*Halo* Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Well, it's all seemingly calmed down a bit now since full time, so I left it for a few hours before deciding whether to post this or not. But the sentiments behind the message still apply, so it's going up anyway. This post is certainly not intended to cause any offence, but rather, for some to perhaps reflect upon, after the initial red mist has faded. What is it with internet message boards, eh? It's like a primary school playground on here sometimes. A lot of the time actually. Now, to be fair, if we do actually have a high proportion of 5-9 year olds posting here, then that would actually go a long way towards explaining a lot of the behaviour that I witness on a weekly basis. And if that is the case, stroppy little toy throwing temper tantrums are perhaps a little more acceptable, from those who lack the maturity to know better. I find it truly incredible at times, the infantile, puerile drivel that often gets spouted, in the name of 'defending' an 'opinion'. We're all Saint fans, and in our own ways, all supporting the same team, but I tell you, as a rare poster on the 'outside' looking in; you wouldn't know it most of the time. A fair proportion of you sit there behind your keyboards, verbally tearing each-other to pieces, launching all manner of utterly unnecessary spiteful attacks on one-another, and for what? Because someone is having the temerity to not happen to agree with your perspective? It is truly ridiculous at times. Like a pack of wild dogs, fighting over a scrap of meat. A playground free-for-all, b!tching and biting, clawing and scratching, squabbling, swearing and calling each other names. "Oh but he started it miss!" So, what, that means that you have to sink to the same level? Do we really have a bunch of little school kids posting here, or, do we just have a certain collection of supposedly grown men, who lack the collective maturity and basic self control to act in a fashion befitting of rational adults? That's almost an insult to some children actually on my part, as to be fair, my little nephews and nieces are generally better behaved than some of you lot after a Saints defeat. Sure, I'm sat here listening on Solent tonight, and I'm absolutely gutted at the outcome of today's result. Equally, I'm becoming increasingly concerned at the general pattern of mostly below par performances recently. But do you find me on the the match reaction thread, spitting bile and hurling around childish insults at my fellow Saints fans for having the audacity to see things differently than me? No, of course you don't. I'm an adult, with a measure of self control, enough self respect to not wish to present myself for all to see as a whining emotional wreck, and enough respect of others to have no desire to rip them a new one, simply for not sharing my opinion. If I was Admin, I would seriously consider locking the forum for 90 minutes following a Saints match, just to allow everyone the cool off time clearly required, to be responsible enough to come on and share a measured opinion, without the need to hurl abuse at your footballing kin. Apart from the odd trolling skate here or there, we're all Southampton. How about having a go at behaving like we actually support the same team; and next time a fellow Saint happens to say something you don't like, how about pausing for a moment before you start thrashing away at your keyboard, to remind yourself that you're actually not six years old anymore, and as such, should be perfectly capable of formulating an even tempered, rational and maybe even respectful reply? Or, having paused for consideration, if there's still no possibility of you retaining your composure, how about rising above the bait, and just not saying anything at all? If the comment you don't like is so bad, shouldn't you really be so far beyond it, that it doesn't even register a blip on your radar? To be fair, we are talking about a relatively small minority that start things kicking off, throwing in some inflammatory rhetoric, but time and again, otherwise mostly very good posters get suckered into responding, and allow yourselves to be dragged down to that same level. And yet another round of good old internet flame warfare ensues. It is quite sad to watch really, as for the most part, you're a good bunch of guys at heart, and you all absolutely no doubt, care passionately about Our Team. Some could just do with developing thicker skins, and learning not to react, is all. In drawing to a close, I would offer that, if for some reason, any of my words here give rise to any feelings of anger or resentment in you, that you're probably one of the ones they are intended for in the first place, so it will be interesting to gauge from the form any responses take on, whether or not they've hit home. Needless to say, should any of the kind of behaviour highlighted in the above text, be observed occurring in this topic, it will rightly be treated with the silence it deserves. Wishing you all a Happy New (hopefully Promotion Winning) Year, my fellow Saints. And by way of a "resolution"? Please try to remember that we're all on the same side. Or at least, we're meant to be anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avenue Saint Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Easy to call a long post a "good" one on here but that was a very good post from an evidently genuine, passionate but considerate fan! What I would add however is that the purpose of a wum or a skate trolling isn't just to cause enmity between fans on some level, it's also to lend a destructive opinion in the guise of a rationale fan's reasoned post. If these posts are left unchallenged in a reasonable way, the freedom allowed to those posters could allow them success in infiltrating the "common" mindset of fans on some level or scale. An attempt to turn opinion on our successful manager could be one such example. A little dramatic but credence must be given to the old adage, "evil prevails when good men sit back and do nothing" On that note, TO WAR WITH YOU SAINTSWEB TROLLS! ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickG Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Good post. Look at these two links just 15 1/2 months apart sum it up very simply for me - please take a moment to open them; http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/LeagueTable/0,,10280~20100915,00.html http://www.saintsfc.co.uk/page/LeagueTable/0,,10280~20120102,00.html Cortese and Adkins have moved this club forward every window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Honestly the setiment is good.......but this message board is really no different to pretty much every message board I've gone on. It doesn't matter whether it's football,woodworking,model making, politics or music the internet has a way of turnning people into someone they aren't really like in real life ....internet warriors abound in this day and age. As for saints people deal with the good and the bad in different ways. As you say were all saints fans (and want the best for the club) and it would be nice if we all got along.....but lets face it's never going to happen...if you want sweetness and light (and good reasoned debate) all the time the internet isn't the place to look for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Good post. The idea of locking the forum for 90mins after full time has its pros and cons. I didnt think at first it might work, but then I realised that yesterday just before the second half kicked off, I left work and drove home. This meant by the time I got back on my PC to see the score it was already 3-0. Since I only just got home, I walked away and gave my wife and kids some attention for half hour before coming back. By then my response was much more muted than usual and less inflamatory. However, open warfare has usually kicked off on here well before full time, so I am not sure it will always be successful. I dont understand the personal abuse dished out when someone dares to point out, that yes, we've made progress, but it counts for naught if at the end of the season we've blown our commanding promotion position. Some of us have been saying that this was risk because of lack of squad depth, all the bay back from the summer. What angers the abusers the most, that we point it out so often because we are frustrated at nothing being done, or that we are being ultimately proven right ?? Dont they get it that this "negative" perspective is OUR take on where the team is and that we care just as much as them ??? All this "go and support Pompey" or "you must be a Skate/Troll/WUM" is not just offensive it is down right incorrect. I have posted 17500 times on this site since its resurrection; why would I do that as a sick joke, FFS ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint michael Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Good sentiment. Sadly I think it is the same in the stadium these days. Banter seems to have been replaced by anger (and I mean between our own fans) and the atmosphere is incredibly different from when I first started watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgeweahscousin Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 The scoreline makes yesterday's result seem disastrous, but we were the better team while both teams had 11 players. People need to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DT Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Huh. I'm disgusted that we are still top. DISGUSTED, I tell you. *polishes irony hat* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 The big factor which is missing on internet discussions is 'body language' ! If we were all down the pub having the same chat you can be assured that it would all be much more civilised ! It is so easy to isolate and highlight one part of a sentence (I've often done it myself!) and spread an argument completely out of the overall context ! Hell, I think I could even be mates with Alpine in the right situation, (well maybe, eh ??) Happy new year to one and all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 I was going to post yesterday but thought it unworthwhile. I wrote a list: Queens Shot Moron Cock A goldfish Idiot Just some of the labels / ideas that were bandied about yesterday, just because some posters had differing views to others. It's very offensive and pretty much puts me off wanting to interact here anymore. Very good post btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy_D Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 Lowe out ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintAndy14 Posted 3 January, 2012 Share Posted 3 January, 2012 The big factor which is missing on internet discussions is 'body language' ! If we were all down the pub having the same chat you can be assured that it would all be much more civilised ! It is so easy to isolate and highlight one part of a sentence (I've often done it myself!) and spread an argument completely out of the overall context ! Hell, I think I could even be mates with Alpine in the right situation, (well maybe, eh ??) Happy new year to one and all Very true actually! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
