Viking Warrior Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 I cant see another thread so apologies if there is one I dont particularly like terry but I think it is wrong that the Footballing authorities are stripping him of the captaincy. There has been a witch hunt against him by the media , minority pressure groups oh and the footballers lawyer rio ferdinand. I think those that have made this decision need to grow a pair. Hes innocent until proven guilty The footballing authorities are a bunch of cowards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 They're also wildly inconsistent. It does get at me those bloody scousers always moaning but in this instance I think they have a point. John Terry, subject to criminal charges, so the FA won't investigate. If Terry is found not guilty as it cannot be proved beyond reasonably doubt they will say that it has been dealt with by a higher power. Luis Suarez, not subject to criminal charges so the FA investigate and find him guilty on the balance of probability. Hmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Nah - he's a clunt...do you want a chav clunt as England captain? Worrying that there's not a huge number of options that don't come in to that category though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 The captaincy is a privilege though, so can be taken away from him at any point , for any reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 3 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2012 The FA and or club can carryout an investigation at the same time as the poice investigation if he is in breach of club disciplinary and code of conduct policiies if they so wished. I have dealt with with employment cases that are investigated internal and inconjunction with potential criminal cases. It depends on the nature of the case. but case law has set precedents where you do not have to wait for a police conclusion which can take years. Also there is sush a thing as natural justice Dronkissaint I agree with your sentiments but he is innocent till proven guilty. If he is found notguilty expext him to sue the FA Et al for defamation etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 And yet, if any of us had been accused of racially abusing someone else in the business, we'd probably be on suspension pending the outcome of the investigation. Forgive me if I don't feel sorry for a multi-millionaire football player who might not get to lead his country out. Oh, and if he's guilty, then he shouldn't even be playing for the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 3 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2012 I accept the reasoning from fellow posters.I do not like Terry he should never have been reappointed after the Bridge affair. Man is not to be trusted. But the FA should have stepped in much earlier than this whether he is guilty or not. Natural justice should be paramount in every case not dictated by people with agendas and the media Terry isa total cock I agree with that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 They're also wildly inconsistent. It does get at me those bloody scousers always moaning but in this instance I think they have a point. John Terry, subject to criminal charges, so the FA won't investigate. If Terry is found not guilty as it cannot be proved beyond reasonably doubt they will say that it has been dealt with by a higher power. Luis Suarez, not subject to criminal charges so the FA investigate and find him guilty on the balance of probability. Hmmmm. Someone reported the Terry incident to the police so had a duty to investigate and it has gone through the usual channels, that wasn't so in the Suarez case. It's the date of trial which is baffling, I'm sure they could have done this sooner to stop the media circus lasting all season and into the summer, esp with Euro 2012 coming up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 3 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Yes Pap if he is guilty it should be the end of his england career. I just hope they dont give the captaincy to Rio Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jones91 Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 He definitely had it in for Wayne Bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 He definitely had it in for Wayne Bridge. I thought it was in his girlfriend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Rio won't be in the squad anyway after he punches Terry instead of shaking his hand before their game this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 He's not even good enough for the squad anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 If Capello picks the same old players, I don't think I'll be watching England in Euro12. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 He definitely had it in for Wayne Bridge. :D a grudge f*ck...Terry had it in for him! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 If Capello picks the same old players, I don't think I'll be watching England in Euro12. I don't think it matters who he picks, you won't be watching them for more than 3 games anyway, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 It shouldn't have come to this. John Terry has shown that he has no idea how to behave. Knowing that he has already lost the captaincy once through his behaviour, he should have indicated that whilst he was innocent the speculation was an unnecessary distraction, so he would stand down as England captain but be available if selected. This should have been done as soon as he was charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 If were the FA, I would either keep Terry as Captain or end his England career. SA 2010 proved that he is a nightmare to have in the sqaud under any circumstances except Captain. And I dont think the FA have the nerve to end his England career, so it means Euro 2012 will be a colossal f**k-up too.