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iBooks and Kindle


Dr Who?
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Along the lines of music downloads, I cannot see the need for books in a few years time. Yes you will have the hardened book reader that will not move from the book as they 'like the feel of a book in heir hand'. Overall I can see the 4 bookcases in our house being reduced year on year and having space for other furniture, along with the Cd holder.

 

My wife (English teacher) argued the case that they do not really have anything for eduction, and have not nailed that yet, so books for these purposes will be required. The last night I fine the below article.

 

http://gadgetbox.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/19/10189773-apple-announces-ibooks-2-ibooks-author-and-new-itunes-u

 

 

The way things are going we will not require, bookcases & cd/DVD storage as it will all be on a device iPad deluxe 10 or something.

 

How do you see the book world going, will people not read books in 10/20 years time, as lets face it, people do not use ledgers in big book form, or order books on paper anymore. You do not see people using an abacus, as everything like this is on a computer now. Why would it be any different for books, films and music?

Edited by Dr Who?
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I personally like to have an actually book in my hand when I pass over the money for something so I think alot of people would still buy books.

 

Always thought I just wouldnt trust people around me if I took my kindle etc out with me, potential to lose a hell of alot of money's worth if you have the one device where everything is stored stolen.

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I personally like to have an actually book in my hand when I pass over the money for something so I think alot of people would still buy books.

 

Always thought I just wouldnt trust people around me if I took my kindle etc out with me, potential to lose a hell of alot of money's worth if you have the one device where everything is stored stolen.

 

You're only risking the kindle itself. If you were to lose it, all your books remain available on your account at Amazon.

 

I have an ipad, with ibooks and kindle software downloaded, and an actual kindle. Reading the kindle's "e-ink" is just as good as reading a book, and the battery lasts for weeks. The i-pad, being backlight, looks better at first glance, but tires the eyes after a while, and the battery lasts only 10 hours. It is a much more versatile device than the kindle, but is not a replacement for a real book IMO.

 

I do still read paper books, but much prefer reading on the kindle. It is lighter, and easier to handle than most books ..no more bending back the spine on a paperback etc .. and of course you can effectively carry a whole library in your pocket.

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You're only risking the kindle itself. If you were to lose it, all your books remain available on your account at Amazon.

 

I have an ipad, with ibooks and kindle software downloaded, and an actual kindle. Reading the kindle's "e-ink" is just as good as reading a book, and the battery lasts for weeks. The i-pad, being backlight, looks better at first glance, but tires the eyes after a while, and the battery lasts only 10 hours. It is a much more versatile device than the kindle, but is not a replacement for a real book IMO.

 

I do still read paper books, but much prefer reading on the kindle. It is lighter, and easier to handle than most books ..no more bending back the spine on a paperback etc .. and of course you can effectively carry a whole library in your pocket.

 

I agree with all of that Ken Tone - with a couple of qualifiers.

 

I read a lot of fiction and also a lot of reference material (computing, marketing, business). I cannot read reference books on the Kindle. Something about the research process where I need to search, read, make a note, read some more, search again and cross reference; just doesn't work for me on the kindle. I need to be flicking pages. That said, I cannot read fiction on paper now.

 

The whole ownership process of the Kindle is truly wonderful. The screen is as good as a book - in that you need light to read it and when you have light the contrast between character and page is very easy on the eye. Perhaps better than the book. The process of choosing books, buying books, reviewing books, sharing books with friends and family, making annotations, looking up word definitions,etc. is better than the paper equivalent. I even returned a faulty Kindle, 2 months after the warranty expired and got a brand new one free of charge.

 

My only regret, and I had this moving from CD to digital too, is that my book collection has stopped growing. Mrs SaintBletch doesn't share this regret I should add.

 

My prediction is that people will still collect books in years to come but they will consume them mostly electronically. It'll be akin to vinyl music in my opinion. This is a well understood model that happens with any discontinuous innovation (a new invention that forces you to completely change the way you use that thing), it's called the technology adoption lifecycle and we will always have 'laggards'.

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Agree with saintbletch on Kindle's suitability for a lot of non-fiction 'professional' books.

 

One of the first things I did was snaffle some computer programming books. Really doesn't work too well for that sort of book ( code samples splayed across the page in odd ways, etc ), and I invariably end up relying on the weighty printed volumes.

 

You can get slightly better mileage out of these books by reducing the font size or rotating the page, but it is a pain in the arse.

 

Moving on though, I would expect all of those problems to be addressed. e-readers are still very much in their infancy. The tech will get a lot better.

