Cortese is the issue, NOT Adkins

[mitch01]

I'm very confident there is work being done, as Nige always says, behind the scenes. I have nothing but confidence in NC and NA. Look at what they've done so far. If we were sitting in 15th and playing like we did last night then I'd perhaps start to question our (in)activity in the transfer market. We're not. We're in the top two and have made some decent signings already as well as the intention to sign a very good striker in Hooper. But we won't pay over the odds and I'm happy that we won't.

[notnowcato]

Honestly, the low level wummery on here is embarrassing.

 

Dune is the issue here NOT Turkey.

[sticksaint]

I see the usual suspects are here moaning!People should remember where we were 3 years ago . I reckon that dune and a couple of others if they won the lottery of £40m (but shared it with someone else) meaning they only got £20m would have a moan about that too!

[Gemmel]

What do we buy these players with? The magic beans that many thought Lowe kept hidden which should have been used to purchase that famed Ambition that the brain dead kept going on about. Just as with Lowe if the money aint there it aint there.

 

Cortese is just an employee of the club, not the owner so I can't believe if he is sitting on a pot of cash he is choosing not to spend it as it is very much in his interest to get the club promoted. Marcus is gone and now the ownership of the club rests in his family who have very little interest in football in general much less a club in a foreign land that their husband/Father purchased shortly before his death.

 

The club is running at a heavy day to day loss and even with the Chamberlain money the Liebherr family have still made a substantial loss of SFC and continue to do so with each passing day. It's unrealsitic to think they are going to spend millions more on new players.

 

We have dramatically overacheived this season, many of us thought a mid-table finish was the best we could hope for.

 

Yes, we got hammered yesterday, but was that a surprise? If you look at the Leicester team 1 thru 11 that was on the pitch last night, I don't think I would pick one of our players over theirs.

 

Absoulute tosh.

 

 

Stolen from another board but highlights your flaws;

 

As for making a loss, we haven't seen this years books yet (Due out later in the year) I expect we will still be making a loss, but with average gates around 24k, we won't be a million miles away from break even, but that's not where the financially rewards are made.

 

Liebherr paid 12 million for the club ....for everything. To get us where we are now it has cost a further 15 million, with a 3 million repaid against the loan note. So everything together the total outlay is 24 million.

 

Then there is the 15 million for Chamberlain, bringing the net outlay down to 9 million.

 

The assets;

 

Stadium (10 mill?)

Club (Golden Share ??)

Squad (15 - 20 mill)

Training ground (2 mill)

Jacksons farm ( 4 - 15 mill depending on planning permission)

 

Properties dotted around ocan village, Hill lane and Chandlers ford (4 mill)

 

So at the highend, the 9 million defiect is worth around 50 million and then chuck in promotion and throw another 70 million on top of that.

 

A very profitable bit of business

[Daren W]

Well, we have probably spent over 1/4 of the oxo money so far...and we've had confirmed bids for other players so it's not like we've been completely inactive thus far so I have every expectation that we will see more money spent. But if some or most of that money has to go towards balancing the books then so be it, I can understand that.

 

Yes, every club would like to bring youngsters through but not many have the infrasture and ability to actually do it successfully like we do.

 

My original point though was that just because NC talked about adopting a Barca model, it doesn't mean you can have the expectation that we will be making multi million pound signings. It's all relative.

 

I think we're a few years away from that sort of thing... The fact the youngsters are being blooded in cup games is a positive step but we're we're quite some distance away from doing that...

 

I think both camps have a point here, we do need to strengthen. One of the major pluses we had was a strong bench, yesterdays game, and most games we've lost funnily enough, had a weak bench with no impact players that can change games.

 

We just need to get the right players, not the right now players, otherwise we've learnt nothing from the Lowe years. How many players did we buy cheaply, never use and then give away?

Let's not ever repeat that...

[Dig Dig]

I think we're a few years away from that sort of thing... The fact the youngsters are being blooded in cup games is a positive step but we're we're quite some distance away from doing that...

