Titanic Sinking 100th Anniversary at SMS

[alpine_saint]

Does anyone if the club are planning anything prior to the Reading Match on 14th April ?

 

I have just been reading up about the sinking, about entire families like the Goodwins and Rices with tiny children that were wiped out, and about how many of the crew living in Southampton died that night. Look at the list on Wikipedia and where the crew came from. It was a tragedy for the city.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_crew_members_on_board_RMS_Titanic

 

I know the club do All Saints Day, but I for one definitely think the club cannot let this match pass without a small symbol of remembrance.

Edited 10 January, 2012 by alpine_saint

[Mowgli]

A very sad occassion that has very little to with the club or with football. There will be plenty of other local tributes and events, well thought out and meaningful for people to engage with.

[alpine_saint]

A very sad occassion that has very little to with the club or with football. There will be plenty of other local tributes and events, well thought out and meaningful for people to engage with.

 

What a strange attitude. Is the club part of the city or not ?

[saint lard]

A relative of mine is on that list.....after some research my mother did on our family history, i found out that one of the trimmers was a not so distant relative,i was only looking at his documents a while back.

 

Nothing less than a tragedy.

[Toomer]

What a strange attitude. Is the club part of the city or not ?

 

For once I agree with you Alpine, to add to your point that the club being part of the city a lot of the crew that lost there lives would have come from the St Marys area of the town.

[alpine_saint]

A relative of mine is on that list.....after some research my mother did on our family history, i found out that one of the trimmers was a not so distant relative,i was only looking at his documents a while back.

 

Nothing less than a tragedy.

 

I lost 2 distant relatives amongst the crew, apparently. I know the name of one and found him on the list, but dont know the other.

[saint lard]

I lost 2 distant relatives amongst the crew, apparently. I know the name of one and found him on the list, but dont know the other.

 

 

Mr A J Eagle.......we could be relatives Alpine....

[alpine_saint]

Mr A J Eagle.......we could be relatives Alpine....

 

Panic over

 

I think my relative was Ford H. He was also a trimmer, so perhaps they at least knew each other.

[Cricketphilly]

A Diaper survived, unsure if we are related though.

[alpine_saint]

For once I agree with you Alpine, to add to your point that the club being part of the city a lot of the crew that lost there lives would have come from the St Marys area of the town.

 

Well, Wikipedia mentions that :

 

"According to the Hampshire Chronicle on 20 April 1912, almost 1,000 local families were directly affected. Almost every street in the Chapel district of the town lost more than one resident and over 500 households lost a member"

[saint lard]

Mr A j Eagle lived in 13 Lyon Street,St Marys.

[alpine_saint]

Will definitely take the kids to SeaCity when we are next over.

[alpine_saint]

Maybe we could get Kate Winslett to strip off so we can all draw her like Leo did - it happened in the film about the same time the match will kick off, and she's a Reading lass.

[dubai_phil]

Some may say that we've been doing our own memorial for the past month leading up to this...

 

As our promotion push has sunk without a trace.

 

 

But seriously, back on topic this is a little different from All Saints Day as it is a part of the history of the City, rather than ASD which celebrates the lives of those close to or who loved the Club who left us during the past year.

 

So perhaps the Club should at least lay a wreath somewhere, if not a formal "Remembrance Moment"?

[miserableoldgit]

I believe that around 550 people from Southampton died in the tragedy. 550 in one night. The club wants to be an integral part of the community so I for one do not see any harm if they mark the day in some small way.

[JRM]

It would be great if the club did do something, i'd like to see the city of southampton more prevalent in the memorial as well, Belfast have gone in for it in a big way (using public money) to regenerate a whole part of the city and re-name it the Titantic Quarter, what is planned for the city of Southampton? I didn't realise the Chapel area of town was so directly effected.

 

And to Alpine's suggested, Kate Winslet to strip off at the Reading game, that gets my vote!

[Golden Balls]

Would be really disappointing if the club just ignored this

[Marsdinho]

Ah, you may want to re-check your details. Although a lot of the crew were listed as being "from Southampton" this was usually just where they were living whilst they worked on the cruise ships. They were actually from all over the UK, loads of people came down from Merseyside to obtain work etc. I don't think that many were actually born in Southampton.

[alpine_saint]

Ah, you may want to re-check your details. Although a lot of the crew were listed as being "from Southampton" this was usually just where they were living whilst they worked on the cruise ships. They were actually from all over the UK, loads of people came down from Merseyside to obtain work etc. I don't think that many were actually born in Southampton.

