alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Who on earth thinks we have a tight wage structure? Show me 1 person on here who thinks we're being frugal in terms of wages, and I'll show you an idiot. Well, I havent said it. But there are few posts on this thread that allude to it. I have no idea what our wage strucutre looks like, which is why I just think we should get the players that can fulfill the roles we need with little consideration of their cost. After all, promotion is supposed to be worth 90million to a club, and not even Billy Sharp would end up costing us that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Highly likely,all those who think we pay salaries of 20K + basic are totally deluded.Players at SFC probably get a good screw when we're winning and they're getting good bonuses but 20K basic...doubt if anyone gets anywhere near that. Who on earth thinks we have a tight wage structure? Show me 1 person on here who thinks we're being frugal in terms of wages, and I'll show you an idiot.is £20k a week being frugal or deluded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Well, I havent said it. But there are few posts on this thread that allude to it. I have no idea what our wage strucutre looks like, which is why I just think we should get the players that can fulfill the roles we need with little consideration of their cost. After all, promotion is supposed to be worth 90million to a club, and not even Billy Sharp would end up costing us that. A certain George Burley took that approach and rightly got castigated for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibden Purlieu Saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Well, I havent said it. But there are few posts on this thread that allude to it. I have no idea what our wage strucutre looks like, which is why I just think we should get the players that can fulfill the roles we need with little consideration of their cost. After all, promotion is supposed to be worth 90million to a club, and not even Billy Sharp would end up costing us that. This seems to go up everytime it's quoted. And to be fair, it isn't, nowhere near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 A certain George Burley took that approach and rightly got castigated for it. We had different ownership considerations then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 This seems to go up everytime it's quoted. And to be fair, it isn't, nowhere near. Only repeating what I read somewhere in the media last week. I get accused of making my opinion sound like fact, so whats your source of reference for this statement of fact ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 We had different ownership considerations then. Irrelevant. Throwing money at the problem is no guarantee of anything; as Leicester are proving. Our whole club is built on a "together as one" ethos. I much prefer Adkins' approach of squad harmony and integration, rather than a knee jerk approach to something/someone who may or may not be the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggers Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Really? Because of money or he didn't want to relocate? Neither, he would of happily come down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Well, I havent said it. But there are few posts on this thread that allude to it. I have no idea what our wage strucutre looks like, which is why I just think we should get the players that can fulfill the roles we need with little consideration of their cost. After all, promotion is supposed to be worth 90million to a club, and not even Billy Sharp would end up costing us that. Ahh I see. Good idea. Yes. Well done. Why didn't Cortese thing of that. Let's get in Torres then... oh yeah, I forgot, we're in the Championship and he is no good at our level (sadly of course or at any other level these days) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Irrelevant. Throwing money at the problem is no guarantee of anything; as Leicester are proving. Our whole club is built on a "together as one" ethos. I much prefer Adkins' approach of squad harmony and integration, rather than a knee jerk approach to something/someone who may or may not be the answer. Its not irrelevant. Leicester are not succeeding because they are trying to buy promotion by throwing money at the situation and buying anything decent that moves. Completely different from identifying who your team really needs as part of your squad development plan and being willing to break the bank a bit to fit that missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Ahh I see. Good idea. Yes. Well done. Why didn't Cortese thing of that. Let's get in Torres then... oh yeah, I forgot, we're in the Championship and he is no good at our level (sadly of course or at any other level these days) Then of course comes the silly extreme response... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Neither, he would of happily come down here. So what happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latter day saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Then of course comes the silly extreme response... PMSL ! thats a classic coming from you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Its not irrelevant. Leicester are not succeeding because they are trying to buy promotion by throwing money at the situation and buying anything decent that moves. Completely different from identifying who your team needs and being willing to break the bank a bit to fit that missing piece of the jigsaw puzzle. I think it is irrelevant. There's no guarantee that Billy Sharp is this "missing piece" of the jigsaw. He's scored 5 less goals this term than our first choice striker, and 1 goal more than our second striker Guly. We have the top scorer in the division plus the 5th highest scorer in the division already on our books. Plus a free scoring midfielder in Lallana who pretty much every side in the division would welcome with open arms into their team. I see no evidence that the only barrier between us and promotion is the recruit of a 30K striker; I just his his non-recruit as an excuse to criticise the manager for a run of current poor form. A poor run of form with the same set of players that previously set the division alight. Transfers may turn that around, they may not, what's much more important to me is that Adkins gets the right man, not just the expensive available one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 PMSL ! thats a classic coming from you ! Doesnt mean others are incapable of stupid hysterical posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diggers Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 So what happened? To be honest I don't know exactly and to be fair I'm not