Saints 2 Burnley 0 - Post Match Chat

[kpturner]

Burnley surprised me. I expected them to be a much more dangerous opponent than that. I guess we may have caught them on an off day, but even at the start of the second half when they applied a lot of pressure and had a few set pieces, they did not cause us any difficulty - apart from one scramble where Davis eventually fell on the ball while defenders and strikers had a few air shots. It was immensely satisfying to watch Charlie Austin for 90 minutes without him having a sniff. I believe he has scored against us every time he has played ( until yesterday). Rodriguez was difficult to judge. On yesterdays showing I am glad we have Sharp instead - but that may be a bit unfair to say after just 90 minutes. He made a great run at the end and (IMHO) got body checked - but nothing was given.

Edited 12 February, 2012 by kpturner
Open brackets followed by "until" is treated as a swear word :)

[farawaysaint]

Notable lack of Burnley "highlights." I think Sharp was a bit cheeky to claim that goal as his as well

[Legod Third Coming]

Why have you got it in for Morgan? Your always negative about him? He was excellent.

 

There is a strain of fan who thinks that passing accuracy is irrelevant and that rather than keep hold of the ball, we should lump it 50 yards in the vain hope it will drop to one of our players... these fans are those who don't rate Morgan.

[eurosaint]

There is a strain of fan who thinks that passing accuracy is irrelevant and that rather than keep hold of the ball, we should lump it 50 yards in the vain hope it will drop to one of our players... these fans are those who don't rate Morgan.

 

A few of those sit around me in the Kingsland, makes me cringe when I hear the constant cries of "get rid of it" when a defender has the ball at his feet !!

[Window Cleaner]

There is a strain of fan who thinks that passing accuracy is irrelevant and that rather than keep hold of the ball, we should lump it 50 yards in the vain hope it will drop to one of our players... these fans are those who don't rate Morgan.

 

highly likely but they're probably old school who thought that Cliff Huxford and Docker Walker were real footballers.

 

The side is structured differently nowadays.Midfield consists of a recoverer,a relayer,a playmaker and a wide player.

The recoverer has virtually no attacking role, he recovers (oddly enough),protects the defence and pushes the ball forward,sideways or back just until it's an option to launch forward. He does not go rushing gung ho into the opponents box.If whoever was supposed to be playing this role on Tuesday had respected his task we wouldn't have lost against Millwall.When you're 2-0 or even 2-1 up you don't need to go rushing forward with all 11 players.As long as you have the ball the opponents don't.

[70's Mike]

Yes it did seem like we were more direct. Several times in the first half we looked to go straight to Lambert for a knock down to Sharp, but not frequently enough for it to be deemed "hoof ball". I thought we mixed it up quite well. Lambert seemed to pick the ball up wide more often than normal also. Although he has a good touch, rarely loses it and usually finds a decent pass/cross, I couldn't help thinking I would prefer him on the end of his own ball

 

as i posted yesterday thought i saw signs of a plan B

[vince]

Highlights:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zhnmo9v2Qw&feature=youtu.be

 

I don't think anyone else has put them up yet

 

Cheers - still doesn't seem to be up on the BBC site for some reason. For those asking about the offside goal, if you stop it at 1:44 in, you can see that DC had just drifted offside - the lino is in line with the last defender as you can see from the pitch markings. Looks like we can go into Tuesdays game full of confidence.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Thankfully you've provided complete balance by being descriptive and erudite on everything he did today.

 

Ok then as the pro Guly case seems to rely more on perspiration, rather than any evidence of inspiration, I'll set out to describe in as balanced a way as I can why I'm so reluctant to join the 'Guly is Gods gift to wing play' Club.

 

1 - The primary role of a wide player is surly to penetrate the oppositions defence and provide quality service for our forwards to create chances from. Did he do much of that yesterday ? - I don't think so.

2 - Some seem very impressed by his athleticism - and to be fair he is quite athletic - but does he alone in our team exhibit that quality ? I say other players (such as Jack Cork or Adam Lallana for instance) cover as much (if not more) ground as Guly do Prado does for the entire match not just 70 or 80 minutes, but for some reason this goes almost without comment in comparison. Could this be because it is expected from them as a right almost, but seen as a unexpected bonus from a Brazilian born player for some inexplicable reason ?

3 - As a sometime striker how did he do in front of goal ? The only significant chance he had came near the end of the first half when he bottled out of a 50/50 chance with Burnley's keeper. For a attacking player who apparently had such a great game yesterday the fact that he played no decisive role in either of our goals is noteworthy.

4 - How about his defensive play then ? Compared to a real quality quality midfielder (like Adam Lallana) his positional sense seems poor and as the Pompey game showed he cannot be depended upon in a critical situation - not if it means he might get hurt in the process anyway. But the massed ranks of his fan club can feel free to point out any crucial contribution I may have missed.

