wrong tactics ?,´.. wrong players...?

[david in sweden]

No-one faults Adkins after the whirlwind start to this season, and things really took off when NA brought Chaplow off the bench (v.Derby) which was followed by 6 wins in a 7 match period, and several MOM awards for RC from many fans. After Chaplows injury (Bristol City (a), we seemed to have carried on in successive games with the same formation, but without a natural attacking MF player.

 

Sadly, Lallana hasn't been at his best during this period, and I won't criticise him for that - everyone has off-days, but it became painfully obvious that without the right support... Lambert has struggled to get the same service from the replacements.

 

To his credit, Lambert managed 3 goals in the 6 games he played in, (and Guly also got 3).

 

But whilst NA talks about "changing the play"... it appears that Plan B ..and even Plan C aren't working either..because whatever "system "

we use '... it still revolves around Ricky Lambert. Now we have two problems.

1) No Lambert anyway.. at least for 3 games (thankfully one is Cup game) but also......

2) no alternative strike force, and whatever we do use cannot necessarily follow the same pattern that is "the Lambert model".

Our great start saw Connolly get 4 goals in the first 5 league games, after which the goal activity slowed until Chaplow came in regularly - now he's out.

 

Goodness knows what our front line will look like for the next three weeks, but " the new striker " (who hopefully will appear this week) may not be able to kick-start his Saints career, if he has to "adapt" for the system that seems purpose built for just one player - Ricky Lambert.

I really think it needs a major re-think - if we are to get back on course quickly.

 

The real test of Nigel Adkins "skill" will come this Spring, because losing 16 of the last 24 points, shows " a lack of something" tactically -s peaking when you consider we have the " tremendous squad " that everyone has boasted about this season.

Edited 3 January, 2012 by david in sweden

[Colinjb]

when you consider we have the tremendous squad that everyone has boasted about this season

 

Ah, now, do we?

[Turkish]

Ah, now, do we?

 

It was only 6 weeks ago we were told it was the best one ever. What has happened to the new Barcelona??

[Colinjb]

It was only 6 weeks ago we were told it was the best one ever. What has happened to the new Barcelona??

 

Our recent form has had me questioning that assumption. I fear that weaknesses in our playing staff have been covered up by the good individual form, shrewd tactical set up that the team has been experiencing until recently. Take out Lambert, Fonte, Chaplow and strip Lallana of his form and we all of a sudden have severe difficulties. Poor out wide with low levels of creativity going forward.

 

David's question is an extremely good one... but like all of this nature I suspect there is not one clear answer.

Edited 3 January, 2012 by Colinjb

[del boy]

wrong supporters?

[Legod Third Coming]

Why does losing show a lack of tactical 'something' of any description?

 

Does Alex Ferguson lack tactical nous? He's lost twice as many home games as Adkins so far this season...

 

Wenger? He's lost the same number of games as Adkins...

 

When you consider where we were 18 months ago, recent performances have been nothing short of remarkable.

We are missing key players and others who have been off their game - that's football.

 

Missing Chaplow and an out of form Lallana is huge. Every club would struggle without their best players no matter how robust the squad - even Man City were BEATEN by Sunderland (a terrible team).

 

I think people are over-reacting. Let the manager and Chairman strengthen the team and then let's see where we are.

 

Of course, it could be that a manager who has won more than 63% of games in his charge has suddenly forgotten how to win and we should all mope about in misery...

[Turkish]

Our recent form has had me questioning that assumption. I fear that weaknesses in our playing staff have been covered up by the good individual form, shrewd tactical set up that the team has been experiencing until recently. Take out Lambert, Fonte, Chaplow and strip Lallana of his form and we all of a sudden have severe difficulties. Poor out wide with low levels of creativity going forward.

 

Fonte & Lallana? I'd say "Hoover" (PMSL) and Cork have been more influential recently. lambert has been outstanding most of the season as has Cork & RIchardson, "Hoover" (PMSL) has done well since he's been here. Fonte and Lallana haven't lived up to early season promise.

[Thedelldays]

Fonte & Lallana? I'd say "Hoover" (PMSL) and Cork have been more influential recently. lambert has been outstanding most of the season as has Cork & RIchardson, "Hoover" (PMSL) has done well since he's been here. Fonte and Lallana haven't lived up to early season promise.

agree...I can see fonte being the one dropped should we sign a better CB...also, the billing lallana gets for being the best player outside of the prem is way OTT....

[Colinjb]

Fonte & Lallana? I'd say "Hoover" (PMSL) and Cork have been more influential recently. lambert has been outstanding most of the season as has Cork & RIchardson, "Hoover" (PMSL) has done well since he's been here. Fonte and Lallana haven't lived up to early season promise.

 

Fair comment (not sure about the 'Hoover' nickname though. ) I was just trying to pick out players who had recently been missing or shown a drop in form. No doubt though the Jos and Cork have become very, very important for us.

