Fitzhugh Fella Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I am struggling to move on from yesterday and think we lost because D'Urso made 4 really bad decisions in the first 51 mins. 1. Booking Harding for a really good tackle on C M-S. There was nothing wrong with it, it was hard it was fair and it was not dangerous - so why the booking which then led to more problems 2. Lallana goal that wasn't - just bad incompetance - if you can see a bad tackle that wasn't how come you can't see a goal that was? 3. The penalty when Lambert was pushed - as blatant as I have ever seen and D'Urso had a perfect view. Lambert was about to connect and got a massive shove that was impossible to simulate. 4. A few mins later Lambert was grappled to the ground and then stopped from getting to his feet; he did what anyone would do and stuck his arm out to fend off the pincer movement and the B+HA defender put his face in the way of Lambert's palm and did a dying swan act. I accept point nos 4 was dependable on what was seen when but how can you assault someone when you are lying on your back and trying to stand quickly. D'Urso's decision was so terribly wrong. Add those 4 decisions up and you have the reason why we lost. Personally can't see the point of football any more if you are robbed by poor ref's decisions. I wouldn't mind but is D'Urso going to held account.? Sorry just letting off steam. Normally I am a critic of saints but imo we would have won if anyone else but D'Urso was in charge. We must move on - the next month's transfer activity will reveal true intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bourno Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I agree 100% I dislike losing but hate being cheated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Didcot Saint Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Let's just hope what goes round comes round. I don't think we have become a poor team overnight, we are going through a bad spell, and most teams have one. If we can sort it out, we are still top and no matter what **** teams like Brighton get away with it will come right again! UTS! Oh and as for D'Urso, god knows how many teams have been on the wrong end of his disgracefully poor decisions, if ever a ref should be sacked, he should be first on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 D'Urso is ****ing useless. Always has been. Forget about it. We'll bounce back on Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I am struggling to move on from yesterday and think we lost because D'Urso made 4 really bad decisions in the first 51 mins. 1. Booking Harding for a really good tackle on C M-S. There was nothing wrong with it, it was hard it was fair and it was not dangerous - so why the booking which then led to more problems 2. Lallana goal that wasn't - just bad incompetance - if you can see a bad tackle that wasn't how come you can't see a goal that was? 3. The penalty when Lambert was pushed - as blatant as I have ever seen and D'Urso had a perfect view. Lambert was about to connect and got a massive shove that was impossible to simulate. 4. A few mins later Lambert was grappled to the ground and then stopped from getting to his feet; he did what anyone would do and stuck his arm out to fend off the pincer movement and the B+HA defender put his face in the way of Lambert's palm and did a dying swan act. I accept point nos 4 was dependable on what was seen when but how can you assault someone when you are lying on your back and trying to stand quickly. D'Urso's decision was so terribly wrong. Add those 4 decisions up and you have the reason why we lost. Personally can't see the point of football any more if you are robbed by poor ref's decisions. I wouldn't mind but is D'Urso going to held account.? Sorry just letting off steam. Normally I am a critic of saints but imo we would have won if anyone else but D'Urso was in charge. We must move on - the next month's transfer activity will reveal true intent. I agree 100 per cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 (edited) you have to accept bad decisions, as I have done in the past 50 years (as a fan) but what is really annoying to me is that now that the technology is available to help the referee - it isn't used, when it is available in a half dozen other major sports. The fourth ref. should sit in front of a TV monitor (as I do) and relay correct decisions if there are any doubts, or uncertainty. It wouldn't take longer than the average throw-in, or goal kick. All these cra**y arguements about undermining the ref's authority.. Good decisions taken properly would only go to enhance the refs reputation. I hate sitting at home watching a game on TV , yet knowing the ref. has his own " Hollywood version " (complete with bloopers !) Edited 3 January, 2012 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Isn't there already a whole thread on D'Urso's performance? And hundreds of comments throughout various other threads? Zzzzzzzzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suhari Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Agree. When things are going bad, they often seem to go worse! Reckon the next few weeks will see us sign a few, have another dodgy performance (and probably lose top spot), then we'll push on and finish Champions. Going to be a rollercoaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shirleysfc Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I am struggling to move on from yesterday and think we lost because D'Urso made 4 really bad decisions in the first 51 mins. 1. Booking Harding for a really good tackle on C M-S. There was nothing wrong with it, it was hard it was fair and it was not dangerous - so why the booking which then led to more problems It wasn't a booking but the situation could have been avoided if Harding didn't have the touch of a rapist! 