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Bought my wife a kindle when they came out and we were very impressed. Then got her an ipad2 and the kindl became redundant so I sarted using it (complete with pink leather cover!) and love it (not the cover). I travel alot and have have found it brilliant especially as you can download pdf's so I can take a chunk of work on it too.

 

I also have the kindle app on my iphone which is really handy if I get stuck in a pub (for example) with nothing to read. I find it fantasic that the iphone and kindle sync with each other so they know how far you have got in a book on either device!

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Bought my wife a kindle when they came out and we were very impressed. Then got her an ipad2 and the kindl became redundant so I sarted using it (complete with pink leather cover!) and love it (not the cover). I travel alot and have have found it brilliant especially as you can download pdf's so I can take a chunk of work on it too.

 

I also have the kindle app on my iphone which is really handy if I get stuck in a pub (for example) with nothing to read. I find it fantasic that the iphone and kindle sync with each other so they know how far you have got in a book on either device!

 

I presume you only read for an hour or so at a time? If so I agree with you. If, however, you read a lot on the i-pad, your eyesight will suffer exactly as it does using any other backlit computer screen for hours on end unless you take sensible breaks. Get any headaches? Ever feel your eyesight is a bit blurry?

 

You can also email yourself a pdf on the kindle btw, using your free kindle email account.

 

Overall, from my experience of currently owning both sorts of kindle and an i-pad 2, if you read a lot and want just a book, get a kindle,.. and the cheapest one is fine btw. If you want to also access the web and emails, and read a bit, get an i-pad. (Assuming you can afford the extra cost).

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It's tough for waterstones. Their business isn't 'books', it's selling reading material. On that basis, you just have to move with the market, so if it's largely changing to ebooks, that's where they need to be. That would be just fine if they hadn't helped promote the Kindle so much. They needed a really strong ebook reader to link their own library of ebooks too. Instead, the kindle has become the iphone of that market, which obviously leads the majority of ebook sales to amazon.

 

The big book shops will hopefully remain. Hope so, I love strolling waterstones piccadilly for ages, how could you do that in an ebook store?? Sometimes you just want to find the vague section you want and look at all the books, actually judge some books by their covers, or in non-fiction have a whole subject matter in front of you. It's far harder to do that online, albeit far better if you know exactly what you want.

 

I must admit adriansfc I do really miss strolling round bookshops. It's still something I do if I'm looking for reference books or buying Xmas presents for others and I've always loved that process. Something about the physical book, its smell, the size, the shape, the colours and fonts of the covers I find intoxicating.

 

But for me choosing my next book/series of books is now accomplished using the list of suggested books that Amazon presents you with - based on the books that other people have bought. Taking those recommendations together with the ratings that others have given, seldom fails to recommend a good book. What I do miss is the ability to jump genres and find new types of literature. A bookshop is great for that but now I use book sites including goodreads.com and the "What are you Reading" thread in the Arts forum on here.

 

As for Waterstones' future I agree it's going to be tough for them. They didn't move with the market, but they never really had the opportunity out-flank Amazon in the eBooks market. And when you see the likes of Kodak filing for bankruptcy protection, you realise that when paradigms shift no established business is safe.

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I must admit adriansfc I do really miss strolling round bookshops. It's still something I do if I'm looking for reference books or buying Xmas presents for others and I've always loved that process. Something about the physical book, its smell, the size, the shape, the colours and fonts of the covers I find intoxicating.

 

But for me choosing my next book/series of books is now accomplished using the list of suggested books that Amazon presents you with - based on the books that other people have bought. Taking those recommendations together with the ratings that others have given, seldom fails to recommend a good book. What I do miss is the ability to jump genres and find new types of literature. A bookshop is great for that but now I use book sites including goodreads.com and the "What are you Reading" thread in the Arts forum on here.

 

As for Waterstones' future I agree it's going to be tough for them. They didn't move with the market, but they never really had the opportunity out-flank Amazon in the eBooks market. And when you see the likes of Kodak filing for bankruptcy protection, you realise that when paradigms shift no established business is safe.

 

Ditto all this, and I agree with your point in your earlier post about reference books still being better in "treeware" form. The exception is the built-in dictionaries in e-readers, which are an excellent feature.

 

My 'home library' hasn't stopped growing completely as I'm still tempted by second-hand books in charity shops etc.

 

I still tend to buy CDs then load them onto my i-pod, so I've got the physical entity too. I'd probably do the equivalent with books if a) it were easy to do technically and b) e-books weren't cheaper than real ones.