[badgerx16]

We should be able to cope without RL, as we are always one torn achilles away from losing him for the season.

[ulstersaint]

Fonte is class - very consistent and rarely makes an error. And a great partnership (at last) with Joss, IMO the best since since Claus and Killer.

[Turkish]

Fair comment (not sure about the 'Hoover' nickname though. ) I was just trying to pick out players who had recently been missing or shown a drop in form. No doubt though the Jos and Cork have become very, very important for us.

 

Some our our crazy fans have come up with it. It sounds great when shouted in a broad 'ampshire accent.

 

*"come on 'oover" ROFL's as does everyone in earshot.*

[70's Mike]

as i see it teams have sussed out how we play and NA needs a plan 2 which may involve being a bit more direct.

i think that the squad is not as strong without Jaidi and Seaborne although to be fair neither would get in ahead of the current 2 centre backs. In respect of other positions, other than Harding/Fox, the current starters are just about our best 11(Chaplow would play once fit)

[John B]

agree...I can see fonte being the one dropped should we sign a better CB...also, the billing lallana gets for being the best player outside of the prem is way OTT....

 

The last time I saw Fonte play against Hull he was outstanding.

 

If he had been playing in similar form against Bristol City we would probably have won

[david in sweden]

Our recent form has had me questioning that assumption. I fear that weaknesses in our playing staff have been covered up by the good individual form, shrewd tactical set up that the team has been experiencing until recently. Take out Lambert, Fonte, Chaplow and strip Lallana of his form and we all of a sudden have severe difficulties. Poor out wide with low levels of creativity going forward.

 

David's question is an extremely good one... but like all of this nature I suspect there is not one clear answer.[/quote]

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Glad I'm not the only one who's thought about it Colin, I felt a bit crazy typing it up in the first place, but it really sums up my gut reaction.

 

I go back to Lawrie Mac's old joke about .." 8 road sweepers and 2 ballarinas " . The team work that gives the goal-poachers their opportunities.

 

Lambert is good (at present) but he has no-one to play with.. No Barnard, No Connolly (well not often) .

Whilst our defence is " better than it has been since the Prem.days " - there is still room for improvement, but the midfielders seem well-established and almost to be "cloned " with each other, so that they could easily service... a couple of new strikers in the right way.

I feel happier about our midfield /defence than I do about our one-man strike force. If we sell RL, we get 2-3 others in, and use the best combination.

 

That late 1970's McMemeny squad had a settled backline/midfield for several seasons; Golac. Peach, Holmes, S.Williams, Nicholl / Watson, and Waldron

(in various roles)..but they served a whole succession of different strikers - who came and went; Boyer, MacDougall, Channon (mark2), Keegan, Charlie George, David Armstrong and Steve Moran in the same period.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Think (generally) people need to chill out and stop over analysing. This is a tough competitive league, losing a few key players to injury or loss of form can make a big difference. I watch Watford rip QPR a new one at Loftus Rd last season, they still went on to be Champions.....

[david in sweden]

Think (generally) people need to chill out and stop over analysing. This is a tough competitive league, losing a few key players to injury or loss of form can make a big difference. I watch Watford rip QPR a new one at Loftus Rd last season, they still went on to be Champions.....

 

 

I agree upto a point "saint in southsea", but analysing is an ongoing process (at least according to every interview I've heard from Nigel Adkins) and I

felt we went off the boil very quickly after Chaplow got injured , and the results bear that out. Of course when we are restricted to just buying players in summer and january, you must work with what you got - but it troubled me that we hadn't "extra " striker in the summer. We surely wanted one because it was on the cards and we even bid for Sharp then, (but he didn't come).

The Connolly /Lambert combination gave us a great start, and with Lallana and Guly chipping in, we did score a lot of goals in a short time . NA's tactical changes often worked well, (10 subs. have scored in all comps.) but still no real scoring duo (like RL / DC / LB were last season.)

So here we are with one major goalscorer.. but not for the next three games, and the problem is obvious. Doesn't take a genius to analyse that one.

[DrunkenSaint]

I don't think AL is out of form i think he's a marked man a bit like Bale was at Spurs most of last season which made him look like he wasn't playing as well. He has been given a new lease of life since been given a free role position a bit like Ball (i think) gave to MLT and his game improved so much. Allowing AL do also do this will help us as a team and maybe gain some confidence back in himself and since he can play on either wing and a central role it will suit him down to the ground. Yes we'll need to change the formation and yes maybe we will have to play with 5 midfielders, Barcalona play with 6 midfielders and no out right striker. Will it work? well who knows but as things go atm it's worth a try. As for tactics i think since we've been found out NA tactics have been shocking. Gully's performances have been so bad it's almost like we're playing with 10 men but NA does not see it, yes we're lacking in strikers but like what iv'e just said, try something new, AL could play off Lambert and try someone else down the left, maybe Holmes (yes he's not the best but it's something new) or Fox and try one of our many youngsters at left back if Harding isnt trusted enough. We do have options but NA does not like change or like to risk things. I say this saturday lets play the kids and then he can spot any which can fit into the team straight away.

