Diane Abbott Racist?

[Orange]

I think she's clearly got a chip on her shoulder about whites, and she gives the impression her identity is based on her colour. She says 'their', i think thats provoking racial hatred, trying to create a 'us and them' type mentality. If it was a white MP we all know what the situation would be.

 

She is a leftie hypocrite and its great to see her making such a ti ou of herself, not for the first time.

Edited 6 January, 2012 by Orange

[saintbletch]

So as an MP and knowing this natons pathetic and over sensitive attitude to a "few clumsy word" it makes it even more foolish to risk outrage and offence. I quite agree with you by the way but we are where we are. You cant have one rule for white people and another for black people. We are all humans, all equal and it is a fact if a white person had said similar things there would be outcry.

 

I agree that we can be too precious. Considering the potential of being offended rather than actually being offended in not the way to judge anyone.

 

That said I have to agree with Turkish here, Diane Abbott's status as an elected public servant makes her different and means her communication is under close scrutiny. Also as Verbal pointed out, the timing of this gaff was particularly unprofessional.

 

We, or perhaps more importantly, the members of her constituency and anyone directly effected by the office she holds, have every right to scrutinise her words and judge her. However, the decision to sanction her has to come from either her party superiors or her constituency (which I believe is 61% white) either at the next election, or by lobbying to remove her in this parliament. To my mind this should be the only determinant of whether she is still fit to do her job. It should have nothing to do with a witch hunt by the the media and the Westminster twitterati.

 

Despite the fact that I wasn't in anyway offended by what she said, I am surprised to see her still in office. But I think that has more to do with Milliband keeping the bastards inside the tent p***ing out, rather than any offence she may or may not have caused.

 

Politically, she is surely mortally wounded now.

[trousers]

Politically, she is surely mortally wounded now.

 

However, she's just created another juicy chapter for her next auto-biography.

 

You lose some, you win some...

[Viking Warrior]

Im not a fan of Ms Abbot although I do like the programme with Protillo and co . After all she only conveyed her thoughts about the original question. Unfortuntely as white folk we cannot or are allowed to air our views. There is no freedom of speech unless you want the long arm of the law to clout you round the head

 

I wish she had answered the original tweet re I wish everyone would stop saying the the black community though , Which One ? . Cleary she is equally divisive against the other ethnic groups as well as white people. She should have clarifeid her comments instead of making a generalisation re white people.

[Foxstone]

Diane Abbott has more chips on her shoulders than Harry Ramsden has in his pans...

 

While she might not have intended to say what she said, I do beleive she loves to play the victim of all things "white"..

 

I mean all this trash about colonialism sounds very Mugabe'ish to me !

[Lord Duckhunter]

I dont believe that Luis Suarez is racist, he said an idiotic thing and got banned for 8 games. I don't believe that Richard Keys and Andy Gray hate women, but they lost their jobs over a stupid comment. Diane Abbott is not racist, BUT she said something racist and should be punished in the same manner. Will she? Of course she won't. If the situation was reversed and a white person person had said that, they'd be out of a job round about now.

 

This is spot on. 100% correct.

 

The Macpherson Report rewrote the rules on racism and racist incidents and lefties like Abbott swear by it when it comes to the Met police. It defines a racist incident as one where someone takes offence, even if none was intended. Therefore, Abbot is guilty and Miliiband needs to stop dithering and act. The problem is the Unions, who he owes his job to, and the leftie membership wont have it, and he's not strong enough to act alone.

[Saintandy666]

I dont believe that Luis Suarez is racist, he said an idiotic thing and got banned for 8 games. I don't believe that Richard Keys and Andy Gray hate women, but they lost their jobs over a stupid comment. Diane Abbott is not racist, BUT she said something racist and should be punished in the same manner. Will she? Of course she won't. If the situation was reversed and a white person person had said that, they'd be out of a job round about now.

 

I think that is a compromise that broadly I am willing to accept. She isn't racist.

Edited 6 January, 2012 by Saintandy666

[Deano6]

This is spot on. 100% correct.

