Verdict: Coalition +18 months

[pap]

Was watching Prime Minister's Questions yesterday. The whole thing is available on iPlayer - check out the 25th Jan edition of the Daily Politics (thanks, Lord Duckhunter).

 

I have never really been a fan of the coalition. Conceptually, I've been onboard with quite a few of their ideas. I like the idea of the Localism Bill, for example. Another good idea? Well, I can certainly agree that Child Benefit shouldn't be universal either. The problem is that the few good ideas have a load of very bad ideas for company, and even the stuff I can get onboard with is being extremely poorly planned. The slap-dash (and soon to be scrapped) idea for delineating Child Benefit along higher rate tax-payers is an example of a poor plan to achieve the conceptual result.

 

Few things from PMQs:-

 

1) We've borrowed 158 billion more than we planned

2) Unemployment at highest levels for 18 years

3) IMO, Miliband put Cameron on the ropes and kept him there (don't take my word for it).

 

Cameron is of course, blaming Labour for the mess. I agree with one of the Daily Politics responders - that excuse is now becoming very tired. I could sympathise with that position when they first took the reins of office. But 158 billion more than you planned to spend once you knew what the score was? That's more difficult to accept, especially when the Conservative Party has been dressing itself in the fashion of fiscal prudence.

 

So, a few questions....

 

Has the Coalition already failed?

What are the best/worst things they've done while in office?

Are the current set of policies fit for purpose (the purpose being, getting the feck out of recession)

 

PMQs:

[video=youtube;-J7ZDkbLSUw]

[swannymere]

They havn't achieved anything really, i'll admit it's like trying to pull a U-Turn in an oil tanker but they just seem prepared to let their rich chums get even richer by taxing them less and don't even get me started on the lack of spine when it comes to the bankers. They seem a little lost. 4/10

[buctootim]

Tbh I dont think that even big majority Tory, Liberal or Labour governments would have done anything very much different. Essentially their hands are tied. They need to cut the deficit quick, otherwise the markets lose confidence and the interest payable on the debt will start to rise -but if you take too much money out of the economy through spending cuts you get a deeper recession, lower tax take, more unemployment and a bigger deficit.

 

Each of the parties might have had a slight difference in emphasis - cut this instead of that, hit this group instead of that one - but substantially the outcome would have been the same. Political parties, markets and BofE all essentially have the same script atm.

Edited 26 January, 2012 by buctootim

[Lord Duckhunter]

I’m in the “there is no other choice” bag.

 

The time for capping benefit and reforming the public services and sorting out their pensions, was during the “boom” years. Labour failed to do so, bottled it and let the Country down. We are now seeing much needed savings, cuts and reform in the times when we should be battening down the hatches.

 

The opposition have been awful, there cuts would equate to £7 out of every £8 the Coalition cut, but they oppose everything, it is sheer political optimism.

 

Personally I think things would be a lot worse under Labour. The problems are coming from the Euro (a currency Labour are in favour of in principle).

 

The raising of tax thresholds are a good thing.

 

The disappointing thing is the lies over a EU referendum.

[LGTL]

All they have done for 18 months is tell us that they have "a plan" for the economy.

 

I am yet to see it.

[dune]

P/ssing the lefties off nicely.

[Joesaint]

Happy TBF but wish we could stick 2 fingers to the EU.

[Jonnyboy]

I’m in the “there is no other choice” bag.

 

The time for capping benefit and reforming the public services and sorting out their pensions, was during the “boom” years. Labour failed to do so, bottled it and let the Country down. We are now seeing much needed savings, cuts and reform in the times when we should be battening down the hatches.

 

The opposition have been awful, there cuts would equate to £7 out of every £8 the Coalition cut, but they oppose everything, it is sheer political optimism.

 

Personally I think things would be a lot worse under Labour. The problems are coming from the Euro (a currency Labour are in favour of in principle).

 

The raising of tax thresholds are a good thing.

 

The disappointing thing is the lies over a EU referendum.

 

So if there was no euro and only the old currencies failing surely that doesnt have an effect on the pound and the UK?

[View From The Top]

I think they are doing a great job of making themselves unelectable for another generation.

