dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 10 years of a tax and spend Labour government and the UK's debt level is second only to that of Japan among major economies. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/news/article-2089295/The-horrifying-graph-shows-UKs-households-businesses-Government-hold-debt-nation-bar-Japan.html#ixzz1k82ZsPSm I hope those stupid enough to have voted them in have learnt their lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 (edited) Sorry, but the concept of debt being a destructive influence is something Labouristas will never truly grasp. Live the dream and burden our children for the decadence. So selfish. Edited 21 January, 2012 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 (edited) "The alarming rise since the height of the financial crisis has been fuelled by debt in the financial sector as people seek to borrow their way out of the economic slump, according to consultancy McKinsey." What exactly would you have wanted the Government to do ? More direct regulation of the lending companies and financial sector ? Edited 21 January, 2012 by badgerx16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Sorry, but the concept of debt being a destructive influence is something Labouristas will never truly grasp. Live the dream and burden our children for the decadence. So selfish. You are correct Colin. I feel for the likes of Super Mikey and Saintandy666 who are the generation that are coming through into the car crash created by Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 "The alarming rise since the height of the financial crisis has been fuelled by debt in the financial sector as people seek to borrow their way out of the economic slump, according to consultancy McKinsey." What exactly would you have wanted the Government to do ? More direct regulation of the lending companies ? Maybe if the one eyed idiot hadn't declared boom and bust was cured by him then families up and down the country wouldn't have indebted themselves to the extent they have. He encouraged the binge. FACT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 [video=youtube;clHt-qdXzrQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clHt-qdXzrQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintmatt Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Maybe if the one eyed idiot hadn't declared boom and bust was cured by him then families up and down the country wouldn't have indebted themselves to the extent they have. He encouraged the binge. FACT. The individual chose to borrow more than they could afford, that is the fact. It's a shame certain people always look to blame others for their mistakes.. Take responsibility, FFS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Casino Capitalism is to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 The individual chose to borrow more than they could afford, that is the fact. It's a shame certain people always look to blame others for their mistakes.. Take responsibility, FFS. Absolutely, yet the attitude of dipping into Credit cards as a matter of course has become a cultural norm now. The acceptance of debt as something that is freely available to all with very little asked is terrifying. I once decided to see how much 'money' I could get access to immediately (yes it was a slow night) and I was stunned when HSBC immediately, and via an online calculation agreed to extend my overdraft by thousands, would offer me a loan with no questions asked and would increase the limits on my credit cards. All in I worked out that I could obtain £20,000 WITHOUT SO MUCH AS AN INTERVIEW and with no difficulty whatsoever. It is no wonder there are people in difficulty when they can so easily obtain such sums. There is such little realisation of the long term repurcussions that it's no wonder many people are in trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 The individual chose to borrow more than they could afford, that is the fact. It's a shame certain people always look to blame others for their mistakes.. Take responsibility, FFS. I agree to an extent, but there are A LOT of thick people in this country who a) vote Labour and b) listen to what Labour say to them. I hope they've learnt their lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 I agree to an extent, but there are A LOT of thick people in this country who a) vote Labour and b) listen to what Labour say to them. I hope they've learnt their lesson. There are just as many thick people who read the Daily Mail and vote UKIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 The only positive to have come out of this mess is that it is a perfect opportunity to massacre the public sector. I would be doing just as the Tories are doing and sacking as many as possible to shrink the sector as much as possible for two reasons: 1. It's bloated with non jobs that are not needed. 2. It's an opportunity to create Tory voters because if you're in the private sector you'd be a fool to vote Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 There are just as many thick people who read the Daily Mail and vote UKIP. Would this be the same UKIP that have been bang on the money every time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 And what did they spend it on again?...."gambling with our children's futures" pahh what a load of bunkum. Perhaps you should have a word with the poor, the sick, the disabled and the elderly who are currently being treated like pieces of dog muck under this sham of a coalition; but mybe not a word with the rich toffee-nosef bankers who caused so many problems for the global ecomony who are currently laughing all the way to the preverbial bank with their millionaire Tory mates. Besides, I assume you all remember the 80's? so spending what they did was wrong, but have a look at what they were landed with by the Major government and why it took such a hammering and as a disabled person awaiting the removal of the once assistance that helps me into work in the name of cuts by this mess of a tory party I think you all above should be ashamed of yourselves. Labour may have