[alpine_saint]

Sadly, such discussions and questions cannot be started openly on here. As soon as you do, someone says "compared to 18months ago" or "we are top of the league" and everyone who wants to look at such things is expected to STFU.

 

NA has done a great job, but unless NC now has very deep pockets and the contents of which can used to great effect very quickly, this little adventure is at an end.

 

This squad will fragment over the summer, and those remaining are going to take a long time over getting squandering promotion out of their system.

[Frank's cousin]

Simple analysis from my vast football brain: ;-)

 

Start of season - everyone fit and on form = string of great results with NA getting most of ALL squad

Last 7 games - Chappers out, Lambo been in and out, Adam been out and not firing on all cylinders, Conners not up to speed, now Fonte out + other sides have gotten better = dip in results

 

+ NA and NC still LEARNING given their experience and the step up in quality over L1 so it may be talking longer than everyone would like to work out the best way of dealing with the injuries and suspencions and drop in form of key players - and possibly look at the window to bring in some freshness.

 

Not rocket science, just a pragmatic view - and given what we have achieved in 2011 (50 league games, 34 wins, 8 draws and only 8 defeats (110pts)) I imply cant complain - they deserve to be cut a bit of slack and shown 100% support. All the analysis by fans is fun, but not really relevent - sure its clear we dont have the strength in depth to cope with injury and loss of form, but lets see what happens in the transfer window first before we all start revising predictions to those of Daleks doom and gloom.

 

Although we have not played well, we are still creating chances and on another day they go in and we all say its a mark of a great side that can win when not playing well - they dont go in and we several forget what this side has already acheived... come on we are still top of the pile and will get a couple of signings, chappers back and adam will find his form/freedom when RC returns and lets enjoy the run in ride - twists and turns to come, and lets not forget, teh reason we are still top is because others have had the same lack of consistency....

[Village Saint]

No-one faults Adkins after the whirlwind start to this season, and things really took off when NA brought Chaplow off the bench (v.Derby) which was followed by 6 wins in a 7 match period, and several MOM awards for RC from many fans. After Chaplows injury (Bristol City (a), we seemed to have carried on in successive games with the same formation, but without a natural attacking MF player.

 

Sadly, Lallana hasn't been at his best during this period, and I won't criticise him for that - everyone has off-days, but it became painfully obvious that without the right support... Lambert has struggled to get the same service from the replacements.

 

To his credit, Lambert managed 3 goals in the 6 games he played in, (and Guly also got 3).

 

But whilst NA talks about "changing the play"... it appears that Plan B ..and even Plan C aren't working either..because whatever "system "

we use '... it still revolves around Ricky Lambert. Now we have two problems.

1) No Lambert anyway.. at least for 3 games (thankfully one is Cup game) but also......

2) no alternative strike force, and whatever we do use cannot necessarily follow the same pattern that is "the Lambert model".

Our great start saw Connolly get 4 goals in the first 5 league games, after which the goal activity slowed until Chaplow came in regularly - now he's out.

 

Goodness knows what our front line will look like for the next three weeks, but " the new striker " (who hopefully will appear this week) may not be able to kick-start his Saints career, if he has to "adapt" for the system that seems purpose built for just one player - Ricky Lambert.

I really think it needs a major re-think - if we are to get back on course quickly.

 

The real test of Nigel Adkins "skill" will come this Spring, because losing 16 of the last 24 points, shows " a lack of something" tactically -s peaking when you consider we have the " tremendous squad " that everyone has boasted about this season.

 

I agree. Lets sack Adkins now rather than wait for the inevitable decline which he shows he is completely incapable of dealing with. After all he cant even stand in the right place for TV interviews! Lets get Nigel Pearson in - he has completely turned Leicester City round after all. And the only way to get over our complete dependance on Lambert is to sell him now and get in .... God we really are underachieving. I mean with our expensive squad (only 19 clubs have dearer squads in the Division) we really should be top. Oh we are......

[CanadaSaint]

I agree. Lets sack Adkins now rather than wait for the inevitable decline which he shows he is completely incapable of dealing with. After all he cant even stand in the right place for TV interviews! Lets get Nigel Pearson in - he has completely turned Leicester City round after all. And the only way to get over our complete dependance on Lambert is to sell him now and get in .... God we really are underachieving. I mean with our expensive squad (only 19 clubs have dearer squads in the Division) we really should be top. Oh we are......

 

Sadly, that's the sort of junk that represents "discussion" for all-too-many people on here.

 

Do you have a considered response to a thought provoking original post or do you just do sarcasm?

[S-Clarke]

It's simple really, we have no quality in depth.

