a poster claiming our whole back 5 need replacing for the PL. Plenty of threads last summer about how many of our players weren't good enough for the championship. There will be plenty more threads like this if we do get promoted stating how many of our players aren't good enough before they've even kicked a ball in the PL. You don't seem to grasp the concept of the squad evolving or buying players to improve the team. We should NEVER buy a player just to fill a space on the bench, and I'm sorry if that means some of the players you like get replaced. No sensible manager will introduce a swathe of new players at once unless they are significantly better than the ones in the team already (eg Pardew replacing nearly the entire defence in one match in early 2010). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 18 year old Bart was excellent until his awkward catch at Newcastle. He's never really had a run of games since then. A lot to prove - maybe too much. I'd be worried that we'd be letting ourselves in for the new Dave Beasant. GKs are a funny breed. Paul Smith looked amazing when deputising for Niemi but when he had the number 1 shirt to himself he was shocking. Then got better again when he moved to Forest. Maybe Bart needs a fresh start but I'd want to give him 10 league games first unless he "does a Blackpool" every week. Actually he had a decent run of games until the Play-Off semi-final when Burley unceremoniously dropped him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 20 February, 2012 Share Posted 20 February, 2012 I don't have many concerns about Adkins but one of them is this. He demands high-level loyalty and commitment from his players and he gives exactly the same in return. A lot of the squad closeness comes from this quality - they seem a very tight bunch. The question is whether he will be able to see the need to upgrade on all those players that are key members of the current squad but may well be unable to cut the mustard in the Premiership, and there are quite a few. Kelvin is a good example of the dilemma - one of the best regarded keepers in the Championship but IMO well short of what we'd need one division up. My worry is that Adkins' track record - getting promoted but arguably failing to consolidate - suggests that he might have problems in this area. My hope is that this occurred for budgetary reasons rather than excessive loyalty or tactical inability. I agree that it's too early for this discussion but I sure hope that someone at the club is thinking about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 You don't seem to grasp the concept of the squad evolving or buying players to improve the team. We should NEVER buy a player just to fill a space on the bench, and I'm sorry if that means some of the players you like get replaced. No sensible manager will introduce a swathe of new players at once unless they are significantly better than the ones in the team already (eg Pardew replacing nearly the entire defence in one match in early 2010). At what point did I say never buy a player? My point is that already people are calling for replacements becuase players aren't good enough, just like they did last summer, before those players have even kicked a ball in the PL. It turned out most of the forum experts on here where wrong last summer and most of the players were actual good enough. How many posters reckoned Lambert wasn't up to it last summer? . The main strength of this saints side is they are a team that plays for each other and are actually glad to be here... compare that to the shower that got us relegated from the PL with no spirit, intrest or fight. There is no need for wholesale replacements 5 of our strongest 11 is nearly 50 % replacement of our first 11 that will do wonders for the team spirit. Out of the three teams who went up last season which one spunked the most cash on new players and which has the lowest table postion...............Most people on here just want the club to spend for the sake of spending or they just cry through every transfer window.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 (edited) At what point did I say never buy a player? My point is that already people are calling for replacements becuase players aren't good enough, just like they did last summer, before those players have even kicked a ball in the PL. It turned out most of the forum experts on here where wrong last summer and most of the players were actual good enough. How many posters reckoned Lambert wasn't up to it last summer? . The main strength of this saints side is they are a team that plays for each other and are actually glad to be here... compare that to the shower that got us relegated from the PL with no spirit, intrest or fight. There is no need for wholesale replacements 5 of our strongest 11 is nearly 50 % replacement of our first 11 that will do wonders for the team spirit. Out of the three teams who went up last season which one spunked the most cash on new players and which has the lowest table postion...............Most people on here just want the club to spend for the sake of spending or they just cry through every transfer window.. I didn't say you said never buy a player, I said you haven't grasped that you buy players to improve the TEAM, not the squad. You buy better, not the same. Your issue is with the attitute of the players you think we might buy - I've not seen Adkins sign anyone with a bad attitude yet, I doubt he'll start doing that any time soon. As for "most of the players were actually good enough", let's see... from our starting side against Derby : Davis, Richardson, Fonte, Hooiveld, Fox, Chaplow, Cork, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Sharp, Lambert. 