gotten it quite wrong but not in a vindictive way like the nasty party you all above appear to belong to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 And what did they spend it on again?...."gambling with our children's futures" pahh what a load of bunkum. Perhaps you should have a word with the poor, the sick, the disabled and the elderly who are currently being treated like pieces of dog muck under this sham of a coalition; but mybe not a word with the rich toffee-nosef bankers who caused so many problems for the global ecomony who are currently laughing all the way to the preverbial bank with their millionaire Tory mates. Besides, I assume you all remember the 80's? so spending what they did was wrong, but have a look at what they were landed with by the Major government and why it took such a hammering and as a disabled person awaiting the removal of the once assistance that helps me into work in the name of cuts by this mess of a tory party I think you all above should be ashamed of yourselves. Labour may have gotten it quite wrong but not in a vindictive way like the nasty party you all above appear to belong to. Can't you get someone to push you instead of expecting the state to ferry you around? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badgerx16 Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Would this be the same UKIP that have been bang on the money every time? Remind me, how many MPs do they have ? Is it more that the Greens ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Besides, I assume you all remember the 80's? so spending what they did was wrong, but have a look at what they were landed with by the Major government and why it took such a hammering and as a disabled person awaiting the removal of the once assistance that helps me into work in the name of cuts by this mess of a tory party I think you all above should be ashamed of yourselves. Labour may have gotten it quite wrong but not in a vindictive way like the nasty party you all above appear to belong to. I think you are making too many personal assumptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintmatt Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 (edited) And what did they spend it on again?...."gambling with our children's futures" pahh what a load of bunkum. Perhaps you should have a word with the poor, the sick, the disabled and the elderly who are currently being treated like pieces of dog muck under this sham of a coalition; but mybe not a word with the rich toffee-nosef bankers who caused so many problems for the global ecomony who are currently laughing all the way to the preverbial bank with their millionaire Tory mates. Besides, I assume you all remember the 80's? so spending what they did was wrong, but have a look at what they were landed with by the Major government and why it took such a hammering and as a disabled person awaiting the removal of the once assistance that helps me into work in the name of cuts by this mess of a tory party I think you all above should be ashamed of yourselves. Labour may have gotten it quite wrong but not in a vindictive way like the nasty party you all above appear to belong to. Very well said mate (I don't think all the above agree with the OP though!) Edited 21 January, 2012 by saintmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Remind me, how many MPs do they have ? Is it more that the Greens ? The UKIP are a focus group, not a parliamentary party. And in the area where they focus (the EU) the do very well in the polls. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/elections/euro/09/html/ukregion_999999.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Sorry, but the concept of debt being a destructive influence is something Labouristas will never truly grasp. Live the dream and burden our children for the decadence. So selfish. Jesus Christ, How can a Tory call anyone selfish? It's their default setting, chunts the lot of em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anothersaintinsouthsea Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Maybe if the one eyed idiot hadn't declared boom and bust was cured by him then families up and down the country wouldn't have indebted themselves to the extent they have. He encouraged the binge. FACT. Does anyone else find picking on Gordon Brown's disability a bit distasteful or is it just me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 (edited) Jesus Christ, How can a Tory call anyone selfish? It's their default setting, chunts the lot of em! When it comes to politics they are all selfish, regardless of party. That however is a topic for another day. There is no ideal political solution, just personal inclination based on which one of the three main influential parties line up mostly with what you feel. Frankly, to be denounced and dehumanised by simply by stating I am currently in the blue camp is extremely harsh. Edited 21 January, 2012 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Does anyone else find picking on Gordon Brown's disability a bit distasteful or is it just me? Jeremy Clarkson said it. [video=youtube;Qs7V-hnTV30] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Jesus Christ, How can a Tory call anyone selfish? It's their default setting, chunts the lot of em! Incorrect. I vote Tory and I'm very generous. Indeed, the smaller the state and the less tax I pay the more generous I get. I'm much more efficient at distributing my relative wealth than any government of any colour would ever be. Selfish my arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latter day saint Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Does anyone else find picking on Gordon Brown's disability a bit distasteful or is it just me? i thought he was stating a fact ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Does anyone else find the constant trolling a bit sad and distasteful. This is Money is part of the Daily Mail, The Mail on Sunday & Metro Media Group © Associated Newspapers Limited 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Does anyone else find picking on Gordon Brown's disability a bit