 

You are probably right to some degree, I seem to recall the family of the distant relative that I know about was from Liverpool. But does it really matter ? The grief was felt within the city's boundaries, the fact that Liverpool and Belfast (and Cherbourg and Queenstown) also suffered does not detract from the sense of loss in Southampton and the apprpropriateness of commemorating

[miserableoldgit]

Ah, you may want to re-check your details. Although a lot of the crew were listed as being "from Southampton" this was usually just where they were living whilst they worked on the cruise ships. They were actually from all over the UK, loads of people came down from Merseyside to obtain work etc. I don't think that many were actually born in Southampton.

They were people that lived in the city (or town as it was then) and a lot were born in the city and had children at local schools.

[Deano6]

Has it really been 100 years? Feels like it was just 1997.

[Marsdinho]

They were people that lived in the city (or town as it was then) and a lot were born in the city and had children at local schools.

 

Jaidi lives in the city, and may well have kids at local schools, but i wouldn't describe him as being "from Southampton"

 

I'm not saying it wasn't a tragic event, but there seems to be a lot of people that think that a lot of the passengers and crew were Sotonians, they simply weren't. For that reason, I would have thought that any memorial should be held at one of the various sites around the city.

 

If i was a relative and wanted to mark the occasion, the local football club wouldn't be the first place I thought of.

[Mattio]

As long as our tribute isn't our form I don't mind what we do!

[Ken Tone]

What is so special about the Titanic that means we should mark it any more than any other tragedy? There have been many tragedies over the years with much more direct links to the people of Southampton than the Titanic. For example in the second world war, Southampton eventually lost 630 civilians dead, 898 seriously injured and nearly a thousand with slight wounds... all actual residents of the city unlike most of those lost on the Titanic.

 

The only thing that makes the Titanic tragedy different to the countless others that will have happened in and around the city in the last 100 years is the hype and 'romance' around the sinking of an 'unsinkable' ship on its maiden voyage, whilst carrying lots of glamorous and very rich people. (A much greater proportion of whom survived, in comparison to the poorer passengers btw). If it weren't for the 2 (3?) films that have been made about it, I suspect most of us wouldn't even been have heard of it. I wonder how many other ships have sunk over the years after leaving Southampton? Why not remember them all too?

[Noodles34]

getting to the point whereby every pre match entertainment will be a minutes silence or clapping for anything that has moved then died...

[Noodles34]

SeaFrance have gone bust, a minutes silenced perhaps?

[Golden Balls]

What is so special about the Titanic that means we should mark it any more than any other tragedy? There have been many tragedies over the years with much more direct links to the people of Southampton than the Titanic. For example in the second world war, Southampton eventually lost 630 civilians dead, 898 seriously injured and nearly a thousand with slight wounds... all actual residents of the city unlike most of those lost on the Titanic.

 

The only thing that makes the Titanic tragedy different to the countless others that will have happened in and around the city in the last 100 years is the hype and 'romance' around the sinking of an 'unsinkable' ship on its maiden voyage, whilst carrying lots of glamorous and very rich people. (A much greater proportion of whom survived, in comparison to the poorer passengers btw). If it weren't for the 2 (3?) films that have been made about it, I suspect most of us wouldn't even been have heard of it. I wonder how many other ships have sunk over the years after leaving Southampton? Why not remember them all too?

 

I think it has as much to do with the fact that it (Titanic) is pretty much what Southampton is best known for. Football clubs all over the country are the defining part of a town/city. This club in particular is making massive efforts to be part of the community. Therefore, I think the club should do something. It's not like they have to do something every year for it. But this is to mark 100 year since a tragic event happened that not only affected countless people within our boundries, but also has become part of what Southampton is. Sorry if you disagree.

 

EDIT: I see you also mentioned the 2nd world war. On the 70th annerversary of The Blitz, the club put up a plaque to remember those lost on the site of where the stadium now stands.

Edited 10 January, 2012 by Golden Balls

[Saint Mikey]

getting to the point whereby every pre match entertainment will be a minutes silence or clapping for anything that has moved then died...

 

SeaFrance have gone bust, a minutes silenced perhaps?

 

What is so special about the Titanic that means we should mark it any more than any other tragedy? There have been many tragedies over the years with much more direct links to the people of Southampton than the Titanic. For example in the second world war, Southampton eventually lost 630 civilians dead, 898 seriously injured and nearly a thousand with slight wounds... all actual residents of the city unlike most of those lost on the Titanic.