 

We have depth, but it's not good enough for this level, or the level we're aspiring to be at.

 

Forte and Holmes for e.g are not good enough. So we need to move those on and get players in the squad that are good enough and will push the current first teamers.

 

Our midfield position is great, Chaplow, Morgan, Hammond, Cork - all excellent players who are all pushing to start the game, great competition there and you don't worry if and when you have an injury or suspension because we have very good cover.

 

Same can be said for the full back positions, and centre back to a point, but the area we do not have quality in depth is probably the most important area.....attack.

 

We need another quality goal threat, someone who is genuine quality and good enough to walk into our team. That doesn't mean he will as he'll have to work for it, but it's that sort of competition we need up top otherwise we'll struggle.

 

We've been fortunate up until now, because we've had a pretty fit squad all throughout the season but it's no surprise that our form starts to dip when our key players get injured.

Edited 3 January, 2012 by S-Clarke

[Legod Third Coming]

Sadly, such discussions and questions cannot be started openly on here. As soon as you do, someone says "compared to 18months ago" or "we are top of the league" and everyone who wants to look at such things is expected to STFU.

 

NA has done a great job, but unless NC now has very deep pockets and the contents of which can used to great effect very quickly, this little adventure is at an end.

 

This squad will fragment over the summer, and those remaining are going to take a long time over getting squandering promotion out of their system.

 

This is why people say what they do. Your analysis is barking mad. And the same sort of total guff you and others spouted after a loss or two on our run in last year that apparently handed Huddersfield automatic promotion. Care to compare our current fortunes??

 

Everyone knows football fans are fickle but in four weeks some of ours have gone from thinking we were world beaters to thinking we can't win an egg and spoon race. Doomed Captain Mainwearing, Doomed I tell you...

 

If it wasn't funny it would be pathetic.

 

We're having a bad run - we have an opportunity to fix it.

 

How much did we spend in the last transfer window to take us to the top of the Championship? But now we need to spend a fortune to stay there?? We had fans berating the manager and Chairman for signing an unheard of centre back - apparently the last possible choice we wanted.

 

Where is the balance? The apologies? The humility? The respect??

[Legod Third Coming]

It's simple really, we have no quality in depth.

 

We have depth, but it's not good enough for this level, or the level we're aspiring to be at.

 

Forte and Holmes for e.g are not good enough. So we need to move those on and get players in the squad that are good enough and will push the current first teamers.

 

Our midfield position is great, Chaplow, Morgan, Hammond, Cork - all excellent players who are all pushing to start the game, great competition there and you don't worry if and when you have an injury or suspension because we have very good cover.

 

Same can be said for the full back positions, and centre back to a point, but the area we do not have quality in depth is probably the most important area.....attack.

 

We need another quality goal threat, someone who is genuine quality and good enough to walk into our team. That doesn't mean he will as he'll have to work for it, but it's that sort of competition we need up top otherwise we'll struggle.

 

We've been fortunate up until now, because we've had a pretty fit squad all throughout the season but it's no surprise that our form starts to dip when our key players get injured.

 

Hallelujah.

[david in sweden]

It's simple really, we have no quality in depth.

 

We have depth, but it's not good enough for this level, or the level we're aspiring to be at.

 

Forte and Holmes for e.g are not good enough. So we need to move those on and get players in the squad that are good enough and will push the current first teamers.

 

Our midfield position is great, Chaplow, Morgan, Hammond, Cork - all excellent players who are all pushing to start the game, great competition there and you don't worry if and when you have an injury or suspension because we have very good cover.

Same can be said for the full back positions, and centre back to a point, but the area we do not have quality in depth is probably the most important area.....attack.

 

We need another quality goal threat, someone who is genuine quality and good enough to walk into our team. That doesn't mean he will as he'll have to work for it, but it's that sort of competition we need up top otherwise we'll struggle.

 

We've been fortunate up until now, because we've had a pretty fit squad all throughout the season but it's no surprise that our form starts to dip when our key players get injured.

 

 

 

Agree S.Clarke

..very few of the " second string " are really able to compete for the first team spot. We are overloaded with midfielders who pass the ball well, but they are quite similar and only Chaplow is really an attacking force. What a good job NA brought in Hooiveld..with Jaidi out and Seaborne nowhere near a return, we haven't much cover in central defence.

We had a fantastic start because the players had a good pre-season. Trying to come back from an injury at the halfway point and find form is hard without the same preparation. Lambert hasn't had a proper strike partner all season. Started well with Connolly, Barnard never got fit and Guly seems to vary between a Brazilian footballer and the Invisible Man... from game to game.

Edited 3 January, 2012 by david in sweden

[david in sweden]

I agree. Lets sack Adkins now rather than wait for the inevitable decline which he shows he is completely incapable of dealing with. After all he cant even stand in the right place for TV interviews! Lets get Nigel Pearson in - he has completely turned Leicester City round after all. And the only way to get over our complete dependance on Lambert is to sell him now and get in .... God we really are underachieving. I mean with our expensive squad (only 19 clubs have dearer squads in the Division) we really should be top. Oh we are......

