ooh it's a corner Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 If the rumours are to be believed then we have offered some serious money to secure players this January. But £6m ? Really ? We have been consistant with our slating of the Blue Few for idly lapping up the success that their over-extravagance bought. With nobody questioning "at what cost?" to the financial stability these players were bought, and retained. Yet here we all are, egging the club on to spend a record fee....desperately trying to cling on to top spot.... Naturally, I would love it, love it, if we get promoted this year, and it is impossible to think that we could ever be in a better position to do so, but are we starting the slippery slope to financial ruin once again? IIRC our turnover in the year we got relegated from this division was just £14m. IF it's going to be a similar figure to that this year, can we really afford to spend £6m on one player? I know we have some wonga behind us, but at what point should we question it? Or do we just sit back, idly lapping up the success, looking forward to joining 500,000 for the city parade on the Common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 That is the sort of money needed to secure the type of players we're after. If we didn't have the money we wouldn't bother inquiring about them. One thing with NC is that he's clever and has a strong business understanding, so he'll never lead us into financial melt down and we'll only ever spend what we feel we're able to. At the end of the day to progress out of this league and establish ourselves in the premier league we need to spend some money, and £6m is a relative dip in the ocean compared to what we'd get back from it. If we don't want to break our record transfer fee then our progress will halt, I'm sure of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 given Corteses background I can't see how he would spend beyond our means enough to risk the clubs future. Also I think the crowds are bigger this season than our last in this league minus the fact we haven't debts to pay off on the stadium etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 The difference between us and Pompey is backing from a billionaire family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Not really worth discussing until we actually do spend this sort of money. Having said that, if we do spend the money then I would argue that yes we can afford it because we sold Chamberlin for 15 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Every single one of our fans needs to ask themselves the question : at what level do you want Saints to compete ? PL meaning struggle on the field and financially, or Championship, being one of the bigger fish in the pond, maybe some cup successes down the line, challenging for the titles. Its a real toughie, and my feeling on this has flipped back-and-forth several times. At the moment I favour the PL, since it seems to me it is more open this season than it has been for a long time, I cannot see Wenger and Ferguson being around much longer, and the managerial merry-go-rounds at Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool will continue, denying them dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 We got 15m for chambo If we got 4m and re-invested 1.6 nobody would start stuuuuupid threads! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooh it's a corner Posted 14 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Not really worth discussing until we actually do spend this sort of money. Having said that, if we do spend the money then I would argue that yes we can afford it because we sold Chamberlin for 15 million. Assuming that we haven't yet received all of that £15m, then you could argue that £7m went to pay off last year's losses, with the other half earmarked for this year's losses? I would give Cortese due credit not to lead us to ruin, because he has a financial/banking background and there's no way people with that experience gamble resulting in economic strife..... oh...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 If the rumours are to be believed then we have offered some serious money to secure players this January. But £6m ? Really ? We have been consistant with our slating of the Blue Few for idly lapping up the success that their over-extravagance bought. With nobody questioning "at what cost?" to the financial stability these players were bought, and retained. Yet here we all are, egging the club on to spend a record fee....desperately trying to cling on to top spot.... Naturally, I would love it, love it, if we get promoted this year, and it is impossible to think that we could ever be in a better position to do so, but are we starting the slippery slope to financial ruin once again? IIRC our turnover in the year we got relegated from this division was just £14m. IF it's going to be a similar figure to that this year, can we really afford to spend £6m on one player? I know we have some wonga behind us, but at what point should we question it? Or do we just sit back, idly lapping up the success, looking forward to joining 500,000 for the city parade on the Common? Great user name! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Assuming that we haven't yet received all of that £15m and you can assume we wont be shelling out 6m in one hit either.