5 - I see some seem to think I have some sinister (racist ?) agenda against this player. Well my posting history is a matter of record just like everyone else's on here. So those who may care to stoop that low should provide some actual evidence to prove their case or shut up about it - or rather they need not bother because the record shows I've championed the cause of many black players on here over the years, such as Stern John, Michail Antonio, Joussef Safri ... etc ... etc ... etc

 

 

I hope the above is a sufficiently detailed critique that matches your high standards - please be so kind as to respond in kind. Those 'erudite' fans on the other hand who would like me to "ferk off" instead of expressing my view (as I see fit to do so) are likely to remain in a state of constant disappointment I'm afraid, because until such time as the Mods ban free speech on here I shall continue to have my say regardless of whether they happen to like it, or not.

Edited 12 February, 2012 by CHAPEL END CHARLIE

[Roger]

Ok then as the pro Guly case seems to rely more on perspiration, rather than any evidence of inspiration, I'll set out to describe in as balanced a way as I can why I'm so reluctant to join the 'Guly is Gods gift to wing play' Club.

 

1 - The primary role of a wide player is surly to penetrate the oppositions defence and provide quality service for our forwards to create chances from. Did he do much of that yesterday ? - I don't think so.

2 - Some seem very impressed by his athleticism - and to be fair he is quite athletic - but does he alone in our team exhibit that quality ? I say other players (such as Jack Cork or Adam Lallana for instance) cover as much (if not more) ground as Guly do Prado does for the entire match not just 70 or 80 minutes, but for some reason this goes almost without comment in comparison. Could this be because it is expected from them as a right almost, but seen as a unexpected bonus from a Brazilian born player for some inexplicable reason ?

3 - As a sometime striker how did he do in front of goal ? The only significant chance he had came near the end of the first half when he bottled out of a 50/50 chance with Burnley's keeper. For a attacking player who apparently had such a great game yesterday the fact that he played no decisive role in either of our goals is noteworthy.

4 - How about his defensive play then ? Compared to a real quality quality midfielder (like Adam Lallana) his positional sense seems poor and as the Pompey game showed he cannot be relying upon in a critical situation - not if it means he might get hurt in the process anyway. But the massed ranks of his fan club can feel free to point out any crucial contribution I may have missed.

5 - I see some seem to think I have some sinister (racist ?) agenda against this player. Well my posting history is a matter of record just like everyone else's on here. So those who may care to stoop that low should provide some actual evidence to prove their case or shut up about it - or rather they need not bother because the record shows I've championed the cause of many black players on here over the years, such as Stern John, Michail Antonio, Joussef Safri ... etc ... etc ... etc

 

 

I hope the above is a sufficiently detailed critique that matches your high standards - please be so kind as to respond in kind. Those 'erudite' fans on the other hand who would like me to "ferk off" instead of expressing my view (as I see fit to do so) are likely to remain in a state of constant disappointment I'm afraid, because until such time as the Mods ban free speech on here I shall continue to have my say regardless of whether they happen to like it, or not.

 

Ur talking rubbish mate. Drop it. Guly worked his backside off yesterday and allowed richardson to overlap with his clever passing. I thought was a mistake not playing puncheon, I was proved wrong.

[hasper57saint]

I must have been at a different game to that of CEC although I'm a STH in the Chapel. I thought Guly had a very good game.I'm very impressed with Billy Sharp. Stocky,can put himself about and dosen't 'play act' when he gets clobbered.Full marks to all for a much improved and well executed performance. My only reservation is this: Why is it whenever the opposition have a corner we,for some unknown reason, bunch all of our players in our box? Yesterday, had Adkins left Billy on the centre line then Burnley would have to put two players somewhere near him. Time after time we defend corners and clear only for the ball to drop on the oppositions lone defender who hoofs it back in because we have no one waiting.

PS. I don't think Billy scored!But who cares? It went in and we won.

[VectisSaint]

A few of those sit around me in the Kingsland, makes me cringe when I hear the constant cries of "get rid of it" when a defender has the ball at his feet !!

To be fair for the first 15 minutes or so of the 2nd half yesterday they had a right to be saying this. We were very guilty of fannying around at the back and letting Burnley come on to us, and our defenders were guilty of some awful passing. There are times when pssession is very important and its good to see us playing it short and looking for openings, and there are other times when a better tactic is to boot the ball as far away from our goal as you possibly can. We were under pressure at the bginning of the 2nd half when Burnley were giving it a go, and for a while our defence looked very suspect/shaky.

 

First half I thought our performance was about as good as it gets, and we looked good again last 10 minutes or so. I expected Puncheon to replace Guly at half-time, Guly was the 11th best player in the 1st half (11th best of a top performance) and I thought JP would add something even more. Guly was however much better in the 2nd half, conversely when most others dropped their high level of performance and on balance I think Guly had a good game.

