Have we been found out

[BadgerBadger]

Seems to me that prior to Doncaster no team knew how to handle us at our place, since they did us at home it looks like we've been found out and we've struggled to adjust.

Prior to Donnie, any team coming to us and deciding to have a go got torn a new one, hence our goal difference, but of late it seems that any team doing just that have left with the points.

Interesting how the relaxed 'Barcelona-esque' footy of the early part of the season is now a little muted (and sometimes teams have produced that against us), is it confidence or teams have worked us out and Adkins is struggling for a solution?

 

NOTE this is not a manager/team bashing negative attack or a happy clappers versus doom mongers thread but an objective analysis of the turn around

[Nadia Sllim]

I think the "majority" of players and fans alike thought we were home and dry! But it is a funny old game!

[farawaysaint]

Yes, they have. I believe that Adkins is more than capable of adapting and am really excited with the new recruits I expect us to not lose many more this season

[isking]

Doncaster don't come to us until March.

I assume your argument is based on away form.

[S-Clarke]

I think more and more teams are implementing successful game plans against us, which not only nullify our strengths worryingly easily, but also attack our weaknesses with great results for them.

 

We need to have a bit more variation and I have to say the return of Puncheon has given that extra variation from the middle of the park - and even the runs of Lee give us something slightly different. When we had the 3 CM's together we were way too predicable and were food and drink for oppo managers.

 

You've always got to carry on evolving and we'd never carry on winning as we were. All teams have to do now is get close, tight, don't let us pass from the back, close down our fall backs quickly. - then most of our penetration is gone.

[kpturner]

Seems to me that prior to Doncaster no team knew how to handle us at our place

Have you watched us play much this season?

[saintoaks]

I think Reading did a good job of finding us out, however, in Atkins we trust..starting at home against Burnley on Saturday. COYS.

[COMEONYOUREDS]

I think Reading did a good job of finding us out, however, in Atkins we trust..starting at home against Burnley on Saturday. COYS.

 

His name is Adkins

[saintoaks]

His name is Adkins

 

Just testing ya..

[kpturner]

"....other teams have worked us out" is such a tedious football cliche. Next you will be saying that our fullbacks must "get to the byline" Yawn

[alpine_saint]

Yes

Doesnt mean we cannot change. Time for NA to earn his crust.

[saintbob40]

We have had a lean spell as we have tried to work out how to replace Chaplow on the right. We now have Chaplow back and Punch so that problem is solved. Plus Lallana is back to form and RL has served his three match ban.

 

Onwards and upwards.......Southampton 3 Burnley 0, West Ham 1 Southampton 2 etc,etc. Let normal service resume.

[Noodles34]

Seems to me that prior to Doncaster no team knew how to handle us at our place, since they did us at home it looks like we've been found out and we've struggled to adjust.

Prior to Donnie, any team coming to us and deciding to have a go got torn a new one, hence our goal difference, but of late it seems that any team doing just that have left with the points.

Interesting how the relaxed 'Barcelona-esque' footy of the early part of the season is now a little muted (and sometimes teams have produced that against us), is it confidence or teams have worked us out and Adkins is struggling for a solution?

 

NOTE this is not a manager/team bashing negative attack or a happy clappers versus doom mongers thread but an objective analysis of the turn around

 

yes

[wild-saint]

Tactics are important but ultimately a player needs to the intelligence and skill to be able to perfom those tactics.

 

Easy for people to say "yes" we have been found out but please give me some detail on what they would do to change it?

[This Charming Man]

Of course teams have 'worked us out'. Any professional manager that does some research can work another team out. It's not rocket science.

 

Teams that work hard against us and close us down quickly do well against us - Bristol, Cardiff, Leicester for example. That's because we're so slow at passing the ball and have little to no pace in the side (hopefully that will change with Puncheon and Sharp now in the side). So frustrating at times to watch us knock 10 passes around before it get's to the man it should've gone to 9 passes ago. It's all well and good playing like that when you're in the lead but we play like that when chasing the game. We need to be a bit more direct at times.