 

I think both camps have a point here, we do need to strengthen. One of the major pluses we had was a strong bench, yesterdays game, and most games we've lost funnily enough, had a weak bench with no impact players that can change games.

 

We just need to get the right players, not the right now players, otherwise we've learnt nothing from the Lowe years. How many players did we buy cheaply, never use and then give away?

Let's not ever repeat that...

 

I agree and I'm not saying that we are there yet....probably won't be for a good few years. I was just pointing out that bringing up NC's comments about adopting a Barca model shouldn't be used as a stick to beat him with over our alledged lack of investment in the team.

[adrian lord]

CMS is having a **** year at the Seagulls - we were lucky not to sign that league 1 level player.

[St Marco]

Not sure what is more funny, this thread or that Hypo keeps saying he is in the know??

 

How people have such short memories hey. Was only a few weeks ago we were top of the league, about to beat the countries unbeaten home record, most wins in a row etc. We were 6 points clear of second. Playing great football that was winning plaudits from around the world. Some even saying it was like Barca.

 

But now we have a blip, we have a couple of bad results meaning we are no longer top and the toys get launched out the pram.....

 

So now it is Cortese's fault because we have not signed the people mentioned in the media? Is it his fault a supposed £6m bid was rejected by Celtic? And all the other bids? How about the signings in the summer and already this window? Fox = £1.8m, Cork = £1m-£2m, Jos = £1m, = De Ridder = probably around £1m and so on. What do people expect? We get a new team every year or throw money around like we are Man City?

 

On top of that have other teams been spending the cash then? As far as I can see nobody has, they wait until the last day as always because it means clubs get desperate.

 

Cortese has a lot of faults but I think some people forget where we were before he came in. We sit 2nd with one of the best squads in the league. Some of the best youngsters in the country.

Roll back to last weekend when we were 1st, how could we have done any better?

 

To me it seems some bitter people have been waiting, hoping that this club get's knocked off that top spot so they can come out with crap like this. Some would rather see us lose then see us win. That is the age of the internet mong.

 

I expect this thread to be re-bumped in the next week and a few people to look like bigger idiots then they already do.

[ART]

All the players listed are former players who have played for Atkins. Cortese is protecting Saints interests of insisted he is sold not loaned out. League rules prevent a player playing for more than 2 clubs in any one season. Should he not be sold by the end of the window, we still have a choice to loan him out, or come to an arrangement where the manager is able to make use of his services. Nicola shows wisdom in his decisions.

It's the same old, same old, on here every transfer window. If we're going to buy players, the best ones arrive at the last minute or have been ready to sign early on. Patience is a virtue, with Saints it's a lif time quest

[hypochondriac]

Not sure what is more funny, this thread or that Hypo keeps saying he is in the know??

 

How people have such short memories hey. Was only a few weeks ago we were top of the league, about to beat the countries unbeaten home record, most wins in a row etc. We were 6 points clear of second. Playing great football that was winning plaudits from around the world. Some even saying it was like Barca.

 

But now we have a blip, we have a couple of bad results meaning we are no longer top and the toys get launched out the pram.....

 

So now it is Cortese's fault because we have not signed the people mentioned in the media? Is it his fault a supposed £6m bid was rejected by Celtic? And all the other bids? How about the signings in the summer and already this window? Fox = £1.8m, Cork = £1m-£2m, Jos = £1m, = De Ridder = probably around £1m and so on. What do people expect? We get a new team every year or throw money around like we are Man City?

 

On top of that have other teams been spending the cash then? As far as I can see nobody has, they wait until the last day as always because it means clubs get desperate.

 

Cortese has a lot of faults but I think some people forget where we were before he came in. We sit 2nd with one of the best squads in the league. Some of the best youngsters in the country.

Roll back to last weekend when we were 1st, how could we have done any better?

 

To me it seems some bitter people have been waiting, hoping that this club get's knocked off that top spot so they can come out with crap like this. Some would rather see us lose then see us win. That is the age of the internet mong.

