Titanic Sinking 100th Anniversary at SMS

[PhilippineSaint]

Great post. I would've thought the club would want to do something to mark the anniversary, especially as it falls exactly on the 100 year anniversary. If they don't however, I don't think we should use it as the latest stick to beat the club / NC with.

 

This

 

and the Avenue road work diversion has been rerouted to back on track

[Cascadia Saint]

oh and alpine, dont forget to keep those blades far away from arm's reach ;-)

 

Cheap shot, no need. What a c ock.

[Avenue Saint]

Great post. I would've thought the club would want to do something to mark the anniversary, especially as it falls exactly on the 100 year anniversary. If they don't however, I don't think we should use it as the latest stick to beat the club / NC with.

 

Anyway...

 

This is agreeable. Would be great for the club to acknowledge it in some form to some extent but in the event that it doesn't happen, don't beat the club up about it.

[This Charming Man]

Says he with the avatar of gazza inciting the catholics with the flute...

 

Kiss my arse you bellend.

 

I'm just a bigot at heart...

 

As for the foul language and the petty name calling, there's just no need for it. Not only does it show your lack of intelligence, there are people of a sensitive disposition who read this forum and they really don't need to be subjected to your foul mouthed ramblings.

[Avenue Saint]

I'm just a bigot at heart...

 

As for the foul language and the petty name calling, there's just no need for it. Not only does it show your lack of intelligence, there are people of a sensitive disposition who read this forum and they really don't need to be subjected to your foul mouthed ramblings.

 

Move on...

[hypochondriac]

What colours are they?

 

Not tolerating prejudicial bollix?

 

Be quiet.

 

Vulgar and abusive language, taking the forum far too seriously when you have been banging on over the last few days about other posters doing exactly that.

[benjii]

We seem to be having a "Will Fox" moment.

[Avenue Saint]

Vulgar and abusive language, taking the forum far too seriously when you have been banging on over the last few days about other posters doing exactly that.

 

Calling a SELF CONFESSED bigot, a bell end has got your Ricky Martin world shaking at the rafters???

 

Do me favour and please save your crap for someone else...

[hypochondriac]

We seem to be having a "Will Fox" moment.

 

My thoughts exactly...

[edprice1984]

My grandmother was a Titanic widow, having lost her husband, a crew member.

 

With all due respect Alps, I wouldn't necessarily be looking to the football club I support to mark the occasion.

 

I can understand and respect why you began this thread, and get what you are saying about Saints being an integral club part of the community, but I also don't think my deceased dad, uncles and aunts would have expected the club to mark the occasion.

 

Their main issue was that they felt the city didn't mark it properly or appropriately for many years. The officers and engineers had the grand memorial opposite the cenotaph.

 

The ordinary seamens' memorial was the drinking fountain that was on The Common for years until a campaign got it moved into Holyrood Church.

 

It will be interesting to see what Liverpool do, if anything. Despite the fact the Titanic never visited the port, and few crew members came from there, they claim the home of the White Star Line, and isn't the mast of one the Titanic's sister ships outside the Kop end?

 

They'll milk it for all its worth, no doubt.

 

You are thinkimg about the mast of the Great Eastern, which at the time it was built by Isambard Kingdom Brunel was the largest ship ever built...

[John Boy Saint]

So let's recap: we are at home on the exact 100th anniversary of what is probably the best known maritime disaster in history, one that is inextricably linked with the city of Southampton and one that took the life's of probably hundreds of the city's seafaring workers and no doubt impacted on '000s more within the city. Indeed very many of those killed would have been from the very communities who lived in and around the area where our stadium is now located and no doubt walked down the same roads that many of us will have walked to and from the stadium.

 

The city is running a series of 'events' to mark this occasion. As the game at SMS will represent the largest public gathering that will take place in the city that week what better way to let the ordinary people to take part in a simple act of rememberence to those on the Titanic and to all those from the city who have perished at sea and in war. I would suggest that to a lot of people 'city and club' are intertwined and they would welcome the opportunity to offer a simple public mark of respect to our proud forefathers. And further that to hold a small ceremony would show the club to be very much at the centre of the city.

 

What's not to like?