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The Kindle doesn't solve a problem for me. I only read one book at a time, so there is no benefit having more than one on available at any one time. I have never had a problem finding the book I want in book shops/online/libraries. Books don't really take up that much storage at home, and to be honest look fine against a wall. I can't think of a single reason to buy a Kindle and I'd go so far as to say they are a fad which will be gone within ten years.

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Books won't die, we need paper back-up at least, we need libraries, some just prefer to have books, but most, IMO will prefer to use both. That's why I do.

What is pretty much dead is the chance of making much money in the publishing industry, so that was a good career choice. Anyone got any jobs for me?

 

Although I love the kindle, if I were rich, I'd have a library room packed with proper books. I'd probably have kindle copies too. I also enjoy audiobooks. It's nice to have choice.

 

However, one door closes, another one opens. The ebook revolution opens the door for a lot of people to self-publish in a way that wasn't possible before.

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The Kindle doesn't solve a problem for me. I only read one book at a time, so there is no benefit having more than one on available at any one time. I have never had a problem finding the book I want in book shops/online/libraries. Books don't really take up that much storage at home, and to be honest look fine against a wall. I can't think of a single reason to buy a Kindle and I'd go so far as to say they are a fad which will be gone within ten years.

 

How many books do you pack when you go on holiday? How heavy and bulky is the book you read on the train to London?What do you do if you've nearly finished one book but are going away for a few days? Etc.

E-readers solve all those problems.

 

You're right about the kindle and 10 years I'm sure, but because technology will have moved on again, to another level, not back to books. The situation is analogous to music. Several waves of technology have been and gone, but we don't still buy the LPs, or 78's that existed before those developments. "They'll never replace having your own minstrel" said King Richard. ;)

 

I just hope Amazon etc will make sure that the 'books' purchased and therefore stored in their 'cloud' will work on each new form of hardware that comes out.

Edited by Ken Tone
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The Kindle doesn't solve a problem for me. I only read one book at a time, so there is no benefit having more than one on available at any one time. I have never had a problem finding the book I want in book shops/online/libraries. Books don't really take up that much storage at home, and to be honest look fine against a wall. I can't think of a single reason to buy a Kindle and I'd go so far as to say they are a fad which will be gone within ten years.

 

More power to you Manuel.

 

And personally I love nothing more than having a few beers with a mate whilst listening to vinyl on a really good turntable. But if I'm out and about, I'll happily have some psycho-acoustically raped version of the same music decoded into analogue and squirted into my ears over a pair of dodgy headphones. Horses and courses.

 

I can see you point above, it's a personal thing and it's not for you. But I can't agree with your prediction that the eBook fad will be gone in ten years. I think you might be confusing your personal views on the subject with the clear trend in the market. I could of course be doing the same and time will tell if you're right of course, but personally I can't see this being just a fad even if I try to put aside my own positive view of the product and look at the evidence dispassionately.

 

I see a future of declining revenue from traditional printed books and increased revenue from their e-equivalents. I see this leading publishers, who are looking to reduce their publishing costs, to making less and less new titles available in print.

 

If I look at the satisfaction level for the Kindle devices, it's incredibly positive (4.6/5 from 10,000+ reviews).

 

If I look at media consumption trends, I see that we are using mobile devices such as tablets and smart-phones increasingly to consume media of all shapes and sizes.

 

If I look at the next generation's usage of traditional books - outside of school reference material, I see a generation that will instinctively turn to a browser or personal electronic device which will make them less likely to purchase a physical object.

 

If I look at the green argument, I also see that generations to follow will now want to use the planet's resources for this sort of vanity.

 

What replaces the book might not be the Kindle device we see today but something will replace it. I'm personally convinced of that.

 

All of this from someone who truly, truly loves books for books' sake.

 

Lastly, one really compelling reason I've found for Kindle ownership, and this almost certainly won't apply to you, is the ability to change font size of the Kindle.

 

My mum is in her 80s and has read all her life and gave me a love of language and literature. She now has macular degeneration and cannot see to read a normal book. My Mum now uses a Kindle with enormous print and despite the fact that I sometimes get 'support' calls from her when she's lost her place in the book, it's been an absolute godsend. We lost my dad 18 months ago and without her Kindle and the books that have kept her mind bright and filled her long days with wonderful stories and characters, she says that she wouldn't be here today.

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The problem with Kindle is that, if you buy an e-book from Amazon, you can't pass it on to another Kindle owner (although, in the US, you can lend it to one other person for 2 weeks and then can't lend it to anyone else).

