Chairman's Dinner

[dune]

Yeah, I'm up for that - why don't we do a Pompey? - pay whatever stupid fees and wages people ask of us, have a nice bright afternoon in the sun and then just think of all the super times we can have putting anguished posts on here as our club goes out of existence.

 

I thought this would be trotted out. The CoC have been summoned.

[AK]

Still counts as strengthening in the period after the last loan window closed in late November. Had he not signed he would have left by now when his loan finished.

 

Did i say differently, i just stated a fact.Although i do think it is petty in the extreme to count him as strenghtening the team as he was already here,him going would have weakened the team, but does staying actually strengthen?Adding strenghthens, but does failing to remove also strenghten?

 

Personally for me i don't think we haven strengthened enough.I think we need another centreback ASAP even if its just a one month loan.One match fit centreback at The Club is ok for Saturday i guess but if Jose isnt ready for in the next 7 days we could be exposed.Jos came in on loan before The Seaborne incident, so i have been suprised that we havent added another CB since then.

[Matthew Le God]

Did i say differently, i just stated a fact.Although i do think it is petty in the extreme to count him as strenghtening the team as he was already here,him going would have weakened the team, but does staying actually strengthen?Adding strenghthens, but does failing to remove also strenghten?

 

His loan was due to end in early January. If he hadn't signed he would have gone back to Celtic and Saints wouldn't have had him for the rest of the season. So yes, signing him permanently was strengthening the squad for the remainder of the season and indeed the rest of his contract.

[Minty]

His loan was due to end in early January. If he hadn't signed he would have gone back to Celtic and Saints wouldn't have had him for the rest of the season. So yes, signing him permanently was strengthening the squad for the remainder of the season and indeed the rest of his contract.

I think you're being a bit pedantic. Yes, his 'signing' strengthens the squad, but he was already in the team and playing so relatively speaking the team has not been improved. On this point AK is right... real strengthening NOW, means NEW signings.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

We won't pay the money. If we won't pay the money why are we looking to sign these players? Why bother?

 

Why do you bother? Seriously. You come on here, along with Alpine, Hypo and Dalek and just complain. Why?

 

I used to love this site, but it has really, REALLY got worse. Everytime I see a thread with any of you on, I know it's going to be a poor, and frankly depressing, thread. But that's what contrarians do. They tell the majority they are wrong, until they are in the majority, then change tilt.

 

You could say, 'Just don't read the threads', but the issue is you are all so prolific you can't get away.

 

IMO, this forum is dying, and you guys are part of the problem.

[Winchester Red]

If Arsenal can stick rigidly to the pay structure their board think they can afford then so can we.

 

I know some smart arse is going to say they've won f*** all for the last 6 years but they've won more than enough since that policy was introduced.

 

Bottom line is if we can't afford the wages on our gates and tv money etc then we can't pay them (Unless Dune has a very big credit card!)

 

I seem to remember it being said that there was money available for capital expenditure projects and transfer fees (from ML) but actual running costs had to be funded from the business. You can also bet your bottom dollar that paying someone new more than our highest earner will trigger 5 or 6 large pay increases for the likes of Lambert, Lallana, etc. So another £5k a week for Mr X will likely cost us another £30k, which another £1-2m on the overhead.

 

NC has to safe guard the club as well as try and get success. We are in a far better position than most

[AK]

His loan was due to end in early January. If he hadn't signed he would have gone back to Celtic and Saints wouldn't have had him for the rest of the season. So yes, signing him permanently was strengthening the squad for the remainder of the season and indeed the rest of his contract.

 

I now know why people leave the board,and why i rarely post anything as arguing semantics seems more appealing than debating the more saints related footballing points, to a lot of people on here.Iam still surpised we have failed to strengthen ,further (if that makes you happy) the CB position.

 

Two new players in this window, two players out by my counting system( i apprecaite not by yours ).

i will know by the time i wake up Wenesday morning whether NC/NA have the same point of view as me with regard to the need to add more players to the squad.

[Sour Mash]

If Arsenal can stick rigidly to the pay structure their board think they can afford then so can we.

 

I know some smart arse is going to say they've won f*** all for the last 6 years but they've won more than enough since that policy was introduced.

 

Bottom line is if we can't afford the wages on our gates and tv money etc then we can't pay them (Unless Dune has a very big credit card!)

