alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 ..players, manager and fans alike. As a few of us expected, the Forest game is nigh and we've brought no-one in. Hence we enter the most challenging period of our season - staying in touch with the promotion places during some tough games with a team severely weakened by injury and suspension. I hope the remaining players and fans can rise to the occasion tomorrow, and fingers crossed the manager has a trick or two up his sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 ..players, manager and fans alike. As a few of us expected, the Forest game is nigh and we've brought no-one in. Hence we enter the most challenging period of our season - staying in touch with the promotion places with a team severely weakened by injury and suspension. I hope the remaining players and fans can rise to the occasion tomorrow, and fingers crossed the manager has a trick or two up his sleeve. Listen to Jos on SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Listen to Jos on SP. will do so at home. Does he make it sound like the team is up for it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Listen to Jos on SP. What does he say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Appy Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 I expect the players wouldn't of tried tomorrow unless this thread came to fruition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 What does he say? Talks about the blip,says players aren't overly concerned, don't win Championships in January but feels that expectations amongst supporters have perhaps got much higher because of our success to date and that if you give them a finger they'll take the whole arm which is apparently a literal translation of some dutch idiom or other.Think there's a written precis on the OS as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Talks about the blip,says players aren't overly concerned, don't win Championships in January but feels that expectations amongst supporters have perhaps got much higher because of our success to date and that if you give them a finger they'll take the whole arm which is apparently a literal translation of some dutch idiom or other.Think there's a written precis on the OS as well. Assuming you've covered all the salient points, I have a problem with these pieces. The players SHOULD be concerned and doing everything possible about it. That just sounds complacent. They should stop making excuses, recognise a loss of form and certainly not be criticising the fans - its the players and managers fault if they have not maintained their own standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Great pep talk Alpine, I'm sure it will make all the difference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 .. As a few of us expected, the Forest game is nigh and we've brought no-one in. . I think you will find most people expected that, it's just the the few you are referring to are the ones panicking about it :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 I think you will find most people expected that, it's just the the few you are referring to are the ones panicking about it :-) Yes, yes, everyone knew it all along.... Anyway, I hope the team rise to the occasion tomorrow. We need to get another Rickie-less game out the way successfully.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Assuming you've covered all the salient points, I have a problem with these pieces. The players SHOULD be concerned and doing everything possible about it. That just sounds complacent. They should stop making excuses, recognise a loss of form and certainly not be criticising the fans - its the players and managers fault if they have not maintained their own standards. They aren't OVERLY concerned. There's a difference. Of course they will want to redress the balance and get back to winning ways, but they'll do that by staying positive and working hard. You're jumping to some pretty big conclusions btw. He did not sound complacent. He didn't make any excuses. He did not criticise the fans. He just recognises that expectation amongst fans has naturally increased but that they as players need to stay focused and not get carried away or panic as a result of the fans' expectations. Oh, and finding fault is the last thing anyone should be doing. Football is not a black and white game. We haven't dropped points solely because someone has done something wrong. It's down to a combination of factors, some more in our control than others, some that could be foreseen, some that couldn't, and much of it down to human factors which can never be fully predicted or influenced to perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 They aren't OVERLY concerned. There's a difference. Of course they will want to redress the balance and get back to winning ways, but they'll do that by staying positive and working hard. You're jumping to some pretty big conclusions btw. He did not sound complacent. He didn't make any excuses. He did not criticise the fans. He just recognises that expectation amongst fans has naturally increased but that they as players need to stay focused and not get carried away or panic as a result of the fans' expectations. Oh, and finding fault is the last thing anyone should be doing. Football is not a black and white game. We haven't dropped points solely because someone has done something wrong. It's down to a combination of factors, some more in our control than others, some that could be foreseen, some that couldn't, and much of it down to human factors