 

I get my fiction books from the excellent Southampton library as there are very few that I would actually want to keep. If they enable libraries to lend e-books, I may consider a Kindle.

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The Kindle doesn't solve a problem for me. I only read one book at a time, so there is no benefit having more than one on available at any one time. I have never had a problem finding the book I want in book shops/online/libraries. Books don't really take up that much storage at home, and to be honest look fine against a wall. I can't think of a single reason to buy a Kindle and I'd go so far as to say they are a fad which will be gone within ten years.

 

They won't though, although they'll probably morph into an ipad with a lot of different experiences on one device. The next generation growing up won't want anything that clogs up their lives / homes. Getting on a plane for a two week beach holiday, airlines charging per bag - 8 books or one slim device?

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Does anybody really read more than two books per holiday? Perhaps we should be visiting more interesting places. :)

 

Bletch made a valid comparison with the evolution of electronic music. I'm going to put forward the electronic photo frame. Always going to get produced, because it is capable of being produced, and because people will buy it at Christmas, but again seeks to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and two years later it's generally regarded as a waste of good electricity, yet interestingly also scores close to 5 out of 5 in just about every online survey you'll read.

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Does anybody really read more than two books per holiday? Perhaps we should be visiting more interesting places. :)

 

Bletch made a valid comparison with the evolution of electronic music. I'm going to put forward the electronic photo frame. Always going to get produced, because it is capable of being produced, and because people will buy it at Christmas, but again seeks to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and two years later it's generally regarded as a waste of good electricity, yet interestingly also scores close to 5 out of 5 in just about every online survey you'll read.

 

When we go on holiday it is to lay around the pool and recharge. My wife will get through about 5 books ina week! Madness, I get through 1 and a bit. City breaks no, i would not bother bu my wife would take.

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I read on my iPhone in the bath, and my wife reads her kindle. I grab hold of it very tight though, as my iPhone is like an extra limb.

 

I did have a phone that thought it was a turd for ages, it kept making a beeline for the toilet, and I've dropped a few books in the bath, but books are books, they're just a few quid a pop. I don't think I'd truly trust myself with my phone or a kindle in the bath, especially with all the bubbles and ting.

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Does anybody really read more than two books per holiday? Perhaps we should be visiting more interesting places. :)

 

Bletch made a valid comparison with the evolution of electronic music. I'm going to put forward the electronic photo frame. Always going to get produced, because it is capable of being produced, and because people will buy it at Christmas, but again seeks to solve a problem that doesn't exist, and two years later it's generally regarded as a waste of good electricity, yet interestingly also scores close to 5 out of 5 in just about every online survey you'll read.

 

I see the argument you're trying to make Manuel but I think you're dealing in apples and pears.

 

The electronic photo frame does not want to be the replacement for other ways to enjoy 'photographs'. It's inventor/supplier is looking for you to buy it IN ADDITION to the product(s) it augments. It is not a replacement, instead I'd call it a "plus one" product. You don't buy the photo frame and from that moment never view a photo in any other way (PC screen, phone, tablet, paper, digital camera). This plus one nature determines the lower value the owner ascribes to the product, as well as its resultant limited market penetration.

 

The Kindle looks to replace the book. It's value to the owner is then total in that it meets all of the user's 'book reading' needs. It doesn't augment the ownership of the existing books you own. It changes the way you will consume books so fundamentally that you will no longer use the existing books you own (except for the caveats mentioned below). The perceived value is therefore much higher than the electronic photo frame.

 

Then if you're into product psychology, the Kindle gets under your skin in ways that the passive photo frame simply cannot. It travels with you, it sleeps with you, it tells you stories that make you laugh and make you cry. It teaches you things. It's interface rewards you by making you feel smart and superior to other Kindle users. This in turn reinforces your decision to buy the product and makes you visit football forums and become an advocate for it.

 

You MIGHT be right that eBooks are a passing fad but the comparison with the electronic photo frame is flawed in my view.

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I did have a phone that thought it was a turd for ages, it kept making a beeline for the toilet, and I've dropped a few books in the bath, but books are books, they're just a few quid a pop. I don't think I'd truly trust myself with my phone or a kindle in the bath, especially with all the bubbles and ting.

Stop farting in the tub then.;)

 

Anyway, I digress. I bought a Kindle Touch for Madam Pugwash at Christmas - bit of a problem getting it up and running initially as it's not supported in the UK yet, but it's now working great. Her friend has had a standard Kindle for about 18 months and swears by it. Usual things - holiday reading, light, etc, so Madam was keen. My thoughts were decisively old-school, like the weight and feel, flick back to check things, and so on. after sneakily downloading a couple of books for myself, I'm really coming round to it - at least for novels. It's a very pleasant experience and I find I actually want to read more often.

