Gemmel Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 I don't know enough about F1 to make a fully considered Judgemment (I know about different tyres etc.) but did Glock slow down on purpose? Hamilton didn't really fight off vittel considering it was for the world championship - Was there a plan B? Anyhow glad he won Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 There are no ties between Toyota and McLaren whatsoever, and we have to assume there's no reason to call foul. Glock stuck it out on the dry tyres, when all the other front runners switched to wets, and got caught out in the downpour over the last few corners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weston Super Saint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 They haven't had the official complaints yet. Expect Massa to be world champion by tomorrow night, with Hamilton having to start the first grand prix next season from the lost city of Atlantis under the sea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 2 November, 2008 Author Share Posted 2 November, 2008 There are no ties between Toyota and McLaren whatsoever, and we have to assume there's no reason to call foul. Glock stuck it out on the dry tyres, when all the other front runners switched to wets, and got caught out in the downpour over the last few corners. Ponty i know this is your area, so not disagreeing - it just seemed his speed went down a lot more than just different tyres. Regardless of ties, money talks. I am happy to be wrong but from a very novice F1 viewer, i was genuinely surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Ponty i know this is your area, so not disagreeing - it just seemed his speed went down a lot more than just different tyres. Regardless of ties, money talks. I am happy to be wrong but from a very novice F1 viewer, i was genuinely surprised. Glock's penultimate was a 1:28, a full 10s slower than his previous lap after only a light drizzle. On the final lap, there was a downpour and it slowed him down massively to a 1:44. Being on the wrong tyres in the rain can often cost you 30s plus a lap. It happened at Spa, when Heidfeld pitted for wets and went from 9th to 3rd (2nd) by the end of the race. No foul play what-so-ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 I don't know enough about F1 to make a fully considered Judgemment (I know about different tyres etc.) but did Glock slow down on purpose? Hamilton didn't really fight off vittel considering it was for the world championship - Was there a plan B? Anyhow glad he won Do remember that if Glock had gone in for intermediates, there wouldn't even be a talking point about this close championship climax, because there wouldn't have been one. Glock would have been behind Hamilton, and therefore Hamilton would have won the championship with room to spare. Because Glock stayed out on dry tyres, the issue was... would the weather gods smile on Lewis or Massa..? The weather tried to throw everything at Hamilton to upset his championship, and it nearly did it. Only failing by a corner or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Seems to me that Glock was paying the price for not switching tyres as the guy behind Hamilton over-took him as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Just you, Glock was deffo slowed up by not changing his tyres. As StL said, even if he did go in to change them, Lewis still would've won it as Glock would've been behind. Saying that, it's funny that Sky News are this minute saying that Lewis would've lost it had Glock pitted. Shows what they know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mack rill Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 Well it looked bloody fishy to me, Right up to that corner he was cruising he did not lose control Just seem to pull over and say (after you mush),,,,Looks like an Arry bag round the back of the pits;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amesbury Saint Posted 2 November, 2008 Share Posted 2 November, 2008 I don't know enough about F1 to make a fully considered Judgemment (I know about different tyres etc.) but did Glock slow down on purpose? Hamilton didn't really fight off vittel considering it was for the world championship - Was there a plan B? Anyhow glad he won + 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericofarabia Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 You've got to feel just a tad sorry for Massa, the highs and lows he went thru in a matter of seconds from thinking he'd won the championship to finding out he hadn't ( play offs fight back and then defeat at Derby anyone ). But at least despite being obviously heart broken and shell shocked he was quite dignified in defeat, where as Alonso had a face on him that looked like it had been slapped with a wet kipper at the news Hamilton was now champion :supz: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 I'm by no means an expert and definately think Alonso deserves a slap for being so outspoken about Hamilton and the way he was treated in his short stint with McLaren, but Alonso is a fantastic driver... in my opinion superior to Hamilton and if he is lucky enough to have a car that is able to compete throughout the whole season next year, I feel he will wipe the floor with Lewis Hamilton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Just you, Glock was deffo slowed up by not changing his tyres. Ron Dennis even said they were watching Glock's