 

Good to see Lallana back to his best, thought he was outstanding in the 1st half, and thats saying something wheneveryone was outstanding. I think the main difference yesterday compared to previous few home games, was that we came out and started at a high tempo again, much as we did at the start of the season. We never gave Burnley a chance to settle, and they did not get into our faces and stop our game. I also wonder whether we play better when kicking towards the Chapel, unsually we did this 1st half yesterday, whereas other games recently we have kicked towards the Chapel in the 2nd half after a poor performance in the 1st half. I would like to know whether we chose to change ends yesterday, or whether Burnley chose ends.

 

All in all good result, great first half, my main criticism is that I wish we had gone for the jugular a bit more 2nd half, I think we could have scored 5 or 6 yesterday but it seemed like we weren't too bothered about getting some more goals to excite the crowd and warm us up on a bitterly cold day.

[VectisSaint]

My only reservation is this: Why is it whenever the opposition have a corner we,for some unknown reason, bunch all of our players in our box? Yesterday, had Adkins left Billy on the centre line then Burnley would have to put two players somewhere near him. Time after time we defend corners and clear only for the ball to drop on the oppositions lone defender who hoofs it back in because we have no one waiting.

Good point, I was remarking about this during the game but forgot in my post. We should always have an outlet, it is basic stuff, time and again yesterday 11 in or around the box, no-one to relieve pressure and to keep oppo defenders busy.

[ooh it's a corner]

Ok then as the pro Guly case seems to rely more on perspiration, rather than any evidence of inspiration, I'll set out to describe in as balanced a way as I can why I'm so reluctant to join the 'Guly is Gods gift to wing play' Club.

 

1 - The primary role of a wide player is surly to penetrate the oppositions defence and provide quality service for our forwards to create chances from. Did he do much of that yesterday ? - I don't think so.

 

Fair play for answering the question posed to you yesterday, and given the points you have raised I can understand why there is so much of a distance between your opinion and others on here.

 

As a balancing view, as requested;

 

1. A right midfielder has too roles to play. One is attacking, and you're right that we didn't see Guly wip over many balls yesterday, in part because he was ably supported by his right back, who we did see wip over balls with some regularity yesterday, but it is Guly joining up with Richardson that allowed this to happen. The second role for a right midfielder is to help defend, to track movement from the opponents midfield and to provide cover for the full back. He did this very capably yesterday.

 

2. Once again, your comment that Guly covered no more ground than Lallana or Cork is right. However people weren't lauding Guly's athleticism, they were defending him against another's view that his performance was abysmal. Had someone posted that Cork was abysmal, people would have bought his ability to cover the turf into view.

 

3. Perhaps he could have been more agressive with his challenge with the 50/50 with their keeper, personally I thought the keeper was favourite to get there first. Other than that, I think you have to consider that with Sharp, Lambert and Lallana on the field it would be very easy to start looking like a 4-2-4 formation, if Guly pushes too far up the field.

 

4. Defensively, I think whoever plays in this position (Guly or SDR are perhaps two obvious examples), is potentially prone to switching off. Guly's defensive performance yesterday was faultless. He was always in the right place, happy to track back and happy to put his foot in. This isn't always the case, and it is easy to judge a player on previous games, rather than the last 90 minutes, but I don't think he could receive too much criticism for his defensive performance yesterday.

 

5. Racist bit. Nah I don't believe you're being judgemental in any way because of his race. It's an easy thing to throw out there, particularly in the light of recent media coverage of other teams/players, but I'm not seeing that here.

 

So, I accept people are entitled to their opinion, as I also posted on the Guly watch thread, I think 75% of the crowd gave him a standing ovation off (FWIW I didn't), but I still think it is one of the best shifts we've seen from Guly.

 

And let's face it, it'd be a boring forum if we all agreed with each other

Edited 12 February, 2012 by ooh it's a corner
typo

[Saint_clark]

To be fair for the first 15 minutes or so of the 2nd half yesterday they had a right to be saying this. We were very guilty of fannying around at the back and letting Burnley come on to us, and our defenders were guilty of some awful passing. There are times when pssession is very important and its good to see us playing it short and looking for openings, and there are other times when a better tactic is to boot the ball as far away from our goal as you possibly can. We were under pressure at the bginning of the 2nd half when Burnley were giving it a go, and for a while our defence looked very suspect/shaky.

 

 

 

Not sure about that. The defence was under pressure, yes, but it held firm. The measure of a defence is whether it can keep teams out when there is a period of pressure like that surely?