 

Spot on.

[stardustonmyfeet]

a bell end has got your Ricky Martin world shaking at the rafters???

 

What the hell is a Ricky Martin world..?

[CLOTH EARS]

I had 3 great, great uncles aged 34 24 & 21 from Fritham in the New Forest ( 2nd Class passengers ) that went down on the Titanic.

[alpine_saint]

Great post. I would've thought the club would want to do something to mark the anniversary, especially as it falls exactly on the 100 year anniversary. If they don't however, I don't think we should use it as the latest stick to beat the club / NC with.

 

I am comfortable with that. I just happened to notice we were home on the 14th, which is officially the day, exactly 100 years later, that the Titanic struck the iceberg, and therefore wondered if anyone knew if the club had something planned.

 

Whilst I would find it a little odd if the club doesnt, I wouldnt be inclined to make a big drama out of it.

[alpine_saint]

What about the hundreds of people that died during the plague in Southampton? Shall we get the club to do something for them too?

 

Did they all die on a certain date, in a 2 hour window, with a significant anniversary coniciding with a match at SMS ?

 

The club unveilled a plaque with regards to WW2; I have no problem with them doing the same if you insist, but seeing as this was hundreds of years ago and there are therefore no descendants affected (Titanic was only a couple of generations ago), it seems a bit disconnected with the present.

 

I think you are making an argument for its own sake, to be honest..

[Special K]

I think it's a great idea to remember in some small way, with something that is tasteful and discrete. Maybe we could do something at half time, like get Lawrie Mac to go in goal, dressed up as an iceberg and Mike Osman try and score a penalty, whilst donning a gurt big pair of fake, but realistic, Kate Winslet Bristols. I think it's a winner, bringing together football and history (and tits, of course).

[Legod Third Coming]

Its not because any same and rational person would see past it.

 

My point being, are we having a minutes (whatever is trendy) for Gary Ablett, who has as much in common with Saints as Gary Speed? Two great blokes probably, but one selfish man who left a wife and kids gets unprecedented media coverage and the whole footballing nation clapping him to heaven, and one who died of bad luck basically.

 

The point about The Titanic is where do you stop? There will be numerous opportunities within the city to recognise and remember those who died, anyone that can be bothered will probably be able to go to some church service or another. If you are not that bothered, then a minutes silence at SMS is inappropriate to you anyway.

 

Mate, I tend to agree with your argument until the point where you dismiss mental illness as some form of selfishness.

When you have suffered from clinical depression and come back from the bring do come along and tell us what a jaunt it was...

 

Back to the point, the unexpected loss of life at any time is sad, but when is it a football club's role to lead the memorial?

[Alain Perrin]

I lost 2 distant relatives amongst the crew, apparently. I know the name of one and found him on the list, but dont know the other.

 

I bet being on a ship with them was a barrel of laughs....

 

"I've been saying since we've left Southampton we're doomed"

"That Captain Smith doesn't know what he's doing"

"We'd go faster if this was welsh coal"

"We're going to sink, I tells you"

"We need to sign more look outs"

[Legod Third Coming]

I bet being on a ship with them was a barrel of laughs....

 

"I've been saying since we've left Southampton we're doomed"

"That Captain Smith doesn't know what he's doing"

"We'd go faster if this was welsh coal"

"We're going to sink, I tells you"

"We need to sign more look outs"

 

And to be fair, at least three of those were proved right...

[alpine_saint]

I bet being on a ship with them was a barrel of laughs....

 

"I've been saying since we've left Southampton we're doomed"

"That Captain Smith doesn't know what he's doing"

"We'd go faster if this was welsh coal"

"We're going to sink, I tells you"

"We need to sign more look outs"

 

Oh dear. A little geeky Thomas The Tank Engine fan...

[alpine_saint]

And to be fair, at least three of those were proved right...

 

[georgeweahscousin]

Sorry but I find the idea of the club doing something for this absurd.

 

It would be setting a serious precedent for anniversaries of this nature, and has little, if nothing to do with the club.

 

The City should do something however.

Edited 11 January, 2012 by georgeweahscousin

[miserableoldgit]

Mate, I tend to agree with your argument until the point where you dismiss mental illness as some form of selfishness.

