alpine_saint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 The opposition arent always going to present us with empty nets on the 6-yrd line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 New thread required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 I'm delighted a new thread has been set up for this. Clearly doesn't belong in "post match reaction", given we haven't managed a shot on target all season. Sigh. Mods - please lock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 The opposition arent always going to present us with empty nets on the 6-yrd line... Perfectly reasonable question, same as against Cardiff, not just tonight. The players seem scared to have a crack. Tonight it was crying out for it, hit a long shot, skid off the ground, keeper in trouble. Tuesday was just as bad. We are trying to walk it into the net. Nothing wrong with that most of the time, but mix it up, have a go, even Adkins said something similar after Tuesday. Perhaps Billy or Chung will be prepared to have a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 It is a very pertinent point although we are top scorers our goals per game over the last 10 or so games has been very disappointing (Forest being the exception) and we are just not creating the chances we were earlier in the season. Today was a typical day where long shots were called for given the conditions and we didnt manage one shot on target all match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Was just going to start my own thread on this , why didn't Ricky shoot ffs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didcot Saint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Even Sir Rickie had a golden chance from a free kick in the last minute. Why the f... Didn't he shoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint_bert Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Morgan scored from 25 yards against Forest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Valid topic for me because it's a constant theme. I'm still burning about Lallana turning away from goal at P*mpey when we were 1-0 up and had just opened them up like a tin of sardines. Billy Sharp should bring that shooting mentality as long as we don't coach it out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Would like us to have shot given our lack of chances BUT The free kick was perhaps too close to goal - in that awkward area where its hard to get the ball up and down The chip to the Fonte at the back stick has worked wonders before, notably against Hartlepool last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2.3 Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 But it hasn't worked once this season and with a minute plus injury time to go you have to have a dig even if you slip and end up on your butt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 (edited) Morgan scored from 25 yards against Forest Indeed he did. And we tried our luck quite a bit at Forest but were absolutely woeful from distance ( until we went 3up). Not sure we have the players to hit them from distance, especially in those positions where you get time and space to shoot. Edited 4 February, 2012 by shurlock until? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2012 New thread required? I'm delighted a new thread has been set up for this. Clearly doesn't belong in "post match reaction", given we haven't managed a shot on target all season. Sigh. Mods - please lock. Yes, it does deserve a separate thread and not be part of "post match reaction" because it is endemic to every game at the moment, not just this specific match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 New thread required? Oh ffs, are you saint clarks milk monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Oh ffs, are you saint clarks milk monitor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Oh ffs, are you saint clarks milk monitor. Just 1000 posts in over 6 years will tell you that my life is not wasted trying to feel important on a football forum. The reason for my reply was that there was another thread started a few minutes before this, making exactly the same point. You just sit quietly and carry on trying to feel appreciated, or even acknowledged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st.sj Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 The opposition arent always going to present us with empty nets on the 6-yrd line... Oh why dont you just f u c k o f f! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Oh why dont you just f u c k o f f!why don't you take your.own advice? Was there any point to your post at all? Don't know why we have to put up with mong posts like.yours. If you don't have the education to post something useful then don' t bother Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 The replies on here sum how this place has become. Unless you post happy clappy posts the web fans will cry until threads are deleted, locked or merged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 why don't you take your.own advice? Was there any point to your post at all? Don't know why we have to put up with mong posts like.yours. If you don't have the education to post something useful then don' t bother This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Without a Halo Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 The replies on here sum how this place has become. Unless you post happy clappy posts the web fans will cry until threads are deleted, locked or merged. Whilst I agree this is a very pertinent thread that should not be met by abuse! You likewise should stop this web fan versus real fan generalisation of yours! For example just because I happen to be 4000 miles away from matches most weeks doesn't make me any less of a fan even if I am forced to be what you call a web fan these days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Yes, it does deserve a separate thread and not be part of "post match reaction" because it is endemic to every game at the moment, not just this specific match. The official stats don't bear that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 The replies on here sum how this place has become. Indeed. Yours included. And everyone elses who posts about the replies, not the subject at hand. So, moving on... I actually think it's a valid question and thread. As with all criticism it should be constructive IMO, and we have to place it in context of the season, but it is undoubtedly true that we have been a bit more shot shy over the last part (difficult to say exactly how long) of the season. From a players point of view, in a good footballing team, it can be a tough