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 I don't think it matters who he picks, you won't be watching them for more than 3 games anyway, But it would be interesting to see the new faces he picks and then how badly they perform for a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 3 February, 2012 Author Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Totally agree with You Derry. He should never have got the captaincy back but then the media did campaign for him to begiven it back or should I say the london hacks who were behind him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sadoldgit Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 We had a manager who was given "garden leave" because of claims made against him. He was innocent until proved guilty and was actually found to be innocent in the end. It was felt that the court case would mean that he couldn't focus properly on his job. Is that the same with Terry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Someone reported the Terry incident to the police so had a duty to investigate and it has gone through the usual channels, that wasn't so in the Suarez case. It's the date of trial which is baffling, I'm sure they could have done this sooner to stop the media circus lasting all season and into the summer, esp with Euro 2012 coming up. I appreciate that, but is it not a little inconsistent that from a football perspective, Terry is being tried on a "beyond reasonable doubt" basis while Suarez was tried on a "balance of probability" basis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 (edited) I appreciate that, but is it not a little inconsistent that from a football perspective, Terry is being tried on a "beyond reasonable doubt" basis while Suarez was tried on a "balance of probability" basis? I don't know what happen in the Suarez case (I haven't read the 100+ page report) but I presume Evra made a complaint to the FA and as the spat was between the two with no one else involved or being over heared it remained an FA issue. Edited 3 February, 2012 by Doctoroncall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinger Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 I don't think it's anything to do with 'innocent until proven guilty'. This isn't about the FA delivering a judgement on his case, it's a pragmatic approach to attempted success. With the case still pending, and hanging over everyone until after the tournament, it's clearly a massive distraction from the business of doing well in a major tournament. How can he lead the team when half the players are unlikely to respect him? When he's bound to have other things on his mind? And without the captaincy, Capello will be able to drop him based on form without causing too much disruption (which his form thoroughly deserves). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS1980 Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Will be interesting to see who does get appointed captain though. Last time round it was Rio, and he has gone now, wont make the squad IMO. Gerrard maybe, but not been fit for a while. Would be good to give it to a younger player, but Rooney is the only was certain of playing and he is missing games through suspension. Too early for Whilshere, Maybe Joe Hart? Parker? Cahill? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Duckhunter Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Whilst legally there is a presumption of innocence it is not absolute. If it was there would be no prisoners on remand as they are innocent until proven guilty. Ian Huntley was innocent until proven guilty, but that did not give him the right to keep his caretaking job whilst awaiting trial.A teacher accused of slapping a 6th former, would not be able to still keep teaching until found guilty/proved innocent. These are not just accusations against Terry, he has been charged. The question here therefore becomes is this charge so serious that, although innocent until proven guilty, he can not continue to do his job. With the FA determined to stamp out racism, with the tournament being held in a part of the world that’s maybe not quite where we are in respect of racist behaviour from fans,with the person who he’s accused of abusing’s brother and friends playing in the squad, and with the eyes of the nation if not the world looking on, there’s no way he can captain England.How can the FA turn round and condemn the abuse of our black players by other supporters (as has happened recently), whilst a man accused of abusing a player captains the side. It maybe a terrible miscarriage, as with Dave Jones. But, innocent until proven guilty does not mean a man accused of rape could remain England Captain and personally I feel that a mean accused of what Terry has been shouldn’t either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofarnorth Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Think it was probably the right decision and to be honest Terry is no longer the player he used to be anyway. Scott Parker gets my vote to take his place. Or Ricky when he gets the inevitable call up he deserves ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsfc Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 Definitely correct to strip him of captaincy and he shouldn't be anywhere near an England squad. It's too much of a distraction and we seem to keep getting those as soon as a major tournament comes up. I hope Cappello has the balls to drop him but I'm not so sure and I think it'll be Rio that gets left out (though neither should be in the squad as they are nowhere near as good as they used to be). The media hysteria when it comes to naming the squad will be ridiculous unless Terry is given the heave-ho now. If he is innocent then I would feel sorry for him having his career blighted by this and would hope he would receive, at the bare minimum, a very large grovelling apology from all involved. However he needs to realise that the team is more important than him right now and it wouldn't help the team for him to be involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punk Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 How is this even an issue? Consistently poor form since long before South Africa 2010, awful tournament then, getting worse still, and yet he's in the squad? The team? The captain? With anyone else I'd say racism charges should have them out. But the whole nation has known what a k-unt Terry is for 10 years or more. A racism charge really doesn't make him any worse than he already was so the captaincy seems redundant. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 3 February, 2012 Share Posted 3 February, 2012 And yet, if any of us had been accused of racially abusing someone else in the business, we'd probably be on suspension pending the outcome of the investigation. Forgive me if I don't feel sorry for a multi-millionaire football player who might not get to lead his country out. Oh, and if he's guilty, then he shouldn't even be playing for the country. Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever a red and white Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 He's lucky to still be playing football atm really, and on the same pitch as a player who he is court with? Inocent until proven guilty but it says a lot about someone when they are removed as England captain, twice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dellman Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 the mistake was ever to make him captain in the first place but he is clearly a guy who is impossible for any one else to lead, those types are best out of the squad altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 I do agree with the OP's point on the presumption of innocence but I don't think this has much to do with the FA determining Terry's guilt or otherwise. Terry has been tried in the court of public opinion and the FA had to act. I'm assuming Terry's lawyers pushed for the trial to be held after the European Championships and as soon as they did that he gave the FA no choice. Terry's potential CB pairing in Rio Ferdinand is actively, but cryptically hostile to Terry on Twitter over the alleged treatment of his little brother. The other week, the FA had to suspend the procedures for its Respect Campaign when I assume Ferdinand junior would have snubbed the England captain's offered hand. This is not the first time this has happened to this England captain by the way. I also have to assume that had they not suspended the pre-match Respect handshake then other members of the QPR team may also have refused to take the England captain's hand. And if that had happened, the pressure for other players in other clubs to do the same would have grown. Had both Terry and Rio Ferdinand been fit for the Chelsea v Utd. game, I wonder whether the Respect Campaign procedure would again have been suspended. Or would Rio have shaken Terry's hand? I've seen the video and haven't made my mind up what Terry said. Terry could be calling Ferdinand a "F***ing Black C***" or a "F***ing Blind C***" or alternatively it could be "Funning bleak cund" or any variation thereof. Either way, I personally don't think he is openly racist. Other members of the general public and the wider football community have tried Terry in their minds and found him guilty. We therefore have the most important footballing position in English football occupied by someone that many people believe to either be racist, or at least to have made a racist remark. It's not easy for an organisation to blindly back their foremost employee/representative against such public hostility without looking like it condones the person's action. I don't think the FA had much choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadhall Saint Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 He's not even good enough for the squad anyway. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 4 February, 2012 Share Posted 4 February, 2012 I can see both sides of the argument, the innocent until proven guilty. Of course this may never be proven, but it does not mean he did not say or do anything. Could be one word against another. But I cannot see why AF would make this up, but I cannot see why JT would say or do anything that is racist, and especially to the brother or cousin of his England team mate. But as someone on here pinted out yesterday, in any other normal job you would be suspended from work until after you were found guilty or innocent. I do not think it should be any different in this case. So Chelsea should perhaps make a stance, but then you will get all sorts of claims, just to get top players suspended. In the normal work place this of course would not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 6 February, 2012 Share Posted 6 February, 2012 How can anyone complain about this? He clearly said "****ing black ****". Regardless of the context, I and I hope most people have been able to go their whole lives without needing to say that. The whole England squad needs an overall, starting with Terry. The guys is a knob and clearly a divisive individual within the camp. How can he be captain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 7 February, 2012 Share Posted 7 February, 2012 Looks like we might get 2 tw*ts gone for the price of one. Capello is on the brink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 7 February, 2012 Share Posted 7 February, 2012 I think we should try Terry on Saintsweb. Can we carry out a little experiment? I'd be interested to see what people think. Personally, I could believe Terry is saying "black", but I'm not totally sure. If in his defence, Terry was to state he said "blind", I'd struggle to be completely sure he didn't. Watch the video and then as you see Terry saying the words, tell yourself he's saying "F***ing BLIND C***" and then tell yourself he's saying "F***ing BLACK C***". Is each one plausible? For me there is something about the movement of his jaw between the B word and the C word that sows a seed of doubt. Watch it and post Black or Blind if you think he definitely says one of those words, or post Both if you concede that he could be saying either. This is the court of Saintsweb so please try to put your prejudices aside and look at the evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 7 February, 2012 Share Posted 7 February, 2012 I think we should try Terry on Saintsweb. Can we carry out a little experiment? I'd be interested to see what people think. Personally, I could believe Terry is saying "black", but I'm not totally sure. If in his defence, Terry was to state he said "blind", I'd struggle to be completely sure he didn't. Watch the video and then as you see Terry saying the words, tell yourself he's saying "F***ing BLIND C***" and then tell yourself he's saying "F***ing BLACK C***". Is each one plausible? For me there is something about the movement of his jaw between the B word and the C word that sows a seed of doubt. Watch it and post Black or Blind if you think he definitely says one of those words, or post Both if you concede that he could be saying either. This is the court of Saintsweb so please try to put your prejudices aside and look at the evidence. Terry has already confirmed he said BLACK but his defence is that he was telling Ferdinand that he hadn't call him that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dingbattigger Posted 7 February, 2012 Share Posted 7 February, 2012 Definately said black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Cat Posted 7 February, 2012 Share Posted 7 February, 2012 I don't understand all the fuss about who is England captain. It's not as if it's cricket and he's making hundreds of onfield tactical decisions while the game is in progress. Most other countries don't give a flying crap who captains their team, and nor do I. Give it to whoever has the most caps or something, it really does not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintbletch Posted 7 February, 2012 Share Posted 7 February, 2012 Terry has already confirmed he said BLACK but his defence is that he was telling Ferdinand that he hadn't call him that. Apologies, I hadn't heard that Dig Dig. Guilty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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