which can never be fully predicted or influenced to perfection. Didnt say Jos sounded complacent, I said WC's description of it made it sound complacent. As I said I will listen at home, but it also sounded to me like a mild criticism of the fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iansums Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 What does he say? "The boys are desperate to win this one, if only to shut that tedious pr*ck Alpine up. He really is a miserable pratt, I've half a mind to go back to Celtic just to get away from the dullard". All in a thick Dutch accent of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 "The boys are desperate to win this one, if only to shut that tedious pr*ck Alpine up. He really is a miserable pratt, I've half a mind to go back to Celtic just to get away from the dullard". All in a thick Dutch accent of course. If me being a tedious pr*ck helps motivate them, I am happy to be of service... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Sigh. It's like getting a motivational speech from Sylvia Plath. I hope the remaining players and fans can rise to the occasion tomorrow, and fingers crossed the manager has a trick or two up his sleeve. Yep, deeply negative and controversial..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry the Badger Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Yes, yes, everyone knew it all along.... .. No really, we did. Every transfer window, almost all of the business is done in the last week. It really isn't a surprise to anybody, at all, so don't try to pretend you had some sort of magical foresight. Just because only a few were whinging about it doesn't mean only a few knew how it would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Didnt say Jos sounded complacent, I said WC's description of it made it sound complacent. As I said I will listen at home, but it also sounded to me like a mild criticism of the fans. I think you are reading too much into it. That's not how it came across to me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Unlike Alpine to overreact about something he's neither seen or heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 decided not to use my ticket for Nottingham in case I do not live up to Alpine's standards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emerson massey Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Nice bit of character assassination going on here - the man has a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
70's Mike Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Nice bit of character assassination going on here - the man has a point which is, knock those who spend their cash going to games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Sigh. It's like getting a motivational speech from Sylvia Plath. Careful. Ted Hughes will be along in a mo to hold your head in an oven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 which is' date=' knock those who spend their cash going to games[/quote'] Yeah, of course it was Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horley CTFC Saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 ..players, manager and fans alike. As a few of us expected, the Forest game is nigh and we've brought no-one in. Hence we enter the most challenging period of our season - staying in touch with the promotion places during some tough games with a team severely weakened by injury and suspension. I hope the remaining players and fans can rise to the occasion tomorrow, and fingers crossed the manager has a trick or two up his sleeve. I'll slit me throat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crouchi Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Aren't Ipswich the only team Forest have scored against since November? Just need to be geared up for shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Sigh. It's like getting a motivational speech from Sylvia Plath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InvictaSaint Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Sigh. It's like getting a motivational speech from Sylvia Plath. Post of the century, no question. Just spat my coffee all over my keyboard!! Very funny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fan The Flames Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 If me being a tedious pr*ck helps motivate them, I am happy to be of service... It didn't help them during December. Surley this should be in the build up thread or it is another 'cooee look at me' thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Billy Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Ten games ago I was confident, now I am hoping we will get over our loss of form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 I wish these transfer windows were done away with purely so we don't have to keep hearing the same drivel from four or five posters who wet themselves everytime because "Oh no, we're a fortnight in and we haven't spend £20million!