 

People say they trust in Adkins to adapt but I haven't seen us adapt our style of play once this season, no matter what position we're in. As Arsenal have found, putting together hundreds of neat little passes will only get you so far. You need to over a little bit more than that at times, especially in a league like this.

[Orange]

Adkins out

[buctootim]

So frustrating at times to watch us knock 10 passes around before it get's to the man it should've gone to 9 passes ago. It's all well and good playing like that when you're in the lead but we play like that when chasing the game. We need to be a bit more direct at times.

 

Tbh I think you aren't understanding the tactics - which is to pass it around, pull the opposition of of shape / pull their players out of postion and have our forwards run into the space created.

 

That worked brilliantly for us. Its stopped working not because the tactics are wrong but because we have stopped passing quickly and moving. The answer isnt to go more direct but to get back the snappiness we had before.

[Tom28]

Of course teams have 'worked us out'. Any professional manager that does some research can work another team out. It's not rocket science.

 

Teams that work hard against us and close us down quickly do well against us - Bristol, Cardiff, Leicester for example. That's because we're so slow at passing the ball and have little to no pace in the side (hopefully that will change with Puncheon and Sharp now in the side). So frustrating at times to watch us knock 10 passes around before it get's to the man it should've gone to 9 passes ago. It's all well and good playing like that when you're in the lead but we play like that when chasing the game. We need to be a bit more direct at times.

 

People say they trust in Adkins to adapt but I haven't seen us adapt our style of play once this season, no matter what position we're in. As Arsenal have found, putting together hundreds of neat little passes will only get you so far. You need to over a little bit more than that at times, especially in a league like this.

 

I don't think lack of pace in the side is the issue. Teams pass the ball about not for the sake of it, but to draw other teams out of position. There was a really good piece of analysis on MOTD the other week looking at how Swansea appear to be passing the ball for the sake of passing, but what they actually do is draw teams forward onto them, which leaves holes in behind, and they have been very good at a) not panicking in possession and b) timing it right to penetrate forward. I think we were doing those things very well earlier in the season, but teams are now hunting in packs and closing us down better. We've started panicking on the ball which has meant firing balls forward more often and at the wrong times. Fox in particular has been getting a lot of stick on the forums and in the stands for doing that, but it's because he's often put under pressure very quickly by two players and his short passing options are being snuffed out, so he has no option but to hit the channels.

 

So yes, I do think we've been found out, but I think the solution is simple. Players need to work harder off the ball to get open for the short passing option, and the player in possession needs to relax on the ball a bit more, and as fans we'll need to accept that occasionally that may result in the likes of Fox and Richardson especially getting caught in possession.

[This Charming Man]

Tbh I think you aren't understanding the tactics - which is to pass it around, pull the opposition of of shape / pull their players out of postion and have our forwards run into the space created.

 

That worked brilliantly for us. Its stopped working not because the tactics are wrong but because we have stopped passing quickly and moving. The answer isnt to go more direct but to get back the snappiness we had before.

 

I fully understand the reasons behind it thanks, hence why we always look to play it out from the back as well. Like I said though, when teams press us, work hard and don't give us that space we're trying to create, we struggle. That's when we should be looking to go more direct and mix it up a bit more.

 

Unless you're of the standard of Barcelona (which despite what some people think, we're not) it's very easy to defend against a slow passing team. Keep your shape and you won't go too far wrong. That's why we need that bit of a pace and something a bit different to open a team up which Lallana gave us at the beginning of the season when he was bang in form. We need to be able to slide a through ball through every now and then, have the strikers playing on the defenders shoulder, give them something else to worry about from time to time. Most defences know that they can keep a flat back four against us, we'll knock it about a bit and their midfielder's will drop back and fill the gaps in.