2. Lallana goal that wasn't - just bad incompetance - if you can see a bad tackle that wasn't how come you can't see a goal that was?Unforgivable! 3. The penalty when Lambert was pushed - as blatant as I have ever seen and D'Urso had a perfect view. Lambert was about to connect and got a massive shove that was impossible to simulate.The worst decision for me, it wasn't even a crowded box!! 4. A few mins later Lambert was grappled to the ground and then stopped from getting to his feet; he did what anyone would do and stuck his arm out to fend off the pincer movement and the B+HA defender put his face in the way of Lambert's palm and did a dying swan act. I accept point nos 4 was dependable on what was seen when but how can you assault someone when you are lying on your back and trying to stand quickly. D'Urso's decision was so terribly wrong. Add those 4 decisions up and you have the reason why we lost. Personally can't see the point of football any more if you are robbed by poor ref's decisions. I wouldn't mind but is D'Urso going to held account.? Sorry just letting off steam. Normally I am a critic of saints but imo we would have won if anyone else but D'Urso was in charge. We must move on - the next month's transfer activity will reveal true intent. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 you have to accept bad decisions, as I have done in the past 50 years (as a fan) but what is really annoying to me is that now that the technology is available to help the referee - it isn't used, when it is available in a half dozen other major sports. The fourth ref. should sit in front of a TV monitor (as I do) and relay correct decisions if there are any doubts, or uncertainty. It wouldn't take longer than the average throw-in, or goal kick. All these cra**y arguements about undermining the ref's authority.. Good decisions taken properly would only go to enhance the refs reputation. I hate sitting at home watching a game on TV , yet knowing the ref. has his own " Hollywood version " (complete with bloopers !) Could not agree more. Has rugby, cricket or tennis fallen apart for the introduction of technology?? No, they've all become much more accurate. And the Indians failure to accept the referral system has been shown up in the recent series to be a major mistake! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itchen_block4 Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 The ref at St Mary's gave us a penalty that was clearly outside the box. You win some, you lose some. There's no point in dwelling on refereeing decisions. Lambert's arm was raised and I don't dispute the red card, but the behaviour of the defender is very unsporting and fakery should be made a yellow card offence to crack down on it. At the World Cup I recall Kaka walking into an Ivory Coast player and getting sent off because the player went down holding his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Here you go, this game tonight proof in point that video evidence is now needed... Joke decisions all night long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Charlie Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Agree. When the sending off happened we were clearly the better team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 The ref vs Bristol City was equally blinkered when it came to awarding fouls for pushes and pulls on Lambert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 The ref at St Mary's gave us a penalty that was clearly outside the box. But that didn't change the course of the game as obviously as it did on Monday. In that game we were the better team and the bad decision simply helped the best team on their way to a victory they deserved anyway. On Monday it was the reverse. The bad decision helped the worse team (up to that point) to a victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebel Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Brighton fans would argue we only won the game at St Marys due to dodgy refereeing - although I would argue that we won that game despite the referee as he was truly awful. He seemed to get virtually every decision wrong! But we were 1-0 up and would have won anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pip Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I think the appeal system in tennis is a good one. You get a certain number of appeals per game. If you are correct you get the point and keep the same number of appeals. If you're wrong you lose an appeal. It stops excessive appeals and the replays on screen seem to add to the game experience. I'm sure this could be adapted for football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Brighton fans would argue we only won the game at St Marys due to dodgy refereeing - although I would argue that we won that game despite the referee as he was truly awful. He seemed to get virtually every decision wrong! But we were 1-0 up and would have won anyway! He got one decision wrong in our favour - the first penalty. However, he failed to give an earlier blatant penalty to us. If we had got that earlier we may well have won by more as Brighton fell apart as soon as we got a goal. He also didn't give us two 50/50 penalty appeals. Brighton also should definitely have had one more red card and quite possibly two more. Walton was awful (as he was the previous time he reffed at St Mary's in the match we won against Leeds) but the balance of his decisions actually favoured Brighton in that match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Malc Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I don't agree that technology should be introduced. Football is unique and not comparible to any other sport especially cricket. Rugby too is a stop, start sport where the game is stopped for anything and everything