 

The decision making process that they engage in is insane. The child benefit fiasco is beyond dumb and it was a great election to lose.

 

DC's main problem that "we are all in this together" is clearly not true and the ordinary folk resent that and that, along with Europe, will be his downfall.

 

The other David can just bide his time.

[View From The Top]

So if there was no euro and only the old currencies failing surely that doesnt have an effect on the pound and the UK?

 

Not sure I understand what you are on about there?

[Colinjb]

As a quite vocal Tory, I am a little unimpressed so far. Mind you, the role of government was a potential poisoned for whichever party(s) were to be given the dubious honour.

 

Things I want to see improved:

 

Talk of creating jobs through the private sector. Yes, just right, Where are they?

Benefit Cap of £26k, Don't give up on it. (This thread is about our own personal verdicts, please, if we are going to start on individual issue debates lets have a seperate thread.)

A better resolve on Europe. There is a large desire for our future standing to be continually questioned, don't ignore us.

 

Is the administration perfect? No. Would a solely Tory government be doing any better? Probably Not, but it certainly would have inspired more ire. Labour? Thank f**k they don't have the state cheque book anymore. The Liberal Democrats? It'll take at least 4 more elections for them to be taken seriously again.

[pap]

I’m in the “there is no other choice” bag.

 

The time for capping benefit and reforming the public services and sorting out their pensions, was during the “boom” years. Labour failed to do so, bottled it and let the Country down. We are now seeing much needed savings, cuts and reform in the times when we should be battening down the hatches.

 

The opposition have been awful, there cuts would equate to £7 out of every £8 the Coalition cut, but they oppose everything, it is sheer political optimism.

 

Personally I think things would be a lot worse under Labour. The problems are coming from the Euro (a currency Labour are in favour of in principle).

 

The raising of tax thresholds are a good thing.

 

The disappointing thing is the lies over a EU referendum.

 

Lord D, I think we're on opposite ends of the political spectrum, but I often find common ground with you, especially on the Euro.

 

I don't really buy that there is no other choice. Interesting piece on the Daily Politics today about a proposed piece of legislation, essentially to itemise where our tax money is going. Centrally collected taxation is pretty opaque. The Treasury recently provided some guidance, but they left out indirect tax and employer's national insurance contributions.

 

Tax is one of the big levers in our society, yet we don't really know how it's spent. There is an argument that if people could see what they were spending their money on, they might become more engaged in the political process. Another point made on the Daily Politics was that we wouldn't shell out thousands in the real world without knowing what we were spending it on.

 

I think a big reason that the government doesn't want to do this is that people would cotton on to their actual tax burden. Fuel duty and VAT are simulatenously keeping prices high and spending power low. Those are probably the two biggest economic levers we have, yet we don't touch them. Playing with either would put money back in people's and companies pockets, either through reduced operating costs for companies, lower travelling costs for motorists and lower prices at the tills.

 

Then you've got a topic I've started a thread on, the end of the war on drugs. Decriminalisation would save a lot in police resources, while legalisation, regulation and taxation can actually generate money.

 

Also, we've got membership of the Euro, an area of common ground for both of us.

 

The validity of those policies is down to a majority to decide, but they're not even on the table. If this were a business or family crisis, those involved would be considering all the options. That being the case, it seems weird that when we're up sheet creek on a national level, our politicians seem to be operating within a very strict framework, forged in corporate interests and irrational dogma.

[trousers]

Tbh I dont think that even big majority Tory, Liberal or Labour governments would have done anything very much different. Essentially their hands are tied. They need to cut the deficit quick, otherwise the markets lose confidence and the interest payable on the debt will start to rise -but if you take too much money out of the economy through spending cuts you get a deeper recession, lower tax take, more unemployment and a bigger deficit.

 

Each of the parties might have had a slight difference in emphasis - cut this instead of that, hit this group instead of that one - but substantially the outcome would have been the same. Political parties, markets and BofE all essentially have the same script atm.

 

^This

[GenevaSaint]

Things I want to see improved:

 

Talk of creating jobs through the private sector. Yes, just right, Where are they?.