 

think you've missed the point Village saint. I've never gone out saying sack " anybody" . The item you attacked (above) was by way of a response to someone else's earlier post. The thread is not about the teams success, which has been record-breaking, but revolves around the fact that there is little flexibility in the system for those who come in, and the success is based mainly on the goal-scoring record of Ricky Lambert.

 

Even you must admit that without him..we don't have a Plan B. I'm not advocating we sell Ricky Lambert, but colinjb is running a thread based on what if RL were sold for a huge fee?. that refers to that comment.

 

He's going great, but if we sold him the fee would buy a couple of younger replacements. I think you read too much into one post.

[Legod Third Coming]

think you've missed the point Village saint. I've never gone out saying sack " anybody" . The item you attacked (above) was by way of a response to someone else's earlier post. The thread is not about the teams success, which has been record-breaking, but revolves around the fact that there is little flexibility in the system for those who come in, and the success is based mainly on the goal-scoring record of Ricky Lambert.

 

Even you must admit that without him..we don't have a Plan B. I'm not advocating we sell Ricky Lambert, but colinjb is running a thread based on what if RL were sold for a huge fee?. that refers to that comment.

 

He's going great, but if we sold him the fee would buy a couple of younger replacements. I think you read too much into one post.

 

This infuriates me and makes me wonder whether people actually watch us??

 

On Friday night we went from trying to play football to going direct to the front two. This is two different plans. Perhaps they are A and C...???!!!!!!!

[Dalek2003]

Simple analysis from my vast football brain: ;-)

 

Start of season - everyone fit and on form = string of great results with NA getting most of ALL squad

Last 7 games - Chappers out, Lambo been in and out, Adam been out and not firing on all cylinders, Conners not up to speed, now Fonte out + other sides have gotten better = dip in results

 

+ NA and NC still LEARNING given their experience and the step up in quality over L1 so it may be talking longer than everyone would like to work out the best way of dealing with the injuries and suspencions and drop in form of key players - and possibly look at the window to bring in some freshness.

 

Not rocket science, just a pragmatic view - and given what we have achieved in 2011 (50 league games, 34 wins, 8 draws and only 8 defeats (110pts)) I imply cant complain - they deserve to be cut a bit of slack and shown 100% support. All the analysis by fans is fun, but not really relevent - sure its clear we dont have the strength in depth to cope with injury and loss of form, but lets see what happens in the transfer window first before we all start revising predictions to those of Daleks doom and gloom.

 

Although we have not played well, we are still creating chances and on another day they go in and we all say its a mark of a great side that can win when not playing well - they dont go in and we several forget what this side has already acheived... come on we are still top of the pile and will get a couple of signings, chappers back and adam will find his form/freedom when RC returns and lets enjoy the run in ride - twists and turns to come, and lets not forget, teh reason we are still top is because others have had the same lack of consistency....

 

I think this is a very reasoned analysis. I have made it clear since the summer that with a small squad we would eventually run out of steam. I don't know why you think my prediction is one of doom or gloom. I never meant it it to be it was based on hard nosed evidence at the start of the season. I have always maintained that this season was about consolidation and at the end of the day that is I predict, exactly what we will get.

[Dalek2003]

It's simple really, we have no quality in depth.

 

We have depth, but it's not good enough for this level, or the level we're aspiring to be at.

 

Forte and Holmes for e.g are not good enough. So we need to move those on and get players in the squad that are good enough and will push the current first teamers.

 

Our midfield position is great, Chaplow, Morgan, Hammond, Cork - all excellent players who are all pushing to start the game, great competition there and you don't worry if and when you have an injury or suspension because we have very good cover.

 

Same can be said for the full back positions, and centre back to a point, but the area we do not have quality in depth is probably the most important area.....attack.

 

We need another quality goal threat, someone who is genuine quality and good enough to walk into our team. That doesn't mean he will as he'll have to work for it, but it's that sort of competition we need up top otherwise we'll struggle.

 

We've been fortunate up until now, because we've had a pretty fit squad all throughout the season but it's no surprise that our form starts to dip when our key players get injured.

 

Another excellent post. We have a very good nucleus of players. However, they are very tired, Some are out with injuries and I suspect some are carrying knocks that are not enough to keep them out of the team but blunt their effectiveness.

There was a chance to strengthen in the summer, but we did not finish the job properly, probably because we did not feel the need to. I imagine promotion this season was never part of the original plan.

[captainchris]

agree...I can see fonte being the one dropped should we sign a better CB...also, the billing lallana gets for being the best player outside of the prem is way OTT....

 

Lallana is suffering because Fox cannot pass accurately to him. Fox also does support and overlap well so the result is Adam is left with at least two markers on him when eventually the ball comes to him via other players now and then....