 

The Macpherson Report rewrote the rules on racism and racist incidents and lefties like Abbott swear by it when it comes to the Met police. It defines a racist incident as one where someone takes offence, even if none was intended. Therefore, Abbot is guilty and Miliiband needs to stop dithering and act. The problem is the Unions, who he owes his job to, and the leftie membership wont have it, and he's not strong enough to act alone.

 

That's a ridiculous ruling then. Someone could feign offence just to get someone else in trouble. It would also mean just about all but the tamest comedians are classified as "racist".

[Verbal]

Unfortuntely as white folk we cannot or are allowed to air our views. There is no freedom of speech unless you want the long arm of the law to clout you round the head.

 

A bit of an exaggeration, wouldn't you say, Viking? Or has Mr Plod already been round and given you a clip round the ear for this post?

[Lord Duckhunter]

That's a ridiculous ruling then. Someone could feign offence just to get someone else in trouble. It would also mean just about all but the tamest comedians are classified as "racist".

 

Unfortunately that is how it is in most work places at present.

 

I once had to speak in front of 25 staff and started with a joke about one of them. He didn't mind at all and laughed, but another member of staff complained , and I was hauled in front of the bosses. Had it been perceived as a racist incident(it wasn't a remark about race) there's no doubt I'd have been sacked, even if the guy the joke was aimed at didn't mind. It's why Suarez can not claim the defence that he didn't mean anything racist by his remark but he's still committed a racial incident.

 

People like Abbott follow the Macpherson Report like it's some sort of holy scripture,especially when attacking the police. Therefore if we judge her comments by the wording of that report, it was a racist incident because people took offense. As someone posted earlier "hoist by one's own petard" springs to mind.

[Vershinin]

I think that is a compromise that broadly I am willing to accept. She isn't racist.

 

Sorry Andy, what do you mean?

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Who cares what Dianne Abbot says. She is a politician and will be judged at the ballot box.

[Saintandy666]

Sorry Andy, what do you mean?

 

The part of the point I agree with is that the comment is bad, but she isn't actually racist - just made a stupid comment(which she is prone too every so often, a bit like Boris Johnson, but he gets away with it because he is 'Boris'). I'll go for that compromise on my earlier views.

[pap]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmOhzIfiIsc

[Saintandy666]

Who cares what Dianne Abbot says. She is a politician and will be judged at the ballot box.

 

Another good point. If her constituents now no longer like her, they can vote her out.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

It is a sad reflection of our society. When Clarkeson says something stupid all the lefties get their knickers in a twist - they want more than just to call him a pratt. Diane Abbot says something stupid all of the right want more than just to call her an idiot. If somebody says something stupid then ridicule them, don't call the police.

[hypochondriac]

It is a sad reflection of our society. When Clarkeson says something stupid all the lefties get their knickers in a twist - they want more than just to call him a pratt. Diane Abbot says something stupid all of the right want more than just to call her an idiot. If somebody says something stupid then ridicule them, don't call the police.

 

I think the point was that people were highlighting the unfairness in the fact that a white person making a comment about a black person would get a much harsher punishment than if the situation were reversed.

[Saintandy666]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=vKc7ACA9EeQ

 

Chuka Umuna gets it right, as does Nick Clegg afterwards.

[Verbal]

I think the point was that people were highlighting the unfairness in the fact that a white person making a comment about a black person would get a much harsher punishment than if the situation were reversed.

 

I see you're one of those 'sample of one' hysterics.

[Saintandy666]

It is a sad reflection of our society. When Clarkeson says something stupid all the lefties get their knickers in a twist - they want more than just to call him a pratt. Diane Abbot says something stupid all of the right want more than just to call her an idiot. If somebody says something stupid then ridicule them, don't call the police.

 

That is true, some of the outrage is politically motivated because she is left wing and I can tell that by their response to other groups such as the EDL. Consistency is needed. Oh, and I'm as left wing as the next person, and I didn't get my knickers in a twist at Clarkson's comments!

