Pilchards Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 The Independant have a big article about Luke Shaw our promising youngster.It says we have put a 4m price tag on him and that Arsenal are leading the way over City, Liverpool etc.What a load of ****, why would we sell one of the hottest prospects in English football?Hope someone can put the article on here please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSaint Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-face-a-battle-for-saints-4m-teen-6287747.html Selling would be contradictory to NC and NA's dream to have half the team come from the academy. Seems to me that someone (Agent) is out to unsettle him before he signs professional papers with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken With A Banjo Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 The most interesting bit for me was the mention of Calum Chambers as the next big prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazing Hangover Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 'Whether Shaw leaves this month or next summer will depend on whether the clubs chasing him can agree a fee with Southampton'. Already been decided then. By who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Why sell for £4m now when, if all the predictions are correct, he'll be in double figure £ms this time next year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Is he on a pro contract yet though?.... does that limit our options to say feck off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 If this article was in one of the tabloids it'd be getting ripped to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheaf Saint Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Final proof, if ever it were needed, that football has completely lost touch with reality. The global economy is in crisis, but a 16-year-old with a talent for kicking a leather ball and has yet to make his first team debut is valued at £4m? Seriously... WTF!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 The most interesting bit for me was the mention of Calum Chambers as the next big prospect. Chambers really impressed me vs Man Utd in the youth match. Great footwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Site Agent Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Well I can see Mr Cortese getting a call from Arse, Man U, Man C, Liverpool and telling them that they can have him for 20 million. And Callum comes in at 25 million. Until the EPPP comes in which allows Premiership clubs to steal local talent off of smaller clubs without the need to compensate the smaller clubs sufficiently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Let's not get carried away here. The long term ambition of having a first team made up of 50% academy players does not rely on no sales whatsoever. If you are producing 6 players of quality each year, you need to be holding on to about two of them. Two will possibly not be quite up to the grade and maybe sold to lower clubs (but still make it as good players) and two will possibly be impatient and want to join Arsenal or whoever to (in their view) progress their career. Those sales will be an essential part of the club being financially self sufficient. It does not make us a selling club, just a well run club. Having said that, if Luke is that good I hope we can hang on to him. Incidentally I don't think we can pin him down to a contract before July. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Which is probably why he hasn't played for us yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Well I can see Mr Cortese getting a call from Arse, Man U, Man C, Liverpool and telling them that they can have him for 20 million. And Callum comes in at 25 million. Until the EPPP comes in which allows Premiership clubs to steal local talent off of smaller clubs without the need to compensate the smaller clubs sufficiently. That's not how it will work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Which is probably why he hasn't played for us yet. What difference would that make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 It is all quite depressing though isn't it, seeing the list of "great" players we have produced means nothing to me, Bale, Walcott, Chamberlain, all jolly good for Arsenal and Spurs but if us as saints fans don't get to see them doing the biz for saints then it means nothing. Guess the money all helps if we spend wisely, if we did get most of the chamberlain money £12M up front that should be used as a fund to try and gain promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 It is all quite depressing though isn't it, seeing the list of "great" players we have produced means nothing to me, Bale, Walcott, Chamberlain, all jolly good for Arsenal and Spurs but if us as saints fans don't get to see them doing the biz for saints then it means nothing. Guess the money all helps if we spend wisely, if we did get most of the chamberlain money £12M up front that should be used as a fund to try and gain promotion. Indeed mate. If we do get promoted, obviously Nigel and the lads would have done a great job, but if we spend a lot this transfer window, we can also thank the Academy for bringing us the funds to do, via Chamberlain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 What difference would that make?although I'm sure the big clubs will have looked at him, I'm sure if he was playing every week in the NPC and doing well just like Bale was, he'd be raising a few more eyebrows, and he can just leave before he's 17 can't he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 It is all quite depressing though isn't it, seeing the list of "great" players we have produced means nothing to me, Bale, Walcott, Chamberlain, all jolly good for Arsenal and Spurs but if us as saints fans don't get to see them doing the biz for saints then it means nothing. Guess the money all helps if we spend wisely, if we did get most of the chamberlain money £12M up front that should be used as a fund to try and gain promotion. Obviously it hurts to lose your own kids. But then we have to add back in that as we have progressed up L1 & now the nPc and hopefully beyond, we will be doing exactly the same to smaller clubs (as we did with Walcott) and hopefully with Jack Stephens. (And it could be argued now with Jack Cork) Hopefully this time around in the PL we will be "stealing" some great young players of our own to play at the top level. Doesn't make it right of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribbo Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Let's not get carried away here. The long term ambition of having a first team made up of 50% academy players does not rely on no sales whatsoever. If you are producing 6 players of quality each year, you need to be holding on to about two of them. Two will possibly not be quite up to the grade and maybe sold to lower clubs (but still make it as good players) and two will possibly be impatient and want to join Arsenal or whoever to (in their view) progress their career. Those sales will be an essential part of the club being financially self sufficient. It does not make us a selling club, just a well run club. Having said that, if Luke is that good I hope we can hang on to him. Incidentally I don't think we can pin him down to a contract before July. I used to call this