[batterseasaint]

What we saw from Guly yesterday was him responding to his critics who have said he is lazy, lackadaisical, inconsistent and unpredictable. He covered lots of ground in both defensive and attacking moves, his passing was crisp, and he played a major hand in dictating our pace of play in a game that we comfortably won. At times he looked to move the ball forward quickly to Frazer overlapping, but at other times he held back, helped to re-build across the back, and go again. What we perhaps lost in his attempts to prove his knockers wrong, was his unpreictsbility near goal. His ability to pull off something brilliant to either score himself or create for someone else was missing yesterday. Or maybe he was asked to do a job by Nigel, which he did with aplomb. He was taken off with ten minutes to go because firstly he had worked his socks off all game and secondly because it was time to bring Hammond on and close out the game. The suggestion i read earlier that he was taken off because Burnley had put us under pressure for 10 minutes at the beginning of the 2nd half and this was Nige's reaction to that is just laughable. Whoever that was, are you a regular at football? Do you have ANY understanding of the game at all? Hammond was brought on for Guly because it was job done. Our game plan had worked, Burnley were a spent force and we had them beat. So we switched to a more defensive formation to ensure they didn't find a lifeline. Guly was NOT taken off because he was seen as a liability instrumental in giving Burnley a way back into the game. You may have your opinions, and of course it is your right to express them, but there are situations when one opinion is more valid than others. Ie. When one opinion is completely wrong. Like yours is at the moment.

[View From The Top]

The fact that Corky Morris thought he had a good game speaks volumes as he's his biggest critic!

[um pahars]

Back to old ways yesterday. Very impressive against what has been a decent team in recent weeks. Seem to have rediscovered the confidence and composure that has been missing in recent games.

 

A host of good performances, with a few very impressive. Looked a strong team on paper before the game and they delivered. Strong bench as well (first time in ages) with Chaplow still to come.

 

Was thinking of a point at West Ham, but might be greedy and want three now, after finding our feet again.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Fair play for answering the question posed to you yesterday, and given the points you have raised I can understand why there is so much of a distance between your opinion and others on here.

 

As a balancing view, as requested;

 

1. A right midfielder has too roles to play. One is attacking, and you're right that we didn't see Guly wip over many balls yesterday, in part because he was ably supported by his right back, who we did see wip over balls with some regularity yesterday, but it is Guly joining up with Richardson that allowed this to happen. The second role for a right midfielder is to help defend, to track movement from the opponents midfield and to provide cover for the full back. He did this very capably yesterday.

 

2. Once again, your comment that Guly covered no more ground than Lallana or Cork is right. However people weren't lauding Guly's athleticism, they were defending him against another's view that his performance was abysmal. Had someone posted that Cork was abysmal, people would have bought his ability to cover the turf into view.

 

3. Perhaps he could have been more agressive with his challenge with the 50/50 with their keeper, personally I thought the keeper was favourite to get there first. Other than that, I think you have to consider that with Sharp, Lambert and Lallana on the field it would be very easy to start looking like a 4-2-4 formation, if Guly pushes too far up the field.

 

4. Defensively, I think whoever plays in this position (Guly or SDR are perhaps two obvious examples), is potentially prone to switching off. Guly's defensive performance yesterday was faultless. He was always in the right place, happy to track back and happy to put his foot in. This isn't always the case, and it is easy to judge a player on previous games, rather than the last 90 minutes, but I don't think he could receive too much criticism for his defensive performance yesterday.

 

5. Racist bit. Nah I don't believe you're being judgemental in any way because of his race. It's an easy thing to throw out there, particularly in the light of recent media coverage of other teams/players, but I'm not seeing that here.

 

So, I accept people are entitled to their opinion, as I also posted on the Guly watch thread, I think 75% of the crowd gave him a standing ovation off (FWIW I didn't), but I still think it is one of the best shifts we've seen from Guly.

 

And let's face it, it'd be a boring forum if we all agreed with each other

 

Thanks for this thoughtful reply, I shall consider the points you raise carefully.

[Jonnyboy]

Looks like Guly can't win, constantly criticised for appearing lazy, the next week criticised for running around too much.

[VectisSaint]

Not sure about that. The defence was under pressure, yes, but it held firm. The measure of a defence is whether it can keep teams out when there is a period of pressure like that surely?

The defence I was watching at close quarters yesterday was very shaky for a few minutes early in the second half against a team with virtually no attacking menace (glad we did not sign J-Rod on that performance). Stood firm? Don't think so, forgot what they were doing for a while and looked panicky (sp?). But not trying to be too critical, just saying that for a while we were bringing trouble onto ourselves for no good reason.

[Neil]

Very impressive. I think everyone had at least a good game and several were outstanding.

 

First time in a little while we haven't been outmuscled, and I think we actually outmuscled Burnley, something which does bode well for Tuesday's trip.