 

I seem to remember it being said that there was money available for capital expenditure projects and transfer fees (from ML) but actual running costs had to be funded from the business. You can also bet your bottom dollar that paying someone new more than our highest earner will trigger 5 or 6 large pay increases for the likes of Lambert, Lallana, etc. So another £5k a week for Mr X will likely cost us another £30k, which another £1-2m on the overhead.

 

NC has to safe guard the club as well as try and get success. We are in a far better position than most

Yes, agreed, all good stuff, but why make "Big bids" then and boast about them?

[Dig Dig]

Yes, agreed, all good stuff, but why make "Big bids" then and boast about them?

 

Who has been boasting?

[dune]

Yes, agreed, all good stuff, but why make "Big bids" then and boast about them?

 

It shows we have huge ambition. We might not actually sign any of these players but this is just a minor detail.

[Winchester Red]

Yes, agreed, all good stuff, but why make "Big bids" then and boast about them?

 

Well I can only answer as if it were me making the bids, but if it were, I'd let the fans know that bids had been accepted to show that we were at least trying (and on a very decent level). If we can't agree terms then it's either down to our lack of paying power or to players unrealistic expectations.

 

I don't see why people knock the PFC comparison. They are a prime example of lets buy another player and pay them whatever they want (and they have to because who'd go there for the love of it!?). I'd like us to be here in 20 years time. It's a very fine line all football league chairman walk, and they are definitely damned either way.

[StDunko]

swipe cards aren't really that "exiciting" are they, or alot different. May reduce the queues just slightly and a little less bulge for the pocket but that's about it.

 

I think the idea is to reduce the amount of fraud possible using the booklet system. A swipe card can be deactivated if monthly repayments are not made etc. So we will probably see the return of the installment plan.

[Liquidshokk]

I think the idea is to reduce the amount of fraud possible using the booklet system. A swipe card can be deactivated if monthly repayments are not made etc. So we will probably see the return of the installment plan.

 

It was mentioned that a proper installment plan will be in place as cards will be blocked if direct debit cancelled

[Winchester Red]

I think the idea is to reduce the amount of fraud possible using the booklet system. A swipe card can be deactivated if monthly repayments are not made etc. So we will probably see the return of the installment plan.

 

It's not unlike ID cards generally. There are a lot of good reasons to have them... and they are the same reasons some people don't want them.

 

Read into that whatever you want

[Pat from Poole]

- Guly is the Championship's 4th top scorer.

- Saints are the Championship's top scorers.

- Saints have just signed a Japanese international striker.

- Saints have made a multi million pound bid for another striker and there is still 4 days left to sign players.

 

 

 

Why do you think Saints have't strengthened this window? They have signed 3 players (Hooiveld, Falque and Lee), not sold any important players, made large bids for other players and have Jason Puncheon back available for selection. Plus as people keep telling you, there are four days left of the window and also players returning from injury and suspension.

 

 

With respect and all, this is utter hogwash. Relying on Puncheon and a Japanese striker and Spanish midfielder who have never played in England before to pull us out of our declining form is at best a very risky strategy.

[The Majestic Channon]

QUOTE=dune;1239516]I notice how quiet this place has become over the past week. I expect lot's of people will now realise how SAD it is to pay to post on a message baord and won't bother again. shhhhhh.

 

 

Still here posting as a full member then, thought you were leaving to start another probably even more tragic than the last version of 'forever saints'

 

You've got no will power mate, your'e addicted to this place

[Matthew Le God]

With respect and all, this is utter hogwash. Relying on Puncheon and a Japanese striker and Spanish midfielder who have never played in England before to pull us out of our declining form is at best a very risky strategy.

 

Did I say it was enough? I was just pointing out to Dune a few things that can't really be argued with as are factually correct and go against what he said.

 

In any case to add to Lee, Puncheon and Falque you can look at Lambert's return from suspension, plus Lallana, Fonte, Barnard and Chaplow's imminent return.

Edited 27 January, 2012 by Matthew Le God

[Dig Dig]

With respect and all, this is utter hogwash. Relying on Puncheon and a Japanese striker and Spanish midfielder who have never played in England before to pull us out of our declining form is at best a very risky strategy.

 

We're not though.......you don't think that key 1st team players returning will have a profound effect on our current form in addition to the mentioned signings?

 

And Falque has played games for Spurs.

[Pat from Poole]

We're not though.......you don't think that key 1st team players returning will have a profound effect on our current form in addition to the mentioned signings?

 

And Falque has played games for Spurs.

 

Oh OK, sorry, I didn't realised he had played for them. Apologies.