method of youth development the Lloyd James Principal, but that kinda failed, then I called it the Oscar Gobern Principal, but we all know what happened there it's the future tho!! regarding EPPP, it's ******* terrible for the football pyramid and everything thats wrong in the game but it's null and void if theres a bidding war (other than the starting figure starts REALLY low) I dont like how the Independant article expects it to happen while at the same time building the hype surrounding the player, I dont know whether to believe that the players actually going to leave before his 17th birthday (where as a redtop I know that it's not to be believed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 although I'm sure the big clubs will have looked at him, I'm sure if he was playing every week in the NPC and doing well just like Bale was, he'd be raising a few more eyebrows, and he can just leave before he's 17 can't he? Yep, it wouldn't surprise me if Cortese/Adkins have been holding him back from the 1st team until he's 17. Look how quickly Chamberlain's eyes were turned after 10 games in the limelight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Looking forward to NC squeezing Arsenal's pips until they squeak again.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eelpie Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Let's not get carried away here. The long term ambition of having a first team made up of 50% academy players does not rely on no sales whatsoever. If you are producing 6 players of quality each year, you need to be holding on to about two of them. Two will possibly not be quite up to the grade and maybe sold to lower clubs (but still make it as good players) and two will possibly be impatient and want to join Arsenal or whoever to (in their view) progress their career. Those sales will be an essential part of the club being financially self sufficient. It does not make us a selling club, just a well run club. Having said that, if Luke is that good I hope we can hang on to him. Incidentally I don't think we can pin him down to a contract before July. Not all the players can make it to the first team for many reasons of course, but any gifted players trained and sold by us means that they will probably be playing against us at some time, an ironic inevitability. Then if they progress we can be missing out on sell-on fees, so including a sell-on clause is a must with all our youngsters imho. We can't always tell who develops late and makes it big. Like Phillips or Scott MacDonald for two examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Final proof, if ever it were needed, that football has completely lost touch with reality. The global economy is in crisis, but a 16-year-old with a talent for kicking a leather ball and has yet to make his first team debut is valued at £4m? Seriously... WTF!?!? If you are looking for a sense of perspective and commonsense valuations then you really should not be wasting your time with football or on football forums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lambertsrightleg Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 he's a skate, there won't be any loyalty from him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 he's a skate, there won't be any loyalty from him Who is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 he's a skate, there won't be any loyalty from him Are you confusing Shaw with Ward-Prowse? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-face-a-battle-for-saints-4m-teen-6287747.html Selling would be contradictory to NC and NA's dream to have half the team come from the academy. Seems to me that someone (Agent) is out to unsettle him before he signs professional papers with us. What was the actual quote for this? I can't find it now but I read it at the time as being 50% of players in the youth team progressing through to the first team. This would imply that we would be selling home grown talent as we wouldn;t be able to keep them all. (Of course I may just have mis-read it and be completely wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Arsenal need to be careful with this sort of thing. Look at Luke Freeman, they thought he was a legend in the making, instead he's been flogged to Stevenage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 What was the actual quote for this? I can't find it now but I read it at the time as being 50% of players in the youth team progressing through to the first team. This would imply that we would be selling home grown talent as we wouldn;t be able to keep them all. (Of course I may just have mis-read it and be completely wrong) It can also imply that there will be some who do not make the grade and either drop out of football or go to lower league clubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintNeil90 Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 What was the actual quote for this? I can't find it now but I read it at the time as being 50% of players in the youth team progressing through to the first team. This would imply that we would be selling home grown talent as we wouldn;t be able to keep them all. (Of course I may just have mis-read it and be completely wrong) Think logically... We would not sell the best 50% would we. Unless they want to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clapham Saint Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Think logically... We would not sell the best 50% would we. Unless they want to leave. That wasn't the point I was making though was it. 50% of the first team coming from the youth squad implies a top quality youth set up generating top quality players which we want to keep long term. 50% of the youth squad getting an appearance in the first team (before then being sold as we couldn't keep 50% every year) isn't quite the same thing. To be fair I think I'm just being a bit an al and pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MbaleSaint Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Obviously it hurts to lose your own kids. But then we have to add back in that as we have progressed up L1 & now the nPc and hopefully beyond, we will be doing exactly the same to smaller clubs (as we did with Walcott) and hopefully with Jack Stephens. (And it could be argued now with Jack Cork) Hopefully this time around in the PL we will be "stealing" some great young players of our own to play at the top level. Doesn't make it right of course We 'stole' Jack Cork from that small club Chelsea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-face-a-battle-for-saints-4m-teen-6287747.html "Shaw is understood to have agreed a professional deal with Southampton to begin when he turns 17 in July" The article isn't well researched, there is no doubt about his contract status as the Independent implies. Why have they put an element of doubt when a simple look on the Southampton OS would show this... http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2228492,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow_Saint Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-face-a-battle-for-saints-4m-teen-6287747.html "Shaw is understood to have agreed a professional deal with Southampton to begin when he turns 17 in July" The article isn't well researched, there is no doubt about his contract status as the Independent implies. Why have they put an element of doubt when a simple