choice. By blazing a shot over or wide from 25+ yards, you leave yourself open to criticism of not seeking a better option. You make a split second decision, and because we've become a pretty good footballing side, we know we CAN score good team goals, then in theory the % chance is greater for working a clear opening in front of goal, rather than a lower % chance from distance. But, with practice and a sharp (no pun intended) player following up, long shots can often create chances even if they don't score directly and we should try more. I'd like to think that we've now got a fanbase who won't get on players' backs automatically for trying something that doesn't come off so players really shouldn't be afraid to have a go every so often. There is no right or wrong answer, there is no ideal amount of shots to have from distance, you just have to make a judgement and go with it. So, at the risk of wittering on too long (doh, too late): Yes, we should shoot from distance more often, especially if defending teams get men behind the ball, but equally, we shouldn't start to make it out to be too big a problem that overshadows things we are doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 The official stats don't bear that out. Unless you're going to tell me differently, I didn't think anyone (even statto-nuts) keeps stats on "shot opportunities not taken." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Unless you're going to tell me differently, I didn't think anyone (even statto-nuts) keeps stats on "shot opportunities not taken." Matthew Le God is digging out his stats as you type... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Unless you're going to tell me differently, I didn't think anyone (even statto-nuts) keeps stats on "shot opportunities not taken." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Matthew Le God is digging out his stats as you type... BTW Minty, for me it's not just shots from 25 yards (I agree with much of what you said) but also shots inside the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st.sj Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 why don't you take your.own advice? Was there any point to your post at all? Don't know why we have to put up with mong posts like.yours. If you don't have the education to post something useful then don' t bother Actually you are dead right. It was inappropriate. Please accept my apologies. My frustration at what this site has become momentarily got the better of me. I am now banning myself from ever posting on here again and accept the insults and put downs that my mong behaviour so richly deserves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNSUN Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 We'll smash Burnley and all this will be a moot point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidthesquid Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Yes, it does deserve a separate thread and not be part of "post match reaction" because it is endemic to every game at the moment, not just this specific match. Oh my God - I find myself agreeing with Alpy. We are shot-shy at the moment & pass rather than shoot. It is partly a fear thing & we saw it a bit under Strachan. When we are passing it about nicely everyone is afraid to mess it up with a blaze into the crowd, and when it isn't going well, they are just afraid to take responsibility. It's a mental thing with the players that Nige has to sort. We wouldn't have scored tonight if Brum had put out eleven snowmen in blue shirts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Actually you are dead right. It was inappropriate. Please accept my apologies. My frustration at what this site has become momentarily got the better of me. I am now banning myself from ever posting on here again and accept the insults and put downs that my mong behaviour so richly deserves. Mission accomplished. For once we have a decent, valid point to discuss and all we get is abusive behaviour. As I said even NA accepts that on Tuesday we were reluctant to take shots (in post match interview on Solent) and today it looked like they couldn't see where the goal was because of the white fluffy stuff. A goal from a GK fumble today was always going to be a possibility but not enough intelligence shown on the pitch to give it a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 4 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Mission accomplished. For once we have a decent, valid point to discuss and all we get is abusive behaviour. As I said even NA accepts that on Tuesday we were reluctant to take shots (in post match interview on Solent) and today it looked like they couldn't see where the goal was because of the white fluffy stuff. A goal from a GK fumble today was always going to be a possibility but not enough intelligence shown on the pitch to give it a try. Well, I know that on TV I had trouble seeing the ball; the winter-weather ball is not particularly "orange", is it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 It's the same with the short corner, with all that snow flying about it should have been banged straight in because that is just what the defenders wouldn't have wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 It's the same with the short corner, with all that snow flying about it should have been banged straight in because that is just what the defenders wouldn't have wanted. 100% agree, it's fine to do it once or even twice for surprise factor but no substitute for crowding the keeper and making them defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Lallana against Cardiff the other day anyone? Edge of the area, man just about to close him down, but far enough away to get a good shot in, he takes two touches, moves to the side, loses the ball. Confidence has been knocked, one would assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 Well, I know that on TV I had trouble seeing the ball; the winter-weather ball is not particularly "orange", is it ? Agreed, I had trouble seeing the ball as well, but the goal posts? They didn't move them as far as I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modern matron Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 The opposition arent always going to present us with empty nets on the 6-yrd line... Alps, have to agree, to many passes no pressure on their keeper..