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooh it's a corner Posted 14 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2012 and you can assume we wont be shelling out 6m in one hit either.. fair point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 and you can assume we wont be shelling out 6m in one hit either.. Beat me too it. Why on earth would our transfer be the entire cash up-front if no-one else does business like that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 We've got £12mill sat in the bank from the Chamberlain sale, might as well spend it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingeletiss Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 If the rumours are to be believed then we have offered some serious money to secure players this January. But £6m ? Really ? We have been consistant with our slating of the Blue Few for idly lapping up the success that their over-extravagance bought. With nobody questioning "at what cost?" to the financial stability these players were bought, and retained. Yet here we all are, egging the club on to spend a record fee....desperately trying to cling on to top spot.... Naturally, I would love it, love it, if we get promoted this year, and it is impossible to think that we could ever be in a better position to do so, but are we starting the slippery slope to financial ruin once again? IIRC our turnover in the year we got relegated from this division was just £14m. IF it's going to be a similar figure to that this year, can we really afford to spend £6m on one player? I know we have some wonga behind us, but at what point should we question it? Or do we just sit back, idly lapping up the success, looking forward to joining 500,000 for the city parade on the Common? Been saying this myself, the way to ruin, is to spend beyond your means, applicable to all walks of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Been saying this myself, the way to ruin, is to spend beyond your means, applicable to all walks of life. Have to speculate to accumulate. Have you forgotten the financial boost promotion brings ? Plus maybe 5000-6000 on the gate very week ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Assuming that we haven't yet received all of that £15m' date=' then you could argue that [b']£7m went to pay off last year's losses[/b], with the other half earmarked for this year's losses? I would give Cortese due credit not to lead us to ruin, because he has a financial/banking background and there's no way people with that experience gamble resulting in economic strife..... oh...... I don't think the evidence suggests that to be the case. We would not make a financial plan based on selling a youth team player to cover losses from the previous year. No professional organisation does that as there are too many intangibles and things that could have gone wrong and neither would we. On top of which, we stated we wanted to keep Chamberlin suggesting that there was no need to sell to cover losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Not really worth discussing until we actually do spend this sort of money. Having said that, if we do spend the money then I would argue that yes we can afford it because we sold Chamberlin for 15 million. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Every single one of our fans needs to ask themselves the question : at what level do you want Saints to compete ? PL meaning struggle on the field and financially, or Championship, being one of the bigger fish in the pond, maybe some cup successes down the line, challenging for the titles. Two thoughts on that... firstly, why are those the only two options? If we're seriously considering spending £6m in the NPC, why wouldn't we continue that commitment if we get to the Prem to ensure we don't struggle? I don't consider the likes of Stoke, Fulham, Sunderland etc as being a massive amount ahead of us in terms of potential, supporter base, potential income etc etc. They have made themselves mainstays in the Prem, so why couldn't we? Secondly, both your options are the same at the end of the day. Being one of the bigger fish in the NPC pond means promotion chasing. Promotion chasing means reaching the Prem if successful in challenging for titles. If you're belief is correct that we wont spend £6m on any one player, that surely confines us to relegation back to the NPC where we can go back to being one of the bigger fish and the cycle continues. In short, without investment, can you have success in the NPC without difficulty in the Prem afterwards? We're on a high at the moment, our reputation is improving, we're playing good football that is generating positive comments, so if we do get to the Prem and our owners and NC don't invest and wish to sell, it wont be too difficult to find a buyer. Especially given the resources we have invested in and our reputation for youth development, which will become vital as the importance of young English talent increases. But lets not forget NC has already stated his aims and they were ambitious, positive and came backed up with comments around potential spending to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leslie Charteris Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Perhaps NC would splash the cash on a fee but we haven't signed anyone yet because he won't sanction a player coming in on much bigger wages than we're paying out already. After all, Billy Sharp alledgedly wanted wages that even Leicester wouldn't