los_saint Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Are these rude? Shot A goldfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tttdcs Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Good post. The idea of locking the forum for 90mins after full time has its pros and cons. I didnt think at first it might work, but then I realised that yesterday just before the second half kicked off, I left work and drove home. This meant by the time I got back on my PC to see the score it was already 3-0. Since I only just got home, I walked away and gave my wife and kids some attention for half hour before coming back. By then my response was much more muted than usual and less inflamatory. However, open warfare has usually kicked off on here well before full time, so I am not sure it will always be successful. I dont understand the personal abuse dished out when someone dares to point out, that yes, we've made progress, but it counts for naught if at the end of the season we've blown our commanding promotion position. Some of us have been saying that this was risk because of lack of squad depth, all the bay back from the summer. What angers the abusers the most, that we point it out so often because we are frustrated at nothing being done, or that we are being ultimately proven right ?? Dont they get it that this "negative" perspective is OUR take on where the team is and that we care just as much as them ??? All this "go and support Pompey" or "you must be a Skate/Troll/WUM" is not just offensive it is down right incorrect. I have posted 17500 times on this site since its resurrection; why would I do that as a sick joke, FFS ??? Nice one "Alpine Saint" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 What I miss is some of the posters with a football background that can't really be bothered with it any more. Teddy Nutkins an ex Saint and Clifford Nelson just to name two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Balls Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 I think the OP should post more often. There seems to be some very good posters on here who just dont post very often (Something to do with £5 I'd imagine) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank's cousin Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Good post. The idea of locking the forum for 90mins after full time has its pros and cons. I didnt think at first it might work, but then I realised that yesterday just before the second half kicked off, I left work and drove home. This meant by the time I got back on my PC to see the score it was already 3-0. Since I only just got home, I walked away and gave my wife and kids some attention for half hour before coming back. By then my response was much more muted than usual and less inflamatory. However, open warfare has usually kicked off on here well before full time, so I am not sure it will always be successful. I dont understand the personal abuse dished out when someone dares to point out, that yes, we've made progress, but it counts for naught if at the end of the season we've blown our commanding promotion position. Some of us have been saying that this was risk because of lack of squad depth, all the bay back from the summer. What angers the abusers the most, that we point it out so often because we are frustrated at nothing being done, or that we are being ultimately proven right ?? Dont they get it that this "negative" perspective is OUR take on where the team is and that we care just as much as them ??? All this "go and support Pompey" or "you must be a Skate/Troll/WUM" is not just offensive it is down right incorrect. I have posted 17500 times on this site since its resurrection; why would I do that as a sick joke, FFS ??? Good post. The idea of locking the forum for 90mins after full time has its pros and cons. I didnt think at first it might work, but then I realised that yesterday just before the second half kicked off, I left work and drove home. This meant by the time I got back on my PC to see the score it was already 3-0. Since I only just got home, I walked away and gave my wife and kids some attention for half hour before coming back. By then my response was much more muted than usual and less inflamatory. However, open warfare has usually kicked off on here well before full time, so I am not sure it will always be successful. I dont understand the personal abuse dished out when someone dares to point out, that yes, we've made progress, but it counts for naught if at the end of the season we've blown our commanding promotion position. Some of us have been saying that this was risk because of lack of squad depth, all the bay back from the summer. What angers the abusers the most, that we point it out so often because we are frustrated at nothing being done, or that we are being ultimately proven right ?? Dont they get it that this "negative" perspective is OUR take on where the team is and that we care just as much as them ??? All this "go and support Pompey" or "you must be a Skate/Troll/WUM" is not just