Argentina upping the ante on the Falklands....

[Frank's cousin]

You totally miss the point. That is their home and not blighty. That is why it was important to fight for this right and their choice to be ruled over by whom they want. Are you advocating some sort of ethnic cleansing?

 

What did your Dad do over there?

 

Not missing the point at all - just raising aquestion on why nationality seems so important to some when in the bigger picture it's pretty meaningless, especially when as you say its the home that is more important then why not be a seperate country... which is afterall nigh on 15000 miles away?

 

The old man was Royal Engineers so went out towards the end - saw some things he is reluctant to talk about

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Not missing the point at all - just raising aquestion on why nationality seems so important to some when in the bigger picture it's pretty meaningless, especially when as you say its the home that is more important then why not be a seperate country... which is afterall nigh on 15000 miles away?

 

The old man was Royal Engineers so went out towards the end - saw some things he is reluctant to talk about

 

Expat communities are often more British than we are. I thought it was 8000 miles but surely distance is not the issue. When the bigger picture is looked at often the small people and their rights get ignored.

 

 

I can imagine we saw a pretty sanitised version of it. The media were held under quite a tight rein if I remember. I imagine the engineer's work lacked the glamour of the other regiments but must have been just as stressful.

[pap]

As most will have observed, I am fairly critical of governments, this one in particular. I'd love to stick the boot into Cameron, but on this issue, I can't.

 

Now I'm fairly sure that there are other considerations, Such as the huge newly discovered oil deposits, but the rights of the islanders to self determination is paramount.

 

This is a populist move organised by a government in crisis. I'm sure many Argentinians want the islands back. Who doesn't like free land and free oil?

 

It'll be interesting to see what sort of noises the Americans make over this one. They were not too supportive before, special relationship and all.

 

Have they made a statement yet?

[Barry Sanchez]

As most will have observed, I am fairly critical of governments, this one in particular. I'd love to stick the boot into Cameron, but on this issue, I can't.

 

Now I'm fairly sure that there are other considerations, Such as the huge newly discovered oil deposits, but the rights of the islanders to self determination is paramount.

 

This is a populist move organised by a government in crisis. I'm sure many Argentinians want the islands back. Who doesn't like free land and free oil?

 

It'll be interesting to see what sort of noises the Americans make over this one. They were not too supportive before, special relationship and all.

 

Have they made a statement yet?

 

American would help us as they did before, they provided sidewinder missiles which helped us win or argubly did win us the war.

Obama would not say it he would remain neutral (he like most of America hates the old Empire but he would have to go along with it as we are not the aggressor) and seek peace talks, but the yank military would love to test gizmo's on a war they have no part in.

 

 

Note the US bought their empire

California

New Mexico

Texas

Alaska

Louisiana Purchase and other now US States.

Philippines

Cuba

Costa Rica

Hawaii

American Samoa

And others but history has taken those pages away.

[Ken Tone]

As most will have observed, I am fairly critical of governments, this one in particular. I'd love to stick the boot into Cameron, but on this issue, I can't.

 

Now I'm fairly sure that there are other considerations, Such as the huge newly discovered oil deposits, but the rights of the islanders to self determination is paramount.

 

This is a populist move organised by a government in crisis. I'm sure many Argentinians want the islands back. Who doesn't like free land and free oil?

 

It'll be interesting to see what sort of noises the Americans make over this one. They were not too supportive before, special relationship and all.

 

Have they made a statement yet?

 

Don't fall for their propaganda. The islands have never really ever belonged to Argentina, so they can't want them 'back'

 

. They put a semi-officially (lots of corruption involved) backed 'governor' and about 20 men on part of the islands around 1830 , some 70 years after several European countries had separately discovered and claimed them in dispute with each other, before Argentina even existed as a country. Those men murdered that governor, and were expelled as pirates, mostly by the Americans who were annoyed that they had attacked their whaling ships...this only 20 years after America had been at war with Britian, and when they were still far from our friendly allies.