pay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Two thoughts on that... firstly, why are those the only two options? If we're seriously considering spending £6m in the NPC, why wouldn't we continue that commitment if we get to the Prem to ensure we don't struggle? Because the level of financial support required to achieve that is probably a scale order of magnitude more than what has been put into the club so far. The championship scenario was inferring a "close but no cigar" situation in relation to promotion, maybe something like play-of losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Because the level of financial support required to achieve that is probably a scale order of magnitude more than what has been put into the club so far. The championship scenario was inferring a "close but no cigar" situation in relation to promotion, maybe something like play-of losers. You're right, it will require a level of spending way above our spending in recent years. But in recent years we've been in L1 chasing the NPC, so spending big wasn't really possible, nobody worth £6m would have ever considered coming to L1. We did, however, go straight out and buy a proven NPC level defender with a great reputation (Fonte) and the leagues top goalscorer (Lambert) to show our intention, they were two big signings for a L1 club... both could have found themselves an NPC club easily. As we rise through the leagues the investment needed for quality players, for success at that level and for moving onto the next level increases. This does match our spending patterns, we have consistently invested in new talent each season, just look at our signings at the start of this season, not just in terms of cost but the statement - Cork, for instance, was a sign of intent. We all know the five-year plan to get back to the Prem and establish ourselves there exists. So far, we have invested accordingly and in a larger scale at each stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 (edited) You're right, it will require a level of spending way above our spending in recent years. But in recent years we've been in L1 chasing the NPC, so spending big wasn't really possible, nobody worth £6m would have ever considered coming to L1. We did, however, go straight out and buy a proven NPC level defender with a great reputation (Fonte) and the leagues top goalscorer (Lambert) to show our intention, they were two big signings for a L1 club... both could have found themselves an NPC club easily. As we rise through the leagues the investment needed for quality players, for success at that level and for moving onto the next level increases. This does match our spending patterns, we have consistently invested in new talent each season, just look at our signings at the start of this season, not just in terms of cost but the statement - Cork, for instance, was a sign of intent. We all know the five-year plan to get back to the Prem and establish ourselves there exists. So far, we have invested accordingly and in a larger scale at each stage. Agree with all that, but do wonder if NC knows what the world he is getting himself into if we do win promotion. I really wonder what his plan is, and how much of a "war chest" he might be able to call on at that point. Slightly different point: Do we really want money-grabbing egotistical whores like Cole, Terry, Tevez, Rooney, etc. at our club when promotion happens ? I have a real problem with handing MLs hard-earned dosh over to them Edited 14 January, 2012 by alpine_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Time will tell, I don't think NC is a mug though. He's already managed to stand up to the big boys in the Prem, he's probably used to arseholes from his time as a banker so I think he has the right grounding The real question is the ambition of those holding the purse strings, that's the only doubt I have. But as I said before, I am confident that new owners could be found if necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 We don't need to spend £6m on one player to secure promotion from the NPC - I can't think of a club in the last few years who have spent that kind of cash in that way to get out - QPR and Newcastle didn't on single players. You'd probably have to go back to Tigana's Fulham for comparable behaviour, and that must be a decade back. Although I have just remembered Leicester lobbing £5m at Matt Mills but that is mental mental mental beyond all human comprehension. To get somewhere to "guaranteeing" promotion, then yes some investment definitely needed, but lets not go loopy if this deal doesn't happen because from where I am standing it still looks highly unlikely, from both ends - I can't see Celtic standing for the humilation of having to sell their best player to a second tier English club, and I can't see Cortese sanctioning that spend. And, finally, I am not sure Adkins, regardless of how much he rates the boy, would be alltogether comfortable with parachuting a £6m signing on the squad he's been building. We'll see though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 (edited) We don't need to spend £6m on one player to secure promotion from the NPC - I can't think of a club in the last few years who have spent that kind of cash in that way to get out - QPR and Newcastle didn't on single players. You'd probably have to go back to Tigana's Fulham for comparable behaviour, and that must be a decade back. Although I have just remembered