[LostBoys]

We have a very good Championship first team - certainly top 6 if not top 2 - but a mid table squad. We have been hard hit by the loss of Chaplow and now others and it is clear that whenever changes are made to 'rest' players etc or tweak the squad the replacements are not good enough. Hence Plan B and Plan C do not work out. As reported on various other threads on the forum we need 4 players in my opinion to secure automatic promotion.

[Legod Third Coming]

We have a very good Championship first team - certainly top 6 if not top 2 - but a mid table squad. We have been hard hit by the loss of Chaplow and now others and it is clear that whenever changes are made to 'rest' players etc or tweak the squad the replacements are not good enough. Hence Plan B and Plan C do not work out. As reported on various other threads on the forum we need 4 players in my opinion to secure automatic promotion.

 

Spot on - but I reckon most other teams (possibly exception of Leicester?) are in the same boat. And unlike them we do have the funds to decide whether we want to invest... Although as has been shown the Chairman will not be held to ransom!

[david in sweden]

This infuriates me and makes me wonder whether people actually watch us??

 

On Friday night we went from trying to play football to going direct to the front two. This is two different plans. Perhaps they are A and C...???!!!!!!!

 

Those comments (go along way back in this thread) and refer to our total reliance on Lambert's firepower, and not just "alternative systems".

 

As it was ....nothing went right on Friday anyway, (or it appears on Monday - when we were forced to play without Lambert).

 

 

My main concern from #1 - was that failing to have secure a striker on loan before November, meant we lost 16 of the following 24 points, and still don't have anyone to play upfront, now that Lambert is suspended for 3 games.

[Dalek2003]

We have a very good Championship first team - certainly top 6 if not top 2 - but a mid table squad. We have been hard hit by the loss of Chaplow and now others and it is clear that whenever changes are made to 'rest' players etc or tweak the squad the replacements are not good enough. Hence Plan B and Plan C do not work out. As reported on various other threads on the forum we need 4 players in my opinion to secure automatic promotion.

 

Again I agree with this analysis. But don't you think the set up was always a reflection of our ambition at the start of the season ?

[Dalek2003]

Spot on - but I reckon most other teams (possibly exception of Leicester?) are in the same boat. And unlike them we do have the funds to decide whether we want to invest... Although as has been shown the Chairman will not be held to ransom!

 

Do we have the funds ? That is the question !

[doddisalegend]

Other than Man city how many clubs have loads of quaility in depth? I'm guessing very few. Any team that loses to many first team players to injuries and suspensions will struggle sometimes you need a bit of luck on top of everything else. There is no doubt we've hit a dodgy patch but it was always going to happen, most people thought we'd be mid table this season now we've been top for a while they seem to think we should be winning every game ripping the league up.

 

This is were Nigel earns his money at the moment I have faith he'll find a way (and if he doesn't I never wanted to be back to the PL anyway). There's no doubt some extra players would help the squad but they have to be top quaility players not a load of squad players/back up players or PL has beens. That's where the problem lays good players cost money (more so in January than the summer) and we have a chairman, who quite rightly, won't gamble with the clubs financial future by overspending on players. It's a hard balancing act the right players at the right price.

[Legod Third Coming]

Those comments (go along way back in this thread) and refer to our total reliance on Lambert's firepower, and not just "alternative systems".

 

As it was ....nothing went right on Friday anyway, (or it appears on Monday - when we were forced to play without Lambert).

 

 

My main concern from #1 - was that failing to have secure a striker on loan before November, meant we lost 16 of the following 24 points, and still don't have anyone to play upfront, now that Lambert is suspended for 3 games.

 

I cannot comment on the Brighton game, but on Friday it wasn't a lack of striking options that cost us the game. I agree we need striking cover, but the recent form owes more to a failure to create the chances that were coming with ease earlier in the season rather than an ability to finish. How much of this is:

 

1. Teams working us out.

2. Lack/loss of key players and form of key players.

3. Hard luck (we had plenty of that on Friday).

 

I couldn't tell you!

 

It is not, however, as simple as saying that a new striker would have meant different results as you assert. Lambert played all those games (and played well in most of them) so a new striker would not have played anyway, unless the arrival of a new striker would have spurred Lambert to score more??

 

Look at the run of results where things have gone wrong and there are some reasons:

 

Doncaster - didn't see it, can't comment.

Portsmouth - should have won, shocking defending, never looked like conceding, Guly, Lallana and Morgan all had chances they would have and did score earlier in the season.

Blackpool - scored twice, enough to win any game. Undone by awful, awful goalkeeping.

Bristol - no control of midfield, no luck with the bounce, undone by best team I've seen at SMS this season. Would a different striker have made a difference? Possibly.

Brighton - think we all know what cost us here and I'm reassured by observers coming back and saying we played well.