sure of he exact detail, i just heard a couple of weeks ago that it wasn't looking good, any more than that and I don't think I'd be posting it on an internet forum. Happy to post general stuff but its not fair to go into detail, even if I knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 I think it is irrelevant. There's no guarantee that Billy Sharp is this "missing piece" of the jigsaw. He's scored 5 less goals this term than our first choice striker, and 1 goal more than our second striker Guly. We have the top scorer in the division plus the 5th highest scorer in the division already on our books. Plus a free scoring midfielder in Lallana who pretty much every side in the division would welcome with open arms into their team. I see no evidence that the only barrier between us and promotion is the recruit of a 30K striker; I just his his non-recruit as an excuse to criticise the manager for a run of current poor form. A poor run of form with the same set of players that previously set the division alight. Transfers may turn that around, they may not, what's much more important to me is that Adkins gets the right man, not just the expensive available one. What if NA thinks he is the right man - do you think NC should break the wage structure a bit ? Sorry, you are superimposing your opinion of Sharp onto what I thought was a general discussion of transfer policy. The argument being made about the need for a striker (by more than just me) is the injury to Barnard, the unreliability of Connolly, the ineffectiveness of Forte and a "what if" about Lamberts availability (now a reality) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 What if NA thinks he is the right man - do you think NC should break the wage structure a bit ? Sorry, you are superimposing your opinion of Sharp onto what I thought was a general discussion of transfer policy. My opinion of Billy Sharp is that he's an excellent player. Again, entirely irrelevant to my point. If Adkins believes that breaking the wage structure for one player would be detrimental to the whole squad then he's right not to do it. Particularly if it can't be justified financially. Pompey had to same idea of spend spend spend in pursuit of success and we know what happened there. So no, I don't believe we should break the wage structure; as I said, throwing money at the situation is not the definitive answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 My opinion of Billy Sharp is that he's an excellent player. Again, entirely irrelevant to my point. If Adkins believes that breaking the wage structure for one player would be detrimental to the whole squad then he's right not to do it. Particularly if it can't be justified financially. Pompey had to same idea of spend spend spend in pursuit of success and we know what happened there. So no, I don't believe we should break the wage structure; as I said, throwing money at the situation is not the definitive answer. You've just turned the discussion completely on its head there. Doesnt seem much point continuing with this if you shift the goal points and then dismiss my responses as irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Irrelevant. Throwing money at the problem is no guarantee of anything; as Leicester are proving. And I get accused annoying people with opinion stated as fact... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 You've just turned the discussion completely on its head there. Doesnt seem much point continuing with this if you shift the goal points and then dismiss my responses as irrelevant. What on earth are you on about? I just answered your direct question. Dear God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 And I get accused annoying people with opinion stated as fact... So throwing money at a football club is a guarantee of success then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 What on earth are you on about? I just answered your direct question. Dear God. No you didnt. What if NA thinks he is the right man - do you think NC should break the wage structure a bit ? This automatically assumed NA was willing to do the same, FFS. I was asking your opinion, you blathered on about NA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 So throwing money at a football club is a guarantee of success then? Nope, but its not a guarantee of failure either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 To be honest I don't know exactly and to be fair I'm not sure of he exact detail, i just heard a couple of weeks ago that it wasn't looking good, any more than that and I don't think I'd be posting it on an internet forum. Happy to post general stuff but its not fair to go into detail, even if I knew. Fair enough, cheers for posting what you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 And I get accused annoying people with opinion stated as fact... Throwing money at the problem always solves it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 No you didnt. What if NA thinks he is the right man - do you think NC should break the wage structure a bit ? This automatically assumed NA was willing to do the same, FFS. I was asking your opinion, you blathered on about NA. I've honestly got no idea what you're on about now. I think I've wasted enough time for one night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 I've honestly got no idea what you're on about now. I think I've wasted enough time for one night. Oh, whatever. You clearly werent willing to discuss this sensibly, with your "Irrelevant, Irrelevant" comments like some Hollywood sci-fi B-movie mental computer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 So, for any sensible person out there. If NA identifies a player, feels he is the missing link and wants him quite badly, should NC feel free and be willing to throw the wage structure out of kilter by a few thousand quid a week extra ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Oh, whatever. You clearly werent willing to discuss this sensibly, with your "Irrelevant, Irrelevant" comments like some Hollywood sci-fi B-movie mental computer. And more insults. Well done you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 And more insults. Well done you. And of course your sneering patronising tone wasnt insulting at all.. want to have another go at answering a basic question ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 And of course your sneering patronising tone wasnt insulting at all.. want to have another go at answering a basic question ??? I can only repeat my earlier answer. Here you go: So no, I don't believe we should break the wage structure; as I said, throwing money at the situation is not the definitive answer. I thought that was pretty cut and dried myself. You can disagree with the substance of it all you like, but tryinhg to say I didn't answer the question is just daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 I can only repeat my earlier answer. Here you go: I thought that was pretty cut and dried myself. You can disagree with the substance of it all you like, but tryinhg to say I didn't answer the question is just daft. So you would turn your back on the chance of signing the identified game-changer who could rescue our flagging promotion campaign for the sake of a few grand per week ? And you wouldnt support NA and NCs decision to do so if they so decided ? I disagree with you completely and whole heartedly. Not if it means waiting another season for promotion (maybe..