Leicester lobbing £5m at Matt Mills but that is mental mental mental beyond all human comprehension. To get somewhere to "guaranteeing" promotion, then yes some investment definitely needed, but lets not go loopy if this deal doesn't happen because from where I am standing it still looks highly unlikely, from both ends - I can't see Celtic standing for the humilation of having to sell their best player to a second tier English club, and I can't see Cortese sanctioning that spend. And, finally, I am not sure Adkins, regardless of how much he rates the boy, would be alltogether comfortable with parachuting a £6m signing on the squad he's been building. We'll see though. I think Birmingham paid 4.5m for McSheffrey in 2006 & Chopra from sunderland to cardiff 5m? McDonald from celtic to M'boro for 4 QPR paid 4m for Faurlin Think sheff united also paid about 5m for Beattie? Edited 14 January, 2012 by Glasgow_Saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Beattie went to Sheff Utd for 4m... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 I think Birmingham paid 4.5m for McSheffrey in 2006 There you go - six years ago. Not that common, and definitely not a need. We need a striker, but we don't need to spend six million. Spending six million on a single player could create as many problems as it solves. Can you imagine the venom on here if the poor bugger goes five without scoring....?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 I don't see why it being common is relevant? The price Ronaldo went to Madrid for wasn't that common. The price we sold a youngster to Arsenal for wasn't that common. If we think it's the right thing to do and we have the funds available, I don't think anybody will give two ****s whether it's common place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 I don't see why it being common is relevant? The price Ronaldo went to Madrid for wasn't that common. The price we sold a youngster to Arsenal for wasn't that common. If we think it's the right thing to do and we have the funds available, I don't think anybody will give two ****s whether it's common place. Christ. The point about it not being common is that it is not a need in the way some are making out. Instead of trawling the internet for players who have cost CCC clubs £4m or more (funnily enough, no one has found a six million player which was my bloody point) have a look at teams who have got promoted without spending £6 (or indeed £4m) on single players - from Norwich to Blackpool to Burley to Derby to whoever. If you seriously think we are going to start acting like Real frigging Madrid then you need to grow up a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Who said we were acting like Real frigging Madrid? Who said we need to spend £6m to get promoted? I've already posted my thoughts on why I believe a larger than is common investment in new players is likely. You've decided that this isn't the case because historically it hasn't happened (much). Interesting that you prefer to get upset rather than discuss and debate, a sign of this forum perhaps, but why not discuss the point? I've explained my view, your turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Slightly different point: Do we really want money-grabbing egotistical whores like Cole, Terry, Tevez, Rooney, etc. at our club when promotion happens ? I have a real problem with handing MLs hard-earned dosh over to them I don't, definitely not, but I think it's a fact of life in football these days. Sadly the days of commitment, playing for pride and making decisions for the love of it are ending. There are some signs of it - Gerrard's new deal at Liverpool perhaps, plus Billy Sharps intention to stay close to home - but they are by far the exception. The norm is you buy in talent, they do a job until you get rid of them as you don't want them, or they get rid of you because they think they can do better. Sad really, but that's business I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Who said we were acting like Real frigging Madrid? Who said we need to spend £6m to get promoted? I've already posted my thoughts on why I believe a larger than is common investment in new players is likely. You've decided that this isn't the case because historically it hasn't happened (much). Interesting that you prefer to get upset rather than discuss and debate, a sign of this forum perhaps, but why not discuss the point? I've explained my view, your turn. You brought up Real buying Ronaldo. I wonder how it is at all relevant. You're the one picking out things that are uncommon. I am saying we don't need to buy a single player for £6m to get promoted, and my examples for that are the many, many championship level clubs who have not spent six million pounds on a single player and got promoted. I'd also use Southampton football club getting to top of the division without spending six million pounds on a player as an additional example. If you think Real buying Ronaldo, as not being common, as being a more relevent example to the job in hand then fill your boots son. I'll call it a pretty wrong headed jumping off point for the debate though. If that's where you're head is at, then really it's pointless trying to debate with you, especially you're deciding to pretend I've got upset, your the one squinneying about not giving two ****s about things. Bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Wow, such anger. OK... I used