 

I am not for a minute saying all of the above is down to bad luck but football operates on wafer thin margins and if all the above were spread out over a season you would say that was life...

 

That's not complacency. We do need to strengthen. Our six game form is 22nd!! But there are other reasons we have not won games that have nothing to do with Lambert.

[doddisalegend]

I cannot comment on the Brighton game, but on Friday it wasn't a lack of striking options that cost us the game. I agree we need striking cover, but the recent form owes more to a failure to create the chances that were coming with ease earlier in the season rather than an ability to finish. How much of this is:

 

1. Teams working us out.

2. Lack/loss of key players and form of key players.

3. Hard luck (we had plenty of that on Friday).

 

I couldn't tell you!

 

It is not, however, as simple as saying that a new striker would have meant different results as you assert. Lambert played all those games (and played well in most of them) so a new striker would not have played anyway, unless the arrival of a new striker would have spurred Lambert to score more??

 

Look at the run of results where things have gone wrong and there are some reasons:

 

Doncaster - didn't see it, can't comment.

Portsmouth - should have won, shocking defending, never looked like conceding, Guly, Lallana and Morgan all had chances they would have and did score earlier in the season.

Blackpool - scored twice, enough to win any game. Undone by awful, awful goalkeeping.

Bristol - no control of midfield, no luck with the bounce, undone by best team I've seen at SMS this season. Would a different striker have made a difference? Possibly.

Brighton - think we all know what cost us here and I'm reassured by observers coming back and saying we played well.

 

I am not for a minute saying all of the above is down to bad luck but football operates on wafer thin margins and if all the above were spread out over a season you would say that was life...

 

That's not complacency. We do need to strengthen. Our six game form is 22nd!! But there are other reasons we have not won games that have nothing to do with Lambert.

 

Actual I'd say it's the other way round we're still creating chances we're not putting them away, it's not so much the strikers (if you count Guly as a striker) but the midfielders who are at fault. Hammond, Morgan, Cork and now Adam are not scoring anything. Dean's scored 1 this season, Morgan has missed (it seems) dozens of chances this season, Cork yet to score Adam started of brightly but the goals have dried up. we need to get the midfield chipping in with some goals to take the pressure of the strike force. We're making chances but were not being as clinical in front of goal anymore.

 

Someone who can bang in free kicks would be nice to.

[Dalek2003]

Our 6 game form puts us 22nd, makes my prediction of 17th look optomistic !

[Legod Third Coming]

Actual I'd say it's the other way round we're still creating chances we're not putting them away, it's not so much the strikers (if you count Guly as a striker) but the midfielders who are at fault. Hammond, Morgan, Cork and now Adam are not scoring anything. Dean's scored 1 this season, Morgan has missed (it seems) dozens of chances this season, Cork yet to score Adam started of brightly but the goals have dried up. we need to get the midfield chipping in with some goals to take the pressure of the strike force. We're making chances but were not being as clinical in front of goal anymore.

 

Someone who can bang in free kicks would be nice to.

 

Hmm, can you point to clear chances missed? Take the first half of the season and we genuinely could have scored 6 goals in most games. In truth we didn't create a single clear cut chance on Friday night that was missed. The movement that created the chances, the slick interplay that was impossible to defend, that simply isn't there in the three or four recent games I've seen... Although I agree the half chances (Adam's, Morgan's and Guly's against Pompey, for example) were all poorly executed and we should simply have a dip more often!!

[Legod Third Coming]

Our 6 game form puts us 22nd, makes my prediction of 17th look optomistic !

 

Use this website, it's superb.

 

It tells you we are the best team at home against top half sides, but currently 22nd on form...

 

The link is to the same championship table on 3rd January 2011.

 

Then QPR were five clear with 48 points of Norwich and Swansea on 43. So, all we need is history to repeat itself...

 

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2010-2011/table/2011-01-03

[david in sweden]

I couldn't tell you!

 

It is not, however, as simple as saying that a new striker would have meant different results as you assert. Lambert played all those games (and played well in most of them) so a new striker would not have played anyway, unless the arrival of a new striker would have spurred Lambert to score more??

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't think I said it would have changed the results - did I?

 

what I did repeat was, that had we had an extra (loan) striker it might have made the difference, as he would certainly have got on the pitch at some stage - instead of some of the non-sensical subbings that were made instead, and a "genuine" striker might have netted a few times, especially as you so rightly assert above)..... the rest of our side seem to have the inability to do so !

 

We also might have still had /or / even signed the player - who would at least have been introduced and PERHAPS even trained with the rest of the squad, very unfortunate as Lambert (now suspended) was our only in-form striker .

Edited 3 January, 2012 by david in sweden

[Legod Third Coming]

I couldn't tell you!

 

It is not, however, as simple as saying that a new striker would have meant different results as you assert. Lambert played all those games (and played well in most of them) so a new striker would not have played anyway, unless the arrival of a new striker would have spurred Lambert to score more??