 

I expect this thread to be re-bumped in the next week and a few people to look like bigger idiots then they already do.

 

I'm not itk. It's what an ex player told me yesterday in hospitality.

[yorkiesaint]

I'm just speculating but isn't there a limit on how many clubs a player can play for in a year? If we plan to sell puncheon that would explain why he won't even get a chance in the first team.

 

I think the sensible thing would be to judge at the end of the transfer window. How much did Norwich spend last year in Jan?

[ART]

I'm just speculating but isn't there a limit on how many clubs a player can play for in a year? If we plan to sell puncheon that would explain why he won't even get a chance in the first team.

 

I think the sensible thing would be to judge at the end of the transfer window. How much did Norwich spend last year in Jan?

 

The real reasons why Puncheon is in the situation he is was posted on BBC 11 days ago. Here is the article which a lot of folk including Puncheon himself must have missed.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/16550877.stm

[Viking Warrior]

I personnaly think NC has done a fanatastic job behind the scenes for the club. His vision and strategy is one of the best.

 

The club are going in the right direction . We are still on track for promotion and yes we had another hiccup lastnight . these things happen. Rickie and Co will be back soon. So please guys stopping moaning. Look forwad to the next game

 

Oh if some of you think that NC is now they anti christ its better the devil you know and than the one you know.

Perhaps some of you want crouchm dalleu and co back sheeeez

[Viking Warrior]

Thanks for your Post Art . Its quite clear the club are taking a pragmatic and sensible approach re Puncheon

[david in sweden]

Turkish compiled this list:

 

Craig Mackaill Smith

Charlie Austin

Billy Sharp

Jay Rodriqiuez

Jermain Beckford

Nicky Maynard

Gary Hooper

Jordan Rhodes

Lukas Jutekitz .......What do all these names have in common?

 

 

As I see it, it's a list of " supposedly good strikers" , who the media ..and some people on this site have linked with us over the past 6 months, bu (as far as I can see)..we have admitted to bids for 2 or maybe 3 of them who for good reasons didn't want to come, or our offer didn't match the valution of their clubs (that happens all the time)

 

..How do you think we got £12 million for AOC ? If the buyer is desperate enough ..he'll pay the price.

Personally, I'm not sold on the idea of buying more than 2 of them... and they've both played for Adkins before ....

[suntouched]

I personnaly think NC has done a fanatastic job behind the scenes for the club. His vision and strategy is one of the best.

 

Really. So, exactly what has he done that is so fantastic behind the scenes? What is the vision and strategy that is one of the best?

[S-Clarke]

Really. So, exactly what has he done that is so fantastic behind the scenes? What is the vision and strategy that is one of the best?

 

Saints Foundation is a great initiative and he is the mastermind behind that.

 

The club now has strategies all over. There was a real restructuring process when they first game in, alot of really good people lost their jobs - but that had to happen in order for them to mould the club how they wanted to.

 

He has some good idea's, he's a forward thinking guy and to be honest when you compare him to the days of Wilde then you don't know how lucky we have it right now.

 

Seriously, some people need to take a step back, rewind a few years to what we did have....and then realise what we do have is actually pretty damn solid.

 

He's done some silly things, but I think he's learnt from his mistakes - because this is all pretty new to him as well let's not forget.

 

Be grateful, he didn't have to convince Markus to rescue us out of the mire did he?

[ART]

I forgot to add about Nicola's great forward thinking in signing Japanese player Tandanari Lee. Lee might be used during the remainder of the season, but I am convinced his signing was lined up for the Premiership, where Japanese TV interest and shirt sales will pour millions into the clubs coffers.

[70's Mike]

Suppose my big fear is whether it is possible for a medium sized English Club to have 50% of its players come through its youth set up and opearate at the top level.

[ART]

Suppose my big fear is whether it is possible for a medium sized English Club to have 50% of its players come through its youth set up and opearate at the top level.