 

Providing we can deal with the hoof balls and crosses into the box, we should be able to get a win on Tuesday and really put down a marker.

[eurosaint]

Ok then as the pro Guly case seems to rely more on perspiration, rather than any evidence of inspiration, I'll set out to describe in as balanced a way as I can why I'm so reluctant to join the 'Guly is Gods gift to wing play' Club.

 

1 - The primary role of a wide player is surly to penetrate the oppositions defence and provide quality service for our forwards to create chances from. Did he do much of that yesterday ? - I don't think so.

2 - Some seem very impressed by his athleticism - and to be fair he is quite athletic - but does he alone in our team exhibit that quality ? I say other players (such as Jack Cork or Adam Lallana for instance) cover as much (if not more) ground as Guly do Prado does for the entire match not just 70 or 80 minutes, but for some reason this goes almost without comment in comparison. Could this be because it is expected from them as a right almost, but seen as a unexpected bonus from a Brazilian born player for some inexplicable reason ?

3 - As a sometime striker how did he do in front of goal ? The only significant chance he had came near the end of the first half when he bottled out of a 50/50 chance with Burnley's keeper. For a attacking player who apparently had such a great game yesterday the fact that he played no decisive role in either of our goals is noteworthy.

4 - How about his defensive play then ? Compared to a real quality quality midfielder (like Adam Lallana) his positional sense seems poor and as the Pompey game showed he cannot be depended upon in a critical situation - not if it means he might get hurt in the process anyway. But the massed ranks of his fan club can feel free to point out any crucial contribution I may have missed.

5 - I see some seem to think I have some sinister (racist ?) agenda against this player. Well my posting history is a matter of record just like everyone else's on here. So those who may care to stoop that low should provide some actual evidence to prove their case or shut up about it - or rather they need not bother because the record shows I've championed the cause of many black players on here over the years, such as Stern John, Michail Antonio, Joussef Safri ... etc ... etc ... etc

 

 

I hope the above is a sufficiently detailed critique that matches your high standards - please be so kind as to respond in kind. Those 'erudite' fans on the other hand who would like me to "ferk off" instead of expressing my view (as I see fit to do so) are likely to remain in a state of constant disappointment I'm afraid, because until such time as the Mods ban free speech on here I shall continue to have my say regardless of whether they happen to like it, or not.

 

Did you miss his pass to Richardson who crossed for Lallana to score then ?

Sure it wasn't a fifty yard crossfield volley, but it was clean, precise and well weighted, exactly what was needed at that time !

I realise that this is all about opinions but your sentence (highlighted above) just cannot be right !!

[Charlie Wayman]

Excellent win and performance and about time too. We should have scored 5 and upped the ante on goal diference.

 

Sat 3.00pm ko has to be a relevant factor, let's face it our bodies work with the daylight and at 7.45pm most of us are knackered and ready for a bit of shut eye no matter what time you get up and how little you do all day.

 

Footballers are no different to you or me.

 

It can't just apply to just Saints 'though, it must be true for all clubs so the early successful teams become the poor sods who get spotified by Sky and handicapped as a result. This may explain why mid table sides often make a late and succesful run to the play-offs as they get no attention from the media until right at the end?

[dronskisaint]

Ok then as the pro Guly case seems to rely more on perspiration, rather than any evidence of inspiration, I'll set out to describe in as balanced a way as I can why I'm so reluctant to join the 'Guly is Gods gift to wing play' Club.

 

1 - The primary role of a wide player is surly to penetrate the oppositions defence and provide quality service for our forwards to create chances from. Did he do much of that yesterday ? - I don't think so.

2 - Some seem very impressed by his athleticism - and to be fair he is quite athletic - but does he alone in our team exhibit that quality ? I say other players (such as Jack Cork or Adam Lallana for instance) cover as much (if not more) ground as Guly do Prado does for the entire match not just 70 or 80 minutes, but for some reason this goes almost without comment in comparison. Could this be because it is expected from them as a right almost, but seen as a unexpected bonus from a Brazilian born player for some inexplicable reason ?

3 - As a sometime striker how did he do in front of goal ? The only significant chance he had came near the end of the first half when he bottled out of a 50/50 chance with Burnley's keeper. For a attacking player who apparently had such a great game yesterday the fact that he played no decisive role in either of our goals is noteworthy.

4 - How about his defensive play then ? Compared to a real quality quality midfielder (like Adam Lallana) his positional sense seems poor and as the Pompey game showed he cannot be depended upon in a critical situation - not if it means he might get hurt in the process anyway. But the massed ranks of his fan club can feel free to point out any crucial contribution I may have missed.