distasteful or is it just me? People pick on Cameron's disability (aka Nick Clegg) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Incorrect. I vote Tory and I'm very generous. Indeed, the smaller the state and the less tax I pay the more generous I get. I'm much more efficient at distributing my relative wealth than any government of any colour would ever be. Selfish my arse. That is because you believe in the party of freedom - The Conservative Party. Socialists despair at the thought of the public spending their own money. They believe in high taxation, control and bureaucracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Can anyone remember the 'Political Compass' test thread that was on here a few years ago? It let people take a test to see where they are between the four political poles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 This is Money is a brilliant website... Another great article. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/investing/article-2077187/2012-stock-market-predictions-What-shares.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Here we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 (edited) What poor old Dune hasnt realised is that the public sector debt is only 60% of GDP - all the rest is privately borrowed money by individuals and companies - borrowed under a deregulated free market brought about by the Tories. Yes its clear companies borrowed too much and cant pbe trusted to do sensible things - perhaps they needed more government intervention. Dune is attacking the results of Tory policy. Poor, ignorant little Dune. Edited 21 January, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 I have difficulty voting Labour, despite coming from generations of people who did vote Labour. I honestly don't see too much difference between the major parties anymore. All seem to be putting the needs of the financial system above the needs of people, and I think we've developed a very narrow idea of the parameters of politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Can anyone remember the 'Political Compass' test thread that was on here a few years ago? It let people take a test to see where they are between the four political poles. Yeah lol. I was in the centre ground if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Does anyone else find the constant trolling a bit sad and distasteful. This is Money is part of the Daily Mail, The Mail on Sunday & Metro Media Group © Associated Newspapers Limited 2011 Yeah I do too. It's also wrong, boring and obsessive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Fu ck me these threads are so fu cking tedious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Have voted Labour since I was 18. NEVER AGAIN. But in fairness, that curve for the UK was already on the upturn during John Major's time as PM. Look for yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 I have difficulty voting Labour, despite coming from generations of people who did vote Labour. I honestly don't see too much difference between the major parties anymore. All seem to be putting the needs of the financial system above the needs of people, and I think we've developed a very narrow idea of the parameters of politics. true..........and the very last thing most of the tories rich benefactors want is free markets.......they like rigged markets. the tories and labour both like public spending, the tories just spend it on EVEN more bombs, tax breaks for their friends, and bloody stupid projects like HS2 and nuclear power stations for their friends in the big engineering companies to benefit from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Have voted Labour since I was 18. NEVER AGAIN. But in fairness, that curve for the UK was already on the upturn during John Major's time as PM. Look for yourself. I'd describe it more as a rise and then a plateau, but then in comes Brown and off we go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 nuclear power stations for their friends in the big engineering companies to benefit from. What is your alternative to Nuclear going forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hockey_saint Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Can't you get someone to push you instead of expecting the state to ferry you around? Nice to see disability discrimination is popular on this thread....I'm there are warnings up about this and you are treading a fine line. Anyhow, I dont have a wheelchair because my condition is a serious chronic neurological one which, I thank Southampton for having the Wessex Neuro centre; one of the best in the country and built with a lot of the money "thrown away". So you don't find it ironic then that Multi-millionaire David Cameron (son-in-law of an Astor) claimed the Assistance benefit for his now sadly deceased son which he's currently trying to take away from a shedload of seriously disabled people? Still, I suppose you are all children of Thatcher, who in turn was a product of ideals created by Enoch Powell.....says a lot really...oh yes and what was HIS party political words? "Vote Labour" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Nice to see disability discrimination is popular on this thread....I'm there are warnings up about this and you are treading a fine line. Anyhow, I dont have a wheelchair because my condition is a serious chronic neurological one which, I thank Southampton for having the Wessex Neuro centre; one of the best in the country and built with a lot of the money "thrown away". The NHS is such an issue. Just because it does a lot of good at the moment surely it doesn't mean that it is completely beyond reproach. I'm not saying that current coalition plans are right in terms of the NHS, but the utterly precious nature of safeguarding/ringfencing something (crucial role it plays accepted) that may be able to be improved further thorough changes is surely counter productive. Yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Nice to see disability discrimination is popular on this thread....I'm there are warnings up about this and you are treading a fine