Billy Sharp General Thread

[hypochondriac]

We do appear to have a surprising amount of bids turned down (unless it's just a load of lies printed in the papers which I don't really believe to be the case unlike some.)

[Foxstone]

I think one of Sharp's potential deal breakers is location. His entire professional career has based around the Yorkshire/Humberside area and if he moves to leicester he will not have to re-locate his home, whereas of course if he moves to us then he will have to.

 

Some people like where they live more than ambition perhaps, and it would have to be much more worth his while to come here than perhaps the Foxes..

[Winchester Red]

I remember Matt Elliott joining Leicester over us for exactly that reason.

 

His wife was from oop north and didn't want to come this far south. WAGS make the decisions for some players...

[corky morris]

IF (?) stories are true, Leicester are going to make him their best paid player. If, as I understand it, Beckford is on £35k pw then Sharp will get at least that.

IMHO we should pay no where near that for Sharp.

Leicester & West Ham are paying the biggest wages in the Championship. I have absolutely no desire to get involved in that kind of management.

It is one of the reasons I would go for LJ.

[corky morris]

I remember Matt Elliott joining Leicester over us for exactly that reason.

 

His wife was from oop north and didn't want to come this far south. WAGS make the decisions for some players...

 

Colin Todd chose Everton over us because he wife wanted to stay North - god I am old!!!

[RobM]

We do appear to have a surprising amount of bids turned down (unless it's just a load of lies printed in the papers which I don't really believe to be the case unlike some.)

 

I think there is an element of truth to these failed bid stories, but they are hyped up by papers and agents alike. It's always silly season and when you're at the top of the league and people think you've got a few quid in your pocket, you're bound to get more attention than most. It's good for agents to have their players associated with clubs like us, it's better still for them to be associated with us at a high valuation.

[hypochondriac]

I think there is an element of truth to these failed bid stories, but they are hyped up by papers and agents alike. It's always silly season and when you're at the top of the league and people think you've got a few quid in your pocket, you're bound to get more attention than most. It's good for agents to have their players associated with clubs like us, it's better still for them to be associated with us at a high valuation.

 

I'm not just talking about now. It happened in the summer too.

[Winchester Red]

If we're having more bids turned down than others are, I'd imagine it's because we're offering for players that other clubs want to keep rather than their cast-offs, or am I being naive?

[thorpie the sinner]

West Ham have had 7 rejections this window already, it's not just us!

[Winchester Red]

It could also be that we're having more bids turned down because we have money to spend and other don't.

 

I don't think having bids turned down is a bad thing.

 

I can't understand why people think other clubs should want to sell their best players, particularly at the beginning of the window. If they decide that a bid from us has made them realise they may want to sell, of course they're going to put it into the market to see if someone will pay more.... and that's another 2 weeks gone....

Edited 9 January, 2012 by Winchester Red
Bad grammer! don't want to be shot down by the grammer police!

[Foxstone]

I'm not just talking about now. It happened in the summer too.

 

Sharp and Rodriguez were the 2 confirmed bids and neither wanted to move from where they are - One being Burnley born and bred and the other preferring to stay based in South Yorkshire - Hardly a failure on our part was it, money does'nt always buy happiness..

 

I doubt whether Spurs or newcastle saw it as a failure on their part that MLT wanted to remain based down here and play for us did they..,.

[Gingeletiss]

If we're having more bids turned down than others are, I'd imagine it's because we're offering for players that other clubs want to keep rather than their cast-offs, or am I being naive?

 

Naive, no, but Hypo will soon convince you otherwise. His version of things is always right, based on imaginary 'fact', I liken it to Hypo thetical.

[James]

According to my Donny supporting friend Sharp was at training with them this morning - so perhaps the Foxes haven't got their man?

[hypochondriac]

If we're having more bids turned down than others are, I'd imagine it's because we're offering for players that other clubs want to keep rather than their cast-offs, or am I being naive?