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 So, for any sensible person out there. If NA identifies a player, feels he is the missing link and wants him quite badly, should NC feel free and be willing to throw the wage structure out of kilter by a few thousand quid a week extra ??? I commented on something similar in another thread, and it's an interesting situation we're in at the moment. We have operated a policy up until now whereby we only pay what we feel a player is worth and only offer them wages that we feel they're worth, which is fine and an incredibly sensible way to run a football club. The problem in January is that players are never priced at their true worth, a couple of extra million is added on and their wage demands increase along with it. Clubs are half way through he season and we're targeting their best players, they're not going to let them go for anything less than an overinflated fee - unless the club is in serious financial trouble. If we are really going to go for it, as I felt from Nigels comments yesterday, then we may need to just loosen the strings slightly and pay a little more for a player that we feel can make a huge difference. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 So you would turn your back on the chance of signing the identified game-changer who could rescue our flagging promotion campaign for the sake of a few grand per week ? I disagree with you completely and whole heartedly. Not if it means waiting another season for promotion (maybe..) You're assuming again that the difference between promotion and not is Billy Sharp. We're going round in circles so I won't bother regurgitating what I've already said earlier on the subject, but I stand by it. And if Adkins chose not to captiluate to Sharp's financial demands, and if he didn't quite see it that way (as the club would have us believe) then I have no compunction about standing by the manager in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 I commented on something similar in another thread, and it's an interesting situation we're in at the moment. We have operated a policy up until now whereby we only pay what we feel a player is worth and only offer them wages that we feel they're worth, which is fine and an incredibly sensible way to run a football club. The problem in January is that players are never priced at their true worth, a couple of extra million is added on and their wage demands increase along with it. Clubs are half way through he season and we're targeting their best players, they're not going to let them go for anything less than an overinflated fee - unless the club is in serious financial trouble. If we are really going to go for it, as I felt from Nigels comments yesterday, then we may need to just loosen the strings slightly and pay a little more for a player that we feel can make a huge difference. It'll be interesting to see how it pans out. Indeed. Pleased someone else sees that going that extra mile might make all the difference. Anything else feels like harking back to Rupert Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 You're assuming again that the difference between promotion and not is Billy Sharp. We're going round in circles so I won't bother regurgitating what I've already said earlier on the subject, but I stand by it. And if Adkins chose not to captiluate to Sharp's financial demands, and if he didn't quite see it that way (as the club would have us believe) then I have no compunction about standing by the manager in that regard. Where have i said that ? I have said the difference between and promotion and not is NAs ability to being in who HE wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kraken Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Where have i said that ? I have said the difference between and promotion and not is NAs ability to being in who HE wants. Well of course it is, it always has been; but it also has to be on the right terms. The information given out by the club was that Sharp was very much a target, but not enough of a target to justify the significant expense on him. The same with Jay Rodriguez; it was investigated and deemed not worth it. I don't really know where this conversation is going so I'm off now. I hope we do sign some players that Adkins has indentified as what he needs, and within our price/wage range. But I'm also glad that we have a club that won't be held to ransom over players financial demands, as that's a very, very rocky road to start treading and given our history down that road, one that we should be extremely careful to tread again. And that's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 8 January, 2012 Share Posted 8 January, 2012 Indeed. Pleased someone else sees that going that extra mile might make all the difference. Anything else feels like harking back to Rupert Lowe. If we do stick with the ''only pay what we feel he's worth'' policy then I feel we'll hit a brick wall this month, not so much in the summer...but January is a nasty time to buy players, especially cheaply. Up until now we haven't had to break records to get the players we want. We were lucky with Fonte as Palace let him go for a snip, Lambert was a relative Bargain and players like Richardson, Harding, Hammond, Cork, Barnard etc were picked up for a relative snip. If we want to push on further then we'll need to take the spending to the next level as well. You can sometimes get lucky with a freebie or a loan but the real deal and the real progression is often initiated by the outlay, which we did in L1. In a way I see this transfer window as a similar one to the January window under Pards a few years back, when we saw around 6 arrive. The opportunity is there and I can't see us not taking it. I think we have big targets, and lots of money to spend as the players we're after are incredibly impressive. So the ambition is there, the financial clout is obviously there, but is NC able to loosen the strings to bring in a couple of players to continue the progression? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 Well, I havent said it. But there are few posts on this thread that allude to it. I have no idea what our wage strucutre looks like, which is why I just think we should get the players that can fulfill the roles we need with little consideration of their cost. After all, promotion is supposed to be worth 90million to a club, and not even Billy Sharp would end up costing us that. What kind of complete toss pot are you????? Do you want us at the brinkadministrationtion again?? Not so long a go we were looking at the Blue Square Leg as the best option. I for one amcloudould 9 that we are still in business, never mind top of the CL. Yes would love promotion, but rather we have a club first! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bolokov Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 Keyboard warriors of the world unite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 A certain George Burley took that approach and rightly got castigated for it. yes and Alps was one of the main instigators of it. Really don't know why people are losing sleep over Sharp, thought it was already made clear that we weren't going in for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 What kind of complete toss pot are you????? Do you want us at the brinkadministrationtion again?? Not so long a go we were looking at the Blue Square Leg as the best option. I for one amcloudould 9 that we are still in business, never mind top of the CL. Yes would love promotion, but rather we have a club first! Loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sambosa75 Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 I love the way certain people are suggesting a Doncaster Rovers striker is all of a sudden the key to us gaining promotion. Its Billy Sharp FFS. Not Cristiano Ronaldo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 If we do stick with the ''only pay what we feel he's worth'' policy then I feel we'll hit a brick wall this month, not so much in the summer...but January is a nasty time to buy players, especially cheaply. Up until now we haven't had to break records to get the players we want. We were lucky with Fonte as Palace let him go for a snip, Lambert was a relative Bargain and players like Richardson, Harding, Hammond, Cork, Barnard etc were picked up for a relative snip. If we want to push on further then we'll need to take the spending to the next level as well. You can sometimes get lucky with a freebie or a loan but the real deal and the real progression is often initiated by the outlay, which we did in L1. In a way I see this transfer window as a similar one to the January window under Pards a few years back, when we saw around 6 arrive. The opportunity is there and I can't see us not taking it. I think we have big targets, and lots of money to spend as the players we're after are incredibly impressive. So the ambition is there, the financial clout is obviously there, but is NC able to loosen the strings to bring in a couple of players to continue the progression? The way I see it, sooner or later if we really are going for promotion, we are going to be exposed to the next level of transfer fee / wage demand. Therefore, I have no real issue if that is brought forwards 3 or 4 months for a couple of players to do our best to capitalise on our good league position now and ensure promotion. People who really think our wage struture and expenditure are going to remain unafected by promotion are cracked. There is supposed to be a huge financial boost when getting promoted to the PL, although the exact amount seems to be debatable, so I reckon finding a few extra 1000 a week to secure a couple of better players than the club would wish to maintain the spirit of the wage structure is a bit of a no-brainer. Couldnt care who it is for, as long it is players NA wants and thinks can do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 I reckon he'd score a shedful of goals for us this season. Shame it doesn't seem like it's going to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 Well of course it is, it always has been; but it also has to be on the right terms. The information given out by the club was that Sharp was very much a target, but not enough of a target to justify the significant expense on him. The same with Jay Rodriguez; it was investigated and deemed not worth it. I don't really know where this conversation is going so I'm off now. I hope we do sign some players that Adkins has indentified as what he needs, and within our price/wage range. But I'm also glad that we have a club that won't be held to ransom over players financial demands, as that's a very, very rocky road to start treading and given our history down that road, one that we should be extremely careful to tread again. And that's all. The problem I think we have is striking a balance between someone we believe is worth the expense and choosing a target who will actually come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 The problem I think we have is striking a balance between someone we believe is worth the expense and choosing a target who will actually come. Same problem as the Summer then. To be fair, I thought our league position would make us attractive to any potential new players. We'll see. Saints remind me of me when I was at school. Thought I had a chance with the best looking girls, but was routinely turned down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 Same problem as the Summer then. To be fair, I thought our league position would make us attractive to any potential new players. We'll see. Saints remind me of me when I was at school. Thought I had a chance with the best looking girls, but was routinely turned down. I agree. I'm not sure how good we are at negotiating. My suspicion is we give an offer and then go somewhere else if it isn't accepted. Maybe NC could do with being a bit more flexible? There were rumours if you remember of the cork deal almost breaking down at the last minute. Having said that, as you say our position now is better than the summer though we have to get past the clubs that won't want to sell... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 9 January, 2012 Share Posted 9 January, 2012 I agree. I'm not sure how good we are at negotiating. My suspicion is we give an offer and then go somewhere else if it isn't accepted. Maybe NC could do with being a bit more flexible? There were rumours if you remember of the cork deal almost breaking down at the last minute. Having said that, as you say our position now is better than the summer though we have to get past the clubs that won't want to sell... Added to the fact that we already know NC hates agents and dealing with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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