 

To go back to your first point, who can predict? If our top players are coming back into a side which is low on confidence, then they may themselves may well not be so effective when they return. I just get the feeling that it needs something else to kick-start the season, a fresh face to really make a difference, Puncheon could qualify for this, but the bloke just seems so unpredictable I'd hate to have to be his boss.

[sotonjoe]

I now know why people leave the board,and why i rarely post anything as arguing semantics seems more appealing than debating the more saints related footballing points, to a lot of people on here.Iam still surpised we have failed to strengthen ,further (if that makes you happy) the CB position.

 

 

Just ignore him. He's the resident pedant. Most people just roll their eyes and move on. Try not to feed him.

[buctootim]

With respect and all, this is utter hogwash. Relying on Puncheon and a Japanese striker and Spanish midfielder who have never played in England before to pull us out of our declining form is at best a very risky strategy.

 

We dont need to sign lots of players. The players we have are good enough to get us promoted, they proved that by holding the top spot for three months. We needed a bit more depth in the squad - and we've signed that. The real problem is the loss of form - and that needs to be cured internally.

Edited 27 January, 2012 by buctootim

[Bearsy]

Instead we'll have to trawl through the avalanche of ill-founded vitriol and speculation in order to locate the minutiae of posts that are actually of some interest.

 

Prophetic!

[S-Clarke]

It was mentioned that a proper installment plan will be in place as cards will be blocked if direct debit cancelled

 

Fantastic news!

[Sour Mash]

Well I can only answer as if it were me making the bids, but if it were, I'd let the fans know that bids had been accepted to show that we were at least trying (and on a very decent level). If we can't agree terms then it's either down to our lack of paying power or to players unrealistic expectations.

 

I don't see why people knock the PFC comparison. They are a prime example of lets buy another player and pay them whatever they want (and they have to because who'd go there for the love of it!?). I'd like us to be here in 20 years time. It's a very fine line all football league chairman walk, and they are definitely damned either way.

I think you might just be missing the point. You put in "big bids", it is fairly reasonable to expect to have to pay pretty big wages and deal with sh1ty agents. What is the point of doing the "big bids" then? I'm no overly bothered about bringing in new players and I agree about not-overspending, just don't like the pointless hype.

[Dig Dig]

Oh OK, sorry, I didn't realised he had played for them. Apologies.

 

To go back to your first point, who can predict? If our top players are coming back into a side which is low on confidence, then they may themselves may well not be so effective when they return. I just get the feeling that it needs something else to kick-start the season, a fresh face to really make a difference, Puncheon could qualify for this, but the bloke just seems so unpredictable I'd hate to have to be his boss.

 

Sounds like you've written off Lee as a fresh face who can make an impact? If that's the case, you may be right but equally you can't predict whether the likes of Sharp, Hooper or whoever would be able to turn around our fortunes.

 

I think's it's a far fairer assumption to say that the players who did so well Aug-Nov all coming back in will see a return in form as we've all seen what they can do when firing on all cylinders.

[Winchester Red]

I think you might just be missing the point. You put in "big bids", it is fairly reasonable to expect to have to pay pretty big wages and deal with sh1ty agents. What is the point of doing the "big bids" then? I'm no overly bothered about bringing in new players and I agree about not-overspending, just don't like the pointless hype.

 

Agents will certainly use the 'If he's worth X transfer fee then you should pay him Y argument' but as others have said, there isn't an exact link. Some clubs need to sell and will take less, others don't and will demand more (us being a prime example). You wouldn't pay a worse player than lallana or lambert more than they were getting.

 

As I said Chairman are damned either way

[Minty]

Not to mention the 'hype' mostly comes from the fans in the first place. The club just try to go about their business in their own way... one small piece of info from this dinner about 'big bids' gets passed on in good faith and here we are.

 

Some fans create their own expectations and then moan when the club fail to meet them.

[View From The Top]

Cue about three posts saying the club complaining isn't ambitious because they won't pay players £40K a week (if Pompey can be liquidated so can we), another three saying we haven't got any money, at least four saying Cortese is evil, one saying we will finish 17th and 'I told you so', one contemplating ending it all and probably a couple that appear to be written by Hitler with reference to Kenya and then a couple more defending these views.

 

I for one would rather be stable and finish 12th than bankrupt and lose the play-off final - but hey ho each to his own.

 

[Ken Tone]

The trouble is that many (most?) clubs are paying more in wages than they can afford and the whole market is ridiculously inflated. So if a club sticks to what it can afford, it will almost automatically be at a disadvantage.