When you have suffered from clinical depression and come back from the bring do come along and tell us what a jaunt it was...

 

Back to the point, the unexpected loss of life at any time is sad, but when is it a football club's role to lead the memorial?

Sorry, at what point has anyone mentioned the club leading the memorial? I think the original question was whether the club will be doing anything to mark the occaission.

[Marsdinho]

Why don't we just tell Alpine we had a 6 day silence in SMS (The time it took the Carpathia to get to New York with survivors) he'll never know anyway.

 

Also, why do people on here keep assuming that the crew were all Saints fans.

[VectisSaint]

What about the hundreds of people that died during the plague in Southampton? Shall we get the club to do something for them too?

IIRC the plague predated 1885

[VectisSaint]

Why don't we just tell Alpine we had a 6 day silence in SMS (The time it took the Carpathia to get to New York with survivors) he'll never know anyway.

 

Also, why do people on here keep assuming that the crew were all Saints fans.

The Carpathia arrived in NY on the 18th, 3 days after the sinking. The collision occurred late on the 14th but the ship went down 3 hours later on the 15th, and this is the date that the deaths are officially recorded.

 

I don't recall anyone saying the crew were all Saints fans, just that they were residents of Southampton, Hampshire and even the IW. Why do they have to be Saints fans to be remembered, they were relatives and friends of people who were neighbours, workmates and colleagues of Southampton folk. I know in this day and age that we live in a society where some people do not give a feck about their neighbours, but not everyone is of this view and there are still some normal people around. What is hacking me off on this thread is the bile and insensitivity of some of the remarks and attacks on Alpine. I don't see eye to eye with him (and currently have him on Ignore) but in cases such as this he is making a reasonable case and the subject does not warrant some of the crass remarks by some people on here who reply in the way they do because they want to attack someone persoanlly, and instead just make themselves look stupid.

[Marsdinho]

The Carpathia arrived in NY on the 18th, 3 days after the sinking. The collision occurred late on the 14th but the ship went down 3 hours later on the 15th, and this is the date that the deaths are officially recorded. Whoops got my dates mixed up a bit there !!!!

 

I don't recall anyone saying the crew were all Saints fans, read back through the thread just that they were residents of Southampton, Hampshire and even the IW. Why do they have to be Saints fans to be remembered, because of the OP perhaps they were relatives and friends of people who were neighbours, workmates and colleagues of Southampton folk. I know in this day and age that we live in a society where some people do not give a feck about their neighbours, but not everyone is of this view and there are still some normal people around. What is hacking me off on this thread is the bile and insensitivity of some of the remarks and attacks on Alpine. I don't see eye to eye with him (and currently have him on Ignore) but in cases such as this he is making a reasonable case and the subject does not warrant some of the crass remarks by some people on here who reply in the way they do because they want to attack someone persoanlly, and instead just make themselves look stupid.

 

Why do you assume that because some people question why the club should do something for the 100 year anniversary, we don't give a f**k. For your information, I do actually give a f**k, just cant see why we have to do something at SMS. There are far more people that live in the city boundaries that have nothing to do with football, that being the case, why should the local football club get stick if it doesn't do anything.

 

There is only one way to clear this up, lets find a relative and ask them where they plan to mark the occasion, bet they dont say "at SMS", bet they would (quite sensibly) rather mark it at one of the events around the city.

 

Has anyone actually bothered to write / email the club to see if they are planning something.

[JRM]

There are far more people that live in the city boundaries that have nothing to do with football, that being the case, why should the local football club get stick if it doesn't do anything.

 

There is only one way to clear this up, lets find a relative and ask them where they plan to mark the occasion, bet they dont say "at SMS", bet they would (quite sensibly) rather mark it at one of the events around the city.

 

.

 

i think the general jist of the point is the club is a centre point of the community, so would fit with marking an event that is linked to the identity of southampton as a place.

Obviously the main events are going to be the ones posted earlier on this thread being organised by the council, i notice the venues in Oxford St are holding a day of special menus and dress on 7th April which is an interesting choice with Skates at home that day they must be banking on non-football folk for trade.