 

I'm hoping now that Puncheon and Sharp will change this. They are exactly what we've been craving the last couple of months. Puncheon played a nice through ball the other day against Cardiff but nobody picked it. I tried to think the last time I saw one of our players do something like that, we're just too predictable in our build up play at times.

 

Just to clarify, I don't want to seem like I'm having a moan for the sake of it but there is no denying that we set a very high standard at the beginning of the season and we haven't come close to replicating that in recent months. I'm delighted with this season and it couldn't have gone much better, though that doesn't mean we're not allowed to voice our opinions.

[Cestrian Saint]

I said this back in November. Not knocking the team or the manager but we ain't going up.

[Jack]

We have 3 tough games in 8 days coming up. I believe we will know whether we are automatic promotion contenders or not after these.

 

I'm optimistic. Our squad is stronger than at the beginning of the season. Recently we've had a lot of disruption due to injury and suspension, and had some bad luck too. Now nearly everyone is back fit, and those who are returning will quickly get back to match fitness, and we'll start playing well and getting the results we need.

 

I think we'll pick up 7 points from Burnely, West Ham and Derby. That would definitely get our season back on track.

[Window Cleaner]

Our front line has been shut down.

 

Before Bristol City away 40 goals in 17 games

Since 11 goals in 12 games

Before Bristol City 5 penalties,after Bristol city 1 penalty. Looks like they've all caught on to that as well.

this is all you need to know.

Edited 9 February, 2012 by Window Cleaner

[Appy]

Yes

Doesnt mean we cannot change. Time for NA to earn his crust.

 

Can you tell that from all the games you watch?

 

But seriously, yes i think we have been, especially up front.

 

We have lots of options now compared to December time.

 

It will click in one game soon, hopefully Burnley or West Ham.

[Big_Bald_Si]

For me, I thought we were found out when we played Millwall at home in the league. We were very fortunate to win 1-0 (great pass from Cork for Guly's goal), but they pressed us all game and I thought they made us look foolish.

 

Teams that press us put us off our stride and we panic. If a team sits back, that's when we're at our best.

 

Need to learn how to beat teams that decide to press us all over the field.

[alpine_saint]

For me, I thought we were found out when we played Millwall at home in the league. We were very fortunate to win 1-0 (great pass from Cork for Guly's goal), but they pressed us all game and I thought they made us look foolish.

 

Teams that press us put us off our stride and we panic. If a team sits back, that's when we're at our best.

 

Need to learn how to beat teams that decide to press us all over the field.

 

I was at that game, and I agree with you completely.

 

Austin is going to be a f**king nightmare on Saturday.

[Saint Fan CaM]

This. Absolutely spot b0ll0ck on assessment and explanation of what needs to happen. I would argue we have the players to do it, but do we have the players to do it for a full 90mins+? Consistency will need to be high on the agenda too - having injury and suspension does nothing to improve the situation.

[Gordon Mockles]

Seems to me that prior to Doncaster no team knew how to handle us at our place, since they did us at home it looks like we've been found out and we've struggled to adjust.

Prior to Donnie, any team coming to us and deciding to have a go got torn a new one, hence our goal difference, but of late it seems that any team doing just that have left with the points.

Interesting how the relaxed 'Barcelona-esque' footy of the early part of the season is now a little muted (and sometimes teams have produced that against us), is it confidence or teams have worked us out and Adkins is struggling for a solution?

 

NOTE this is not a manager/team bashing negative attack or a happy clappers versus doom mongers thread but an objective analysis of the turn around

 

It's a good and interesting point which I have to say is a view point I share. I think we did play superb in the first half of the season but I was under no illusion we could not maintain it throughout the season, as Brighton could not (and we ended up soooooo close to winning League One) last year. I also felt we may have been over achieving and the drastic dip in form displays that. Saying that, I thought we played well at Brum despite some views and the shot ratio. We definitely need to penetrate more and work on the final third of the pitch, a common issue over the years.