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OfnPanad Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 BTW Minty, for me it's not just shots from 25 yards (I agree with much of what you said) but also shots inside the box. Yes - tonight not long before he went off Puncheon was on the edge of the box when he received a pass and if he'd turned he'd have seen he just had the keeper to beat, but he just passed it back to the middle of the park. Crazy but a lot of teams play it safe not just us. If Leicester hadn't done this as well they'd have routed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 I also noticed that on a couple of occasions when we were pressing we turned attack into defence and retreated the ball back to Davies, it is almost like we have lost our attacking confidence and are scared of being caught on the break. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 I completely agree with Alpine on this - not enough risk taking with shots on goal. If I didn't know better I would say the players are having their natural ability coached out of them. And Adriansfc is once again wide of the mark - just before his injury, Lallana would cut in from the left on a number of occasions and let one fly - he's scored some very memorable goals in the manner. To say he's typically just a passer of the ball is inaccurate. If I were Adkins I would be telling the players to take a risk and shoot at least 1 in 3 times. Fortune favours the brave Nigel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 It's all about the confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 It's all about the confidence. I'm not convinced. As CaM said, Lallana would let fly quite often and now we hardly ever see it. And he's not the only one to become shot-shy. God forbid it happens with Billy Sharp. It's almost as though they've been told not to waste the ball with low-percentage shots - "If the clear opening isn't there, let's double-back and try to create the clear opening." But it's good to see that even Adkins is now saying we don't shoot enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_lambden Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 The 3 central midfielders - Hammond, Schneiderlin and Cork - are all defensively minded really. You could argue that all can be box-to-box players but the Cork particularly seems to lack confidence when he gets to the edge of the box. Nigel seemingly bidding for Commons probably suggests we're after a goalscoring midfielder, and I'm sure that it'll be addressed in the summer. Although, the defence minded nature of the above mentioned players has helped us at times this season, so as long as the goals come elsewhere - it isn't really too much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 Wasn't there some stat early on where we'd only scored 1 goal outside the box after 15 games or so (but were also top scorers)? When the Hooper speculation was going on a Celtic fan was quoting statistics about the shot/goal conversion rate of Lambert compared with Hooper. Cant remember the excact figures but he reckoned RL took almost three times as many shots for each goal scored compared to Hooper. Have never seen those stats listed anywhere, would make interesting reading about the rest of the team also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 Adkins has said many times this season we need to take the chance to shoot when it comes. Can debate the reasons, confidence etc., but suggesting Adkins is coaching them not to shoot?! I really don't get that. Perhaps we're just arguing/discussing semantics. I'm not saying Adkins has told them not to shoot - that's not an accurate depiction of what I said. I'm suggesting that someone may be telling them to be very selective about when they shoot. Thus, his idea of "when the time comes" might be different to that of many on here. We're long on build-up and short on goals. We should be scoring more and putting sides away earlier. In my mind we have everything to gain by taking a crack more often. Hopefully it will come with Sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 The 3 central midfielders - Hammond, Schneiderlin and Cork - are all defensively minded really. You could argue that all can be box-to-box players but the Cork particularly seems to lack confidence when he gets to the edge of the box. Nigel seemingly bidding for Commons probably suggests we're after a goalscoring midfielder, and I'm sure that it'll be addressed in the summer. Although, the defence minded nature of the above mentioned players has helped us at times this season, so as long as the goals come elsewhere - it isn't really too much of a problem. That's a really good point. One of the most dangerous places on the pitch is around "the D" on the edge of the box. It's amazing how many half-clearances end up there, and every one of them is a half chance - don't control it, just hit it and accept that some will hit the roof of the stand, but some will go in. We have nobody in our midfield who's consistently capable of that or even interested in it - Hammond occasionally, Schneiderlin not (other than a bit of a freak against Forest), Corky not. It's a key strategic zone and I think we waste it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brussels Saint Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 I quite like all the tippy tappy no end product stuff. It's beautiful to watch, where's your artistic soul people! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 It is infuriating at times that we fanny about with the ball on the edge of the area, but our style of play is that we try and work space for us to shoot. It would be nice if we shot a bit more often though, Nige has mentioned it in his last 2 post-match interviews so i'm sure we'll be a bit more offensive with our play around the edge of the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintant Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 Going back to Rickie's freekick, if he had no intention of shooting why didn't he get himself at the far post and let somebody else chip it? Why let one of your most potent aerial threats chip the ball to the back post? Crazy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 5 February, 2012 Share Posted 5 February, 2012 Going back to Rickie's freekick, if he had no intention of shooting why didn't he get himself at the far post and let somebody else chip it? Why let one of your most potent aerial threats chip the ball to the back post? Crazy! because the opposition would not have been expecting it. Part of the tactic is the element of surprise. It didn't work yesterday and that was frustrating in the context of the game, but we have scored more goals from that routine than from direct free kicks this season I believe (when did Rickie last score one in fact? Bournemouth last season?) so I'm not gonna criticise the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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