and it's definitely not as dynamic as football. But my main issue, though, is that football should be the same for everyone from the grass roots level to the top professional games and, ATM, you can not apply TV replays to under 8 Sunday morning games (you may in the future). People say there's too much money to be lost in the game because of bad decisions but who loses this money? Not the fans that's for sure. I'm a firm believer of everything evens itself over a season. D'Urso should be sacked though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 The ref at St Mary's gave us a penalty that was clearly outside the box. You win some, you lose some. There's no point in dwelling on refereeing decisions. Lambert's arm was raised and I don't dispute the red card, but the behaviour of the defender is very unsporting and fakery should be made a yellow card offence to crack down on it. At the World Cup I recall Kaka walking into an Ivory Coast player and getting sent off because the player went down holding his face. But he missed 2 other blatant penalties! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I don't agree that technology should be introduced. Football is unique and not comparible to any other sport especially cricket. Rugby too is a stop, start sport where the game is stopped for anything and everything and it's definitely not as dynamic as football. But my main issue, though, is that football should be the same for everyone from the grass roots level to the top professional games and, ATM, you can not apply TV replays to under 8 Sunday morning games (you may in the future). People say there's too much money to be lost in the game because of bad decisions but who loses this money? Not the fans that's for sure. I'm a firm believer of everything evens itself over a season. D'Urso should be sacked though. I could not disagree more. To take those points in turn: Football is stop start - and definitely has become more so over the past decade. It is no different to rugby in that the ref blows a whistle, people stop. I would hazard a guess the ball is in play for what 60 minutes of each game? Why would reviewing a penalty decision take any longer than the arguments do about said penalty? And if you have ever been to a rugby game and waited for the decision on a try why is this a bad thing?? The idea of grass roots games being the same as professional games I can understand, but do you feel grass roots tennis or rugby have suffered for the introduction of technology? Or cricket, where this argument was used ad infinitum and now technology's most fervent objectors are now among its fans?? And finally, there is too much money in football. But given that there is, what is your choice - to hope the ref gets it right with a penalty decision in the play-off final, or to give him as much hekp as possible to make the correct decision?? And what if that decision costs a club promotion, loss of players - don't the fans suffer indirectly? And what if I have had a bet on Southampton to win the league at 14/1 and that decision costs me thousands of pounds?? I am sure I won't change your mind, but it baffles me that in any part of life you would object to technology that could contribute towards a fairer and more just outcome... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Malc Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 We'll agree to disagree then ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 We'll agree to disagree then ;-) Touché sir! (But if a lack of a tv replay costs me two grand, you might hear from me again...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Malc Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 And if you gain £2,000 because of a dodgy decision you'll give it to me :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicSaint Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 What realy annoys me is the obvious cheating of one player on a fellow player irrespective of them being on opposite teams. I hate it when one of ours does it and its just as bad when its the opposition. This is no defence of the ref but he was not the one rolling around and holding his face. I'd like to see the scares as evidence for how hard Ricky hit him! Its beginning to put me off watching each week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stepgar Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 ... Sorry what does .... Mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Agree Fitzhugh - those decisions (the 'goal' and sending off in particular) changed the whole course of the game. And on the goal that never was, what was the linesman bloody well doing?! His positioning wasn't perfect, but surely he had a reasonable view? I don't moan about refs all that often (honest!), but D'Urso is just utterly useless - I think you'd get concensus from most fans across the country on that. Shouldn't you be out of your 24 hour post-match de(com)pression by now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikee Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I don't agree that technology should be introduced. Football is unique and not comparible to any other sport especially cricket. Rugby too is a stop, start sport where the game is stopped for anything and everything and it's definitely not as dynamic as football. But my main issue, though, is that football should be the same for everyone from the grass roots level to the top professional games and, ATM, you can not apply TV replays to under 8 Sunday morning games (you may in the future). People say there's too much money to be lost in the game because of bad decisions but who loses this money? Not the fans that's for sure. I'm a firm believer of everything evens itself over a season. D'Urso should be sacked though. This is a nice notion but not really valid as the