 

The only thing that makes the Titanic tragedy different to the countless others that will have happened in and around the city in the last 100 years is the hype and 'romance' around the sinking of an 'unsinkable' ship on its maiden voyage, whilst carrying lots of glamorous and very rich people. (A much greater proportion of whom survived, in comparison to the poorer passengers btw). If it weren't for the 2 (3?) films that have been made about it, I suspect most of us wouldn't even been have heard of it. I wonder how many other ships have sunk over the years after leaving Southampton? Why not remember them all too?

 

Exactly my thoughts. Jeez, this forum is bloody dramatic. You'd think the majority of posters were middle-aged women...

[Sour Mash]

What is so special about the Titanic that means we should mark it any more than any other tragedy? There have been many tragedies over the years with much more direct links to the people of Southampton than the Titanic. For example in the second world war, Southampton eventually lost 630 civilians dead, 898 seriously injured and nearly a thousand with slight wounds... all actual residents of the city unlike most of those lost on the Titanic.

 

The only thing that makes the Titanic tragedy different to the countless others that will have happened in and around the city in the last 100 years is the hype and 'romance' around the sinking of an 'unsinkable' ship on its maiden voyage, whilst carrying lots of glamorous and very rich people. (A much greater proportion of whom survived, in comparison to the poorer passengers btw). If it weren't for the 2 (3?) films that have been made about it, I suspect most of us wouldn't even been have heard of it. I wonder how many other ships have sunk over the years after leaving Southampton? Why not remember them all too?

This. Tragic things happen every day, people dying etc, I don't understand the constant need these days to force people into remembering things and have minutes silences etc. If something is important or of interest to them, they will remember it regardless.

[scotty]

getting to the point whereby every pre match entertainment will be a minutes silence or clapping for anything that has moved then died...

 

SeaFrance have gone bust, a minutes silenced perhaps?

 

Got to agree with noodles on this one. We could call it "Gary Speed Syndrome".

[Silvercherry Saint]

Yeah I think its a good way for the club to get involved with the city. As many of us on here had relatives. My Great Uncle was one of the stokers and unfortunately one of the first to die, trying to help the ship in the engine rooms.

[Viking Warrior]

Lots of folk died in the world war 2 bombing of Southampton as well.

 

Tragic as it was , Te Titanic and those who died will all be remembered in some capacity

[alpine_saint]

Wow, just when you think a certain topic will be uncontroversial.

 

550 of the city inhabitants died in the space of ca. 2 hours. Under tragic and gruesome circumstances, and partly due to incompetence, greed and sheer snobbery. The pain of these events was profoundly felt in the city, according to a couple of my elder relatives, just like the German bombs that killed a load of kids in the Art Gallery. It has nothing to do with Hollywood bastardisations of the events. There are real human stories behind this. How about the story of Alfred Peacock, Sotonian born and bred, dead at 7 months old ?? And I would have thought the fact that so many third-class passengers from the area died, put behind the first and second class and the Americans (who apparently barged past the Brits into the lifeboats) in terms of worthyness to save, is even more reason to commemorate ?

 

Southampton Football Club is a very important focal point of this citys life.

 

Wish I hadnt started this now, I am sure some of the dismissive responses are because I started it.

Edited 10 January, 2012 by alpine_saint

[alpine_saint]

SeaFrance have gone bust, a minutes silenced perhaps?

 

That analogy is a bloody disgrace.

[Torres]

Are we turning into Liverpool FC?

[alpine_saint]

Are we turning into Liverpool FC?

 

Guaranteed they will commemorate it somehow.

[Torres]

Definitely. The only question is whether or not they'll combine it with a minutes silence for the sad passing of lifelong Liverpool fan and Anfield Road resident Mrs O'Shea's Labrador.

[Noodles34]

That analogy is a bloody disgrace.

 

Its not because any same and rational person would see past it.

 

My point being, are we having a minutes (whatever is trendy) for Gary Ablett, who has as much in common with Saints as Gary Speed? Two great blokes probably, but one selfish man who left a wife and kids gets unprecedented media coverage and the whole footballing nation clapping him to heaven, and one who died of bad luck basically.

 

The point about The Titanic is where do you stop? There will be numerous opportunities within the city to recognise and remember those who died, anyone that can be bothered will probably be able to go to some church service or another. If you are not that bothered, then a minutes silence at SMS is inappropriate to you anyway.

[buctootim]

I agree with all the posters who resent the mawkish culture of commemorating every minor incident and celeb. The overraction to Gary Speed and Princess Diana was embarrassing imo. Alpine is right however that the Titantic was the biggest disaster to ever befall the city outside of the black death and world wars. It may not be the club's job to mark this but the City council should be doing far more imo.