GPS and were confident that Lewis would catch him before the flag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Trulli , who no reason to slow down , also recorded a 1.44 on the last lap. The same as Glock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pancake Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7705641.stm Glock confirms he had no motive, and Whitmarsh backs up the GPS thing that Dennis spoke about on ITV yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 (edited) I'm by no means an expert and definately think Alonso deserves a slap for being so outspoken about Hamilton and the way he was treated in his short stint with McLaren, but Alonso is a fantastic driver... in my opinion superior to Hamilton and if he is lucky enough to have a car that is able to compete throughout the whole season next year, I feel he will wipe the floor with Lewis Hamilton. Aren't you forgetting the previous season..? Both in the same car, both given equal status, and there was no wiping the floor with Hamilton. And this was a World Champion against a Rookie. IMO, both drivers are very evenly matched. They both have their strong and weak areas. And if you're thinking Alonso made up for a bad car, I believe you're not giving enough credit to Ponty's bunch. They progressed their car midway through the season to be extremely competitive. And Alonso, being the fine driver he is, took advantage. If you're thinking the McLaren was a very special car, and Hamilton is nothing special, then why was his teammate P-nowhere all the time..? Edited 3 November, 2008 by St Landrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Aren't you forgetting the previous season..? Both in the same car, both given equal status, and there was no wiping the floor with Hamilton. And this was a World Champion against a Rookie. IMO, both drivers are very evenly matched. They both have their strong and weak areas. And if you're thinking Alonso made up for a bad car, I believe you're not giving enough credit to Ponty's bunch. They progressed their car midway through the season to be extremely competitive. And Alonso, being the fine driver he is, took advantage. If you're thinking the McLaren was a very special car, and Hamilton is nothing special, then why was his teammate P-nowhere all the time..? The previous season? When Alonso signed with McLaren, I believe he was of the understanding Hamilton was to be the 2nd driver. The drivers were then given equal status, as I understand it, after it became clear Hamilton wasn't having any trouble adjusting to F1. In my opinion, it was this move that began the decline in Alonso's driving. He was used to being Renault's undisputed number 1 with a team-mate driving tactically to benefit him. A luxury he thought he would have with McLaren also. Dont ever underestimate the power of relationships forged between other drivers and teams. Hamilton has p*ssed a lot of fellow drivers off over the past 2 seasons with his daredevil tactics and gambles. As for Alonso's car, I didnt say he made up for a bad car, simply that it was more competitive in the latter stages of the competition that the early stages. Something which you have agreed to in your reply to my original comment. Put Alonso in a car that can compete with the best throughout the course of a season, and I reckon that, coupled with his desire and drive to beat Hamilton and his relationships with other drivers such as Massa, will potentially spell trouble for Hamilton. No matter ones opinions on who the best drivers are, next season promises to be an absolute belter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyLove Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Put Alonso in a car that can compete with the best throughout the course of a season, and I reckon that, coupled with his desire and drive to beat Hamilton and his relationships with other drivers such as Massa, will potentially spell trouble for Hamilton. did he not have that last season? But I know what your getting at. No matter ones opinions on who the best drivers are, next season promises to be an absolute belter.And the best part of all not bloddy adverts to get int the way. 123(dont' worry about that bit it just said i can't post without 3 characters for some weird reason) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatch Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 They need to get their stories straight... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7705641.stm "We were obviously telling Lewis throughout that what was happening so he knew he had to keep it together, not panic, not do anything dangerous with Vettel and just to do his job to catch Glock and win the world championship. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7705310.stm "The team didn't say anything so I thought I was shot," said Hamilton, who became Britain's ninth world champion and the first since Damon Hill in 1996. "I didn't know where Glock was and Vettel was the guy to beat and I couldn't catch him, so at that point I was going to finish sixth. My heart was in my mouth," said Hamilton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Saint Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Dont ever underestimate the power of relationships forged between other drivers and teams. Hamilton has p*ssed a lot of fellow drivers off over the past 2 seasons with his daredevil tactics and gambles. I have to say this is the re-occuring line that cracks me up, to be a racing driver you have to be a bit of a bloody minded bugger, thats how you got to park your bum in an F1 car in the first place and not your bestest buddy. He is not the first racing driver to drive with a swash buckling style, The fastest moustache since Errol Flynn ~ Nigel Mansell use to climb into his Williams and then hang his Gentlemans vegetables on his wing mirrors, a qualifying lap with him was sparks and gusto then next along came Prost who looked like he was out for a country drive and would set a time within 1/100th +/-, no one really got too upset with him. Todays drivers saw the retirement of Micky the Shoe (who was no gentleman driver himself) as a golden opportunity to get to the top step, what they did not see coming was another driver who "could" be the next big thing and for that they have got the arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 "McLaren in conflicting stories" shocker. For further examples, see: Hungary '07 China '07 Brasil '07 Hockenheim '08 ad nauseum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Landrew Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 The previous season? When Alonso signed with McLaren, I believe he was of the understanding Hamilton was to be the 2nd driver. The drivers were then given equal status, as I understand it, after it became clear Hamilton wasn't having any trouble adjusting to F1. In my opinion, it was this move that began the decline in Alonso's driving. He was used to being Renault's undisputed number 1 with a team-mate driving tactically to benefit him. A luxury he thought he would have with McLaren also. Dont ever underestimate the power of relationships forged between other drivers and teams. Hamilton has p*ssed a lot of fellow drivers off over the past 2 seasons with his daredevil tactics and gambles. As for Alonso's car, I didnt say he made up for a bad car, simply that it was more competitive in the latter stages of the competition that the early stages. Something which you have agreed to in your reply to my original comment. Put Alonso in a car that can compete with the best throughout the course of a season, and I reckon that, coupled with his desire and drive to beat Hamilton and his relationships with other drivers such as Massa, will potentially spell trouble for Hamilton. No matter ones opinions on who the best drivers are, next season promises to be an absolute belter. I would agree with all of that. But what you've now said is hardly the same as Alonso... wiping the floor with Hamilton though is it. If you give people equal cars and equal status, then they can show their abilities. Are World Champions supposed to get a leg up to make things easier for them. That's hardly fair. In his first season, the rookie Hamilton showed he was a match for other more experienced drivers, and oh-so-nearly won the F1 championship at the very first attempt. That got up the nose of a few of them. Strangely, it also got up the nose of a few British F1 supporters. I say strangely, because with the exception of those with a vested interest elsewhere, for example, our esteemed friend Ponty [Renault], I would have thought Hamilton's brilliance would have been shouted from the rooftops. Still, there's nowt stranger than folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Hamilton gets results, albeit with a peculiar driving style (I'd hate to engineer his car), and it's impossible to take that away from him. He ranks alongside Kimi as the outright "fast" guys. He's so hard on the car though and the tyres that it's testament to McLaren that he's never had a mechanical DNF. We've yet to see how he performs when the car is poor, although Brasil is surely indicative. The car was set up for the dry, with a reasonably low downforce setting, and he just couldn't cope. I don't think he's quite experienced enough to wring the utmost out of an inferior car (somewhat like Kimi) but there's no doubt that when the car is hooked up he's awesomely quick. Also, as you've alluded to, I can't really bring myself to support him, and I'm sure that would be the case if he was the most genial bloke in the world, which he isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huffton Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Its also worth remembering that the last 2 corners a Interlagos are flat out, theres no way a driver on slicks would be able to hold it with even a small amount of water on the track. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simo Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 I think it was a very good call by mclaren and **** or bust time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponty Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 Studying the footage more closely does reveal something strange though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Posted 3 November, 2008 Share Posted 3 November, 2008 I'm starting to like Toyota more and more. At first they were just like BAR and Honda. Huge budgets, never got anywhere. Now it seems they are starting to progress and Trulli is IMO an underrated driver. Been around since the beginning of time too, more than giving Alonso a run for his money at Renault in 2004. Glock also looks a good driver and one for the future. Not quite in the same league as Hamilton, Kubica and Vettel, but good none-the-less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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