games are already different at each end of the spectrum. Kids playing at the weekend are lucky to get a linesman and certainly never an impartial one, let alone give them mics to talk to the ref and what about that piece of technology the fourth official (never seen one of those down the local rec) uses to announce subs. In reality the game is already very different. Once you accept that, then the most important thing is to get the big decisions right and the biggest decisions are at the top of the football pyramid where so much is at stake. Technology will happen it is inevitable and will really help refs to improve their decision making and enhance their credibility. Maybe then we wont need threads like this. My biggest bug bear at the moment is that refs are seeming to favour the cheats and actors over the decent footballers whose first instinct is to try to stay on their feet. This is very worrying as I couldn't handle more than one Brighton per league - easily the most cynical, dirty and cheating team in the football league. IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelkel31 Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 But that didn't change the course of the game as obviously as it did on Monday. In that game we were the better team and the bad decision simply helped the best team on their way to a victory they deserved anyway. On Monday it was the reverse. The bad decision helped the worse team (up to that point) to a victory. it 100% had an effect on the game, there spoiling throughout the 95mins never allowed us to get going(not withstanding another poor performance) if the ref had put a stop to it from the start, to which there were many instances that he could have for one point they wouldnt have had 11 players on the pitch for the last 1/4 of the game, if morgan can get booked for persitant fouling(even thou most wernt fouls) then there centre back should have been off even before the ref pulled him to one side and told him to calm down just because he was on a yellow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Hope it doesn't cost us more than those 3 points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corky morris Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Adkins has mentioned other managers mentioning their tactics before. basically cheating bastards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legod Third Coming Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 This is a nice notion but not really valid as the games are already different at each end of the spectrum. Kids playing at the weekend are lucky to get a linesman and certainly never an impartial one, let alone give them mics to talk to the ref and what about that piece of technology the fourth official (never seen one of those down the local rec) uses to announce subs. In reality the game is already very different. Once you accept that, then the most important thing is to get the big decisions right and the biggest decisions are at the top of the football pyramid where so much is at stake. Technology will happen it is inevitable and will really help refs to improve their decision making and enhance their credibility. Maybe then we wont need threads like this. My biggest bug bear at the moment is that refs are seeming to favour the cheats and actors over the decent footballers whose first instinct is to try to stay on their feet. This is very worrying as I couldn't handle more than one Brighton per league - easily the most cynical, dirty and cheating team in the football league. IMHO There was a prime example of this on Friday night when SDR got into the box and tried to pull his cross back. En route, there was no doubt he was fouled but his first instinct was to carry on and attempt to cross the ball to create a goal. Part of me thinks he should have gone down which I HATE!!! I don't ever want to think like that. But because you know it's going to happen to us... It's a bloody shame that most sports with the possible exception of golf and snooker have just got less honest... Even in cricket now you see shameful appealing. Failing to walk is one thing but protesting your innocence when the camera shows you've leathered it, or appealing when the camera shows it hit an arm guard just makes you out to be a cheat...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian the Red Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I am struggling to move on from yesterday and think we lost because D'Urso made 4 really bad decisions in the first 51 mins. 1. Booking Harding for a really good tackle on C M-S. There was nothing wrong with it, it was hard it was fair and it was not dangerous - so why the booking which then led to more problems 2. Lallana goal that wasn't - just bad incompetance - if you can see a bad tackle that wasn't how come you can't see a goal that was? 3. The penalty when Lambert was pushed - as blatant as I have ever seen and D'Urso had a perfect view. Lambert was about to connect and got a massive shove that was impossible to simulate. 