5 - I see some seem to think I have some sinister (racist ?) agenda against this player. Well my posting history is a matter of record just like everyone else's on here. So those who may care to stoop that low should provide some actual evidence to prove their case or shut up about it - or rather they need not bother because the record shows I've championed the cause of many black players on here over the years, such as Stern John, Michail Antonio, Joussef Safri ... etc ... etc ... etc

 

 

I hope the above is a sufficiently detailed critique that matches your high standards - please be so kind as to respond in kind. Those 'erudite' fans on the other hand who would like me to "ferk off" instead of expressing my view (as I see fit to do so) are likely to remain in a state of constant disappointment I'm afraid, because until such time as the Mods ban free speech on here I shall continue to have my say regardless of whether they happen to like it, or not.

 

 

Of course you have the right to state your opinion, seek attention and dig yourself deeper in to a hole instead of putting down the shovel.

 

Thank you for proving it still further

[Cumbria Saint]

Highlights:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zhnmo9v2Qw&feature=youtu.be

 

I don't think anyone else has put them up yet

 

Good Lord. Stop the highlights at 0.10 just as the teams come out and there is one of our nuns standing between the two teams. However did she get in there? I guess that explains yesterday's 'divine' performance!

[Leicestersaint]

Enjoyed it - but we should have scored at least 2 or 3 more goals! Outstanding performances from Lallana and Lambert and Hooifeld.

[Leicestersaint]

Wrote a write-up of the day for anybody interested:

 

http://notplayedonpaper.blogspot.com/2012/02/nigels-big-day.html

 

A very nice report - the only downside was that we should have scored 2 or 3 more goals! Not a perfect performance but much improved fluent and flowing football. Agree with what you say about AL, RL and big JH.

[Super_Saint]

Anybody know if there will be a stream for this? possibly al jazeera or one of them.

[Lallana's Left Peg]

When was the last time we had a player who divided opinion as much as Guly? From my perspective I think he is a good player who is inconsistent. But his inconsistency doesn't make him a bad player by any means. It is clear he is talented, and perhaps that is why people expect more from him all the time. His inconsistency isn't through lack of effort, it is just how he is as a player. Most clubs have players like Guly. He'll have bad games, and he'll have great games, and we won't have a clue what sort of mood he is in until the game itself.

 

For me I like him on the right as he has forged an unlikely but very effective partnership with Richardson. Positionally he is quite adaptable but in terms of how he can receive the ball he's quite particular. It's a limitation and when he doesn't get it in that way he struggles. But it isn't a lack of effort, it is just how he is as a player.

 

I like having unpredictable players. Sometimes it frustrates but you can't be one dimensional as a team. The element of unpredictability can be important, and Guly has helped us far more in his 18+ months with us than he has hindered. For a signing of around £1m, he has scored important goals and significantly contributed.

[Super_Saint]

ah ignore my last post, wrong thread obviously!

[Chez]

the promotion campaign is back on track. With a fully fit squad we look like a different side. When Fonte is the worst distributor of the ball you know the side is playing well. Davis had one simple shot to save all game. There was a five minute period when several crosses cam in but our defence was solid and held firm. Going forward we looked much more dangerous, but the early goal was key. Very pleased with the display. Everyone played well, some excellently.

Davis 7 came and caught well, kicked well and threw out well too, good choices, a million miles better than Bart, but actually nothing much to do so I'll give him a 7.

Richardson 8 solid in defence and at last a decent cross. Perhaps he just has too much time, but when under pressure the cross was perfect. Linked up well with Guly (Bridge/Marsden style)

Jos Outstanding 9

Fonte 7 one or two passes weren't great, and a few poor choices, but defensively strong

Fox 7 kept it shorter, especially in the first half when playing in front of Adkins. Much better delivery from set pieces too. It was one of those games when we got our act together in all departments

Lallana 9 Back to where he was at the start of the season. Ran them ragged, strong and much much quicker. What a difference that makes to the side.

Cork 7 competed ever so well as usual and the middle was largely ours

Morgan 7 solid game again, neat and tidy as always, just the odd loose pass early on, but with Cork forming a decent partnership

Guly 7 linked up well with Richardson, didn't run with the ball, but kept it simple and passing was good. Worked hard and kept their winger quiet enough

Lambert 10 outstanding. Won everything in the air and never gave it away once. Link up play first class and just missed the goal to cap a wonderful display

Sharp 7 very bright and looked dangerous. Decent touch and just enough movement. Looks slow and work rate isn't the highest, but he just has more quality than Barnard and Lee. Thought he tired early, which was surprising, but did more than enough ti encourage me that he will score shed loads of goals for us

 

Connelly 7 we were going long and the ball wasn't sticking. Adkins made the perfect substitution bringing on Connelly to link the play better. He did exactly that and we took charge again. Perfect player for the situation. Yes he is slow and lightweight, but his movement and willingness to drop deep changed the game. A few on here have slated him, hopefully they will have seen what he did and cut him a little slack.