 

I must admit Cameron's speech at Davos made me lol, now is the time for bold decisions to get our economy back on track. Mmmmm. Let's say the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Bumping along the bottom on .6 growth is never going to produce the jobs that we need in the private sector to offset the cuts to public sector. That said I am pleased with some of the coalition policies.

 

One ****er though, well off to pay more taxes to provide a big tax free amount for the lower paid. Now, with tax and in I already pay a very large tax bill, how much more can they ask for and define well off! No pay rise this year, higher fuell bills, groceries etc, I've effectively had a pay cut already and inflation is still running at over 4%.

[Kingsland Codger]

Not really an answer to the question originally posed but as a comment on the state of the nation ...

 

We are used to judging how things are by the economic data - GDP growth (or lack of it), inflation, unemployment, trade deficit, exchange rate that kind of thing and the news the day before yesterday about the economy shrinking by 0.2% was indeed a Bad Thing and has set politicians and journalists (and football forum contributors) off as is to be expected.

 

However, there was some other news out yesterday - death by heart attack has fallen by 50% in the last 10 years.

 

I regards this a truly positive bit of news - but this kind of stat won't be appearing in any 'state of the nation' list of data.

Edited 27 January, 2012 by Kingsland Codger

[GenevaSaint]

Not really an answer to the question originally posed but as a comment on the state of the nation ...

 

We are used to judging how things are by the economic data - GDF growth (or lack of it), inflation, unemployment, trade deficit, exchange rate that kind of thing and the news the day before yesterday about the economy shrinking by 0.2% was indeed a Bad Thing and has set politicians and journalists (and football forum contributors) off as is to be expected.

 

However, there was some other news out yesterday - death by heart attack has fallen by 50% in the last 10 years.

 

I regards this a truly positive bit of news - but this kind of stat won't be appearing in any 'state of the nation' list of data.

 

That was a very positive story and something the country canbe proud of. I wonder if well be able to say its the same after another 8 years of A coalition/tory government. Some of this must be down to education and investment in the NHS? That said at 6 quid a pack I guess some is cost based and some due to smoking ban.

[buctootim]

there was some other news out yesterday - death by heart attack has fallen by 50% in the last 10 years. I regards this a truly positive bit of news - but this kind of stat won't be appearing in any 'state of the nation' list of data.

 

That was a truly staggering stat. We get used to things changing marginally by 5 or 6 or 7% over those time frames I had to read the article twice to check I hadnt misread. The UK average lifespan is now three years longer than in the US - who spend a crippling three times what we do on healthcare, but let many old people die in poverty - two not entirely unconnected facts imo.

Edited 27 January, 2012 by buctootim

[eurosaint]

The biggest plus is that we preserved the AAA status because of the approach to spending cuts which gives huge interest charge savings on the monstrous national debt which they inherited !

Also a special mention for standing up to 'Merkosy' over the Eurozone bailout !

The biggest minus so far is that they haven't yet come to grips with immigration, human rights fiascos and benefit reform !

Could have been a lot worse IMHO !

[Kingsland Codger]

That was a truly staggering stat. We get used to things changing marginally by 5 or 6 or 7% over those time frames I had to read the article twice to check I hadnt misread. The UK average lifespan is now three years longer than in the US - who spend a crippling three times what we do on healthcare, but let many old people die in poverty.

 

I listened to one of those involved in the Reseach on the heart attack story on the wireless yesterday morning. He said that in addition to an improvement in diet and more exercise, the chief reason for this staggering stat was the smoking ban - and that a trend was starting to emerge as soon as 2 weeks after the ban was imposed.

[buctootim]

I listened to one of those involved in the Reseach on the heart attack story on the wireless yesterday morning. He said that in addition to an improvement in diet and more exercise, the chief reason for this staggering stat was the smoking ban - and that a trend was starting to emerge as soon as 2 weeks after the ban was imposed.

 

Can well belive it. I was smoker at the time and the legislation seemed draconian and uneccessary to me. However as there became fewer places to smoke and you had to exchange the bonhomie of smoking in a pub with a beer and friends for hanging outside of doors on rainy nights the appeal of smoking gradually diminished. The law was probably the push I need to give up. My circulation is noticeably better. My brother who still smokes had a stent fitted last week....

[solentstars]

happy with the coalition and think they are on the right path