This has been my own fear and the closer we move to a Premiership return the bigger the demons seem to be. Just look at the fan base, so quick to return to tearing each other, the players and now the Chairman apart. Here is France Academies are generally for funding a club with sales of decent young players to those willing to pay. It will take many years of top flight to reach the point where we produce players for our own first team. I don't have the details but not even Man United do so. Arsenal try but still need to bring in players like Walcott and Chamberlain not to mention big name savings.

Our greatest danger isn't the Chairman, the manager or players, it's our own very traumatised and unforgiving supporters.

[Joesaint]

Not reading through the thread but completely disagree.

[Viking Warrior]

Thanks saint Clarke and co I wasn't going to waste my breath on someone with only 7 posts . But sun touched I stand by my comments re NC . If you knew anything about saints over the last decade or so then you would know where I'm coming from . And tandari lee has arrived . Onwards and upwards

[(not THE) Kevin Moore]

He needs to get his arse into gear and get in the players the manager wants. And once he's got those players in he needs to keep his nose out and let the manager manage them.

 

Now I like to think I am a fairly reasonable person, and I'd like to come up with a reasoned and articulate argument but what's the point, you clearly have an agenda and you will ram it down everyone's throat at any given opportunity, I would far rather have a professional like cortese in charge than someone like Wilde or crouch who gave into pressure from dickhead fans and spent stupid money gambling on promotion.

 

We'll get the right players in, within our price range and on our terms. If it happens late in the window it'll be because they are good and their club want a good price, of course we could sign any number of squad fillers right now to appease 'fans' such as yourself who lack any kind of perspective.

 

So, in summary, kindly f*ck. Right. Off!

[JustMike]

Lol at this thread still going!

[Dalek2003]

A lot of people barking up the wrong tree.

 

NC plan this season was for consolidation. We were never going to bust the bank this season and the club has to do things in a sustainable way.

 

Our great start probably took NC by surprise and then the expectations of some of the fans rose to an unreasonable level.

 

We have not really spent much in the jan window and as I said countless times the Hooper bid was never going to come off but fooled the fans in thinking that we were at least serious about strengthening the squad.

 

We are second, had a fantastic start and lower mid table is where we will finish. You heard it from the Dalek first (back in August), and you know I am once again going to be proved supremely right !

[NickG]

If by issue you mean...

 

what chairman is the only one to take a team from minus 10 points at the bottom of league 1 to top of the championship in 2 1/2 years..

 

or...

 

 

who is the only chairman who has had 5 transfer windows and move the club forward with signings to a higher level in every single one of them..

 

then yes the issue is Cortese.

 

 

Good job idiot fans from here aren't running the club - would have given up on 2nd last year and concentrated on play offs!

[CB Fry]

Can't help thinking we'd have been a stronger outfit if we'd managed to sign Gorkks and/or Jamal in the summer. Those two deals both collapsed for unclear reasons, not that the cult-of-Cortese types on here would ever admit that the man did anything wrong or could do anything wrong whatsoever, ever.

[doddisalegend]

If there is one thing I'm certain off it is despite the hot air on here not one poster has any idea what NC does and doesn't do or what he does or doesn't think... not a f ucking clue. All we have around here is alot of assumptions.... My assumption is it's in his best interests to get saints to the PL.....without bankrupting us

 

On a totally different subject how long does it take to get my full membership staus back.......you've taken my money. Whats the point of having an automatic renewal payment if I have to become registered user for a week........ these f ucking adverts are doing my head in....I never realised there where so many good looking single birds just waiting to meet me...

[latter day saint]

i thought the op was leaving to the greener pastures of the UI ?

[Bearsy]

Can't help thinking we'd have been a stronger outfit if we'd managed to sign Gorkks and/or Jamal in the summer. Those two deals both collapsed for unclear reasons, not that the cult-of-Cortese types on here would ever admit that the man did anything wrong or could do anything wrong whatsoever, ever.