look on the Southampton OS would show this... http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2228492,00.html where do you work MLG? whats your job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 where do you work MLG? whats your job? He makes combs for teeth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 Nope, handles for forks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkenSaint Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 he's a skate, there won't be any loyalty from him He's not a skate get your facts right, he's originally from kingston, surrey. We have been reported to have already agreed a deal with him as soon as he's 17 but with bigger clubs knocking on his door with a contract we might lose him. Im sure he would have 1st team action for us next season or he can do a Walcott/oxo and be stuck in the reserves for 2 years doing nothing apart from the odd game now and again. I'll always say this, 1st team action improves your game not training with a bigger team playing a handfull of reserves games a season with only about 200 ppl watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 11 January, 2012 Share Posted 11 January, 2012 (edited) I do think that this "waffle " from a so-called quality paper shows the lack of knowledge that SFC have with regard to young players... Do they think we are one of these debt-ridden clubs only too willing to hand over our " crown jewels " for a few million? Surely the original deals for Walcott, Bale and AOC are the yardstick for values to use ..and then only if we see that we don't need the player concerned. This type of " negative reporting " only goes to show the level that journalism has stooped to..attempting to turn the lad's head by waving a " big name club in the headline of the story. Do we/he / they ... know that someone at SFC has already put a £4 million price tag on the boy's head ? Shaw ..and a number of others ..have a better chance of getting games with us than with those other clubs mentioned. After the disgraceful "bargaining " that some journalists entered into... (taking on the role of an auctioneer)... prior to the AOC transfer, now those same people are now saying he is unsettled and wants away ! Why is it that no-one has dared to sue one of these "gutter jounalists " for libel.. as some "celebs " do ..and often win the case. Edited 11 January, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 The Independant have a big article about Luke Shaw our promising youngster.It says we have put a 4m price tag on him and that Arsenal are leading the way over City, Liverpool etc.What a load of ****, why would we sell one of the hottest prospects in English football?Hope someone can put the article on here please. oh ! ...so that means "someone " phoned to Cortese ..and he said... OK, I'll sell the lad, he will cost you £4 million...eh ? (shoddy journalism at it's lowest ebb). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 If he is as good as the publicity he'll cost them another £15m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 It's doing my nut in. We're just a feeder club. Instead of wasting all this money on us and our players, why not invest it into developing their own scouting system rather than using ours? He'd be an absolute idiot to move before he's made an appearance for us anyway. I'm sure Chambo is loving the money he's getting, but surely he'd rather be playing at the top of a league....who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 I think we're forgetting that the new academy rules come into effect next season so he will probably go to Arsenal for peanuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 (edited) I think we're forgetting that the new academy rules come into effect next season so he will probably go to Arsenal for peanuts. You are also forgetting that he has already signed a 3 year contract with Saints... http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2228492,00.html Edited 12 January, 2012 by Matthew Le God Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 I think we're forgetting that the new academy rules come into effect next season so he will probably go to Arsenal for peanuts. Aren't we going to be classes at the same level as Arsenal though? In effect this new rule is excellent for us as we'll be given Class A grading, but it's a killer for other clubs in the lower leagues who will undoubtedly have all their talent picked off by the bigger clubs and to be honest it will probably end up being us doing a bit of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VectisSaint Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 You are also forgetting that he has already signed a 3 year contract with Saints... http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10280~2228492,00.html Something contradictory there, since players cannot sign full professional contracts until they are 17. Luke is 17 in July. We seem to have a knack of developing LBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Le God Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 Something contradictory there, since players cannot sign full professional contracts until they are 17. Luke is 17 in July. Not at all, you can sign a contract that takes effect from your 17th birthday. Which is what Saints have done with a large number of their current scholars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 Something contradictory there, since players cannot sign full professional contracts until they are 17. Luke is 17 in July. Like MLG said, you can offer a youth player a professional contract at any time which will take effect as soon as they turn 17. If we didn't do that there would be a huge scramble to pick off our best players for nothing just before they turned 17 as they would technically be available on a free transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRM Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 Like MLG said, you can offer a youth player a professional contract at any time which will take effect as soon as they turn 17. If we didn't do that there would be a huge scramble to pick off our best players for nothing just before they turned 17 as they would technically be available on a free transfer. but if the contract takes effect when he is 17 what is stopping him walking before that? assume the contract is not legally binding until that date Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperMikey Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 but if the contract takes effect when he is 17 what is stopping him walking before that? assume the contract is not legally binding until that date He is still under contract with the club then, just not a professional contract. A bid would have to be made for him if another club wanted to sign him. Although you can have 17 year olds on youth contracts, so I think my original point may have been a bit wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammysaint Posted 12 January, 2012 Share Posted 12 January, 2012 We really our one of the best clubs in europe for producing talent, if only we could keep them and be one of the top clubs in europe. Stay Nipper Arsenal arent worth going to there not going to be in that top 4 again for a few years or for a very long time if they lose AW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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