 

The Argentinian pseudo-legal claim is based mainly on the fact that the Pope 'gave' all that part of the world to Spain in the fifteenth century, before it had even been discovered or mapped, and Spain gave up their rights to that part to their ex-colony of the River Plate as they left it. The River Plate state later evolved into Argentina.

 

There was no indigenous population of the Islands before European occupation, and there has never been an established Argentinian population there. In fact I doubt if any Argentinian citizen has ever been born there.

[Thedelldays]

look at the state of their forces.........an old T42 destroyer that was sold to them in the late 70s was still in service...and it sunk whilst alongside in port

 

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/01/24/argentine-defence-minister-ashamed-of-the-santisima-trinidad-sinking-in-port

[Ken Tone]

look at the state of their forces.........an old T42 destroyer that was sold to them in the late 70s was still in service...and it sunk whilst alongside in port

 

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/01/24/argentine-defence-minister-ashamed-of-the-santisima-trinidad-sinking-in-port

 

Only a matter of time before Kerchner goes to the UN claiming that it was sabotage by the British

 

(It happend to us once btw. ..http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/info_sheet_RoyalGeorge.htm , albeit about 230 years ago!)

[Pugwash]

look at the state of their forces.........an old T42 destroyer that was sold to them in the late 70s was still in service...and it sunk whilst alongside in port

 

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/01/24/argentine-defence-minister-ashamed-of-the-santisima-trinidad-sinking-in-port

 

So that explains your avatar.

 

And here's another interesting tit-bit:

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/01/22/cannibalized-falklands-war-argentine-destroyer-sinking-in-puerto-belgrano

[alpine_saint]

look at the state of their forces.........an old T42 destroyer that was sold to them in the late 70s was still in service...and it sunk whilst alongside in port

 

http://en.mercopress.com/2013/01/24/argentine-defence-minister-ashamed-of-the-santisima-trinidad-sinking-in-port

 

The photos of the Santissima Trinidad incident are extremely reminiscent of the sinking of HMS Coventry, and in a sense feel like a poetic justice.

 

Were the Batch1 and 2 variants of the Type 42 more susceptible to capsizing ? I read somewhere that the original removal of the hull section and stiffening in the design, finally put back for the Batch 3 variants, totally wrecked their handling qualities at sea; did it have other side-effects ?

[Pugwash]

I seem to recall there were some serious stability issues if fuel tanks were less than half (?) full.

[pap]

Don't fall for their propaganda. The islands have never really ever belonged to Argentina, so they can't want them 'back'

 

. They put a semi-officially (lots of corruption involved) backed 'governor' and about 20 men on part of the islands around 1830 , some 70 years after several European countries had separately discovered and claimed them in dispute with each other, before Argentina even existed as a country. Those men murdered that governor, and were expelled as pirates, mostly by the Americans who were annoyed that they had attacked their whaling ships...this only 20 years after America had been at war with Britian, and when they were still far from our friendly allies.

 

The Argentinian pseudo-legal claim is based mainly on the fact that the Pope 'gave' all that part of the world to Spain in the fifteenth century, before it had even been discovered or mapped, and Spain gave up their rights to that part to their ex-colony of the River Plate as they left it. The River Plate state later evolved into Argentina.

 

There was no indigenous population of the Islands before European occupation, and there has never been an established Argentinian population there. In fact I doubt if any Argentinian citizen has ever been born there.

 

Just spotted this with the emphasis. Yep, unfortunate turn of phrase there.

 

Thanks for straightening it out.

[Gemmel]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21341578

 

Getting a bit more ballsy with his statements now - 20 years - I don't think so.

[Viking Warrior]

Cameron/ mill and and cleggy will pull out our troops from the Falklands in the next defence review . So the argue will not have to wait 20 years . Our politicians are so spineless

[alpine_saint]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21341578

 

Getting a bit more ballsy with his statements now - 20 years - I don't think so.

 

This bloke with the white skin and German name (descendant of a run-away Nazi, perhaps) is so lacking self-awareness, its hillarious.