[leithsaint]

Guess this is what is known as a 'slow news week'

[Marsdinho]

i think the general jist of the point is the club is a centre point of the community, so would fit with marking an event that is linked to the identity of southampton as a place.

Obviously the main events are going to be the ones posted earlier on this thread being organised by the council, i notice the venues in Oxford St are holding a day of special menus and dress on 7th April which is an interesting choice with Skates at home that day they must be banking on non-football folk for trade.

 

Only if you are into football, that's the point of my argument.

 

How is this still on the main board !!!

[Lighthouse]

I don`t know anyone who died in the war (any war come to think of it) but that doesn`t stop me paying my respects on a yearly basis to those who did. Nobody is asking you to grieve. Just pay a small respect to those 550 Southampton residents (many of whom may have been Saints fans) who died that night. Alpine was asking if the club was going to do anything to just mark the centenary of the biggest peacetime tragedy to hit the city. I don`t really mind if they do or they don`t, but there does seem to be some strange attitudes coming out on this thread.

 

The wars were different. Millions of people sacrificed their lives so that the freedoms we hold dear could be maintained for future generations. Everyone owes them a debt of gratitude. You can't compare that to the Titanic, which was a tragic accident and not really relevant to most people alive today.

 

If there is a minutes silence, I'll stand there quietly just like everyone else. Will it mean anything? No, not really. I've never met anyone involved with the Titanic and I've never met anyone who knew anyone on board. A couple of billion other people have died since that night, I don't see how their lives are any more or less relevant.

 

Bearsy may be a silly WUM (it's Deppo for those who don't know) but he has a point with the Gliding club and Badminton Association. A football club has very little relevance to a boat. Some of those 550 Southampton residents may have been Saints fans (I'd have said about 20 or 30 based loosely on today's attendance figures). They may also have liked Hampshire Cricket, dogging and Beef Stroganoff. It's hardly a connection.

 

A minutes silence doesn't mean anything in itself. It's just a stadium full of people standing in silence. 100 years doesn't really mean anything either, it's just a nice round number.

[Alain Perrin]

Oh dear. A little geeky Thomas The Tank Engine fan...

 

Alpine, you made me laugh out loud. You can spot people with young children!

 

Everyone knows that Percy is a really useful engine - and now he's got a new boiler he doesn't need the Welsh coal anymore. Sleep tight

[Legod Third Coming]

Sorry, at what point has anyone mentioned the club leading the memorial? I think the original question was whether the club will be doing anything to mark the occaission.

 

Yes and, in my view, the club might send someone to a memorial service, and those who might wish to show their respects would go to that.

In my view it's not something that a football club should do in isolation of its community.

There seems to be a feeling on here that because the football club is in Southampton, it is somehow representative of the city.

While it is a part of the city, that the point. It is PART of the city and not the other way around. Therefore, in my view, the club should support the city's memoral activity.

Just a view.

It wouldn't offend me if I was asked to stay silent for a minute. If I was asked to clap it would annoy the feck out of me as it always does...

[Bearsy]

I'm watching Titanic now guys and it's having a really powerful effect on me. So many bleak emotions are being stirred here honest guys I feel like crying. It's times like these I realise I never fucked a redhead.

[Noodles34]

Mate, I tend to agree with your argument until the point where you dismiss mental illness as some form of selfishness.

When you have suffered from clinical depression and come back from the bring do come along and tell us what a jaunt it was...

 

Back to the point, the unexpected loss of life at any time is sad, but when is it a football club's role to lead the memorial?

 

Since when was it established that mental illness was the reason that GS took his life? Maybe it has and i have missed it. However, even if that was the case, it clearly wasn't a mental illness that affected his decision making and basic rationale. So, i would still stand by that anyone who takes their own life, leaving behind a family, and especially kids, is being somewhat selfish, as tragic as their circumstances might be. At the end of the day, the bloke was fit enough for Football Focus less than 12 hours earlier. I take nothing away from from GS as a player, God knows every team would have loved him in their side, and no doubt a top bloke, but you cannot deny that there is a slight on someone who does that to his family, but in saying that, there by the grace of God go I.