[Lord Duckhunter]

The part of the point I agree with is that the comment is bad, but she isn't actually racist - just made a stupid comment(which she is prone too every so often, a bit like Boris Johnson, but he gets away with it because he is 'Boris'). I'll go for that compromise on my earlier views.

 

Do you really think that if Boris had said "black people" and used the same words he'd still be Mayor of London? Of course he wouldn't, and leading the call for him to go and first out of the stalls and into the TV studios shouting from the rooftops would be Abbott.

[Verbal]

Do you think she should be sacked or resign?

 

Yes. She holds a shadow position in Health. It's a vital part of her job therefore to represent all people equally and fairly, not just the ones she somehow believes don't 'divide and rule'.

[Saintandy666]

Do you really think that if Boris had said "black people" and used the same words he'd still be Mayor of London? Of course he wouldn't, and leading the call for him to go and first out of the stalls and into the TV studios shouting from the rooftops would be Abbott.

 

You're not wrong there. And while Boris has gotten away with stuff before might I add - http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23433540-i-didnt-mean-to-be-racist-claims-boris.do and other not racist stuff.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

I think the point was that people were highlighting the unfairness in the fact that a white person making a comment about a black person would get a much harsher punishment than if the situation were reversed.

 

Well that too is totally ludicrous. It generates division and perpetuates the problem.

[Saintandy666]

Yes. She holds a shadow position in Health. It's a vital part of her job therefore to represent all people equally and fairly, not just the ones she somehow believes don't 'divide and rule'.

 

I think her actions over the years speak louder than her words(as Chuka Umuna said). She has a proven track record in her actions of being an active supporter of treating all equal.

[Verbal]

I think her actions over the years speak louder than her words(as Chuka Umuna said). She has a proven track record in her actions of being an active supporter of treating all equal.

 

Her words have spoken more loudly than her actions over the years, Andy. As far as actions are concerned, she has not been a political innovator - she's certainly no Barbara Castle - and so her loss would not be greatly felt. Frankly, if she were such a political force, she'd be more than a shadow junior health minister by now.

[trousers]

The Macpherson Report rewrote the rules on racism and racist incidents and lefties like Abbott swear by it when it comes to the Met police. It defines a racist incident as one where someone takes offence, even if none was intended. Therefore, Abbot is guilty

 

Does the Macpherson report distinguish between someone taking actual offence and someone feigning offence because they think they ought to be offended?

 

I'm yet to meet anyone who was genuinely offended by what Abbott said. Yes, I've met plenty of people who think she was daft to say what she said but no-one who was actually offended by it, in the true sense of the word.

 

Has anyone genuinely felt the following emotions upon reading Abbott's words?

 

of·fend (-fnd)v. of·fend·ed, of·fend·ing, of·fends

v.tr.1. To cause displeasure, anger, resentment, or wounded feelings in.

2. To be displeasing or disagreeable to: Onions offend my sense of smell.

3. a. To transgress; violate: offend all laws of humanity.

b. To cause to sin.

 

v.intr.1. To result in displeasure: Bad manners may offend.

2. a. To violate a moral or divine law; sin.

b. To violate a rule or law: offended against the curfew.

 

[TABLE]

[TR]

[TD]Adj.[/TD]

[TD]1.[/TD]

[TD]offended - hurt or upset; "she looked offended"; "face had a pained and puzzled expression"[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

Edited 6 January, 2012 by trousers

[Lord Duckhunter]

I think her actions over the years speak louder than her words(as Chuka Umuna said). She has a proven track record in her actions of being an active supporter of treating all equal.

 

Lets look at her track record.

 

She called George Osborne and David Cameron 2 posh "white" boys

 

Had Nick Clegg come on Sky news following Chuka Umuna and said "I agree with the posh black boy" lefties everywhere would go into meltdown.

 

She also made comments about West Indian parents wanting what's right for their children.

 

Her campaigning is not about being an "active supporter of treating all equal", it is about advancing the cause of black people, a completely different thing.

[Verbal]

Does the Macpherson report distinguish between someone taking actual offence and someone feigning offence because they think they ought to be offended?