 

I like Adkins but I am still in judgement as to his tactical prowess. I think we have been sussed out to a degree but on our day, our passing and movement and ability for goals can be very encouraging and the bulk of the squad are a decent Championship outfit but still, despite remaining top for a prolonged period, far from a team able to compete effectively in the PL. Whilst it was refreshing to hear an honest and sincere, personable Adkins, on Solent Tues night (unlike the usual mantra of no meaning and clichéd encouragement - far from his lips Tuesday!), it was also a dramatic shift to his usual style. This could be down to disappointment, pressure from within the club, pressure from himself for personal standards or just ground down frustration for having his best tactics fail and having the team let him down. Only Nigel knows but I am conscious, without wanting to over egg an observation as we will hit form again and get 3 points Saturday, that Nigel has been criticising officials recently which is unlike him, as is bemoaning players with his "I praise them enough normally" comment followed by a criticism. He seems worried and anxious. I am hoping more from heart felt disappointment and sustained form loss (which is over, players are back, new players in, we will start winning again) rather than the inner wranglings of your stereotypical football club. After all, it has been a crap winter for us - plagued with injuries, red cards and bizarre decisions from officials and luck in general has not been our friend. 3 points Saturday and these words will matter little. COYS

Edited 9 February, 2012 by Gordon Mockles
typo

[Saint Fan CaM]

I don't think lack of pace in the side is the issue. Teams pass the ball about not for the sake of it, but to draw other teams out of position. There was a really good piece of analysis on MOTD the other week looking at how Swansea appear to be passing the ball for the sake of passing, but what they actually do is draw teams forward onto them, which leaves holes in behind, and they have been very good at a) not panicking in possession and b) timing it right to penetrate forward. I think we were doing those things very well earlier in the season, but teams are now hunting in packs and closing us down better. We've started panicking on the ball which has meant firing balls forward more often and at the wrong times. Fox in particular has been getting a lot of stick on the forums and in the stands for doing that, but it's because he's often put under pressure very quickly by two players and his short passing options are being snuffed out, so he has no option but to hit the channels. So yes, I do think we've been found out, but I think the solution is simple. Players need to work harder off the ball to get open for the short passing option, and the player in possession needs to relax on the ball a bit more, and as fans we'll need to accept that occasionally that may result in the likes of Fox and Richardson especially getting caught in possession.

This. Absolutely spot b0ll0ck on assessment and explanation of what needs to happen. I would argue we have the players to do it, but do we have the players to do it for a full 90mins+? Consistency will need to be high on the agenda too - having injury and suspension does nothing to improve the situation.

[Turkish]

Tbh I think you aren't understanding the tactics - which is to pass it around, pull the opposition of of shape / pull their players out of postion and have our forwards run into the space created.

 

That worked brilliantly for us. Its stopped working not because the tactics are wrong but because we have stopped passing quickly and moving. The answer isnt to go more direct but to get back the snappiness we had before.

 

TBH i think it's you that isn't understanding the tactic. It's all well and good doing that when a team has to open up, we were fortunate early in the season that we scored a lot of early goals, hence we went onto steam roller teams. We were also a surprise packet so teams didn't expect us to pass it as well as we did. When a team sits back and holds it's shape it's not easy to pass through them no matter how good they are. Caridff, Bristol City and Leciester all held a shape and didn't let us pass it round them. It's at times like this we need to be more direct and sharper, both in movement of the ball and of players. How many times do we over play it, take a touch too many or one pass to many rather than having a shot or cross? It's all very well playing posession football but only good if there's an end product and a bit of penetration.