[alpine_saint]

Cameron/ mill and and cleggy will pull out our troops from the Falklands in the next defence review . So the argue will not have to wait 20 years . Our politicians are so spineless

 

If they do that they can forget the general election after. But I thought the next Defence Review is in 2015, meaning they wont be in power anyway.

[alpine_saint]

When do we expect the result of the referendum to be announced ?

 

Can take too long to count 1,800 votes, I reckon.

 

I am hoping for 100% yes vote, but you can never leglislate for the odd insane sheep-shaager whos spent too much time on his own.

[EastleighSoulBoy]

When do we expect the result of the referendum to be announced ?

 

Can take too long to count 1,800 votes, I reckon.

 

I am hoping for 100% yes vote, but you can never leglislate for the odd insane sheep-shaager whos spent too much time on his own.

 

There's odd insane folk in all walks of life, it's not exclusive to the Falklands!

[Ken Tone]

There are also one or two Argentinians and other South Americans eligible to vote. It is a genuine democracy, unlike Argentina's own history.

 

I expect about 3 votes against and the rest for remaining British. The main interest will be the turn out. Even with mobile polling stations , some parts of west falkland or some of the outlying islands in particular are so remote that it will be a real effort to vote

[Whitey Grandad]

There are also one or two Argentinians and other South Americans eligible to vote. It is a genuine democracy, unlike Argentina's own history.

 

I expect about 3 votes against and the rest for remaining British. The main interest will be the turn out. Even with mobile polling stations , some parts of west falkland or some of the outlying islands in particular are so remote that it will be a real effort to vote

 

Postal voting is an option for the more remote areas.

[alpine_saint]

There is also a small fleet of 4x4s serving as "mobile polling stations"

[PhilippineSaint]

Polling finishes this evening Falkland time so should have a result tomorrow morning sometime.

[Ken Tone]

Hadn't heard there was any postal voting in this? And the few mobile polling stations have to cover an area of land equal in size to Wales, with few roads in the remote areas, plus a fair bit of the area is made up of lots of small separate islands some of which have only a single farm settlement on them.

 

In some parts ,it can take an hour to travel a few miles even in a good 4x4

 

Make no mistake, some islanders will have had to make real effort to vote. They really care about this issue.

[Sheaf Saint]

There are also one or two Argentinians and other South Americans eligible to vote. It is a genuine democracy, unlike Argentina's own history.

 

I expect about 3 votes against and the rest for remaining British. The main interest will be the turn out. Even with mobile polling stations , some parts of west falkland or some of the outlying islands in particular are so remote that it will be a real effort to vote

 

According to the news this morning, you were spot on. 99.8% in favour - only 3 votes against.

[Ken Tone]

According to the news this morning, you were spot on. 99.8% in favour - only 3 votes against.

 

The one spoilt ballot was a surprise though!

[PhilippineSaint]

The one spoilt ballot was a surprise though!

 

Have you seen a sheep hold a pen?

[PhilippineSaint]

The one spoilt ballot was a surprise though!

 

Have you seen a sheep hold a pen?

[Whitey Grandad]

Have you seen a sheep hold a pen?

 

You've always been able to get sheep pens???

[PhilippineSaint]

You've always been able to get sheep pens???

 

no sheep in the Philippines my friend and good response to my poorly though out quip.

[RonManager]

Have you seen a sheep hold a pen?

 

No, but I have seen a pen hold a sheep.

[Whitey Grandad]

no sheep in the Philippines my friend and good response to my poorly though out quip.

 

Not bad at all, and I didn't know that. You must have a lot of sheepless nights.

[Tokyo-Saint]

Yeah but his sex life is fantastic.

[Convict Colony]

Interesting fact for you (or maybe not)

 

My folks went visit FI over xmas for a holiday (yeah I know) but the interesting thing about this is that they bumped into the head legal dude out there who runs the islands prison.

 

They currently have 5 inmates and of those 4 have been convicted of being peodo's !!!

 

Also a scottish dude also broke into the prision as he missed visiting hours and wanted to see his mate.