Edited 10 January, 2012 by buctootim

[alpine_saint]

Its not because any same and rational person would see past it.

 

My point being, are we having a minutes (whatever is trendy) for Gary Ablett, who has as much in common with Saints as Gary Speed? Two great blokes probably, but one selfish man who left a wife and kids gets unprecedented media coverage and the whole footballing nation clapping him to heaven, and one who died of bad luck basically.

 

The point about The Titanic is where do you stop? There will be numerous opportunities within the city to recognise and remember those who died, anyone that can be bothered will probably be able to go to some church service or another. If you are not that bothered, then a minutes silence at SMS is inappropriate to you anyway.

 

Maybe the club officials view the club as a key part of City life and will want to do something. Will you resent or complain if they do ?

[alpine_saint]

Definitely. The only question is whether or not they'll combine it with a minutes silence for the sad passing of lifelong Liverpool fan and Anfield Road resident Mrs O'Shea's Labrador.

Comparing 550 residents of the city to a dog is frankly embarrasing and ridiculous.

[VectisSaint]

What is so special about the Titanic that means we should mark it any more than any other tragedy? There have been many tragedies over the years with much more direct links to the people of Southampton than the Titanic. For example in the second world war, Southampton eventually lost 630 civilians dead, 898 seriously injured and nearly a thousand with slight wounds... all actual residents of the city unlike most of those lost on the Titanic.

 

The only thing that makes the Titanic tragedy different to the countless others that will have happened in and around the city in the last 100 years is the hype and 'romance' around the sinking of an 'unsinkable' ship on its maiden voyage, whilst carrying lots of glamorous and very rich people. (A much greater proportion of whom survived, in comparison to the poorer passengers btw). If it weren't for the 2 (3?) films that have been made about it, I suspect most of us wouldn't even been have heard of it. I wonder how many other ships have sunk over the years after leaving Southampton? Why not remember them all too?

While not wishing to comment on whether this is something that SFC should commemorate, I think this posting shows a complete lack of understanding of such events, and the devastating impact this would have had on the community of Southampton. The loss of any lives in such tragic circumstance is terrible, but to dismiss it because it was carrying (a very small number of) rich and glamorous people and because most of the others were not actual residents of Southampton is just crass. A huge proportion of the victims were crew members, many of which were born and grew up in Southampton, and while many may well have moved to Southampton they were none the less still Southampton residents, just like many of those tragically killed in WW2 (why do you imply all of those killed in WW2 were born in Southamton?). The Titanic tragedy has nothing to do with the Hollywood renditions of the story, except that the reason such films were made was reflective of the huge tragedy. More than twice as many people died as a result of the Titanic IN ONE NIGHT, and in peacetime, as died in WW2 in Southampton. That number is mind boggling, and in no way is meant to diminish the memory of those who did perish in WW2, but some people clearly cannot conceive of the impact this must have had 100 years ago. The densely populated area around what is now SMS was hit vey hard and the impact of this event had long-lasting repercussions for the area for many years afterwards. It is wrong that it should be dismissed by people ignorant of the history and social history of their home. Should it be commerorated by SFC? I leave that to others to debate and decide.

[alpine_saint]

While not wishing to comment on whether this is something that SFC should commemorate, I think this posting shows a complete lack of understanding of such events, and the devastating impact this would have had on the community of Southampton. The loss of any lives in such tragic circumstance is terrible, but to dismiss it because it was carrying (a very small number of) rich and glamorous people and because most of the others were not actual residents of Southampton is just crass. A huge proportion of the victims were crew members, many of which were born and grew up in Southampton, and while many may well have moved to Southampton they were none the less still Southampton residents, just like many of those tragically killed in WW2 (why do you imply all of those killed in WW2 were born in Southamton?). The Titanic tragedy has nothing to do with the Hollywood renditions of the story, except that the reason such films were made was reflective of the huge tragedy. More than twice as many people died as a result of the Titanic IN ONE NIGHT, and in peacetime, as died in WW2 in Southampton. That number is mind boggling, and in no way is meant to diminish the memory of those who did perish in WW2, but some people clearly cannot conceive of the impact this must have had 100 years ago. The densely populated area around what is now SMS was hit vey hard and the impact of this event had long-lasting repercussions for the area for many years afterwards. It is wrong that it should be dismissed by people ignorant of the history and social history of their home. Should it be commerorated by SFC? I leave that to others to debate and decide.

 

Great post, but why dont you want to give your opinion ?

[FloridaMarlin]

My grandmother was a Titanic widow, having lost her husband, a crew member.