Ronaldo as an example that something being out of the ordinary doesn't mean it's wrong, isn't necessary or shouldn't happen. It turns out that was a cracking purchase for Real, so money well spent. What Southampton need is another quality striker. We've discussed to death the options that exist - J-Rod, Sharp, Maynard etc - and they are all rumoured to have a valuation of anything from £2-4m, possibly more depending on your choice of newspaper or website. That seems to be the price of a reasonable quality striker at the moment, but none of those options are considered as good as Hooper, they are less certain options for our long term. Hooper at a rumoured £6m seems to be the price for a quality striker that doesn't just meet our needs now, but provides a bloody good chance of performing in the Prem too. In L1 we spent more than was common for other L1 clubs in order to get NPC quality players. We did this to ensure promotion and to ensure consistency after promotion, so we're not rebuilding from scratch. Now we're in NPC and we're doing the same. We're looking at players better than we have that can do a job immediately, but also after promotion, again so we're not rebuilding from scratch. This isn't a common approach because few other clubs are as fortunate as us, in terms of leadership and financial backing. Additionally, as we rise through the leagues, the cost of talent better than we have will increase, hence looking at £6m proven quality strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Alright guys, you two are usually pretty good at rising above the sh!te, so how about giving it a go now? To be fair to Rob he did say 'IF we think it is right' to spend more money, then we should do so, not that he thought it was necessary. It's always the extreme examples that highlight a point more than the routine ones, probably hence Ronaldo being mentioned. FWIW, I think we will have to spend perhaps a bit more than average to really improve our squad, partly because of the ever-increasing prices, and partly because we're top and people know we do have some cash. CBFry is right, many, many teams haven't had to spend large amounts to get promoted, and that may well prove to be the case for us, although I suspect we are trying to sign a few key players to make sure (as much as we can) and also to give us a bit of quality to carry us through into the Prem, rather than just getting us there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Alright guys, you two are usually pretty good at rising above the sh!te, so how about giving it a go now? To be fair to Rob he did say 'IF we think it is right' to spend more money, then we should do so, not that he thought it was necessary. It's always the extreme examples that highlight a point more than the routine ones, probably hence Ronaldo being mentioned. FWIW, I think we will have to spend perhaps a bit more than average to really improve our squad, partly because of the ever-increasing prices, and partly because we're top and people know we do have some cash. CBFry is right, many, many teams haven't had to spend large amounts to get promoted, and that may well prove to be the case for us, although I suspect we are trying to sign a few key players to make sure (as much as we can) and also to give us a bit of quality to carry us through into the Prem, rather than just getting us there. We have to get used to paying higher fees at some point or another if the 5 year plan is serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Minty - You're right, thanks, enough bickering Alpine - We do indeed and I'm not for one second suggesting that we must and need to spend big, but there are certain holes we need to fill and there is a cost attached to that. We can spend less, but we'll get less. Buy right, buy once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 You should all pack yourselves off to see the movie, Moneyball, and see how a small baseball team, the Oakland A's, managed to take on the big money clubs. And the A's actually did it by CUTTING their spending on importing players. It struck me, watching it, that Brian Clough and Peter Taylor's Nottingham Forest were way ahead of smaller clubs in US baseball in realising that club management too often look at the wrong things when they consider which players to buy. I'm not saying it's THE way to go - just an interesting perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulsfc Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Wage rather than size of transfer fee is the issue with me, the higher the fee the higher the wages (as a general rule). So we spend £6m on one player, he isn't going to be paid £15k pw, more like £25k (just an assumption but a not unreasonable one I think). Suddenly your other top players (Lambert, Cork, Lallana, Fonte etc) will want parity with that as will any other multi-million pound signing. That would cripple a club in the NPC. So if we don't get out of this league after spending that sort of money then I will be worried. Having said that I bloody LOVE being linked with bids of £6m. Makes a change from years of spending £600k on crap. And if he scores the goals that get us out the league it is money well spent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobM Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 You should all pack yourselves off to see the movie, Moneyball, and see how a small baseball team, the Oakland A's, managed to take on the big money clubs. And the A's actually did it by CUTTING their spending on importing players. It struck me, watching it, that Brian Clough and Peter Taylor's Nottingham Forest were way ahead of smaller clubs in US baseball in realising that club management too often look at the wrong things when they consider which players to buy. I'm not saying it's THE way to go - just an interesting perspective. That's the part our Academy will play, surely? Home-grown talent, brought through the ranks, complimented with bought-in talent and experience. Or is that just a sentimental dream? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 That's the part our Academy will play, surely? Home-grown talent, brought through the ranks, complimented with bought-in talent and experience. Or is that just a sentimental dream? Possibly, but Moneyball is all about how the A's were to survive the next season, after having all their great players swiped by the Yankees and the Red Sox. So the question was: who to buy, and with much less money? Their answer to that question has been hugely influential in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 That's the part our Academy will play, surely? Home-grown talent, brought through the ranks, complimented with bought-in talent and experience. Or is that just a sentimental dream? No, it's part of the process and quite feasible that *some* players can come through, just like Man U did. I think if anyone is going to pull together a squad that can perform without spending a fortune, it is Adkins, with his psychological background, but the higher you get up the leagues, the more you need the flashes of brilliance and individual skill that can't be coached or developed on the training ground, so balance will need to be struck somehow. What that will cost will depend on if we can unearth good lower league players, other clubs' Academy talent, or if we need to buy established quality players with price tag to match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 [quote=S-Clarke;1237612 At the end of the day to progress out of this league and establish ourselves in the premier league we need to spend some money, and £6m is a relative dip in the ocean compared to what we'd get back from it. If we don't want to break our record transfer fee then our progress will halt, I'm sure of it (QUOTE] well said Clarkey, exactly my feeling, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Missed that post - yes, pretty much spot on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucks Saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 What Southampton need is another quality striker. We've discussed to death the options that exist - J-Rod, Sharp, Maynard etc - and they are all rumoured to have a valuation of anything from £2-4m, possibly more depending on your choice of newspaper or website. That seems to be the price of a reasonable quality striker at the moment, but none of those options are considered as good as Hooper, they are less certain options for our long term. Hooper at a rumoured £6m seems to be the price for a quality striker that doesn't just meet our needs now, but provides a bloody good chance of performing in the Prem too. This. Plenty of championship clubs have spent circa £3m on single players, often strikers, who help them secure promotion but then fail to make any real impact in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWD Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Every single one of our fans needs to ask themselves the question : at what level do you want Saints to compete ? PL meaning struggle on the field and financially, or Championship, being one of the bigger fish in the pond, maybe some cup successes down the line, challenging for the titles. Its a real toughie, and my feeling on this has flipped back-and-forth several times. At the moment I favour the PL, since it seems to me it is more open this season than it has been for a long time, I cannot see Wenger and Ferguson being around much longer, and the managerial merry-go-rounds at Man City, Chelsea and Liverpool will continue, denying them dominance. If we get to the prem I can't see NC settling for 27 more years of flirting with relegation. Obviously it wouldn't happen over night, but I can see us eventually reaching the same sort of level as Villa or Everton. Solid PL clubs with chances of a good league position with a favourable run of results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 (edited) The OP is right in that we should never spend to the extent that if the Liebherr money was suddenly withdrawn the club would be in trouble. Pompey's owner Sacha Gaydamak was rich when he bought the club, he could afford the spending at the time he made it - it was only once Daddy got into trouble for arms dealing and tax evasion that the money dried up and the club began to spin into admin. Although the Liebherr's are a totally different propostion, unfortunate things can happen to anyone. Does everyone know for sure their entire fortune wasnt tied up in Snoras Bank, or in whichever is the next bank to go under? Of course if money is available from the Liebherr's we should take it with thanks- but structured in a way that we dont need it recurrently eg if they only made capital injections for the Staplewood upgrade or to buy big players, as long as the recurrent costs like wages could be funded from the revenue generated by the club. Edited 14 January, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 This is the risk you take chasing the Prem. We have the Chamberlain money and apparent solid backing from the Liebherr fund but a risk it remains. It was clear from the bench at Brighton that the squad is too small to stay in the top automatic places with any certainty hence the investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 You need to look at the finances as a whole before you can start saying "reckless spending etc. Whilst I have no doubt that Markus developed genuine affection for the club, we were bought because we were a very attractive business proposition with a decent chance of a high return. The accounts last year show that (Including the purchase price) the venture to date has cost 27 million pounds with 3 million repaid. Thats 24 million quid for everything, The Club, the stadium, the squad, the training ground, Jacksons farm and half a dozen properties. Just after the first year a player who would have been an unknown and certainly not relevant to the purchase was sold for (As we are told) 15 million quid. I doubt we are losing money at the rate we did in League one, but for arguments sake, lets say we are, by March the "Project" to date will have a net cost of around 13 million quid.........somewhat of a bargain. If they sold the squad tomorrow, they would be cash positive, still own the Stadium, still own the training ground, still own Jacksons farm and still own the properties. To date (And very much with the help of Cortese) this has been a very successful and fantastic investment.....and thats without getting to the pot of gold that is the Premiership. A relatively small amount of investment, justified by the fact we are top of the league could add an additional 90 million pounds plus to the current success. Whilst I know we won't from a fiscal perspective, you could justify 20 million quids worth of spending, so I wouldn't get worried over 6 million. We have clever honest people running the club and if the figures don' add up, they wont risk the clubs future. The accounts also show that Markus is the only creditor. A very smart man, who left us too early, but his "Project" is very much on course and delivering results most investors could only dream of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 (edited) You need to look at the finances as a whole before you can start saying "reckless spending etc. Whilst I have no doubt that Markus developed genuine affection for the club, we were bought because we were a very attractive business proposition with a decent chance of a high return. The accounts last year show that (Including the purchase price) the venture to date has cost 27 million pounds with 3 million repaid. Thats 24 million quid for everything, The Club, the stadium, the squad, the training ground, Jacksons farm and half a dozen properties. Just after the first year a player who would have been an unknown and certainly not relevant to the purchase was sold for (As we are told) 15 million quid. I doubt we are losing money at the rate we did in League one, but for arguments sake, lets say we are, by March the "Project" to date will have a net cost of around 13 million quid.........somewhat of a bargain. If they sold the squad tomorrow, they would be cash positive, still own the Stadium, still own the training ground, still own Jacksons farm and still own the properties. To date (And very much with the help of Cortese) this has been a very successful and fantastic investment.....and thats without getting to the pot of gold that is the Premiership. A relatively small amount of investment, justified by the fact we are top of the league could add an additional 90 million pounds plus to the current success. Whilst I know we won't from a fiscal perspective, you could justify 20 million quids worth of spending, so I wouldn't get worried over 6 million. We have clever honest people running the club and if the figures don' add up, they wont risk the clubs future. The accounts also show that Markus is the only creditor. A very smart man, who left us too early, but his "Project" is very much on course and delivering results most investors could only dream of. IMO your post addresses exactly the wrong question - could the owner get his money back if he broke up the club and sold off the assets? - yes no doubt. Most people want to be sure that the club is run within its means so that it can survive intact if outside funding from the Liebherrs were ever withdrawn. Edited 14 January, 2012 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 IMO your post addresses exactly the wrong question - could the owner get his money back if he broke up the club and sold off the assets? - yes no doubt. Most people want to be sure that the club is run within its means so that it can survive intact if outside funding from the Liebherrs were ever withdrawn. You either mis read my post or I wrote it badly. My guess is we are not a million miles away from being self sustaining, but we do still need Markus money at the moment and certainly if we are going to go all out for promotion. The difference is (Compared to most clubs) is that any cash thrown at the squad is covered in assets, so it's not really a gamble. When clubs borrow or leverage assets in the hope of a return, then that is something very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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