4. A few mins later Lambert was grappled to the ground and then stopped from getting to his feet; he did what anyone would do and stuck his arm out to fend off the pincer movement and the B+HA defender put his face in the way of Lambert's palm and did a dying swan act. I accept point nos 4 was dependable on what was seen when but how can you assault someone when you are lying on your back and trying to stand quickly. D'Urso's decision was so terribly wrong. Add those 4 decisions up and you have the reason why we lost. Personally can't see the point of football any more if you are robbed by poor ref's decisions. I wouldn't mind but is D'Urso going to held account.? Sorry just letting off steam. Normally I am a critic of saints but imo we would have won if anyone else but D'Urso was in charge. We must move on - the next month's transfer activity will reveal true intent. Absolutely right!! We were robbed by D'Urso........... again. The man must hate us as I have yet to see him ref a game in which we have been involved and he has refereed fairly. The man is a complete c^&t!! And we should appeal the sending off, RL is clearly trying to get up and there is such an exaggerated head movement from the cheating bandit that it obviously was designed to get the player sent off. If RL intended to hit the tw£t, firstly he would have been looking at the target and secondly think he would have used significantly more force. RL was off balance, practically on the ground with the cheat all over him, he was simply trying to get up. Disgraceful decission and graceful behaviour by one player to another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 i could not disagree more. To take those points in turn: Football is stop start - and definitely has become more so over the past decade. It is no different to rugby in that the ref blows a whistle, people stop. I would hazard a guess the ball is in play for what 60 minutes of each game? Why would reviewing a penalty decision take any longer than the arguments do about said penalty? And if you have ever been to a rugby game and waited for the decision on a try why is this a bad thing?? The idea of grass roots games being the same as professional games i can understand, but do you feel grass roots tennis or rugby have suffered for the introduction of technology? Or cricket, where this argument was used ad infinitum and now technology's most fervent objectors are now among its fans?? And finally, there is too much money in football. But given that there is, what is your choice - to hope the ref gets it right with a penalty decision in the play-off final, or to give him as much hekp as possible to make the correct decision?? And what if that decision costs a club promotion, loss of players - don't the fans suffer indirectly? And what if i have had a bet on southampton to win the league at 14/1 and that decision costs me thousands of pounds?? i am sure i won't change your mind, but it baffles me that in any part of life you would object to technology that could contribute towards a fairer and more just outcome... spot on!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Absolutely right!! We were robbed by D'Urso........... again. The man must hate us as I have yet to see him ref a game in which we have been involved and he has refereed fairly. The man is a complete c^&t!! And we should appeal the sending off, RL is clearly trying to get up and there is such an exaggerated head movement from the cheating bandit that it obviously was designed to get the player sent off. If RL intended to hit the tw£t, firstly he would have been looking at the target and secondly think he would have used significantly more force. RL was off balance, practically on the ground with the cheat all over him, he was simply trying to get up. Disgraceful decission and graceful behaviour by one player to another. I believe we have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 There was a prime example of this on Friday night when SDR got into the box and tried to pull his cross back. En route, there was no doubt he was fouled but his first instinct was to carry on and attempt to cross the ball to create a goal. Part of me thinks he should have gone down which I HATE!!! I don't ever want to think like that. But because you know it's going to happen to us... It's a bloody shame that most sports with the possible exception of golf and snooker have just got less honest... Even in cricket now you see shameful appealing. Failing to walk is one thing but protesting your innocence when the camera shows you've leathered it, or appealing when the camera shows it hit an arm guard just makes you out to be a cheat...! Absolutely correct furthermore referees and authorities are condoning the cheating. Any player that uses his hands and arms to impede an opponent ahould be penalised especially in the penalty area. Referees also have dual standards if it's a foul in the centre circle it's a foul in the penalty area. Players trying to stop free kicks being taken should be sent off. Appealing for throw ins when it obvious it's the oppositions throw. A fifteen minute yellow card sin bin would help referees to apply the rules. Football badly needs cleaning up, cheating is rife. The worst time waste of all is the referee stopping virtually every free kick in shooting range being taken until the ritual lining up of the wall at the required distance takes place. Why should the offending side be allowed time to organise a defence. the free kick should be taken as soon as the attacking side wants. The mobbing of the referee should be a sending off offence. If four players were sent off it wouldn't happen again. Penalties should be allowed to be taken immediately before booking action etc takes place and a penalty goal given if the defending side impede the taking trying to pressure the taker. The rules don't need interpretation they need applying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I believe we have that would be good, Brighton's awful disciplinary record might even help us there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpturner Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I think they may have felt slightly cheated at St Mary's by being on the receiving end of one highly dubious penalty and another that was a clear two feet outside of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I don't get why people are blaming D'Urso. I agree he made some poor decisions. But the game changing decision was Lambert's red card, that wasn't D'Urso's fault. It was Lambert's. Lambert is the main reason we lost yesterday, we were in complete control until