 

I'm yet to meet anyone who was genuinely offended by what Abbott said. Yes, I've met plenty of people who think she was daft to say what she said but no-one who was actually offended by it, in the true sense of the word.

 

Has anyone genuinely felt the following emotions upon reading Abbott's words?

 

of·fend (-fnd)v. of·fend·ed, of·fend·ing, of·fends

v.tr.1. To cause displeasure, anger, resentment, or wounded feelings in.

2. To be displeasing or disagreeable to: Onions offend my sense of smell.

3. a. To transgress; violate: offend all laws of humanity.

b. To cause to sin.

 

v.intr.1. To result in displeasure: Bad manners may offend.

2. a. To violate a moral or divine law; sin.

b. To violate a rule or law: offended against the curfew.

 

So you think DA's comments didn't 'cause displeasure'?

[trousers]

So you think DA's comments didn't 'cause displeasure'?

 

No. Quite the opposite. Knowing how daft the comments were and the inevitable knee jerk 'furore' that followed I found the whole thing quite amusing.

 

Southampton losing a game of football. Now there's a genuine cause for displeasure. Some daft comments from a slightly batty politician? Nah.

[Verbal]

No. Quite the opposite. Knowing how daft the comments were and the inevitable knee jerk 'furore' that followed I found the whole thing quite amusing.

 

Southampton losing a game of football. Now there's a genuine cause for displeasure. Some daft comments from a slightly batty politician? Nah.

 

Peels of laughter is the one sound I haven't heard so far.

[trousers]

Peels of laughter is the one sound I haven't heard so far.

 

I know you like putting words in my mouth (amongst other things) but "quite amused" hardly translates to "peels of laughter"

 

;-)

[Gingeletiss]

Was just about to post a link to a blog written along similar lines when the Clarkson "shoot the strikers" 'furore' broke out.

 

We have indeed turned into a nation of people outraged and offenced at the drop of a hat - not genuine outrage or offence but a 'fall in line' mentality because we're all worried what people will think of us if we don't join in the faux outrage and/or offence.

 

Abbot is no more a racist or bigot than Clarkson but people clamour to find something offensive because they think that's the right thing to do.

 

Of course get angry when someone is murdered due to their skin colour but try putting things into perspective when someone simply utters some clumsy words.

 

Tell that to some on here, who see a 'racist' behind every phrase!

[pap]

I know you like putting words in my mouth (amongst other things) but "quite amused" hardly translates to "peels of laughter"

 

;-)

 

It's a skill, and we love him for it.

[Vershinin]

The part of the point I agree with is that the comment is bad, but she isn't actually racist - just made a stupid comment(which she is prone too every so often, a bit like Boris Johnson, but he gets away with it because he is 'Boris'). I'll go for that compromise on my earlier views.

 

I agree, i doubt she is racist, but why should she be exempt from punishment? It's in stark contrast to the examples I highlighted earlier. What makes her different to other 'offensive' remarks made by people in this country?

[Saintandy666]

I agree, i doubt she is racist, but why should she be exempt from punishment? It's in stark contrast to the examples I highlighted earlier. What makes her different to other 'offensive' remarks made by people in this country?

 

It's a good point, and I think it needs to be looked at on a case by case basis. I think I agree with Chuka Umuna. In this case, the apology is enough just like in Boris Johnson's case that I posted a link too earlier.

[JRM]

Lets look at her track record.

 

 

 

Her campaigning is not about being an "active supporter of treating all equal", it is about advancing the cause of black people, a completely different thing.

 

exactly right, it is about time the public realised this.

[Whitey Grandad]

I agree, i doubt she is racist, but why should she be exempt from punishment? It's in stark contrast to the examples I highlighted earlier. What makes her different to other 'offensive' remarks made by people in this country?

 

She might not realise that she is racist. Perhaps she needs re-education?

[Viking Warrior]

Verbal > I was making a general comment re freedom of speech. There is freedom of speech except you have to be carefully you dont offend anyone including you!!

 

There has been a crackdown on soccer fans up here in Scotland regarding the recent anti secatarin laws that are in force.

 

it is about opinions. If the police think it is breaking the law they will soon nab you up here.