 

As long as the Portsmouth living-above-their-means-then-reneging-on-debt scenario can happen, or as long as another rich (probably foreign) bloke with more money than sense, can come along and pay way over the odds, (eg chelsea), sensible clubs will always be fighting with one hand behind their backs.

 

The only answer is to give some real teeth to the financial proposals and really force clubs to live within their means.

 

As it is , I look forwards to Spurs going broke when Redknapp leaves and someone adds up the sums, and Chelsea going broke when Abramovitch wants his money back, but there'll always be another one to replace them.

[hypochondriac]

Why do you bother? Seriously. You come on here, along with Alpine, Hypo and Dalek and just complain. Why?

 

I used to love this site, but it has really, REALLY got worse. Everytime I see a thread with any of you on, I know it's going to be a poor, and frankly depressing, thread. But that's what contrarians do. They tell the majority they are wrong, until they are in the majority, then change tilt.

 

You could say, 'Just don't read the threads', but the issue is you are all so prolific you can't get away.

 

IMO, this forum is dying, and you guys are part of the problem.

 

Nope. I'm quite often positive, it's just that people ignore those posts and pick up on the so called 'negative' ones because it suits their agenda.

 

IMO this forum has been in decline for a while, and the loudmouth posters who won't accept other points of view and attack the poster instead of addressing perfectly acceptable points are a large part of the problem.

[Raging Bull]

There are so many of you moaning that this site is going down the shi**r bla bla Bo**ocks.....why do you all keep coming back and uping your ever so impressive post counts. Why dont you just f**k off and don't come back?

[hypochondriac]

Prophetic!

 

Posts moaning about the content of other posts are infinitely more boring than any other type.

[hypochondriac]

Not to mention the 'hype' mostly comes from the fans in the first place. The club just try to go about their business in their own way... one small piece of info from this dinner about 'big bids' gets passed on in good faith and here we are.

 

Some fans create their own expectations and then moan when the club fail to meet them.

 

I would argue that a fair bit of the hype comes from the OS and it's write up when a player signs tbf.

[hypochondriac]

There are so many of you moaning that this site is going down the shi**r bla bla Bo**ocks.....why do you all keep coming back and uping your ever so impressive post counts. Why dont you just f**k off and don't come back?

 

I like this site. I think it's interesting and useful. It is however less interesting and useful than it used to be.

[Dig Dig]

Nope. I'm quite often positive, it's just that people ignore those posts and pick up on the so called 'negative' ones because it suits their agenda.

 

IMO this forum has been in decline for a while, and the loudmouth posters who won't accept other points of view and attack the poster instead of addressing perfectly acceptable points are a large part of the problem.

 

Loudmouth? Says Mr 13729

[SB]

I miss Keith.

[dune]

I miss Keith.

 

"Mike asked ME to ask you...."

[saintbob40]

We have had a few injuries and lost a few games and that happens to all teams. I haven't wet my knickers just yet because I know we have the players to get promotion.

 

I believe that with all the players fit (i.e those who got us to the top of the table) we will get back to the top of the table.

 

I am intrigued by Lee's arrvial and I am glad that Puncheon has dropped his baseball bat and is back on the bus.......we just need a spark to reignite the season and I have a feeling one or both of these two may well just give us that.

 

The key to the season is a bit of luck with injuries and not who we bring in next....we are already good enough!

[shurlock]

With respect and all, this is utter hogwash. Relying on Puncheon and a Japanese striker and Spanish midfielder who have never played in England before to pull us out of our declining form is at best a very risky strategy.

 

Last time I looked, there was still four or so days till the transfer window shuts.

[hypochondriac]

Loudmouth? Says Mr 13729

 

There was more than one criteria than loudmouth.

[St_Tel49]

I think you might just be missing the point. You put in "big bids", it is fairly reasonable to expect to have to pay pretty big wages and deal with sh1ty agents. What is the point of doing the "big bids" then? I'm no overly bothered about bringing in new players and I agree about not-overspending, just don't like the pointless hype.

I doubt if any of the Hype emanated from us, it is not NC's style - more likely to be the other club trying to force the price up

[hypochondriac]

I doubt if any of the Hype emanated from us, it is not NC's style - more likely to be the other club trying to force the price up

 

I don't think we are guilty of hyping signings before we have signed them. The only thing I question is putting big money bids in for players of we are then not prepared to pay the wages that would quite obviously go along with that. Why not go for a lesser quality of player if that is our attitude?