 

Well yes but the problem occurs if our targets are unrealistic (or if we won't pay what the other clubs want.) top players are going to cost money and in January they will cost even more. I hope we are flexible in our negotiations to give us the best chance of acquiring any of our targets.

[hypochondriac]

Sharp and Rodriguez were the 2 confirmed bids and neither wanted to move from where they are - One being Burnley born and bred and the other preferring to stay based in South Yorkshire - Hardly a failure on our part was it, money does'nt always buy happiness..

 

I doubt whether Spurs or newcastle saw it as a failure on their part that MLT wanted to remain based down here and play for us did they..,.

 

The jemal deal reportedly fell through as did gorkss (although the jos loan negated these pretty much). So far reportedly commons and hooper so far in this window.

 

There may be nothing in it and just paper speculation but it's worth discussing, especially if we fail to get any of our targets in (lee excepted although I have already voiced my reservations about him in the short term).

[Foxstone]

The jemal deal reportedly fell through as did gorkss (although the jos loan negated these pretty much). So far reportedly commons and hooper so far in this window.

 

There may be nothing in it and just paper speculation but it's worth discussing, especially if we fail to get any of our targets in (lee excepted although I have already voiced my reservations about him in the short term).

 

Flexible = Fine and I'm sure we are.

 

Allowing ourselves no be mugged = No and I'm sure we are'nt

[Winchester Red]

Well yes but the problem occurs if our targets are unrealistic (or if we won't pay what the other clubs want.) top players are going to cost money and in January they will cost even more. I hope we are flexible in our negotiations to give us the best chance of acquiring any of our targets.

 

It certainly is a very difficult balancing act for any Chairman to give it the best possible shot at signing the best possible players, without putting the club at risk... Nobody would thank him if we were back in Admin after a couple of failed attempts to get back into the PL

 

Maybe we should be following our Fishy Friends quality over quantity approach........

 

(Don't for one minute take that suggestion seriously!)

[thorpie the sinner]

Billy training with #drfc today but talks continuing with #lcfc via agent. Foxes have striker injury crisis, keen to sign him before Sat.

[thorpie the sinner]

At least we can cross this one off before sat one way or the other!!

[Foxstone]

The jemal deal reportedly fell through as did gorkss (although the jos loan negated these pretty much). So far reportedly commons and hooper so far in this window.

 

There may be nothing in it and just paper speculation but it's worth discussing, especially if we fail to get any of our targets in (lee excepted although I have already voiced my reservations about him in the short term).

 

Jemal allegedly introduced the requirement of a "bung for his first club" at the last minute - I'm glad NC told him to stuff that - We are not PFC.

 

I was never convinced we were wholly in for Gorkss anyway, We could have snapped him easily if we really wanted using Puncheon as a lever.

[Winchester Red]

..... keen to sign him before Sat.

 

Expect his agent thinks that'll make it worth another couple of thousand a week then

 

[hypochondriac]

Flexible = Fine and I'm sure we are.

 

Allowing ourselves no be mugged = No and I'm sure we are'nt

 

We may well be. It's difficult to judge until the end of the window but in the summer it did appear that we couldn't secure an attacking target and ultimately that has cost us some points this last month. It would be a real shame if for whatever reason we can't secure our targets again (if rumours are to be believed we are still looking for another attacker- quite right too!) and we miss out on promotion as a consequence.

 

I have a feeling that of we fail to strengthen and don't go up, many posters will just be content with a decent season whereas I'll be bitterly disappointed that we had such a great opportunity and blew it after a fantastic start. Does that make me negative? I don't think so I just think the last month has shown our weaknesses and with a few key signings we can get back on track and pull off a great achievement.

[hypochondriac]

Jemal allegedly introduced the requirement of a "bung for his first club" at the last minute - I'm glad NC told him to stuff that - We are not PFC.

 

I was never convinced we were wholly in for Gorkss anyway, We could have snapped him easily if we really wanted using Puncheon as a lever.

 

I wasn't looking at individual cases, just making a comment that in general we have had an awful lot of reported bids then leadin to unsuccessful captures.