[alpine_saint]

I see she has now gone and offended London Taxi drivers with another generalisation accusing an interest group of racism.

 

Maybe she should STFU, think twice about her Twittering; even better, STFU and concentrate on her constituency and her portfolio.

[Stubby]

Bottom line, then:

 

- Whether a person is racist or not, and whether is comment is racist or not, seems hard to define. None of us is perfect and I suspect we all pick and choose our arguments to some extent. It might be helpful if people of all ethnicities and political pursuasions would show more tolerance, including Diane abbott.

 

- Diane Abbott is a hypocrite.

 

- Saintandy66 has posted a huge number of times on this thread, defending Diane Abbott - perhaps because he shares her left-wing politics. We all try to defend those with whom we agree. Sometimes loyalty can seem a higher virtue than objectivity.

[Saints1980]

I've posted this video before as I hate the fat b/tch with a passion.

 

[video=youtube;-5uMbMJ2EUQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5uMbMJ2EUQ

 

That video from 3:05 when she has the opportunity to show she is not a racist and doesn't take it speaks volumes.

 

The 'Divide and Rule' tweet is not an isolated incident, she should be fired.

[pap]

Hmm, interesting video. If she'd made good on her repeated claim that she has "nothing more to say", she might not be in the hot water she has found herself in.

[CHAPEL END CHARLIE]

I'm in all favour of politicians saying what they mean, and meaning what they say. There's far too much of what you might call a 'you can't say that' attitude about in politics and our broadcast media and there's no good in it. If you don't like what a politician has too say then instead of calling for them to be silenced in some sinister Stalinist manner, why not just try not voting for them instead ?

 

I say the pot needs stirring every now and then, or do we actually want a political class dominated by bland careerist nonentities so afraid of saying anything controversial that it becomes impossible to know what they really stand for ? Presuming they stand for something in the first place that is.

 

We're pretty far down that dismal road already if you ask me.

[alpine_saint]

Bottom line, then:

 

- Whether a person is racist or not, and whether is comment is racist or not, seems hard to define. None of us is perfect and I suspect we all pick and choose our arguments to some extent. It might be helpful if people of all ethnicities and political pursuasions would show more tolerance, including Diane abbott.

 

- Diane Abbott is a hypocrite.

 

- Saintandy66 has posted a huge number of times on this thread, defending Diane Abbott - perhaps because he shares her left-wing politics. We all try to defend those with whom we agree. Sometimes loyalty can seem a higher virtue than objectivity.

 

There is loyalty, then there is defending the indefensible.

 

However, I am grateful to saintstandy666 for re-emphasising the essential hypocrisy of the left "do as I say, not as I do" wing of politics.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

However, I am grateful to saintstandy666 for re-emphasising the essential hypocrisy of the left "do as I say, not as I do" wing of politics.

 

Are we really going to go down this route? I'm sure us hypocrites over here could find something equally as hypocritical (or more than likely abhorrent) that the right wing has done over the years. This type of issue should be one that trancends political dogma.

[alpine_saint]

Are we really going to go down this route? I'm sure us hypocrites over here could find something equally as hypocritical (or more than likely abhorrent) that the right wing has done over the years. This type of issue should be one that trancends political dogma.

 

Tell your mate Diana that.

[alpine_saint]

Duckhunter is spot-on about Abbot.

 

The BBC like to portray her as a campaigner for equality, but actually she only gives a sh*t about the black agenda. I would challenge any of her supporters on here to name an example of an issue she has pushed for the white community against the black community when the misjustice has been in the opposite direction.

[Viking Warrior]

I see Millipede has entered the fray re twitter. making a tribute to bob holness and is work with Blackbusters. I thought he went to a posh school

what an idjit

[Saintandy666]

I see Millipede has entered the fray re twitter. making a tribute to bob holness and is work with Blackbusters. I thought he went to a posh school

what an idjit

 

Oh come off it. The Sun are clutching at straws(and frankly need to get a life) with leading on this story. Miliband won't have written the tweet and it would have been a harmless typing error. Miliband went to a comprehensive as well.