[Gordon Mockles]

I don't think lack of pace in the side is the issue. Teams pass the ball about not for the sake of it, but to draw other teams out of position. There was a really good piece of analysis on MOTD the other week looking at how Swansea appear to be passing the ball for the sake of passing, but what they actually do is draw teams forward onto them, which leaves holes in behind, and they have been very good at a) not panicking in possession and b) timing it right to penetrate forward. I think we were doing those things very well earlier in the season, but teams are now hunting in packs and closing us down better. We've started panicking on the ball which has meant firing balls forward more often and at the wrong times. Fox in particular has been getting a lot of stick on the forums and in the stands for doing that, but it's because he's often put under pressure very quickly by two players and his short passing options are being snuffed out, so he has no option but to hit the channels.

 

So yes, I do think we've been found out, but I think the solution is simple. Players need to work harder off the ball to get open for the short passing option, and the player in possession needs to relax on the ball a bit more, and as fans we'll need to accept that occasionally that may result in the likes of Fox and Richardson especially getting caught in possession.

 

In total agreement. The injuries have perpetuated the situation but we are definitely prevented from playing the way we did earlier in the season which tests the metal of the manager and so far, an adequate contra tactic has not proved effective. Being fair, injuries have no helped so we must reserve judgment.....and support the team and do NOT f*ckin BOOOOO!!! It's embarrassing and opposition fans must think "SPOILT W**KERS" with fans berating a team in our position. Sense of perspective.

[buctootim]

TBH i think it's you that isn't understanding the tactic. It's all well and good doing that when a team has to open up, we were fortunate early in the season that we scored a lot of early goals, hence we went onto steam roller teams. We were also a surprise packet so teams didn't expect us to pass it as well as we did. When a team sits back and holds it's shape it's not easy to pass through them no matter how good they are. Caridff, Bristol City and Leciester all held a shape and didn't let us pass it round them. It's at times like this we need to be more direct and sharper, both in movement of the ball and of players. How many times do we over play it, take a touch too many or one pass to many rather than having a shot or cross? It's all very well playing posession football but only good if there's an end product and a bit of penetration.

 

Fair point, you cant pull teams out of shape if they have good discipline refuse to be drawn. But Im failing to see how being more direct helps in anyway, especially with the problem of teams sitting back. You might end up with more attempts on goal, but also lose possession and open yourselves up more.

[This Charming Man]

Fair point, you cant pull teams out of shape if they have good discipline refuse to be drawn. But Im failing to see how being more direct helps in anyway, especially with the problem of teams sitting back. You might end up with more attempts on goal, but also lose possession and open yourselves up more.

 

Goals win matches, not possession.

[buctootim]

Goals win matches, not possession.

 

You dont get more points if they end up 3-3 instead of 1-1.

[This Charming Man]

You dont get more points if they end up 3-3 instead of 1-1.

 

But you do if you win 4-3...

 

ADKINS OUT. KEEGAN IN.

[Lord Duckhunter]

I dont think it's a question of "being found out" but a combination of a few factors. One is luck, we played Brum at the right time, seemed to get a few Pens and against Millwall & Forest could easily of drawn. Another factor is sides played well, Leicester have good players and will turn out good performances every so often, we were on the receiving end of one of them. Bristol defended really well, that was another. The main reason is key players missing. I'm convinced we would have beaten Blackpool with Kelvin in goal, we've also missed Chappers, who was a key man in our system. Fonte and Jos haven't played together lately, Lallana's missed a couple of home games and Rickey onviously missed the Leicester game.

 

Unless you get really lucky the sides that cope with injuries the best will go up. Our squad looks better set up to cope now, than it did a month ago.

[Window Cleaner]

I dont think it's a question of "being found out" but a combination of a few factors. One is luck, we played Brum at the right time, seemed to get a few Pens and against Millwall & Forest could easily of drawn. Another factor is sides played well, Leicester have good players and will turn out good performances every so often, we were on the receiving end of one of them. Bristol defended really well, that was another. The main reason is key players missing. I'm convinced we would have beaten Blackpool with Kelvin in goal, we've also missed Chappers, who was a key man in our system. Fonte and Jos haven't played together lately, Lallana's missed a couple of home games and Rickey onviously missed the Leicester game.