 

Instead of Jos you mean? Dunno, are they really a lot better than our boxhead?

[Dig Dig]

Can't help thinking we'd have been a stronger outfit if we'd managed to sign Gorkks and/or Jamal in the summer. Those two deals both collapsed for unclear reasons, not that the cult-of-Cortese types on here would ever admit that the man did anything wrong or could do anything wrong whatsoever, ever.

 

Come on CB Fry, I know you want to join. The Cult of Cortese (CoC) meet every thursday in the basement of an undisclosed Italian restaurant. There is a mass suicide planned for the day he leaves and it would be a shame if you missed out. Dune tried to get in last week but wasn't allowed by the CoC committee so it explains this thread.

 

So come on, tear down that old tired MLT poster from your bedroom wall and replace with one of our esteemed leader. You need salvation before it's too late.

[CB Fry]

Come on CB Fry, I know you want to join. The Cult of Cortese (CoC) meet every thursday in the basement of an undisclosed Italian restaurant. There is a mass suicide planned for the day he leaves and it would be a shame if you missed out. Dune tried to get in last week but wasn't allowed by the CoC committee so it explains this thread.

 

So come on, tear down that old tired MLT poster from your bedroom wall and replace with one of our esteemed leader. You need salvation before it's too late.

 

I was happy to pay the membership fee to join, but decided against it when there was a three quid booking fee and I had to pay to park outside the restaurant.

[RonManager]

Come on CB Fry, I know you want to join. The Cult of Cortese (CoC) meet every thursday in the basement of an undisclosed Italian restaurant. There is a mass suicide planned for the day he leaves and it would be a shame if you missed out. Dune tried to get in last week but wasn't allowed by the CoC committee so it explains this thread.

 

So come on, tear down that old tired MLT poster from your bedroom wall and replace with one of our esteemed leader. You need salvation before it's too late.

 

1-0

[RonManager]

I was happy to pay the membership fee to join, but decided against it when there was a three quid booking fee and I had to pay to park outside the restaurant.

 

1-1

[Dig Dig]

1-1

 

Touché indeed!

[alpine_saint]

If by issue you mean...

 

what chairman is the only one to take a team from minus 10 points at the bottom of league 1 to top of the championship in 2 1/2 years..

 

or...

 

 

who is the only chairman who has had 5 transfer windows and move the club forward with signings to a higher level in every single one of them..

 

then yes the issue is Cortese.

 

 

Good job idiot fans from here aren't running the club - would have given up on 2nd last year and concentrated on play offs!

 

Christ, every one of your posts contains the same 3 or 4 worn out statments nowadays..........

[SuperMikey]

P!sses me off when people criticise Cortese. I think he's running the club properly, which is something that we can't claim to have had for....well, nigh on 10-15 years really. He doesn't want to pay over the odds for players, and isn't going to be held to random by agents and all the other hangers-on that players seem to have nowadays. He's turned us around, hired a manager who built a great side and won us a cup final, then hired another manager who's seen us promoted and also top the Championship for almost 4 months. To criticise him now is just stupid I think. It's clear that we're making bids for players, but bids don't always come off. Have a bit of patience and stick behind the man who brought Markus to the club and has run us properly.

[dune]

Lol at this thread still going!

 

Lol at your KFC flag locked in a store room!

[alpine_saint]

P!sses me off when people criticise Cortese. I think he's running the club properly, which is something that we can't claim to have had for....well, nigh on 10-15 years really. He doesn't want to pay over the odds for players, and isn't going to be held to random by agents and all the other hangers-on that players seem to have nowadays. He's turned us around, hired a manager who built a great side and won us a cup final, then hired another manager who's seen us promoted and also top the Championship for almost 4 months. To criticise him now is just stupid I think. It's clear that we're making bids for players, but bids don't always come off. Have a bit of patience and stick behind the man who brought Markus to the club and has run us properly.