[saint1977]

The issue with Sharp is much more likely to be due to geography rather than money so not Saints fault IMO. What I don't understand is why the club haven't got a striker in on loan though until we can agree a permanent deal for another striker (and I'm not talking about Lee who won't really be a core part of the side until next season if we're being realistic), such as Ravel Morrison at Man U. Simon Cox would have been a good option but sadly his weekend hat-trick probably put paid to that.

[Window Cleaner]

The issue with Sharp is much more likely to be due to geography rather than money so not Saints fault IMO. What I don't understand is why the club haven't got a striker in on loan though until we can agree a permanent deal for another striker (and I'm not talking about Lee who won't really be a core part of the side until next season if we're being realistic), such as Ravel Morrison at Man U. Simon Cox would have been a good option but sadly his weekend hat-trick probably put paid to that.

 

Man U only lend players to specific clubs,anyway is R Morrison allowed to go very far away from Manchester for the time being ??

[Winchester Red]

Many clubs have adopted the attitude that if we sign just one more player it may make the difference between getting promoted or not - look at West Ham. Big Sam always wants just one more, despite having 40-odd already. (It doesn't stop them looking cr*p in my view either)

 

No one disputes the need for another forward. The question is can we get one that fits into the group and the pay structure without breaking the bank

[Winchester Red]

Ravel Morrison is big big trouble - I wouldn't want him anywhere near our happy bus.

 

United would have kicked him into touch by now if they could be sure one of the other big clubs wouldn't pick the idiot up and turn him around, and it come back to haunt them.

[saint1977]

Man U only lend players to specific clubs,anyway is R Morrison allowed to go very far away from Manchester for the time being ??

 

That was one example and Ferguson does tend to loan players to northern clubs and wherever Fergie Jnr is managing but Adkins has a 'rising star' reputation so it might be worth a phone call. Arsenal might be another source of a young striker but we don't want to get onto the subject of Luke Shaw. Or Harry Kane at Spurs, Redknapp likes Nigel if not the club. My guess is that Adkins actually wants somebody permanently but as we know such transfers don't happen overnight and Rickie has a two game league ban starting Saturday, Guly seems unlikely to be fit and Connolly is only really a sub these days.

[Wes Tender]

Well yes but the problem occurs if our targets are unrealistic (or if we won't pay what the other clubs want.) top players are going to cost money and in January they will cost even more. I hope we are flexible in our negotiations to give us the best chance of acquiring any of our targets.

 

Do you have just one shred of evidence that we are incapable of flexibility in our negotiations with other clubs? Any evidence too that our expectations are unrealistic? If we refuse to pay what other clubs want, then that is a normal commercial situation where the seller wants more than a buyer is prepared to pay. If we negotiate and can't reach a compromise figure, then we will withdraw. Undoubtedly we will reason that we could get better value elsewhere. And why do players cost more in January? Surely if they can be bought in January, it is because they might be surplus to requirements in their current team, or that they cannot be afforded by that team if they are in financial difficulties.

 

The nature of this industry is that agents tend to suggest interest by as many clubs as possible, because they wish to give the impression that their commodity, the player, is in great demand. Likewise, this makes good copy for the newspapers on slow news days. We could deny those stories, but why should we? It is in our interests to have other clubs in our division believe that we are after a player that they might be interested in. Firstly because the price will be higher if it is believed that several clubs are after him and secondly it does our profile no harm either, even if we have no inclination to pursue the player rumoured to interest us.

 

The only problem with it, is that certain posters on here will use it as an excuse to have a bash at our board for failing to sign players.

 

hypochondriac: (lee excepted although I have already voiced my reservations about him in the short term).

 

Yes, we acknowledge that you have your reservations about him even before he has kicked a ball in a league match yet. We also note that you also had the same reservations about Hooiveld, based on what Celtic's fans said.

[Dibden Purlieu Saint]

Only repeating what I read somewhere in the media last week.

 

I get accused of making my opinion sound like fact, so whats your source of reference for this statement of fact ?