 

Unless you get really lucky the sides that cope with injuries the best will go up. Our squad looks better set up to cope now, than it did a month ago.

 

As you say there are many reasons but one of the most vital is constantly being ignored.

 

CB injuries

 

Jose 25 league games 13 wins

Jos 22 league games 11 wins

Aarron 8 league games 2 wins

 

We needed a CB in the window, Martin has time on his side but we need a top man now if this Jos.Jose alternance on injuries is going to go on.

[This Charming Man]

As you say there are many reasons but one of the most vital is constantly being ignored.

 

CB injuries

 

Jose 25 league games 13 wins

Jos 22 league games 11 wins

Aarron 8 league games 2 wins

 

We needed a CB in the window, Martin has time on his side but we need a top man now if this Jos.Jose alternance on injuries is going to go on.

 

I've personally thought that Martin has been brilliant the last few games (bar Millwall the other night when the entire defence had a shocker).

[shurlock]

As you say there are many reasons but one of the most vital is constantly being ignored.

 

CB injuries

 

Jose 25 league games 13 wins

Jos 22 league games 11 wins

Aarron 8 league games 2 wins

 

We needed a CB in the window, Martin has time on his side but we need a top man now if this Jos.Jose alternance on injuries is going to go on.

 

Think that's misleading to say the least - what about draws but clean sheets i.e. Brum (a) or in the case of Fonte/Jos wins but conceding goals i.e. Forest (h)?

 

On the whole, Martin has looked very solid recently - obviously doesnt like being dragged to the flanks and exposed to people running with the ball. But that's true of any CB - remember Fonte getting into similar trouble away at Leicester. Could ask what the full back's doing in the first place to let that happen...

[david in sweden]

Seems to me that prior to Doncaster no team knew how to handle us at our place, since they did us at home it looks like we've been found out and we've struggled to adjust.

Prior to Donnie, any team coming to us and deciding to have a go got torn a new one, hence our goal difference, but of late it seems that any team doing just that have left with the points.

Interesting how the relaxed 'Barcelona-esque' footy of the early part of the season is now a little muted (and sometimes teams have produced that against us), is it confidence or teams have worked us out and Adkins is struggling for a solution?

 

NOTE this is not a manager/team bashing negative attack or a happy clappers versus doom mongers thread but an objective analysis of the turn around

 

 

Agree with all that Badger,

goes along with my previous thoughts that playing that "lovely-to-watch, twenty passes /possession football " on the SMS billiard table pitch in the balmy Autumn was great. Doncaster and a few other teams brought us down to Earth, and the prime example of the " winter wonderland at Birmingham" proved that point.

It's not about the cultured foot that plays the ball - but how far it will travel on a wet, or frozen surface.

 

In times like these ..it's back to the big boot upfield, and chasing it ....thats how teams are taking points off us at present.

[derry]

Up to the Bristol game we were flying with crisp pass and move, high tempo pressing without the ball. We were creating chances and getting in on the end of them. Then Chaplow was injured, it wasn't missing Chaplow but our change to the team dynamics that slowed everything down. Playing the three midfielders together was a disaster and despite getting out of jail v Hull bringing DeRidder on at half time and winning a losing game we continued for about six more games to play that midfield. getting slower and slower and poor results. Then we picked up injuries to both centre backs and Lambert suspended which stifled any recovery. Now we have lost our advantage and practically wasted fifteen games. Luckily for us we now have a full squad plus reinforcements.

 

We now need to get back to that high tempo nut crunching game and as we go get the fast pass and move game going. If we do that we could well accelerate again. Birmingham was significant for me and I could see the seeds of a revival, not from the chances created but the raised tempo. Not only have the midfield been slow. the goalkeeper and the defenders have also been painful in their pedestrian tempo.