 

Back to the main point, are we still going on about it? If the club do it, it wont inconvenience anyone, if they dont, then you can (if you are bothered) go to some memorial service somewhere else in the city.

Football is football.

[PhilippineSaint]

I'm watching Titanic now guys and it's having a really powerful effect on me. So many bleak emotions are being stirred here honest guys I feel like crying. It's times like these I realise I never fucked a redhead.

 

you don't want to either they have fanny's like rusty wire brushes

[alpine_saint]

Alpine, you made me laugh out loud. You can spot people with young children!

 

Everyone knows that Percy is a really useful engine - and now he's got a new boiler he doesn't need the Welsh coal anymore. Sleep tight

 

Think you'll find it was Henry, not Percy....

[Bearsy]

you don't want to either they have fanny's like rusty wire brushes

 

Fo' real? You mean to look at or are you saying ginger pubes are more abrasive? It's more the freckles that have put me off to date but I'm thinking that in tribute to the poor lost souls of the Titanic I might have a go on a ginger for the 100 years. Probably have to sign one up quick though cos I imagine a lot of dudes are doing the same thing.

[Saint137]

Does anyone if the club are planning anything prior to the Reading Match on 14th April ?

 

I have just been reading up about the sinking, about entire families like the Goodwins and Rices with tiny children that were wiped out, and about how many of the crew living in Southampton died that night. Look at the list on Wikipedia and where the crew came from. It was a tragedy for the city.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crew_members_on_board_RMS_Titanic

 

I know the club do All Saints Day, but I for one definitely think the club cannot let this match pass without a small symbol of remembrance.

 

That casualty list is sobering reading. Not only was it only 1st class passengers who got off, but it was mostly Deck crew who survived. If you were working class on that ship you were doomed.

[theyin]

I suspect the majority of posters decrying any need for a memorial at the game are the same ones who pass off LM's achievements as inconsequential.

[whelk]

I think the club should find a supporter who is 100 years old this year - and have him/her place a wreath on behalf of SFC at whichever memorial is most appropriate. That will do nicely.

 

No need to interrupt matchday proceedings for this one.

 

Hopefully frogmarched against their will and when they protest that it has nothing to do with them and that they were a baby at the time, these will be dismissed and told not to be so cold hearted.

Wouldnt be a dry eye in the stadium. Oh and Celine Dion piped through the PA juts to really get the emotion heightened.

[alpine_saint]

Hopefully frogmarched against their will and when they protest that it has nothing to do with them and that they were a baby at the time, these will be dismissed and told not to be so cold hearted.

Wouldnt be a dry eye in the stadium. Oh and Celine Dion piped through the PA juts to really get the emotion heightened.

 

Utterly bizarre....

[EastleighSoulBoy]

Its not because any same and rational person would see past it.

 

My point being, are we having a minutes (whatever is trendy) for Gary Ablett, who has as much in common with Saints as Gary Speed? Two great blokes probably, but one selfish man who left a wife and kids gets unprecedented media coverage and the whole footballing nation clapping him to heaven, and one who died of bad luck basically.

 

The point about The Titanic is where do you stop? There will be numerous opportunities within the city to recognise and remember those who died, anyone that can be bothered will probably be able to go to some church service or another. If you are not that bothered, then a minutes silence at SMS is inappropriate to you anyway.

 

I reckon you've called it wrong here Noodles. The lack of good mental health is just as much bad luck as cancer. it's waiting there for anybody who becomes vulnerable to life's pressures. Who really knows what was in Gary Speed's mind when he sought his 'only solution' ? I just wonder if, when you get that far, you have not only totally lost sight of what value you have around you, family, children etc but lost total self value. Was Speed undergoing counseling?

 

All death is a tragedy, in general, so I couldn't value, in this case, either over the other but to dismiss suicide as a selfish act is a rather weak observation.

[Noodles34]

I reckon you've called it wrong here Noodles. The lack of good mental health is just as much bad luck as cancer. it's waiting there for anybody who becomes vulnerable to life's pressures. Who really knows what was in Gary Speed's mind when he sought his 'only solution' ? I just wonder if, when you get that far, you have not only totally lost sight of what value you have around you, family, children etc but lost total self value. Was Speed undergoing counseling?