 

The Blackppol chairman. When the fans were saying they spent next to nothing last year he said that the Premier League was only worth about £30m to small promoted clubs, only for wage increases to take up a third.

[Winchester Red]

I have lots of evidence of our inflexibility in transfer dealings!!!

 

......but only when we're selling. If you want AOC it's £12m take it or leave it. Inflexibility isn't always always a bad thing

 

[Webby]

It could also be that we're having more bids turned down because we have money to spend and other don't.

 

I don't think having bids turned down is a bad thing.

 

I can't understand why people think other clubs should want to sell their best players, particularly at the beginning of the window. If they decide that a bid from us has made them realise they may want to sell, of course they're going to put it into the market to see if someone will pay more.... and that's another 2 weeks gone....

Re your edit: it's grammar, not grammer

[Winchester Red]

Re your edit: it's grammar, not grammer

 

Wondered why is was still getting that squiggly thing under the word

[shurlock]

Leicester could wrap Sharp up by the weekend, if not by wednesday:

 

https://twitter.com/#!/paulgoodwinDFP

http://twitter.com/#!/StringerSport

 

As well being BBC leicester's equivalent of adam blackmore, stringer was a div on the apprentice a few years ago.

[Doctoroncall]

We may well be. It's difficult to judge until the end of the window but in the summer it did appear that we couldn't secure an attacking target and ultimately that has cost us some points this last month. It would be a real shame if for whatever reason we can't secure our targets again (if rumours are to be believed we are still looking for another attacker- quite right too!) and we miss out on promotion as a consequence.

 

I have a feeling that of we fail to strengthen and don't go up, many posters will just be content with a decent season whereas I'll be bitterly disappointed that we had such a great opportunity and blew it after a fantastic start.

 

I don't really understand the association on not getting players in equates to loss of points. there have been teams that have got players in but have not gained points (boro with Strachan for instance). The team has on the whole played well in the games so far this season and have kept to the system Adkins has worked with them otherwise we wouldn't be top. Players coming in have to be suitable and fit into a budget, that is something we just don't know about.

 

IF we miss out on promotion there will be plenty of disappointed fans.

[Chez]

Well yes but the problem occurs if our targets are unrealistic (or if we won't pay what the other clubs want.) top players are going to cost money and in January they will cost even more. I hope we are flexible in our negotiations to give us the best chance of acquiring any of our targets.

 

you hope we are willing to pay more than the going rate to get our man you mean?

[Chez]

I don't really understand the association on not getting players in equates to loss of points. there have been teams that have got players in but have not gained points (boro with Strachan for instance). The team has on the whole played well in the games so far this season and have kept to the system Adkins has worked with them otherwise we wouldn't be top. Players coming in have to be suitable and fit into a budget, that is something we just don't know about.

 

Tino Asprilla is our man

[hypochondriac]

Ffs wes tender why do you insist on twisting my words to suit your agenda? At no point was I writing off lee before a ball was kicked. What I said was that it was more likely that a player who is currently in form in the npc will be able to hit the ground running with us. You know I didn't write him off. Why do people on this forum do this?

[hypochondriac]

I don't really understand the association on not getting players in equates to loss of points. there have been teams that have got players in but have not gained points (boro with Strachan for instance). The team has on the whole played well in the games so far this season and have kept to the system Adkins has worked with them otherwise we wouldn't be top. Players coming in have to be suitable and fit into a budget, that is something we just don't know about.

 

IF we miss out on promotion there will be plenty of disappointed fans.

 

Because IMO our loss of form can be attributed to among other things tiredness, an over reliance on Lambert and the lack of an option to change things on the bench.

[hypochondriac]

you hope we are willing to pay more than the going rate to get our man you mean?

 

I hope that if it were necessary we would be prepared to pay a couple of thousand extra a week to get our man, considering the riches on offer in the premiership. It's not about going mental like Leicester, but IMO a modest gamble on proven quality that doesn't break the bank should be an option that is explored if we are not getting the targets we are currently looking for on the wages and fees we are offering (that's IF).