he needlessly retaliated. Cork also had a mare and was at fault for all 3 goals. I'm not defending D'Urso, but a lot of people seem to look through blinkers. Yes we probably should have had a penalty, but so should Brighton. Yes El-Abd shouldn't have bought down Rickie or reacted like he did to getting a hand in the face. But at the end of the day it was Lambert who made the conscious decision to retaliate, and in today's rules, if your hand makes contact with someone else's face, it's a red card. Whether it was meant as a "push off" or a strike is irrelevant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I don't get why people are blaming D'Urso. I agree he made some poor decisions. But the game changing decision was Lambert's red card, that wasn't D'Urso's fault. It was Lambert's. Lambert is the main reason we lost yesterday, we were in complete control until he needlessly retaliated. Cork also had a mare and was at fault for all 3 goals. I'm not defending D'Urso, but a lot of people seem to look through blinkers. Yes we probably should have had a penalty, but so should Brighton. Yes El-Abd shouldn't have bought down Rickie or reacted like he did to getting a hand in the face. But at the end of the day it was Lambert who made the conscious decision to retaliate, and in today's rules, if your hand makes contact with someone else's face, it's a red card. Whether it was meant as a "push off" or a strike is irrelevantYou don't blame D'Urso on the one hand and then state that in your opinion he should have awarded a penalty to us and one to them. So perhaps you provide the ammunition yourself for agreeing that his performance in that game was sub-standard. He also missed the Lallana goal. And if he was wrong with those three decisions, why couldn't he be wrong about the Lambert sending off? Yes, there is the letter of the law regarding a player striking another player's face, but as I have argued before, cannot there be a situation of face to hand, in the same way that a hand or arm touching a ball can be deemed to be ball to hand? And isn't El-Adb's action in bringing him down and then preventing him getting up to be considered in mitigation? And how can you say what Lambert's conscious decision was? Can you read his mind? My reading of it was that his conscious decision might well have been to slap the ground in anger and frustration, but that El-Adb got in the way and massively exaggerated the contact to get Lambert sent off. Either D'Urso didn't see what actually led up to what he thought happened, in which case he is guilty of poor refereeing as he was with the Lallana goal, or his judgement was at fault for not realising that by his theatrical play-acting, El-Adb was faking in order to deceive him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
up and away Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I am struggling to move on from yesterday and think we lost because D'Urso made 4 really bad decisions in the first 51 mins. 1. Booking Harding for a really good tackle on C M-S. There was nothing wrong with it, it was hard it was fair and it was not dangerous - so why the booking which then led to more problems 2. Lallana goal that wasn't - just bad incompetance - if you can see a bad tackle that wasn't how come you can't see a goal that was? I have not seen a good enough image to judge, but Solent had a good look at the replays and came to the conclusion it was too close to tell. Others have clearly indicated it was over the line. Something I believe Window Cleaner touched on the other day is what denoted the ball being over the line. The defining edge is the outer edge of the line and every part of the ball needs to be across an imaginagy vertical line from that point. That can mean you get to see a lot of green grass between the line and the ball, with it still not technically having crossed the line. 3. The penalty when Lambert was pushed - as blatant as I have ever seen and D'Urso had a perfect view. Lambert was about to connect and got a massive shove that was impossible to simulate. Seen it so many times now and still shake my head in disbelief that these are not given. Just accept this as part and parcel of the game now, although they really should not be. Fonte has made me put my head in my hands when he has done it a few times without getting pinged. I would certainly like to hear from the authorities the exact position here. 4. A few mins later Lambert was grappled to the ground and then stopped from getting to his feet; he did what anyone would do and stuck his arm out to fend off the pincer movement and the B+HA defender put his face in the way of Lambert's palm and did a dying swan act. I accept point nos 4 was dependable on what was seen when but how can you assault someone when you are lying on your back and trying to stand quickly. D'Urso's decision was so terribly wrong. Add those 4 decisions up and you have the reason why we lost. Personally can't see the point of football any more if you are robbed by poor ref's decisions. I wouldn't mind but is D'Urso going to held account.? I have heard from a few people now that Ricky threw his arm out. It may be unfortunate that this is all that was witnessed and even if there was no contact, but I don't see how D'Urso has done anything wrong there. Sorry just letting off steam. Normally I am a critic of saints but imo we would have won if anyone else but D'Urso was in charge. We must move on - the next month's transfer activity will reveal true intent. What really irks me about all of this is that we had that game for the taking. That must be Brightons weakest team they have put out this season and we were in pole position to capitalise. The only chance Brighton had was to get one of our players sent off and we fell for it hook, line and sinker, followed by all losing the plot