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 I wish these transfer windows were done away with purely so we don't have to keep hearing the same drivel from four or five posters who wet themselves everytime because "Oh no, we're a fortnight in and we haven't spend £20million!" Don't you just yearn for the days when keeping hold of our better players was considered as a very positive window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 As expected we have made very little impact in the transfer market which mirrors our modest actions in the summer. I see no serious evidence of an ambition to get promoted and everything points to a slide down the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No 2 to Maybush Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 I wish these transfer windows were done away with purely so we don't have to keep hearing the same drivel from four or five posters who wet themselves everytime because "Oh no, we're a fortnight in and we haven't spend £20million!" Well I for one was expecting our targets to be clearly defined and brought in early in the window. Do I qualify as a gloomer? Just seems like common sense to me. The fact that Ricky is suspended, Barnard and Guly out and Connelly just coming back just highlights the lack of preplanning if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint-Armstrong Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Well I for one was expecting our targets to be clearly defined and brought in early in the window. Do I qualify as a gloomer? Just seems like common sense to me. The fact that Ricky is suspended, Barnard and Guly out and Connelly just coming back just highlights the lack of preplanning if you ask me. A lack of planning? Adkins has said, and it has been reported too, that Tadanari Lee was on our radar for quite some time, and it was legal procedures holding it up. I'm sorry Mr. Border Force, let us just bring this player in really quickly on January the 1st to aid our title bid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Well I for one was expecting our targets to be clearly defined and brought in early in the window. Do I qualify as a gloomer? Just seems like common sense to me. The fact that Ricky is suspended, Barnard and Guly out and Connelly just coming back just highlights the lack of preplanning if you ask me. Agree with you completely, but its a bit of a taboo opinion in these parts. Anyway, hope it goes well tomorrow, definitely a chance for NA to show his tactical and motivational nous... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Agree with you completely, but its a bit of a taboo opinion in these parts. Anyway, hope it goes well tomorrow, definitely a chance for NA to show his tactical and motivational nous... Right, so the fact that Rickie's suspension and Guly's injury happened DURING THE TRANSFER WINDOW highlights a lack of preplanning does it? Bloody pointless bellyaching again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Well I for one was expecting our targets to be clearly defined and brought in early in the window. Do I qualify as a gloomer? Just seems like common sense to me. The fact that Ricky is suspended, Barnard and Guly out and Connelly just coming back just highlights the lack of preplanning if you ask me. Just stop for a second and THINK about what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 13 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 13 January, 2012 (edited) Right, so the fact that Rickie's suspension and Guly's injury happened DURING THE TRANSFER WINDOW highlights a lack of preplanning does it? Bloody pointless bellyaching again. Yes, it revealled the lack of depth in the squad that management team should have known about and done something about. For example, Barnard has been injured for a long time, Connolly has not been reliable to be fit since he got here, and NA has had enough looks at Forte. Gonna be an interesting starting line-up tomorrow. Is Goolie really fit, as the Echo claims ? Edited 13 January, 2012 by alpine_saint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopkins Posted 13 January, 2012 Share Posted 13 January, 2012 Well I for one was expecting our targets to be clearly defined and brought in early in the window. Do I qualify as a gloomer? Just seems like common sense to me. The fact that Ricky is suspended, Barnard and Guly out and Connelly just coming back just highlights the lack of preplanning if you ask me. It's a lovely expectation. One I'm sure everyone would agree with. Howver, it's hardly realistic is it? Unfortunately for us selling clubs need to agree to sell before we can sign. Shock horror, clubs don't really want to agree to sell early in transfer windows, unless they have themselves something lined up..which then brings in another selling club into the equation and the cycle is seemingly never ending. This leads to the last week of the transfer window being frantic, the last day becoming mental..... Teams become desperate and either up the money they are willing to spend or lower their selling demands. Clubs like to get the best deal possible for themselves. This leads them to hoping/expecting/waiting for better deals to become available (Both selling and signing). Further to clubs stalling you also have players stalling. Players are probably the most in control. They might get offered something early in the window and have the right to think "If they are offering me this now...Imagine what they OR even better...a bigger club... might offer me if I just stall for a bit longer". Despite it being seemingly easy on paper...Transfers rely on the subjective nature of humans past experiences, feelings, emotions, demands and self values... We can pre plan all we want...If another club or player doesn't agree to the terms we ourselves feel is right to offer them then they won't sign and negotiations, stalling, and games (media and boardroom) get played. Just look at the lack of transfer activity in England so far and other transfer windows for proof that more deals happen later in the window. That's common sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smirking_Saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Well