[Minty]

I would argue that a fair bit of the hype comes from the OS and it's write up when a player signs tbf.

But we're talking specifically about new signings in the transfer window. The club hasn't hyped that up. Adkins has responded when asked in interviews, and now this minor comment at a dinner with the Chairman, neither of which I would class as hype and certainly nothing that deserves some of the rhetoric above with people criticising Nicola for 'not doing his job' because we haven't met their personal expectations.

 

Personally, I would like us to make another signing or two before the window shuts, but that's not the point at hand. Some of the criticism for a perceived lack of activity is, IMO, misguided and partly comes from some fans own hyping up of the situation.

 

FWIW I agree that sometimes the OS press releases can be OTT but if people haven't got used to that by now, I wonder where they've been.

[Minty]

I don't think we are guilty of hyping signings before we have signed them. The only thing I question is putting big money bids in for players of we are then not prepared to pay the wages that would quite obviously go along with that. Why not go for a lesser quality of player if that is our attitude?

As I said above, in order to even discuss wages, we have to get permission from a club to talk to a player under contract. That usually means submitting a bid which they want to accept. The two are not directly linked and a players wages do not necessarily automatically link to the transfer value of a player.

[hypochondriac]

But we're talking specifically about new signings in the transfer window. The club hasn't hyped that up. Adkins has responded when asked in interviews, and now this minor comment at a dinner with the Chairman, neither of which I would class as hype and certainly nothing that deserves some of the rhetoric above with people criticising Nicola for 'not doing his job' because we haven't met their personal expectations.

 

Personally, I would like us to make another signing or two before the window shuts, but that's not the point at hand. Some of the criticism for a perceived lack of activity is, IMO, misguided and partly comes from some fans own hyping up of the situation.

 

FWIW I agree that sometimes the OS press releases can be OTT but if people haven't got used to that by now, I wonder where they've been.

 

Yep that's a pretty fair comment. If very one was as even handed as you minty this forum would be a lot better!

[St_Tel49]

I don't think we are guilty of hyping signings before we have signed them. The only thing I question is putting big money bids in for players of we are then not prepared to pay the wages that would quite obviously go along with that. Why not go for a lesser quality of player if that is our attitude?

I think that someone else has answered this. You cannot talk to the player until the bid is accepted and its at that point you find that the player (or his agent) has a hugely inflated view of their own value. Is Hooper a better forward than Lambert? If he isn't then we should not be paying him more than Lambert irrespective how much we have had to pay Celtic in order to talk to him.

[View From The Top]

My oppo at Wolves said that one of the reasons this window has been so quiet is that NPC clubs have been unwilling to pay the wages demanded by players who would be moving down from the EPL.

 

We are not alone in not wanting to pay really stupid wages.

[hypochondriac]

I think that someone else has answered this. You cannot talk to the player until the bid is accepted and its at that point you find that the player (or his agent) has a hugely inflated view of their own value. Is Hooper a better forward than Lambert? If he isn't then we should not be paying him more than Lambert irrespective how much we have had to pay Celtic in order to talk to him.

 

I would argue that if you are paying a substantial amount for a player, then you would have a fairly good idea of how much they would want in wages. I would also argue that Hooper has performed admirably in the champions league and is young and therefore his monetary value is higher than lamberts (although his value to us would not be.) I'm not desperate for us to sign hooper, I just want us to sign another decent striker and maybe a cb as cover to really have a go at winning promotion like Adkins said. If we fail to strengthen further and we finish third and don't go up then it will be extremely disappointing.

 

I can guarantee now though you will have the likes of nickg saying how ecstatic they are that we were higher than they thought at the start of the season and how we should be thankful we finished as high as we did. I just think we are in an amazing position and to not grab it with both hands (which clearly Adkins wants to do) would be a real shame.

[Matthew Le God]

I would also argue that Hooper has performed admirably in the champions league.

 

He played in one qualifying game vs Braga (admittedly he scored in it) and not in any group stage games. He has two goals in Europa League games vs Udinese and Rennes.

[Minty]

I just think we are in an amazing position and to not grab it with both hands (which clearly Adkins wants to do) would be a real shame.

I doubt many fans feel any different. I don't, I agree completely. But as with all things, a balance has to be struck and breaking a wage structure to get one player could undermine everything if other members of the squad know about it. 'Together as one' as Adkins would say, probably applies to the wage structure and overall playing budget just as much as anything else.