 

With all due respect Alps, I wouldn't necessarily be looking to the football club I support to mark the occasion.

 

I can understand and respect why you began this thread, and get what you are saying about Saints being an integral club part of the community, but I also don't think my deceased dad, uncles and aunts would have expected the club to mark the occasion.

 

Their main issue was that they felt the city didn't mark it properly or appropriately for many years. The officers and engineers had the grand memorial opposite the cenotaph.

 

The ordinary seamens' memorial was the drinking fountain that was on The Common for years until a campaign got it moved into Holyrood Church.

 

It will be interesting to see what Liverpool do, if anything. Despite the fact the Titanic never visited the port, and few crew members came from there, they claim the home of the White Star Line, and isn't the mast of one the Titanic's sister ships outside the Kop end?

 

They'll milk it for all its worth, no doubt.

[Son of Bob]

What is so special about the Titanic that means we should mark it any more than any other tragedy? There have been many tragedies over the years with much more direct links to the people of Southampton than the Titanic. For example in the second world war, Southampton eventually lost 630 civilians dead, 898 seriously injured and nearly a thousand with slight wounds... all actual residents of the city unlike most of those lost on the Titanic.

 

The only thing that makes the Titanic tragedy different to the countless others that will have happened in and around the city in the last 100 years is the hype and 'romance' around the sinking of an 'unsinkable' ship on its maiden voyage, whilst carrying lots of glamorous and very rich people. (A much greater proportion of whom survived, in comparison to the poorer passengers btw). If it weren't for the 2 (3?) films that have been made about it, I suspect most of us wouldn't even been have heard of it. I wonder how many other ships have sunk over the years after leaving Southampton? Why not remember them all too?

 

What a fantastic post...

[alpine_saint]

My grandmother was a Titanic widow, having lost her husband, a crew member.

 

With all due respect Alps, I wouldn't necessarily be looking to the football club I support to mark the occasion.

 

I can understand and respect why you began this thread, and get what you are saying about Saints being an integral club part of the community, but I also don't think my deceased dad, uncles and aunts would have expected the club to mark the occasion.

 

Their main issue was that they felt the city didn't mark it properly or appropriately for many years. The officers and engineers had the grand memorial opposite the cenotaph.

 

The ordinary seamens' memorial was the drinking fountain that was on The Common for years until a campaign got it moved into Holyrood Church. It will be interesting to see what Liverpool do, if anything. Despite the fact the Titanic never visited the port, and few crew members came from there, they claim the home of the White Star Line, and isn't the mast of one the Titanic's sister ships outside the Kop end?

 

They'll milk it for all its worth, no doubt.

 

Is there some sort of historical bad vibe or bad feeling in Southampton about the recognition of the Titanic disaster that I am unaware of ?

[Torres]

Comparing 550 residents of the city to a dog is frankly embarrasing and ridiculous.

 

Don't tell me:

 

http://help.liverpoolfc.tv/app/ask

[Noodles34]

Maybe the club officials view the club as a key part of City life and will want to do something. Will you resent or complain if they do ?

 

neither, if they want to do it, fine, it wont make a big difference either way. i just dont think it is something that needs to be campaigned for.

[Bearsy]

Comparing 550 residents of the city to a dog is frankly embarrasing and ridiculous.

 

Mrs. O'Shea really loved that dog, whereas no-one in the stadium ever even met the people who died in the Titanic.

[Silvercherry Saint]

Wow, just when you think a certain topic will be uncontroversial.

 

550 of the city inhabitants died in the space of ca. 2 hours. Under tragic and gruesome circumstances, and partly due to incompetence, greed and sheer snobbery. The pain of these events was profoundly felt in the city, according to a couple of my elder relatives, just like the German bombs that killed a load of kids in the Art Gallery. It has nothing to do with Hollywood bastardisations of the events. There are real human stories behind this. How about the story of Alfred Peacock, Sotonian born and bred, dead at 7 months old ?? And I would have thought the fact that so many third-class passengers from the area died, put behind the first and second class and the Americans (who apparently barged past the Brits into the lifeboats) in terms of worthyness to save, is even more reason to commemorate ?

 

Southampton Football Club is a very important focal point of this citys life.

 

Wish I hadnt started this now, I am sure some of the dismissive responses are because I started it.

 

 

I don't post on here much and don't always like or agree with a number of Alpines posts but I to think this should be some how remembered by the club, even if its a small gesture. Personally I feel because our cities massive maritime history. Yes, we were bombed very heavily during WW2 but I think this has been recognised in some capacity before.