done Alps, just talked to Adkins and he didnt have a clue what to do before logging into SWF tonight, thankfully you took the time to post this little gem up. It really has done wonders too, Cortese has taken your word of advice onboard and has spent the evening on FM12 scouting potential targets (not MLG's ratings as they are so far off the mark its cringeworthy). Seriously FFS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Saints will show some mettle and dig deep and beat Nottingham 3-1... WIFM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 It's a lovely expectation. One I'm sure everyone would agree with. Howver, it's hardly realistic is it? Unfortunately for us selling clubs need to agree to sell before we can sign. Shock horror, clubs don't really want to agree to sell early in transfer windows, unless they have themselves something lined up..which then brings in another selling club into the equation and the cycle is seemingly never ending. This leads to the last week of the transfer window being frantic, the last day becoming mental..... Teams become desperate and either up the money they are willing to spend or lower their selling demands. Clubs like to get the best deal possible for themselves. This leads them to hoping/expecting/waiting for better deals to become available (Both selling and signing). Further to clubs stalling you also have players stalling. Players are probably the most in control. They might get offered something early in the window and have the right to think "If they are offering me this now...Imagine what they OR even better...a bigger club... might offer me if I just stall for a bit longer". Despite it being seemingly easy on paper...Transfers rely on the subjective nature of humans past experiences, feelings, emotions, demands and self values... We can pre plan all we want...If another club or player doesn't agree to the terms we ourselves feel is right to offer them then they won't sign and negotiations, stalling, and games (media and boardroom) get played. Just look at the lack of transfer activity in England so far and other transfer windows for proof that more deals happen later in the window. That's common sense to me. Yes, the January window is more difficult to operate in and often used for topping up. Your analysis only backs up my statement that we were complacent in the summer and not fully prepared for a promotion campaign. Furthermore, my opinion that we set out with modest expectations this season are confirmed. You, I am afraid, are 'barking up the wrong tree'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Yes, the January window is more difficult to operate in and often used for topping up. Your analysis only backs up my statement that we were complacent in the summer and not fully prepared for a promotion campaign. Seems the club officials were caught as wrong-footed as the fans by our superb start to the season. In fairness, I think that is understandable. What I have less sympathy for is the clear latency in our transfer activity, which threatens to undo all the good work. We have maybe as many as 6 first-teamers missing today, FFS !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Who? Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Win today, and beat Leicester and we will be back on track, anything less than 4 points is not good. No win in the next two games, we need players in fast......hooper please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastleighSoulBoy Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 ..players, manager and fans alike. As a few of us expected, the Forest game is nigh and we've brought no-one in. Hence we enter the most challenging period of our season - staying in touch with the promotion places during some tough games with a team severely weakened by injury and suspension. I hope the remaining players and fans can rise to the occasion tomorrow, and fingers crossed the manager has a trick or two up his sleeve. Don't panic Mr Mainwaring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batterseasaint Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Yes, the January window is more difficult to operate in and often used for topping up. Your analysis only backs up my statement that we were complacent in the summer and not fully prepared for a promotion campaign. Furthermore, my opinion that we set out with modest expectations this season are confirmed. You, I am afraid, are 'barking up the wrong tree'. It doesn't back up your assertion that we were complacent in the slightest. However, it does back up the fact that we had more modest expectations, which is absolutely fair enough given the fact that we'd just got promotion. That doesn't make Cortese and Nige complacent though. Both of them recognized that we already had a strong squad of good, loyal players and the core of that squad could give us a year of solid acclimatization in the Champ. So they rewarded that squad who gained us promotion by building the Championship team around them and adding some high quality players with experience at a higher level, such as Cork, De Ridder, Fox and Hooiveld, all of whom have played either in the top division or in Europe. Clearly we wanted another striker on top of that; we all know that. But the right player could not be prised away at the right money. We could, of course, have taken the approach that you seem to be advocating. We could have thrown lots of money at the problem and bought just about everyone who was available who was willing to play at this level