 

It is not a case of being found out. it is a case of discontinuing a winning formula with a terrible team selection leading to a loss of momentum then suffering from injuries prolonging the agony. I hope we can put this behind us and get back on track on Saturday by tearing into Burnley, then WH.

Edited 9 February, 2012 by derry

[Turkish]

Fair point, you cant pull teams out of shape if they have good discipline refuse to be drawn. But Im failing to see how being more direct helps in anyway, especially with the problem of teams sitting back. You might end up with more attempts on goal, but also lose possession and open yourselves up more.

 

Teams know what to expect. For example centre halves that we play against know that we dont haven't had a striker that can play on the shoulder and bend or time theirs runs in behind the defence. They know we cant really break at pace on the counter attack. They know that we'll try and pass through them. I think we're a bit too predictable, it was great earlier in the season when it was new and working and it's great when you get an early goal or when you're trying to close a game out. I'm not saying we should start playing long ball but mix it up a bit more rather than doing the same thing everytime. And you know what, sometimes a driven cross into the area low and hard can cause panic in the defence and lead to all sorts of mistakes or defelections same with a long ball, not a humped aimless ball but a well targeted one with players making runs attacking it.

Edited 9 February, 2012 by Turkish

[shirleysfc]

Teams know what to expect. For example centre halves that we play against know that we dont haven't had a striker that can play on the shoulder and bend or time theirs runs in behind the defence. They know we cant really break at pace on the counter attack. They know that we'll try and pass through them. I think we're a bit too predictable, it was great earlier in the season when it was new and working and it's great when you get an early goal or when you're trying to close a game out. I'm not saying we should start playing long ball but mix it up a bit more rather than doing the same thing everytime. And you know what, sometimes a driven cross into the area low and hard can cause panic in the defence and lead to all sorts of mistakes or defelections same with a long ball, not a humped aimless ball but a well targeted one with players making runs attacking it.

 

This sums it up for me. We can be more direct without being a long team.

 

Less sideways passing, more shooting!

[derry]

We have some new options now, Sharp on the shoulder with Puncheon, a much better footballer after a year of exposure to Premier league players in training. Lee brings incisive running but needs quick ball to put him in. DeRidder getting used to us with Reeves looking like he isn't far from a breakthrough. He could be the attacking playmaker we have lacked.

[shurlock]

TBH our problems go back a while - at least to the Reading game if not before.

 

Would even say that teams like Burnley had us figured out by squeezing the midfield/pushing up back in early autumn - just that we were able to mix things up by going direct to Lambert. Boil away the bluff of our propaganda, maximum possession football, most of our menace has come from hitting Lambert relatively early.

 

History shows that we've won many games quite convincingly -Watford, Brum etc; but the scorelines have been quite deceptive. We've been supremely clinical in games - as ruthless as I've ever seen us. Once we've edged a goal, we've powered on; but we've never created bucket loads of chances and often looked quite disjointed until the opening goal.

 

Those who want to focus on particular injuries or turning points are buying into the hype - I'm not saying we're or were sh*te, we deserve to be up there - just that I don't see a massive difference between today's slump and our all guns blazing peak. And insofar as there is a difference, its probably not as big as people make out.

Edited 9 February, 2012 by shurlock

[shurlock]

This sums it up for me. We can be more direct without being a long team.

 

Less sideways passing, more shooting!

 

We've always been quite direct - dont let the tippy tappy stuff fool you.