Hammond 7 tough not getting a starting spot after a great game on Tuesday, played well when he came on

Lee couple of minutes at the end, showed the same drive as Tuesday.

 

Oh, can we kick towards the Chapel first half in every game?

Edited 12 February, 2012 by Chez

[Graffito]

Ok then as the pro Guly case seems to rely more on perspiration, rather than any evidence of inspiration, I'll set out to describe in as balanced a way as I can why I'm so reluctant to join the 'Guly is Gods gift to wing play' Club.

 

1 - The primary role of a wide player is surly to penetrate the oppositions defence and provide quality service for our forwards to create chances from. Did he do much of that yesterday ? - I don't think so.

2 - Some seem very impressed by his athleticism - and to be fair he is quite athletic - but does he alone in our team exhibit that quality ? I say other players (such as Jack Cork or Adam Lallana for instance) cover as much (if not more) ground as Guly do Prado does for the entire match not just 70 or 80 minutes, but for some reason this goes almost without comment in comparison. Could this be because it is expected from them as a right almost, but seen as a unexpected bonus from a Brazilian born player for some inexplicable reason ?

3 - As a sometime striker how did he do in front of goal ? The only significant chance he had came near the end of the first half when he bottled out of a 50/50 chance with Burnley's keeper. For a attacking player who apparently had such a great game yesterday the fact that he played no decisive role in either of our goals is noteworthy.

4 - How about his defensive play then ? Compared to a real quality quality midfielder (like Adam Lallana) his positional sense seems poor and as the Pompey game showed he cannot be depended upon in a critical situation - not if it means he might get hurt in the process anyway. But the massed ranks of his fan club can feel free to point out any crucial contribution I may have missed.

5 - I see some seem to think I have some sinister (racist ?) agenda against this player. Well my posting history is a matter of record just like everyone else's on here. So those who may care to stoop that low should provide some actual evidence to prove their case or shut up about it - or rather they need not bother because the record shows I've championed the cause of many black players on here over the years, such as Stern John, Michail Antonio, Joussef Safri ... etc ... etc ... etc

 

 

I hope the above is a sufficiently detailed critique that matches your high standards - please be so kind as to respond in kind. Those 'erudite' fans on the other hand who would like me to "ferk off" instead of expressing my view (as I see fit to do so) are likely to remain in a state of constant disappointment I'm afraid, because until such time as the Mods ban free speech on here I shall continue to have my say regardless of whether they happen to like it, or not.

 

This from the report on the Claret's Mad website:

 

"We were only in the eighth minute of the game when the Saints marched into the lead. It was no surprise to see Guly Do Prado involved. He turned in as good an individual performance yesterday as I've seen from a player all season in the Championship."

 

Secondly let's nail this assertion that Guly was responsible for Skate's equaliser. Granted he might have been more decisive in either staying on the post or attacking the ball but the reason their player had the opportunity was because he was unmarked. The reason their player was unmarked is because our favourite midfield player Adam Lallana wandered off and left Fonte (I think Fonte) with two players to mark, one of them the goalscorer.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Did you miss his pass to Richardson who crossed for Lallana to score then ?

Sure it wasn't a fifty yard crossfield volley, but it was clean, precise and well weighted, exactly what was needed at that time !

I realise that this is all about opinions but your sentence (highlighted above) just cannot be right !!

 

Not at all.

 

Well done to him for getting into the right position I suppose, but I witnessed (and what TV evidence conclusively shows) a eminently simple 'bread & butter' pass to Richardson that any non league player could have delivered with ease. If we are to prepared to take something like that as evidence of greatness, then we all better put our boots back on.

 

Now if we are to discuss what Frazer Richardson subsequently did with that simple pass then that was indeed something special. This is the problem with overpraising mediocrity - real ability is in danger of becoming both overlooked and devalued.

[dronskisaint]

Not at all.

 

Well done to him for getting into the right position I suppose, but I witnessed (and what TV evidence conclusively shows) a eminently simple 'bread & butter' pass to Richardson that any non league player could have delivered with ease. If we are to prepared to take something like that as evidence of greatness, then we all better put our boots back on.

 

Now if we are to discuss what Frazer Richardson subsequently did with that simple pass then that was indeed something special. This is the problem with overpraising mediocrity - real ability is in danger of becoming both overlooked and devalued.

 

Having viewed the 'all angles' coverage on Saints Player this afternoon it really does confirm my impression from Block 38 that Guly was involved in most of the good things that they showed us doing.

 

The problem with having an agenda is that you tend to see whatever it is you want to see to the exclusion of what is evident to others without the said agenda.