by enticing them with big wages. Then we could have stuck half our promotion squad in the stiffs to get disillusioned so by the time injuries come round half way through the season, these players are in no fit state to step into the team and are demanding a january move anyway. If you want some proof of how successful this approach can be, take a quick look at Leicester's league position. And then take another look at ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 What I have less sympathy for is the clear latency in our transfer activity, which threatens to undo all the good work. We have maybe as many as 6 first-teamers missing today, FFS !! Without being in a position of authority in the club, it is obviously impossible to prove, but given that Adkins has said several times now that they are working hard to bring players in, are you saying that you basically don't believe him, or that he is lying. Do you ever put any faith in the manager and his staff (especially one that has earnt some), or just because nothing has actually been signed sealed and delivered yet, is it imperitive that you judge that to mean that nothing is happening and therefore someone is being negligent. We may have 6 first teamers missing today because of injury and suspension. IMO, NO CLUB would sign enough players in the first 13 days of a transfer window to overcome that problem, especially when quite a few of those players were available for selection when the transfer window opened... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and while I can understand fans being anxious for news and wanting to hear about transfers, I genuinely fail to see how you can interpret 'We are working hard' to be 'clear latency' and afford the club ZERO benefit of any doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Amen to everything batterseasaint said too btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 14 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 14 January, 2012 Without being in a position of authority in the club, it is obviously impossible to prove, but given that Adkins has said several times now that they are working hard to bring players in, are you saying that you basically don't believe him, or that he is lying. Do you ever put any faith in the manager and his staff (especially one that has earnt some), or just because nothing has actually been signed sealed and delivered yet, is it imperitive that you judge that to mean that nothing is happening and therefore someone is being negligent. We may have 6 first teamers missing today because of injury and suspension. IMO, NO CLUB would sign enough players in the first 13 days of a transfer window to overcome that problem, especially when quite a few of those players were available for selection when the transfer window opened... I guess we'll have to agree to disagree and while I can understand fans being anxious for news and wanting to hear about transfers, I genuinely fail to see how you can interpret 'We are working hard' to be 'clear latency' and afford the club ZERO benefit of any doubt. I DO believe NA. But I also think that, maybe Lee excepted, a lot of the activity started too late (and whats actually the hold-up in his signature now ??? We heard he got his permit sorted out on Wenesday or Thursday and it takes about 12 hours from Nariita to Heathrow). How do you know the identification of other targets was taken seriously before such events as Chaplow's second breakdown or Rickie's red card ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 14 January, 2012 Share Posted 14 January, 2012 I DO believe NA. But I also think that, maybe Lee excepted, a lot of the activity started too late (and whats actually the hold-up in his signature now ??? We heard he got his permit sorted out on Wenesday or Thursday and it takes about 12 hours from Nariita to Heathrow). On what basis do you think 'a lot of the activity started too late'? Just a hunch? A natural disposition to think the club are incompetant? That's what I'm trying to understand... what reasoning, that I or someone else can appreciate, do you have for this opinion? As for Lee, Adkins also made it quite clear that he has 'red tape' to sort out in Japan... do you know how their border control system works? No, neither do I. So why suspect that NA is again either wrong or lying in that regard too. How do you know the identification of other targets was taken seriously before such events as Chaplow's second breakdown or Rickie's red card ? I don't, however my whole point was why take an automatically negative view in the absence of other evidence, ESPECIALLY given that we KNOW the club try to conduct all their negotiations in private nowadays? Why not actually try believing that the club are being honest and judge them AFTER the window has shut. How would you feel if everyone continually doubted everything you said until you actually produced the goods. It would probably give you inclination to think 'well why should I bother if we're going to be questioned and doubted at every juncture'. The club are bigger than that, but I just think it's a real shame that a clubs fans, the people who are supposed to support and have some faith in their club, should have such an automatically doubtful perspective. As I said, if you can give me some clear reasoning for why you hold this opinion, other than it just being your gut feeling, I might appreciate it a bit more, but it appears to be negativity for the sake of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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