offensive it is down right incorrect. I have posted 17500 times on this site since its resurrection; why would I do that as a sick joke, FFS ??? Good Post! Thing is alps it seems to me that the 'negative' is often highlighted when its not actually necessary. As an example (and I am not having a go here), on a thread yesterday, you were making a very valid point about what would happen if we dont get promoted - with players leaving etc and being left with those that would be very demotivated - all possibly very true, but if you look at it with a more glass half full perspective, you could argue the same point more productively - eg. Yes its possible that if we are not quite there yet, we may struggle for the rest of the season, which may see players like Lallana leave - and we could not blame him. However, we are only 3 years into the 5 year plan and whilst we have seen what in our eyes are 'mistakes', its also part of the learning process for the squad, NC and NA. We know they are relatively inexperienced at this level and whatever happens this season, they will learn a lot about what it takes to go up - It may mean it takes a couple of seasons to rebuild and get promoted, but as we saw with Lawrie Mac after we were relegated from the old L1, we came back stronger from the learning experience. I guess I am not so much frustrated by folk being angry at defeat, afterall no one likes it, but perhaps the medium of the web site, as others allude to robs us of the 'pub discussion' and makes many sound so fickle - add to that that there appears to be such a 'want it now and nothing else will do' attitude to promotion which is never guarranteed even if we spend 15 mil in January (look at the likes of Leicester) and its seems at times as if some fans are rejoicing more in the 'I told you so' than feeling bad about the defeats/current slump... its that which comes across in many of the 'negative posts' from some that leads to such bitter repostes. If for example Dalek had said at the start of the campaign that in his opinion he would be happy with consolidation and mid table and anything else was a bonus and he meant it, he would be surely have been exstatic at being top - but instead so many threads are infested with a kind of gloating that he may be proven right rather... relishing the defeats to prove a point, because he still has some odd obsession with Hoddle.... I think there is room for the passionate swings in emotion from when we win to when we lose - its what fans have been doing for years, but without the benefit of a pint and body language, the laughter when mates disagree, forum posts appear very transparent and are so easily open to misinterpretation as well... I am just as guilty as everyone else, but will try harder ;-) Congrats on the No.4 due in the spring by the way - Alpine air must be good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 4 January, 2012 Share Posted 4 January, 2012 Are these rude? I believe they were used in the context that any poster who failed to agree with the orginators own view point; should be shot is a (shows the intellect of) goldfish As I said before, rude and offensive. Possibly it is just culmination of continued such comments which when aggregated makes the overall effect worse. Either way, for me it's pretty needless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Halo* Posted 5 January, 2012 Author Share Posted 5 January, 2012 Thanks for your replies; appreciate all of them, and will just use a few to reflect upon: What I would add however is that the purpose of a wum or a skate trolling isn't just to cause enmity between fans on some level, it's also to lend a destructive opinion in the guise of a rationale fan's reasoned post. If these posts are left unchallenged in a reasonable way, the freedom allowed to those posters could allow them success in infiltrating the "common" mindset of fans on some level or scale. And therein (bolded) lies the crucial key. The 'crux' of the matter, as it were. Unfortunately, for as long as the kind of behaviour highlighted in the OP is deemed to be "reasonable" enough to engage in (by some), the current status quo would seem destined to remain intact. Thanks for your thoughtful reply. Honestly the sentiment is good.......but this message board is really no different to pretty much every message board I've gone on. It doesn't matter whether it's football,woodworking,model making, politics or music... I would tend to mostly agree with your statement, though I have also enjoyed the privilege of membership at certain forums where the general overall feeling (or 'mood') is more one of mutual respect. Disagreement is (of course) absolutely fine, (and a perfectly normal part of interaction within daily life). Being disrespectful in one's disagreement however, is not. It is eminently possible to even vehemently disagree with another's premise, and yet retain your personal dignity and composure whilst expressing your disagreement. Personally, I like to follow that old golden rule of debate: Kick the ball, not the player. (Brighton and Hove Albion, please take note. ) the internet has a way of turning people into someone they aren't really like in real life... Ahh, you see; now is it really "the internet"'s fault? Or is it not more a case of the people using it, failing to take personal responsibility for their own actions and behaviour, whilst using said means of electronic communication. I think