[Ken Tone]

Interesting fact for you (or maybe not)

 

My folks went visit FI over xmas for a holiday (yeah I know) but the interesting thing about this is that they bumped into the head legal dude out there who runs the islands prison.

 

They currently have 5 inmates and of those 4 have been convicted of being peodo's !!!

 

Also a scottish dude also broke into the prision as he missed visiting hours and wanted to see his mate.

 

Some serious crimes would be tried in the UK, and indeed long prison sentences served here, so this makes their own tiny prison population very unrepresentative, but nonetheless, they do indeed have a few problems that I understand are quite common amongst island communities. (Ring any bells?!)

 

They have a surprisingly large police force for the size of population too.

 

It is also a very hard-drinking (and smoking) society compared with modern Britain; many offences are drink-related, rather than for example premeditated theft.

[Ken Tone]

Extracts from a 2012 article based on an interview with the head of the FI police (who also runs the prison, which is actually part of the police station)

 

"The prison is located below the police station and at the time we spoke there were four prisoners, all serving lengthy sentences for child abuse.Mardsen explained: “People think we only tackle child abuse and we don’t tackle anything else. The reality is we don’t have murders, burglaries. . . we don’t have extreme violence and we don’t have robberies. Not in recent times. So therefore the reason why our prison population consists of people convicted of child abuse is because we don’t see the serious offences you would see in another society."

 

“The reality is that very little anti-social behaviour happens in Stanley or whether it be out in Camp (places outside Stanley). There isn’t actually very much need for us to go out to Camp because not many crimes are happening. The only times we tend to have to deploy out to Camp is when there has been a traffic collision or if there has been an incident where someone has hurt themselves.”

 

"In fact the people of the Falklands Islands are so peaceful they very rarely lock their doors! We were told about a bicycle that was thought stolen and reported but it later turned out that the owner may have simply forgotten where he left it."

[Viking Warrior]

now el presidenti is asking the pope to intevene

 

The Argentine president has asked Pope Francis to intervene in the row with Britain over the future of the Falkland Islands.

 

What has the president got to hide that they are so fixated on the falklands

[hypochondriac]

now el presidenti is asking the pope to intevene

 

The Argentine president has asked Pope Francis to intervene in the row with Britain over the future of the Falkland Islands.

 

What has the president got to hide that they are so fixated on the falklands

 

I thought they would try that.

[Window Cleaner]

now el presidenti is asking the pope to intevene

 

The Argentine president has asked Pope Francis to intervene in the row with Britain over the future of the Falkland Islands.

 

What has the president got to hide that they are so fixated on the falklands

 

What's it got to do with him ?

[Tokyo-Saint]

 

What has the president got to hide that they are so fixated on the falklands

 

It is in their constitution, therefore any new government is obliged to make a claim for the islands.

 

The Argentine Nation ratifies its legitimate and non-prescribing sovereignty over the Malvinas, Georgias del Sur and Sandwich del Sur Islands and over the corresponding maritime and insular zones, as they are an integral part of the National territory. The recovery of these territories and the full exercise of sovereignty, respecting the way of life for its inhabitants and according to the principles of international law, constitute a permanent and unwavering goal of the Argentine people.

[pap]

It is in their constitution, therefore any new government is obliged to make a claim for the islands.

 

The Argentine Nation ratifies its legitimate and non-prescribing sovereignty over the Malvinas, Georgias del Sur and Sandwich del Sur Islands and over the corresponding maritime and insular zones, as they are an integral part of the National territory. The recovery of these territories and the full exercise of sovereignty, respecting the way of life for its inhabitants and according to the principles of international law, constitute a permanent and unwavering goal of the Argentine people.

 

Can't we just give them the Isle of Wight and call it quits?

[Whitey Grandad]

Can't we just give them the Isle of Wight and call it quits?

 

Or Scotland?

[Gingeletiss]

Wonder what she thinks of the Welsh 'colony' in Argentina!