[Leicestersaint]

Too much squabbling about Guly on here and not enough appreciation of a fine performance by the whole team.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

This from the report on the Claret's Mad website:

 

"We were only in the eighth minute of the game when the Saints marched into the lead. It was no surprise to see Guly Do Prado involved. He turned in as good an individual performance yesterday as I've seen from a player all season in the Championship."

 

Secondly let's nail this assertion that Guly was responsible for Skate's equaliser. Granted he might have been more decisive in either staying on the post or attacking the ball but the reason their player had the opportunity was because he was unmarked. The reason their player was unmarked is because our favourite midfield player Adam Lallana wandered off and left Fonte (I think Fonte) with two players to mark, one of them the goalscorer.

 

Let me get this right. My opinion - the opinion of a complete stranger - is a matter so very important to you that you are prepared to spend precious spare time trawling the internet looking for support for your viewpoint ? This seems to me a bit of a overreaction to put it mildly.

 

Again for the last time.

Although I always take note of differing opinions, I always post what is my own personal view rather than just parrot the opinions of others. If the Duke of Edinburgh were to have flown into St Marys in a helicopter at half time & personally presented Guly do Pardo with the Queens Award for Industry, that would have been great fun, but it would not have altered what my opinion of his performance was one iota.

 

I can make this no clearer.

[sperm_john]

tbh i dontmind guly but thought he was average at best yesterday, thought morgan was cr4p and punch should have come on for him ... sharp looked class

[View From The Top]

 

I can make this no clearer.

 

I can make this no clearer. Your agenda has blinkered your view to the extent that you continue to make yourself look a total cock.

 

Clear enough for you?

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

Having viewed the 'all angles' coverage on Saints Player this afternoon it really does confirm my impression from Block 38 that Guly was involved in most of the good things that they showed us doing.

 

The problem with having an agenda is that you tend to see whatever it is you want to see to the exclusion of what is evident to others without the said agenda.

 

Ah the 'agenda' raises its ugly head again.

 

I can't imagine what my agenda is supposed to be, so why don't you tell me what you think it is and then I can issue the appropriate response.

[Um Bongo]

Interesting to hear Stuart Pearce was at St.Marys yesterday watching....

[krissyboy31]

Interesting to hear Stuart Pearce was at St.Marys yesterday watching....

Bad news if he's looking at AL and Corky for the olympic team.

[Pugwash]

Interesting to hear Stuart Pearce was at St.Marys yesterday watching....

Lot of decent young English players on show. Picture of him on the OS gallery.

 

Lambert MoM for me, Lallana, Hooiveld, Richardson class. Morgan wasn't crap, in fact he bossed the midfield, very strong in the tackle, passed well. Thought Cork worked well and covered a lo of ground, but a bit lightweight in challenges. Overall excellent performance, most importantly the team looks to have belief in itself again.

[krissyboy31]

Lallana was MOM for me but just how good is Rickie Lambert. When we first signed him I knew we were signing a top goal scoring centre forward for League 1 but I never thought he would turn out to be the player he is now.

[Lighthouse]

Bad news if he's looking at AL and Corky for the olympic team.

 

Stuff that, he was looking at Rickie Lambert to take to Ukraine.

[S-Clarke]

just how good is Rickie Lambert. When we first signed him I knew we were signing a top goal scoring centre forward for League 1 but I never thought he would turn out to be the player he is now.

 

He's just a terrific all round football player. You can tell why he started out as an AMC, as his touch and eye for a pass is sublime. But he has also come on leaps and bounds since he joined us, and IMO he's now easily a premier league quality centre forward. Have a look at some of the dross that's managed to score at that level, and then see the quality and technique of Lambert - he should have fun in that league.

 

Alot of comparisons are made between him and Grant Holt, which is fair in some ways, but I think Lambo is so much more superior in every area of his game. We're lucky to have him, he's a very special centre forward.

[CanadaSaint]

Alot of comparisons are made between him and Grant Holt, which is fair in some ways, but I think Lambo is so much more superior in every area of his game. We're lucky to have him, he's a very special centre forward.

 

I think Lambert has far more dimensions to his game. The comparison is very flattering to Holt.

[Verbal]

Your agenda has blinkered your view to the extent that you continue to make yourself look a total cock.

 

Might you have the causal relationship the wrong way around?

[Verbal]

Alot of comparisons are made between him and Grant Holt, which is fair in some ways, but I think Lambo is so much more superior in every area of his game. We're lucky to have him, he's a very special centre forward.

 

Some interesting mutterings on the Arsenal forums, comparing Chamakh and RL. Guess who comes out on top?

[S-Clarke]

Some interesting mutterings on the Arsenal forums, comparing Chamakh and RL. Guess who comes out on top?

 

Lambert I'd guess. Link? would be interesting to read.

[Verbal]

Lambert I'd guess. Link? would be interesting to read.

 

Mysonthearsenalfan mentioned it. I'll ask him.