4 new signings since the start of the season - pretty much in line with what is being suggested now. Plus we had Lee and Puncheon* on the bench who weren't in contention this time last year and are appropriate starters. Hartlepool away on 22 Feb 2011 is the nearest equivalent : Davis, Jaidi, Harding, Butterfield, Fonte , Hammond , Chaplow, Guly, Lallana, Oxlade-Chamberlain, R Lambert So we've replaced FIVE of those starters in the past year, and the step from League One to Championship is nothing compared to from Championship to Premier League. Richardson and Chaplow probably weren't actually good enough for a Championship side this time last year either, and their improvement is to be commended, but it's fair enough to say that any 2 of the current side could step up like that to keep or get a place. Regarding the other sides who went up... Swansea have replaced SIX of last season's promotion side : Last Prem match : M Vorm, A Williams, A Rangel, N Taylor, S Caulker, L Britton, N Dyer, G Sigurdsson, J McEachran, D Graham, S Sinclair Feb 12 2011 (4-3 win at Middlesbrough) : D De Vries, A Tate, A Williams , A Rangel, L Britton, D Pratley, M Gower , S Sinclair, N Dyer, A Richards, L Moore Norwich have FIVE different starters to the equivalent time last year. 11 Feb 2012 (last Prem match) J Ruddy, E Ward, R Martin, A Drury, K Naughton, A Surman, D Fox, A Pilkington, E Bennett, S Jackson, G Holt 12 Feb 2011 (beat Reading in CCC) J Ruddy, E Ward, L Barnett, R Martin, A Drury, A Crofts, D Fox, W Hoolahan, H Lansbury, C Martin, G Holt Now admittedly that's across two transfer windows not one, but the fact remains that about half of the current team are likely to be replaced in the Prem, and if they're not good enough in February, they're probably not good enough in August. Edited 21 February, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I didn't say you said never buy a player, I said you haven't grasped that you buy players to improve the TEAM, not the squad. You buy better, not the same. Your issue is with the attitute of the players you think we might buy - I've not seen Adkins sign anyone with a bad attitude yet, I doubt he'll start doing that any time soon. As for "most of the players were actually good enough", let's see... from our starting side against Derby : Davis, Richardson, Fonte, Hooiveld, Fox, Chaplow, Cork, Schneiderlin, Lallana, Sharp, Lambert. 4 new signings since the start of the season - pretty much in line with what is being suggested now. Plus we had Lee and Puncheon* on the bench who weren't in contention this time last year and are appropriate starters. Hartlepool away on 22 Feb 2011 is the nearest equivalent : Davis, Jaidi, Harding, Butterfield, Fonte , Hammond , Chaplow, Guly, Lallana, Oxlade-Chamberlain, R Lambert So we've replaced FIVE of those starters in the past year, and the step from League One to Championship is nothing compared to from Championship to Premier League. Richardson and Chaplow probably weren't actually good enough for a Championship side this time last year either, and their improvement is to be commended, but it's fair enough to say that any 2 of the current side could step up like that to keep or get a place. Regarding the other sides who went up... Swansea have replaced SIX of last season's promotion side : Last Prem match : M Vorm, A Williams, A Rangel, N Taylor, S Caulker, L Britton, N Dyer, G Sigurdsson, J McEachran, D Graham, S Sinclair Feb 12 2011 (4-3 win at Middlesbrough) : D De Vries, A Tate, A Williams , A Rangel, L Britton, D Pratley, M Gower , S Sinclair, N Dyer, A Richards, L Moore Norwich have FIVE different starters to the equivalent time last year. 11 Feb 2012 (last Prem match) J Ruddy, E Ward, R Martin, A Drury, K Naughton, A Surman, D Fox, A Pilkington, E Bennett, S Jackson, G Holt 12 Feb 2011 (beat Reading in CCC) J Ruddy, E Ward, L Barnett, R Martin, A Drury, A Crofts, D Fox, W Hoolahan, H Lansbury, C Martin, G Holt Now admittedly that's across two transfer windows not one, but the fact remains that about half of the current team are likely to be replaced in the Prem, and if they're not good enough in February, they're probably not good enough in August. If you look through the first half on the season (up until December) at most you will find three new players (Nottingham forest away for example Jos,fox,cork)) in the starting 11 more often only two. Up until September, when we won 6 out of 7 games there is often only one (Jack Cork) with De-Ridder as a sub. If Seabourne hadn't got ****ed up we most likely wouldn't have even seen Jos meaning two new starters Fox and Cork. Yes we've added in January but you have to wonder if we would have even done that if some of last seasons players didn't have long term injuries. Basically most of the starting 11 in the 1st half of the season (where we did so well) were players from last season plus 2. I'd like us to carry that on into next season if we get into the PL with possible one or two additions in the starting 11 summer rather than five or six. Judging by last summer I reckon I'm more likely to get what I want than those who want whole scale changes.........but who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 (edited) If you look through the first half on the season (up until December) at most you will find three new players (Nottingham forest away for example Jos,fox,cork)) in the starting 11 more often only two. Up until September, when we won 6 out of 7 games there is often only one (Jack Cork) with De-Ridder as a sub. If Seabourne hadn't got ****ed up we most likely wouldn't have even seen Jos meaning two new starters Fox and Cork. Yes we've added in January but you have to wonder if we would have even done that if some of last seasons players didn't have long term injuries. Basically most of the starting 11 in the 1st half of the season (where we did so well) were players from last season plus 2. I'd like us to carry that on into next season if we get into the PL with possible one or two additions in the starting 11 summer rather than five or six. Judging by last summer I reckon