 

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofWales/The-History-of-Patagonia/

Edited 18 March, 2013 by Gingeletiss
methinks I missed a word!

[pap]

Playing devil's advocate for a bit, would anyone be particularly happy if the Isle of Wight was loaded up with Argies?

[Ken Tone]

now el presidenti is asking the pope to intevene

 

The Argentine president has asked Pope Francis to intervene in the row with Britain over the future of the Falkland Islands.

 

What has the president got to hide that they are so fixated on the falklands

 

It's the classic Machiavellian strategy of covering up problems at home by uniting agianst a common enemy. Argentina is in a mess. The Falkands is an issue that will stir up emotions every time, and turn attention away from their failing economy etc.

 

The Pope as an Argentinian, will a) presumably be as indoctrinated over this issue as most of them are, and b) has in his previous roles been seen to support their claim. I'd have been very surprised in Kerchner had not 'surfed' the publicity of his appointment to gain more publicity for the claim.

 

I would hope though, that now he is pope and in a position where he should be more objective and measured, he will simply politely ignore this.

[Window Cleaner]

Can't we just give them the Isle of Wight and call it quits?

 

Portsea Island would be no loss

[Viking Warrior]

May be the falklanders have better looking sheep than the argies. Thats why they want it back

[Tokyo-Saint]

Or Scotland?

 

I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking to give away Scotland, I can tell you we don't want any Argies. But what I do have are a very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let this issue go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find you, and I will kill you. FREEEEEEDOM

[Ken Tone]

Playing devil's advocate for a bit, would anyone be particularly happy if the Isle of Wight was loaded up with Argies?

 

Not that old one again!

 

1. Isle of wight is, what, 2 mles of the coast of England. Falkands are well over 200 miles from Argentina. By that basis, the UK should be claiming most of France and Belgium, and bits of Holland

 

2. Argentina have never held the Falklands as undisputed territory

 

3. The only "Argentinian" occupation of the islands only lasted about 15-20 years , consisted of a very dodgy 'free enterprise' and ended in piracy afer they murdered the 'governor', till the Americans threw them off for attacking their whaling ships. And actually that happend before Argentina as a country existed really. It was the predecessor state. Plus, when it happened, Britain never accepted the legitimacy of their occupation, having claimed the unoccupied islands decades before and having had several temporary settlements before this incursion.

 

4. The only real legal basis for the Argentinian claim is that the Pope in the 15th century 'gave' that whole area of the world (largely at that stage undiscovered ) to Spain, and the River Plate state that preceded Argentina was a Spanish colony, so they claim they 'inherited' Spain's rights in the area

 

5. The current population includes some whose ancesotrs have ived therwe since 1833 ,with no Argentinian presence in all that time

Edited 18 March, 2013 by Ken Tone

[pap]

Yeah, but devil's advocate again, why do we REALLY give a f*ck about the Falklands?

 

Got bugger all to do the islanders, imo - and all to do with the strategic placement plus the oil windfall we've just found.

[View From The Top]

Yeah, but devil's advocate again, why do we REALLY give a f*ck about the Falklands?

 

Got bugger all to do the islanders, imo - and all to do with the strategic placement plus the oil windfall we've just found.

 

Having been down there I have no idea why we would want it apart for the very good reason of pi.ssing the Argies off (oil & gas are a bonus) BUT the fact that the population wish to remain British does mean, to me at least, that we have a duty to ensure that.

[pap]

Having been down there I have no idea why we would want it apart for the very good reason of pi.ssing the Argies off (oil & gas are a bonus) BUT the fact that the population wish to remain British does mean, to me at least, that we have a duty to ensure that.

 

Taking that to its logical conclusion, shouldn't we be annexing the Costa Del Sol?

 

I know we've got the veneer of self-determination here, which is fair enough. On a completely different level, it makes no fkn sense. You wanna be British? That's grand. There's a whole country of us here.

 

Truth is, they don't really want to be British. They wanna remain as Falkland Islanders, and want to keep the UK as a mother country because it's a sh!tload more stable than the situation 300 miles away.