line. Anyhow, I dont have a wheelchair because my condition is a serious chronic neurological one which, I thank Southampton for having the Wessex Neuro centre; one of the best in the country and built with a lot of the money "thrown away". So you don't find it ironic then that Multi-millionaire David Cameron (son-in-law of an Astor) claimed the Assistance benefit for his now sadly deceased son which he's currently trying to take away from a shedload of seriously disabled people? Still, I suppose you are all children of Thatcher, who in turn was a product of ideals created by Enoch Powell.....says a lot really...oh yes and what was HIS party political words? "Vote Labour" I apologise. It was a stupid thing to say and I didn't mean it. For genuine people like yourself I do sympathise. I hope you work something out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 The NHS is such an issue. Just because it does a lot of good at the moment surely it doesn't mean that it is completely beyond reproach. I'm not saying that current coalition plans are right in terms of the NHS, but the utterly precious nature of safeguarding/ringfencing something (crucial role it plays accepted) that may be able to be improved further thorough changes is surely counter productive. Yes? The NHS' main problem is that politians cant stop tinkering with it - major changes in structures on average every 18 months -regardless which party is in power. Britain spends less on healthcare than any other major European or other G8 nations. The idea that somehow you can constantly twiddle with it to get both improvements and cost reductions is not only wrong - it is the reverse of the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 The NHS is such an issue. Just because it does a lot of good at the moment surely it doesn't mean that it is completely beyond reproach. I'm not saying that current coalition plans are right in terms of the NHS, but the utterly precious nature of safeguarding/ringfencing something (crucial role it plays accepted) that may be able to be improved further thorough changes is surely counter productive. Yes? Agree. A lot of people see 'change' and think 'criticism'. As good as the NHS is as, the faults and inefficiency I hear about behind the scenes are frightening. Just because something is 'brilliant' on the surface does mean it can't be 10 times better under the covers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 The NHS' main problem is that politians cant stop tinkering with it - major changes in structures on average every 18 months -regardless which party is in power. Britain spends less on healthcare than any other major European or other G8 nations. The idea that somehow you can constantly twiddle with it to get improvements is not only wrong - it is the reverse of the truth. It's a fair point, anything that is in a state of permanant flux will never work to it's fullest potential. Nonetheless, it is constantly tinkered with because of it's role in life/death in this country. Most of us are born in NHS hospitals, treated by NHS GP's and eventually cared for by the NHS when matters come to their natural end. It is one of the most precious things in british society, the notion of state funded healthcare and as such it has to receive the constant political attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 21 January, 2012 Agree. A lot of people see 'change' and think 'criticism'. As good as the NHS is as, the faults and inefficiency I hear about behind the scenes are frightening. Just because something is 'brilliant' does mean it can't be 10 times better. I've been in wards visiting and seen the nurses standing around chatting, and what I think is needed is more Matrons to keep them busy. If they have got nothing to do they should be cleaning the ward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 It's a fair point, anything that is in a state of permanant flux will never work to it's fullest potential. Nonetheless, it is constantly tinkered with because of it's role in life/death in this country. Most of us are born in NHS hospitals, treated by NHS GP's and eventually cared for by the NHS when matters come to their natural end. It is one of the most precious things in british society, the notion of state funded healthcare and as such it has to receive the constant political attention. Its a fair point. The NHS is a massive consumer of resources, along with welfare benefits breathtakingly huge. Often the issues which people cite as inefficencies - such as waiting times - are actually down to the system running to 100% of capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 As good as the NHS is as, the faults and inefficiency I hear about behind the scenes are frightening. I had a situation where a product my employer makes could have saved the Shropshire NHS disabilites unit thousands of pounds per year. It was dissaproved on 2 grounds. 1) The department that would reap the benefit was not the one that would make the purchasing decision, and as such this would have been a capital cost for them above their current budget. Therefore no play. 2) The benefitting department feared that their budget would not be freed up by the savings, it would simply be 'cut' from their kitty in the next financial year. So they wouldn't back it either. How can an organisation that is so fragmented, so utterly and terribly departmentalised and clogged by this kind of red tape ever be working to it's best? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 21 January, 2012 Share Posted 21 January, 2012 (edited) I've been in wards visiting and seen the nurses standing around chatting, and what I think is needed is more Matrons to keep them busy. If they have got nothing to do they should be cleaning the ward. Fantastic - Dune's idea of cost saving is to employ an additional I grade nurse at £42,000pa (clinical specialist manager grade) to supervise them. Too many managers in the NHS, exactly what the Daily Mail likes to bang on about. Edited 21 January, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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