 

Once in a while a business needs to take a risk if it is going to take a significant step forward. I think the time has come now for SFC. We can organically grow the squad slowly, knowing that we will be "thereabouts" at the end of each season, or we can be a bit bolder and sign a couple of quality players a bit above what normally our financial structure would tolerate, and improve our chances of making it to the next step with the financial rewards that come with it.

 

We know that if we win promotion, this year or next, we are going to face a significant step function in wage demands and transfer fees. I do trust NC to judge the right time, I think, but from where I am looking having sat on the top of the table for 4 months and only in the last few days with a decimated squad having fallen to 2nd, the time is now. The poor form and loss of standing of the past 2 months can still be turned around with prompt and bold action.

[SO16_Saint]

The club has a great feel about it right now, and that is coming right from the top.

 

NA and NC want the right type of person to play for the club. Someone who takes an interest in the local community and actually give a damn about the club and the fans.

 

Before you speak to players, you cant get the feel for them - so its completely believable that we took the view that suggested targets didn't have the right 'feel' when talking to them.

 

It's not every club that can attract the commercial manager from Man City.

 

This club IS going places, and I for one am glad to be involved

[dune]

It's not every club that can attract the commercial manager from Man City.

 

[SO16_Saint]

 

?

 

Don't see your point?

[dune]

?

 

Don't see your point?

 

It's right up there with Ruperts catering.

[ribbo]

Honestly, the low level wummery on here is embarrassing.

 

Dune is the issue here NOT Turkey.

 

bang on and i thought he quit!

[SO16_Saint]

It's right up there with Ruperts catering.

 

Correct.

 

NC has carried on what SCW started a few years back. We want to be the best in every area we can, be it on the football field or off it.

 

We want the best keeper, defence, etc etc and that follows through to the commercial side of the club (business).

 

If we get the right commercial model, it will give us more income, and will enable us to buy better players, and enable us to compete in this and higher leagues/competitions.

[Saint Malc]

I think the CoC experts are really missing the point.

 

We have really struggled since early December primarily because we don't have key back-up players (which I'm sure everyone can agree with). It may be for perfectly acceptable reasons but Cortese has not, or not been able to, address this major issue. So he may not be as good at his job as some of you may think.

[alpine_saint]

CoC ?

[The Kraken]

I think the CoC experts are really missing the point.

 

We have really struggled since early December primarily because we don't have key back-up players (which I'm sure everyone can agree with). It may be for perfectly acceptable reasons but Cortese has not, or not been able to, address this major issue. So he may not be as good at his job as some of you may think.

 

I think you're somewhat right; however its not that we haven't acquired good enough backup players. Its that we haven't brought in the one or two quality first team players we've clearly been after, which would have made players such as Connolly and Guly our new backups. As a first team pairing those two have been hit and miss; with a quality first choice strike force of Lambert plus another, having Guly and Connolly in reserve is a pretty damn good array of options.

[Sour Mash]

Correct.

 

NC has carried on what SCW started a few years back. We want to be the best in every area we can, be it on the football field or off it.

 

We want the best keeper, defence, etc etc and that follows through to the commercial side of the club (business).

 

If we get the right commercial model, it will give us more income, and will enable us to buy better players, and enable us to compete in this and higher leagues/competitions.

Please tell me you're joking? Aprt from whacking on stuff like £3 ticket tax and car parking fees, we're nothing special when it comes to being forward thinking commercially and making additional money.

[suntouched]

Please tell me you're joking? Aprt from whacking on stuff like £3 ticket tax and car parking fees, we're nothing special when it comes to being forward thinking commercially and making additional money.

 

Spot on! It's been mentioned before, but as an example of this, what about the perimeter ad boards. There are the one's near the pitch and the one's near the fans (facing the pitch). The one's near the fans are almost 100% internal advertising (Saints Foundation etc) and the one's near the pitch (which i guess are the big bucks) contain so many ads for the key sposnor, they just have to be part of their contract. So, given that we have had gates of over 30k this year and have been top since September, we're not getting the adverts in? How come? Overpriced perhaps?