 

All death is a tragedy, in general, so I couldn't value, in this case, either over the other but to dismiss suicide as a selfish act is a rather weak observation.

 

my point really being is that he could carry himself okay on Football Focus, be with it as such (probably a better way of putting it), so, to me that suggests something. I utterly stand by the term 'selfish', that doesn't neccessarily take anything away from the tragedy and the man himself, its not being dismissive of his obviousl problems, but clearly, he was not an 'off his head nutter', he could think, he probably knew what he was doing, and what it would do to his family, if thats not a case of being selfish, then what it is?

[Legod Third Coming]

my point really being is that he could carry himself okay on Football Focus, be with it as such (probably a better way of putting it), so, to me that suggests something. I utterly stand by the term 'selfish', that doesn't neccessarily take anything away from the tragedy and the man himself, its not being dismissive of his obviousl problems, but clearly, he was not an 'off his head nutter', he could think, he probably knew what he was doing, and what it would do to his family, if thats not a case of being selfish, then what it is?

 

Mate, I feel you should spend some time (genuinely) understanding clinical depression. It is a mental illness - the clue is in the term 'clinical'.

People of sound mind who can make rational judgements are NOT clinically depressed.

Gary Speed (if depressed, which we have to assume) was not able to make a judgement about those he was leaving behind. He was locked in a chamber of mental torture and decided that they only way he could escape was death.

It is tragedy. Selfish it isn't. What is selfish is the failure of so many people to engage with an understand mental illness.

[CB Fry]

I suspect the majority of posters decrying any need for a memorial at the game are the same ones who pass off LM's achievements as inconsequential.

 

 

Care to enlighten us on what you did, personally, to mark the anniversary last year? Or the year before that? Or the 80th anniversary? Or the 75th?

 

If it's up there in your consciousness alongside your memories of Lawrie Mac then I'd expect a pretty comprehensive response.

[Saint137]

Spoke to the old man about this today (ex-Merchant Navy). Surprised to hear that those of the crew who survived got a very hard time when they came home to Southampton, as they were living among families in the Chapel who'd lost their men. Accusations of being cowards and not doing their duty etc. Went on for decades afterwards, life-long family feuds.

[alpine_saint]

Spoke to the old man about this today (ex-Merchant Navy). Surprised to hear that those of the crew who survived got a very hard time when they came home to Southampton, as they were living among families in the Chapel who'd lost their men. Accusations of being cowards and not doing their duty etc. Went on for decades afterwards, life-long family feuds.

 

I am surprised too. But if you look at how many of the deck crew survived compared to the engineering crew, and even the victualling crew who would have been higher up in the hull than the engineering crew, it does look like a lot of the non-comissioned deck crew legged it.

 

But this is much easier to see in 2012 with the aid of coallated statistics than it was in 1912; perhaps it was simply jealousy.

[Noodles34]

Mate, I feel you should spend some time (genuinely) understanding clinical depression. It is a mental illness - the clue is in the term 'clinical'.

People of sound mind who can make rational judgements are NOT clinically depressed.

Gary Speed (if depressed, which we have to assume) was not able to make a judgement about those he was leaving behind. He was locked in a chamber of mental torture and decided that they only way he could escape was death.

It is tragedy. Selfish it isn't. What is selfish is the failure of so many people to engage with an understand mental illness.

 

He was able to make a judgement about football affairs on the BBC though...

[Saint137]

I am surprised too. But if you look at how many of the deck crew survived compared to the engineering crew, and even the victualling crew who would have been higher up in the hull than the engineering crew, it does look like a lot of the non-comissioned deck crew legged it.

 

But this is much easier to see in 2012 with the aid of coallated statistics than it was in 1912; perhaps it was simply jealousy.

 

Deck crew are more likely to survive - each lifeboat officially needed an officer and 2 able seamen to command it as per the regs

Similar regs still in place today, which may explain some of the accusations about Costa Concordia crew leaving before passengers.

2 engine rooms were flooded in the initial impact so the engineering crew were already up against it. Virtually all the engineering officers died (hence the memorial by the cenotaph)