[Chez]

I hope that if it were necessary we would be prepared to pay a couple of thousand extra a week to get our man, considering the riches on offer in the premiership. It's not about going mental like Leicester, but IMO a modest gamble on proven quality that doesn't break the bank should be an option that is explored if we are not getting the targets we are currently looking for on the wages and fees we are offering (that's IF).

 

maybe all these `proven quality players' your talking about are not after a few grand more, but actually want £10k more a week and much more besides? After going into admin five minutes ago I don't ever want to see us spend more than we have gambling on promotion. Every time we are knocked back it actually installs confidence that the current regime are not going to **** us.

 

Let me put it this way. What if we signed Sharp, paid him £28k a week and then he performed like he did at Sheffield - woeful - we didn't arrest our slide and missed out on promotion. We're then stuck with Sharp (who no one fancies) for another 3 years and Cortese has no choice but to increase ticket price by 40% again just to cover his wages. How many would be on here saying it was worth the gamble?

[Give it to Ron]

We're then stuck with Sharp (who no one fancies) for another 3 years and Cortese has no choice but to increase ticket price by 40% again just to cover his wages. How many would be on here saying it was worth the gamble?

 

All those that don't go and have to pay the 40% increase??

 

Good points in your post.

[hypochondriac]

You could do a what if scenario for any situation. You have to look at each option, decide what gives us the best chance of success and then look at demands etc hopefully being prepared to pay a bit extra if necessary but not excessive (were there not reports on here that sharp would have accepted 20k?).

 

The likes of lukas I highly doubt would need much negotiation to agree to come here. Do I want lukas over other options? Not especially although I think he would offer us another option and a fresh pair of legs when necessary. If we go chasing strikers but are not able to get them over the line then I would prefer lukas in that scenario than the alternative.

 

Of course all this could become irrelevant if we do manage to secure a target and possibly we should wait for this discussion until the window closes or even the end of the season. I suppose I'm doing a what if scenario of my own!

[Dig Dig]

maybe all these `proven quality players' your talking about are not after a few grand more, but actually want £10k more a week and much more besides? After going into admin five minutes ago I don't ever want to see us spend more than we have gambling on promotion. Every time we are knocked back it actually installs confidence that the current regime are not going to **** us.

 

Let me put it this way. What if we signed Sharp, paid him £28k a week and then he performed like he did at Sheffield - woeful - we didn't arrest our slide and missed out on promotion. We're then stuck with Sharp (who no one fancies) for another 3 years and Cortese has no choice but to increase ticket price by 40% again just to cover his wages. How many would be on here saying it was worth the gamble?

 

Exactly this. The whole "we'd be better off had we signed X Y or Z in the summer" theory is just pie in the sky none sense really. Another consideration is this... Has Sharp or Maynard or whoever else done enough to merit walking straight into the squad after breaking the wage structure and being top earner over those who have got us to where we are in the first place? I'm sure this is a big consideration for the management when looking at a transfer.

[John B]

Apparently Lucas is on £9k at Coventry £10K next year but is off to Middlesboro

[hypochondriac]

Exactly this. The whole "we'd be better off had we signed X Y or Z in the summer" theory is just pie in the sky none sense really. Another consideration is this... Has Sharp or Maynard or whoever else done enough to merit walking straight into the squad after breaking the wage structure and being top earner over those who have got us to where we are in the first place? I'm sure this is a big consideration for the management when looking at a transfer.

 

I guess that depends on what you think the relegation form of the last month has been down to and if you think having another striker would have made a difference to it.

[The Kraken]

maybe all these `proven quality players' your talking about are not after a few grand more, but actually want £10k more a week and much more besides? After going into admin five minutes ago I don't ever want to see us spend more than we have gambling on promotion. Every time we are knocked back it actually installs confidence that the current regime are not going to **** us.