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

I don't think I said it would have changed the results - did I?

 

what I did repeat was, that had we had an extra (loan) striker it might have made the difference, as he would certainly have got on the pitch at some stage - instead of some of the non-sensical subbings that were made instead, and a "genuine" striker might have netted a few times, especially as you so rightly assert above)..... the rest of our side seem to have the inability to do so !

 

We also might have still had /or / even signed the player - who would at least have been introduced and PERHAPS even trained with the rest of the squad, very unfortunate as Lambert (now suspended) was our only in-form striker .

 

This is what you said:

 

My main concern from #1 - was that failing to have secure a striker on loan before November, meant we lost 16 of the following 24 points

 

So what else could it have meant other than it would have changed results?????

 

And I repeat my belief that having that striker was not the reason we lost 16 of those 24 points. For some of those games Barnard was available and not selected/used. For others we scored and still lost/drew.

Yes, another striker may have got onto the pitch but Lambert was available and playing well for those games, so having back-up for him was not the reason we didn't win them.

[david in sweden]

 

This is what you said:

 

My main concern from #1 - was that failing to have secure a striker on loan before November, meant we lost 16 of the following 24 points

 

So what else could it have meant other than it would have changed results?????

 

And I repeat my belief that having that striker was not the reason we lost 16 of those 24 points. For some of those games Barnard was available and not selected/used. For others we scored and still lost/drew.

Yes, another striker may have got onto the pitch but Lambert was available and playing well for those games, so having back-up for him was not the reason we didn't win them.

 

OK..sorry. I accept my head got ahead of my typing and I missed a meaning, but despite that - Lambert scored in only 2 of those 7 games.

Up until the defeat at Bristol, we had not failed to score in any League game,.... since then, we have not scored in 4 of the last 8.

 

Barnard was "available" and on the bench. He got on four times in a month - often for very short time and made no noticeable impact.

I think it was a gesture and NA probably knew he wasn't up to it. After that, his injury worsened and now he is out for another two months (min.)

 

I still maintain an "on loan " striker would certainly got on the pitch ahead of Holmes or even Forte. It has become blatantly obvious that we are over dependent on Ricky Lambert... and there are no logical alternatives until we sign someone (hopefully this week) and I hope he arrives in a taxi - in case he can't find his way to the ground, and that he has time to be introduced to the rest of the squad before travelling to Coventry.

Edited 3 January, 2012 by david in sweden

[Whitey Grandad]

The situation definitely gives cause for concern and everybody can agree that with injuries and suspensions we are short of a player or three, but let's remember that a couple of simple goalkeeping errors have cost us three points and if we had those, things would be looking a lot brighter.

 

But we don't, so we need some reinforcements.

[david in sweden]

We should be able to cope without RL, as we are always one torn achilles away from losing him for the season.

 

 

EXACTLY....and pretty da*n quick, too. Our whole playing system is designed to suit one player..RL.

[saintbob40]

I saw enough in the first half v Brighton to remain optimistic. Lambert was stupid to put himself in the position where the ref had to make a decision, albeit the wrong one. But for the sending off this thread would not exist as we would have beaten Brighton comfortably and now be three points clear at the top of the league. An individual error not a crumbling edifice.

 

We do lack a "target man" back up though......

[John B]

I saw enough in the first half v Brighton to remain optimistic. Lambert was stupid to put himself in the position where the ref had to make a decision, albeit the wrong one. But for the sending off this thread would not exist as we would have beaten Brighton comfortably and now be three points clear at the top of the league. An individual error not a crumbling edifice.

 

We do lack a "target man" back up though......

 

Eight Points from Eight Games may represent a crumbling edifice but lets decide that after the next five league games

[Legod Third Coming]

EXACTLY....and pretty da*n quick, too. Our whole playing system is designed to suit one player..RL.

 

I genuinely have to ask if you watch us play often?

 

Under Pardew what you describe is right, but it fundamentally isn't the case now.

 

Lambert scores goals because he is a superb footballer. But that's like saying our defence relies on Kelvin being a good goalkeeper.

 

If you had another Rickie Lambert he wouldn't get in the side unless Rickie#1 was injured. We need striking options because of injury not because we are reliant on one player.

 

At the start of last season when Adkins arrived and it was clear his game was pass and move, there were many (me included) who questioned whether Lambert could adapt to this style. Because in the previous season he had been a Grade A Premium Target Man. Rickie had adapated brilliantly because he is a class player with a great brain.

 

So you have an issue. Are you asking for a direct replacement so we can play the same way (you think) which is designed to suit Lambert? Or are you asking for options to play another way??

 

I agree 100% with you we need more depth. But you simply do not go out and buy Rooney#2, Messi#2 or Lambert#2. I would love for Silva and Aguero to be injured at Man Citeh so people could understand how important a team's best players are and that there will be an inevitable dip in the team's form if the best players are either injured or off their game.