you know the answer to this most pivotal (and rhetorical) question my friend. The big factor which is missing on internet discussions is 'body language' ! Absolutely. And to a degree, we have been provided with these things called 'emoticons' to help us to get our 'body language' / 'intent' / 'expression' across. Though the impression I seem to get from many internet users, is that using them is not considered a "manly" thing to do, (except for in 'exceptional' circumstances); and therefore such 'body language' often remains absent, as you indicate. I would personally rather ensure that my meaning is not lost in translation, than appear 'manly' on the internet. So I use quite a few of them. If we were all down the pub having the same chat you can be assured that it would all be much more civilised ! Unless of course, you happened to be drinking in North Baddesley. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Online_disinhibition_effect Very good article. Thanks for adding it Jimmy. I think the OP should post more often. There seems to be some very good posters on here who just dont post very often (Something to do with £5 I'd imagine) Thanks mate, nice of you to say that. I used to post a fair bit more, back in the S4E days; but even then, I still would not exactly have called myself prolific. I guess the fiver may play a part, but only in a very small way. And that mainly being, that I rarely even use my three posts a day anyway, so there just isn't really the need. I did pay for my own set of "Golden Balls" ( ) incidentally, back on S4E when I posted more, but it was a different, and much 'lighter' environment to contribute in back then. I think if I was paying a fiver to post, it may to some extent lead to a feeling of needing to post more, to "get my money's worth"; but then I'd just be posting for the sake of it, and not because I feel I have anything particular of any great value to contribute. I'm not really a particularly talkative person, on the net, or in 'real life'. I only tend to speak if I feel I can add something, perhaps (for example) a different perspective or understanding that has not until that point been offered. I enjoy reading, and I like to hear what everyone else has to say. I don't tend to feel the need to post if someone else has already covered my own views, even if maybe not quite in the same manner I may have chosen to express it myself. I'm not really a "yeah, me too" kind of person, you could say. So that's my main reasons for not posting much, yet, I may indeed feel a little more inclined to, in a, shall we say, 'less hostile' environment. I don't really do 'discord' very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 5 January, 2012 Share Posted 5 January, 2012 What angers the abusers the most, that we point it out so often because we are frustrated at nothing being done, or that we are being ultimately proven right ?? Not generally an "abuser" but in case your query is genuine I would advise that what angers people is: a) The assertion that "nothing is being done" b) The inference you are somehow "being proved right" when we turn out not to be the Greatest Team The World Has Ever Seen, which is a prediction that if you had made in a sensible manner (i.e without suggesting that this was entirely due to gross mis-management of the club) no-one would have quarrelled with in the first place. With love, Bearsy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 5 January, 2012 Share Posted 5 January, 2012 What annoys me Alpine is how downright insulting you can be for no reason when someone has been perfectly civil to you. The unwarranted agressive language is unneeded and provokes an equally agressive response more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st.sj Posted 5 January, 2012 Share Posted 5 January, 2012 Good post. The idea of locking the forum for 90mins after full time has its pros and cons. I didnt think at first it might work, but then I realised that yesterday just before the second half kicked off, I left work and drove home. This meant by the time I got back on my PC to see the score it was already 3-0. Since I only just got home, I walked away and gave my wife and kids some attention for half hour before coming back. By then my response was much more muted than usual and less inflamatory. However, open warfare has usually kicked off on here well before full time, so I am not sure it will always be successful. I dont understand the personal abuse dished out when someone dares to point out, that yes, we've made progress, but it counts for naught if at the end of the season we've blown our commanding promotion position. Some of us have been saying that this was risk because of lack of squad depth, all the bay back from the summer. What angers the abusers the most, that we point it out so often because we are frustrated at nothing being done, or that we are being ultimately proven right ?? Dont they get it that this "negative" perspective is OUR take on where the team is and that we care just as much as them ??? All this "go and support Pompey" or "you must be a Skate/Troll/WUM" is not just offensive it is down right incorrect. I have posted 17500 times on this site since its resurrection; why would I do that as a sick joke, FFS ??? Funniest reply ever and I bet you dont even know it. Comedy gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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