thereafter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 You don't blame D'Urso on the one hand and then state that in your opinion he should have awarded a penalty to us and one to them. So perhaps you provide the ammunition yourself for agreeing that his performance in that game was sub-standard. He also missed the Lallana goal. And if he was wrong with those three decisions, why couldn't he be wrong about the Lambert sending off? Yes, there is the letter of the law regarding a player striking another player's face, but as I have argued before, cannot there be a situation of face to hand, in the same way that a hand or arm touching a ball can be deemed to be ball to hand? And isn't El-Adb's action in bringing him down and then preventing him getting up to be considered in mitigation? And how can you say what Lambert's conscious decision was? Can you read his mind? My reading of it was that his conscious decision might well have been to slap the ground in anger and frustration, but that El-Adb got in the way and massively exaggerated the contact to get Lambert sent off. Either D'Urso didn't see what actually led up to what he thought happened, in which case he is guilty of poor refereeing as he was with the Lallana goal, or his judgement was at fault for not realising that by his theatrical play-acting, El-Adb was faking in order to deceive him. All I'm saying is that it's OUR PLAYERS actions which cost us the game, not the referee's. We made 3 costly defensive errors, all which happened to be by Cork (1 also by Davis) In regards to Lambert's red card, D'Urso heard the crowd's noise, turned around and saw Lambert fling his arm back towards El-Abd and make contact with his face, he was left with no choice. Lambert had no need to react the way he did. If he had just got up or stayed on the floor we might have got a free kick, which is in his range of scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes Tender Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 All I'm saying is that it's OUR PLAYERS actions which cost us the game, not the referee's. We made 3 costly defensive errors, all which happened to be by Cork (1 also by Davis) In regards to Lambert's red card, D'Urso heard the crowd's noise, turned around and saw Lambert fling his arm back towards El-Abd and make contact with his face, he was left with no choice. Lambert had no need to react the way he did. If he had just got up or stayed on the floor we might have got a free kick, which is in his range of scoring. You mean that apart from the two penalties he missed and the Lallana goal it wasn't D'Urso who cost us the game. And as you admit that D'Urso only turned round when he heard the crowd baying for blood, as he didn't see what had led up to the incident, perhaps he ought to have consulted his linesman, you know, the one who hadn't seen the Lallana goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I am struggling to move on from yesterday and think we lost because D'Urso made 4 really bad decisions in the first 51 mins. 1. Booking Harding for a really good tackle on C M-S. There was nothing wrong with it, it was hard it was fair and it was not dangerous - so why the booking which then led to more problems 2. Lallana goal that wasn't - just bad incompetance - if you can see a bad tackle that wasn't how come you can't see a goal that was? 3. The penalty when Lambert was pushed - as blatant as I have ever seen and D'Urso had a perfect view. Lambert was about to connect and got a massive shove that was impossible to simulate. 4. A few mins later Lambert was grappled to the ground and then stopped from getting to his feet; he did what anyone would do and stuck his arm out to fend off the pincer movement and the B+HA defender put his face in the way of Lambert's palm and did a dying swan act. I accept point nos 4 was dependable on what was seen when but how can you assault someone when you are lying on your back and trying to stand quickly. D'Urso's decision was so terribly wrong. Add those 4 decisions up and you have the reason why we lost. Personally can't see the point of football any more if you are robbed by poor ref's decisions. I wouldn't mind but is D'Urso going to held account.? Sorry just letting off steam. Normally I am a critic of saints but imo we would have won if anyone else but D'Urso was in charge. We must move on - the next month's transfer activity will reveal true intent. Agree.. The Lallana goal that was'nt was a shockingly bad decision ( almost as bad as Guly's miss), and the sending off was ridiculous as D'Urso allowed himself to be totally conned by El Abd.. No wonder he is regarded as a "oh No not him" ref.. Now the fact that he has been seen a few times in the crowd at the Boleyn Ground would not be a reason - Would it !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 You mean that apart from the two penalties he missed and the Lallana goal it wasn't D'Urso who cost us the game. And as you admit that D'Urso only turned round when he heard the crowd baying for blood, as he didn't see what had led up to the incident, perhaps he ought to have consulted his linesman, you know, the one who hadn't seen the Lallana goal. Well it was a different linesman, they don't swap halves at HT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazlo78 Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 D'Urso is as incompetent and inconsistent as they come and it was a real travesty that we had him referee this particular match knowing how Gus likes his team to play. That said, I'd like to comment on 3 of the 4 incidents you mention (I couldn't see the pen incident in the highlights?!) 