[70's Mike]

course we have "been found out" it is now down to NA to slightly change things to gain the advantage. No one said promotion would be easy and that all the other teams were going to roll over.

for me key to our hopes is keeping Lallana fit and stopping some of the suicide cross field balls which in the last few home games have fallen to their wingers exposing our defence.

other big area to improve is delivery from set plays which of late has been awful

[DrunkenSaint]

We were found out back in November and NA who everyone trusts, has not seen this. The only games we have won in the last few months were against 10 men and players have under performed for months but still get into the team. Most managers would look at the opposition before the game and choose tactics and team to counteract them, im afraid that NA seems to stick to the same game plan whoever we play and players who have performed in the past not on current form. I personally think he's lost the plot altogether, his substitutes have been strange, an attacker to replace a midfielder when Lambert was sent off even when we were losing the midfield battle and the other night an attacker on for the impressive De Ridder when we were 2-1 up, he should of replaced SDR for another midfielder if he wanted to rest SDR. The list continues....

 

I loved him for getting us here but he really needs to get his act together, stop his big headed talk and his excuses and just sort out this mess, if it means we stop playing fancy football so be it, id prefer to win any game playing ugly than lose playing pretty football.

[up and away]

For me, I thought we were found out when we played Millwall at home in the league. We were very fortunate to win 1-0 (great pass from Cork for Guly's goal), but they pressed us all game and I thought they made us look foolish.

 

Teams that press us put us off our stride and we panic. If a team sits back, that's when we're at our best.

 

Need to learn how to beat teams that decide to press us all over the field.

 

We were lucky to beat Millwall, no more than that, but I do take the point you are making. The reason we were playing so well at the beginning of the season was because we had players in form. Cork was a revelation, Hammond, Guly and Connolly were on their game and Lallana was just exceptional. Ricky I feel was bit behind the others for just a couple of games but is now in the best form I have ever seen him. Apart from he now has no idea what to do with free kicks. If you remember the defence was a real worry, both in the middle and flanks. What was winning us those early games so easily was a control of the midfield, combined with a pass and move style that was executed to perfection. Later we managed to get the full backs in on the act and chances were ever increasing.

 

First off we found that if we don't have control of the midfield, we find it far more difficult to dictate the result. Schneiderlin or Hammond can have exceptional games in midfield, but very rarely twice in a week with even Cork succumbing to this as well. We have to have two fit from that 3 in the centre and start changing them out every 1½ games. Add to that form, injuries and team selection and you have everything we have seen go wrong in midfield. Just look at the back to back games against Forest and Leicester. We were good against a poor Forest, We were not that bad against Leicester, but their midfield ripped it away from us. The midfield is the area where I feel Adkins has made his biggest errors, either by having the wrong personnel from the start or going for all 3 points by weakening that midfield / defence for more of an attacking option. Bristol and Doncaster come to mind here. We can do it without the midfield, but generally when things go wrong it is because of the midfield. Reading took the midfield away from us but left themselves toothless in attack until we started to force things and made life easy for them. We were lucky to get a point there.

 

Equally we don't have the balance from the full backs that we developed during our golden spell. Many are complaining about Fox's delivery from crosses and corners, quite rightly so. But in his first few games his delivery was exceptionally good, where that has gone, no one knows. Equally all over the pitch we are no longer seeing the inventiveness from the training ground and I just cannot see it as justified that Ricky should be taking free kicks any more, just no direct threat to make a goalie nervous.

 

IMHO our best controlled performance was against Middlesbrough, where Jos allowed Fonte to develop from the back, Chaplows energy flipped things to total domination of attack or defence and Guly and Lambert worked well together. Since that point things have just drifted away from us due to form, injury or suspension. We don't have a natural #9 but Ricky has to take on that role even if his game suffers. So why shouldn't we find that form again? There is no real reason with all the players coming back to fitness and form I just feel it's a matter of time. Chaplow may be a few weeks off, but Puncheon has added so much it does not seem that much of a worry. Sharp has to learn the ropes but I can't see any reason why he cannot easily rise to the challenge, Just keep that midfield rotating and fresh and we have more than enough strength form the bench for a heavy schedule. If Lallana hits top form again even the likes of West Ham will wonder what hit them. He just needs some common sense about leaving the next games performance on a match already won.

[aintforever]

We had a honeymoon period, it's over. That's all.