 

One huge plus is the number of free out-of-copyright books that are available. Have downloaded quite a few and am currently dipping into Kipling whenever I can get my hands on the thing. These are books that I wouldn't have otherwise found the time or inclination to seek out and buy or borrow. So on the whole it's expanded and enriched my reading experience. I might even get another one for myself at some point.

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I've had my kindle for nine months now and I was a bit sceptical about whether I'd get on with it or not. Needn't have worried though as I love it - easily the best gadget I have. I'd agree about reference books though - a kindle wouldn't be much good for them but everything else is great. Also the ability to share books is a long time coming as well as the ability for friends/family to buy books for you as presents and have them delivered to your kindle on birthdays, christmas day etc. Those are small niggles though and I actually prefer the reading experience on a kindle to a book. It also saves a huge amount of space and money. I've also taken a punt on books that were either free or cost a quid and been really surprised at how good some of them are, although some are duff.

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  • 9 months later...
You're only risking the kindle itself. If you were to lose it, all your books remain available on your account at Amazon.

 

I have an ipad, with ibooks and kindle software downloaded, and an actual kindle. Reading the kindle's "e-ink" is just as good as reading a book, and the battery lasts for weeks. The i-pad, being backlight, looks better at first glance, but tires the eyes after a while, and the battery lasts only 10 hours. It is a much more versatile device than the kindle, but is not a replacement for a real book IMO.

 

I do still read paper books, but much prefer reading on the kindle. It is lighter, and easier to handle than most books ..no more bending back the spine on a paperback etc .. and of course you can effectively carry a whole library in your pocket.

 

Only if you have an account at Amazon I have about 3000 e books and have no account with Amazon So Would potentially lose these.

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I hope there will still be a need for childrens books as imho, it still the best way for kiddies to learn to read, especially when you are mentoring your little one. Hopefully reference titles will be maintained in physical form, but I suspect they will eventually succumb to the e-reader. There is an inevitability about the high street bookstore closing down, which will be a shame as they are great for a browse around. I've never had a kindle, or similar, and used to work in a bookshop, so i guess i'm a little biased, but i hope the old bookshop will still be found on the high street in years to come.

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I hope there will still be a need for childrens books as imho, it still the best way for kiddies to learn to read, especially when you are mentoring your little one. Hopefully reference titles will be maintained in physical form, but I suspect they will eventually succumb to the e-reader. There is an inevitability about the high street bookstore closing down, which will be a shame as they are great for a browse around. I've never had a kindle, or similar, and used to work in a bookshop, so i guess i'm a little biased, but i hope the old bookshop will still be found on the high street in years to come.

 

Agree with this Kids need books with large letters on each page to learn the Alphabet of whichever language they are learning with a kindle / electronic book its difficult for them to throw it down, grip the pages and then hold each page right in front of there eyes to remember it.

 

Can you imagine a two year old holding a kindle the first thing they will do is see if it bounces then try to open it by bashing it on the floor.

 

I would hope that they do keep the paper format of books as I have a decent sized Library and I will still add to it with books that I want. But as the technology evolves I have also got en E-book library and will add to that as well.

 

Can any body remember the last time that they actually looked in an encyclopaedia in hard copy form and not on the internet for information ?

Edited by PhilippineSaint
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I did have a phone that thought it was a turd for ages, it kept making a beeline for the toilet, and I've dropped a few books in the bath, but books are books, they're just a few quid a pop. I don't think I'd truly trust myself with my phone or a kindle in the bath, especially with all the bubbles and ting.

 

I bet that the make of the turd like phone was a samson as I had a few that acted the same.

 

As soon as i started wearing shirts without pockets on the breast it appeared to cure the problem though.

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Mrs D here, I've had a sony e-reader since they came out, updating as I went. I wouldn't be without it as I'm always reading something. However I still but some books, mostly reference but also some fiction as I do like turning actual pages sometimes. I think the technology will continue to improve and could well be the death of printed books.

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But what will modern dictators do, as I suspect Ipads and kindles wont burn as well as books?...and if the content is in the cloud anyway... I will need to give this some serious thought before publishing the next edition of The International Jounal of Modern Dictatorship... now available for Ibooks and Kindle

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The Comics app on iPad is really nice, even if the content looks a bit pricey for what it is.

 

£1.49 per comic, which is taking the p!ss a little bit. That said, I did get the first Walking Dead book for around £6. Really is a good app.

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