1. Booking Harding for a really good tackle on C M-S. There was nothing wrong with it, it was hard it was fair and it was not dangerous - so why the booking which then led to more problems I'm not sure if you are bordering on the common misconception that as long as you even fractionally touch the ball you are allowed to do anything to the opponent (as in "Yes, you touched the ball but you also broke the other guys leg in three places"). Hardings challenge was too dangerous even though he did go for the ball. He carried too much momentum when sweeping towards CMS' legs - even though CMS over-reacted the yellow card could certainly be defended. Great to see Adkins pull him off when Wenger couldn't do the same for Djourou even though he later admitted that he saw it coming (and blamed Fulham for provoking it)! 2. Lallana goal that wasn't - just bad incompetance - if you can see a bad tackle that wasn't how come you can't see a goal that was? Seeing the highlights from the Saints player it's inconclusive to me whether the ball crossed the line or not - simply too few frames in that lo-fi video to see how far in the ball went before getting cleared. Does anyone have any other video or picture to judge by? My gut feeling is 75% chance it was in... 4. A few mins later Lambert was grappled to the ground and then stopped from getting to his feet; he did what anyone would do and stuck his arm out to fend off the pincer movement and the B+HA defender put his face in the way of Lambert's palm and did a dying swan act. This incident I was quite surprised with having read various comments on here. They tangle, get annoyed with each other and fall to the ground. I don't see how El-Abd should have not fallen on Rickie and I don't see how he could have gotten off him any quicker. Again he made a meal of the push, but it was a hard push to the face and the red was IMHO deserved. 100% Rickies fault - there was nothing serious in the incident and he could have pushed El-Abd anywhere but the face and gotten away with it! I just don't get it... All in all, I think we would have won (or at least drawn) with 11 players, but I don't think it was D'Ursos fault that we lost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 D'Urso is as incompetent and inconsistent as they come and it was a real travesty that we had him referee this particular match knowing how Gus likes his team to play. That said, I'd like to comment on 3 of the 4 incidents you mention (I couldn't see the pen incident in the highlights?!) I'm not sure if you are bordering on the common misconception that as long as you even fractionally touch the ball you are allowed to do anything to the opponent (as in "Yes, you touched the ball but you also broke the other guys leg in three places"). Hardings challenge was too dangerous even though he did go for the ball. He carried too much momentum when sweeping towards CMS' legs - even though CMS over-reacted the yellow card could certainly be defended. Great to see Adkins pull him off when Wenger couldn't do the same for Djourou even though he later admitted that he saw it coming (and blamed Fulham for provoking it)! Seeing the highlights from the Saints player it's inconclusive to me whether the ball crossed the line or not - simply too few frames in that lo-fi video to see how far in the ball went before getting cleared. Does anyone have any other video or picture to judge by? My gut feeling is 75% chance it was in... This incident I was quite surprised with having read various comments on here. They tangle, get annoyed with each other and fall to the ground. I don't see how El-Abd should have not fallen on Rickie and I don't see how he could have gotten off him any quicker. Again he made a meal of the push, but it was a hard push to the face and the red was IMHO deserved. 100% Rickies fault - there was nothing serious in the incident and he could have pushed El-Abd anywhere but the face and gotten away with it! I just don't get it... All in all, I think we would have won (or at least drawn) with 11 players, but I don't think it was D'Ursos fault that we lost... Thank you. At least there is someone sensible out there. I don't think anyone is disputing that D'Urso had a bad game, but the REAL reason we lost is because Lambert lost his cool and we couldn't defend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hasper57saint Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Oh! Come on! D'urso is so biased against us that NA should challenge his appointments in any game involving us. Refs do make terrible decisions but for all of you doubters Sky showed the ball had crossed the line and that the cheating BHA wrestler did indeed pull RL to the deck.Had it been me instead of RL I'd have grabbed him by the 'danglies' AKA Vinnie Jones with Gazza. Let's move on. We can only hope the appeal against RL's sending off is succerssful and he's back with us after Coventry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 A Brighton fan mate confirmed that a couple of friends of his who were at the game and at that end of the ground were 100% sure that Lallana's shot fully crossed the line (as TV has proved). Haven't seen any angle yet that shows what I saw clearly at the game - El Abd holding RL around the legs to stop him getting up, though I noticed on the highlights that D'Urso watched the whole thing a close quarters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Saint Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 What realy annoys me is the obvious cheating of one player on a fellow player irrespective of them being on opposite teams. I hate it when one of ours does it and its just as bad when its the opposition. This is no defence of the ref but he was not the one rolling around and holding his face. I'd like to see the scares as evidence for how hard Ricky hit him! Its beginning to put me off watching each week. Perhaps this is something the players union should review? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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