I'm more likely to get what I want than those who want whole scale changes.........but who knows I'd take issue with the assertion that the side was basically only 2 players different for most of the first half of the season - we've only added Sharp to the starting line up since January. We also signed Hooiveld the week before Seaborne's accident (after a summer nearly signing centre backs like Jemal) so your assertion about not signing Jos is way off. The gradual replacement of Harding by Fox is more evidence that even if we sign players we can integrate them gradually, which is why I'm not worried about probably needing to replace half the team - we've already done it gradually whilst maintaining the ethos. The other issue from the step up to the Prem is that if so many of these players were League One players, one step up is impressive, two might be a bridge too far. Edited 21 February, 2012 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 I'd take issue with the assertion that the side was basically only 2 players different for most of the first half of the season - we've only added Sharp to the starting line up since January. We also signed Hooiveld the week before Seabourne's accident (after a summer nearly signing centre backs like Jemal) so your assertion about not signing Jos is way off. The gradual replacement of Harding by Fox is more evidence that even if we sign players we can integrate them gradually, which is why I'm not worried about probably needing to replace half the team - we've already done it gradually whilst maintaining the ethos. The other issue from the step up to the Prem is that if so many of these players were League One players, one step up is impressive, two might be a bridge too far. Pretty sure we signed Hooiveld after the Seaborne incident? Regardless........what the club has done well is slowly evolve, gradually chaging a player here or there. Richardson has been a significant impact, due to his generally improved fitness, so that's a hard one to judge. We've also replaced our other full-back. And changed the "core" of the team, Hooiveld, Cork, Sharp/Lee in the last 6 months or so. Previous key players, such as Hammond are slowly being eased out and could you imagine Barnard (previously a pretty key player), really fitting into our side now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Pretty sure we signed Hooiveld after the Seaborne incident? Regardless........what the club has done well is slowly evolve, gradually chaging a player here or there. Richardson has been a significant impact, due to his generally improved fitness, so that's a hard one to judge. We've also replaced our other full-back. And changed the "core" of the team, Hooiveld, Cork, Sharp/Lee in the last 6 months or so. Previous key players, such as Hammond are slowly being eased out and could you imagine Barnard (previously a pretty key player), really fitting into our side now? I stand corrected Jos arrived Aug 31st Seaborne got beaten up Sep 1st so the two probably seemed linked at the time but couldn't have been in less Nigel can see in to the future. I agree with you though slow evolution is far better than a mass cull and lots of new faces....which is what I've been saying all along. Also Butterfield getting a new contract suggests that players aren't going to be discarded willy nilly as some might think. On the subject of Barnard I wonder if he had been fit and playing most of the season whether we would have seen Billy Sharp at all. Same with Jos and Jaidi there is no way knowing whether some of the signings were a delibrate attempet by NA to upgrade or a reaction to players he had faith in not being avaliable as planned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 If Birmingham don't come up, i'd love us to sign Ben Foster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Pretty sure we signed Hooiveld after the Seaborne incident? Regardless........what the club has done well is slowly evolve, gradually chaging a player here or there. Richardson has been a significant impact, due to his generally improved fitness, so that's a hard one to judge. We've also replaced our other full-back. And changed the "core" of the team, Hooiveld, Cork, Sharp/Lee in the last 6 months or so. Previous key players, such as Hammond are slowly being eased out and could you imagine Barnard (previously a pretty key player), really fitting into our side now? Aside from your timeline on the Seaborne/Hooiveld thing (see the post above), yeah I agree with that, we've slowly evolved and that's the way to do it - I think the only difference here is I'm expecting 4 or 5 new players if we go up, and others think 2 or 3 will suffice - which up until now I'd have agreed with, but I see the changes other promoted teams have had to make and hopefully we've learned from those. As mentioned above, QPR have changed almost everyone in a pretty adhoc fashion and it's not working as well as Swansea and Norwich's gradual changes. Regarding Jaidi and Barnard, I suspect they're nothing like as "injured" as had been reported, same with Butterfield, but it explains them not being in the squad without affecting their possible transfer value or professional reputations, and I think that's one of the reasons Adkins gets the players' respect, he looks after them. We were always going to sign "upgrades" in those positions even if they stayed fit, the Sharp/Maynard/Rodriguez rumours were around in the summer, and I know the bloke who took Ammar Jemal back to the airport after his trial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 If Birmingham don't come up, i'd love us to sign Ben Foster. Kasper Schmeichel for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 21 February, 2012 Share Posted 21 February, 2012 Kasper Schmeichel for me. And me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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