 

Let me put it this way. What if we signed Sharp, paid him £28k a week and then he performed like he did at Sheffield - woeful - we didn't arrest our slide and missed out on promotion. We're then stuck with Sharp (who no one fancies) for another 3 years and Cortese has no choice but to increase ticket price by 40% again just to cover his wages. How many would be on here saying it was worth the gamble?

 

Exactly this.

 

There seems to be a trend by some here to assume that the only thing standing in our way of promotion is a top quality striker signing. And therefore that we should be willing to lash out on him. This is such a ridiculously simplified way of looking at it. The idea that its "just a few thousand more" per week is not right; its the total sum of his wages per week that is extra; so if rumours are true, £35K per week for Sharp. You then have to take into account any players who might have clauses in their contracts that make them the higher wage earners at the club; a very common thing for football clubs. So you could just as likely be adding many extra thousands per week onto the wage bill, just by signing one player.

 

Imagining that its "just a few extra thousand per week" is as naive as assuming that one decent signing is all we need to wrap up promotion for this season, and that if we don't do it we are surely destined for failure.

[alpine_saint]

Exactly this.

 

There seems to be a trend by some here to assume that the only thing standing in our way of promotion is a top quality striker signing. And therefore that we should be willing to lash out on him. This is such a ridiculously simplified way of looking at it. The idea that its "just a few thousand more" per week is not right; its the total sum of his wages per week that is extra; so if rumours are true, £35K per week for Sharp. You then have to take into account any players who might have clauses in their contracts that make them the higher wage earners at the club; a very common thing for football clubs. So you could just as likely be adding many extra thousands per week onto the wage bill, just by signing one player.

 

Imagining that its "just a few extra thousand per week" is as naive as assuming that one decent signing is all we need to wrap up promotion for this season, and that if we don't do it we are surely destined for failure.

 

That is completely untrue.

 

If NC has accepted the need for an extra player, perhaps even a striker, and has started negotiations with someone, than he has already budgeted for a least part of that increase.

 

Besides, I also think a striker is not a magic wand. Rickie has done a pretty good job of staying fit or bouncing back (I do wonder how his suspension will go - will he lose his edge or will he be so sharp and envigorated that no-one will stop him ?). I am much more concerned about what I view as a somewhat passive/submissive midfield without Chaplow.

[Doctoroncall]

Because IMO our loss of form can be attributed to among other things tiredness, an over reliance on Lambert and the lack of an option to change things on the bench.

 

So really that is looking at the balance of the squad and how to utilise it best at any given time. But also there is a responsibility of bringing on the youngsters so we are not reliant on purchasing 'ready made' but will they be suitable players.

 

Personally I think we have missed Chaplow industry and drive on the right and Lallana has been off form (injury?). Plus playing Bristol, a form team at the time didn't help.

[hypochondriac]

Exactly this.

 

There seems to be a trend by some here to assume that the only thing standing in our way of promotion is a top quality striker signing. And therefore that we should be willing to lash out on him. This is such a ridiculously simplified way of looking at it. The idea that its "just a few thousand more" per week is not right; its the total sum of his wages per week that is extra; so if rumours are true, £35K per week for Sharp. You then have to take into account any players who might have clauses in their contracts that make them the higher wage earners at the club; a very common thing for football clubs. So you could just as likely be adding many extra thousands per week onto the wage bill, just by signing one player.

 

Imagining that its "just a few extra thousand per week" is as naive as assuming that one decent signing is all we need to wrap up promotion for this season, and that if we don't do it we are surely destined for failure.

 

But I didn't say it's just a few thousand extra a week, neither did I say that one player signing would guarantee success or failure- I don't think anyone did. I just think that we have quite a large number of people who have turned us down or whatever reason (or reportedly we have anyway).

 

What I hope we don't do is have a valuation of a player and then refuse to budge on that valuation if it is a small amount extra that would secure them, particularly in January when players rarely go for their true value. Should there be clauses in contracts then that is a separate factor. IF it is the case that a small amount extra could secure us a player of real quality then that COULD mean the difference between promotion or the playoffs. I hope that we have the experience in the transfer market to be able to bring in the quality required without bankrupting the club.