Jonnyboy Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/30/uk-rail-season-tickets-europe Rail season tickets cost up to 10 times more in UK than elsewhere in Europe www.guardian.co.ukA season ticket for a 22-mile journey from Surrey to London costs £3,268, compared to £336 for a similar journey in Italy.
dune Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 No wonder Italy is almost bankrupt. To keep prices that low must mean huge subsidies.
trousers Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/dec/30/uk-rail-season-tickets-europe Rail season tickets cost up to 10 times more in UK than elsewhere in Europe www.guardian.co.ukA season ticket for a 22-mile journey from Surrey to London costs £3,268, compared to £336 for a similar journey in Italy. 31 pence a mile to get into work for a well paid job.....bargain
Wes Tender Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Another rip-off I've just encountered; Just booking flight tickets for the family and when it comes to paying for it, there is a 2.5% charge for paying by credit card. That comes to £52.99 and bears no relationship to the cost of administration, especially when all the form-filling is done online. Apparently there is a campaign currently to outlaw these sorts of charges and also to make it clear at the outset what they are, instead of at the payment stage.
1976_Child Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 I have a mate who went to buy tickets to a sporting event on the south coast and was charged for parking his car as well.
dune Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Another rip-off I've just encountered; Just booking flight tickets for the family and when it comes to paying for it, there is a 2.5% charge for paying by credit card. That comes to £52.99 and bears no relationship to the cost of administration, especially when all the form-filling is done online. Apparently there is a campaign currently to outlaw these sorts of charges and also to make it clear at the outset what they are, instead of at the payment stage. One of my biggest pet hates. They don't just charge for credit cards, but debit cards too.
Jonnyboy Posted 30 December, 2011 Author Posted 30 December, 2011 One of my biggest pet hates. They don't just charge for credit cards, but debit cards too. To keep budget airlines prices low, extra fees are probably required.
Jonnyboy Posted 30 December, 2011 Author Posted 30 December, 2011 31 pence a mile to get into work for a well paid job.....bargain Even better for the Parisian who pays 3.1 pence per mile :-p
trousers Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Even better for the Parisian who pays 3.1 pence per mile :-p He doesn't pay just that though....he pays for the difference indirectly via taxation....indeed, even those that don't use a subsidised train service end up paying for it indirectly via taxation...our system of paying for it all at the point of use is much fairer....unless you want a lower bracket tax payer to subsidise the stockbroker on his journey to work....? ;-)
Jonnyboy Posted 30 December, 2011 Author Posted 30 December, 2011 But we pay subsidies to the rail network AND pay higher fares.
trousers Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 But we pay subsidies to the rail network AND pay higher fares. How do the overall net figures compare with other countries? (I don't doubt we're one of the highest net contributers BTW). To put things into perspective though, it would also be worthwhile comparing the average wage of the average commuter on that 22 mile round trip between London and Surrey with the comparable figures you are quoting from Italy and France. That way you can work out who is 'poorer' overall as a result of their commute into work (i.e. result = income - (tax subsidy + fare)) Always best to compare apples with apples I say...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 How do the overall net figures compare with other countries? (I don't doubt we're one of the highest net contributers BTW). To put things into perspective though, it would also be worthwhile comparing the average wage of the average commuter on that 22 mile round trip between London and Surrey with the comparable figures you are quoting from Italy and France. That way you can work out who is 'poorer' overall as a result of their commute into work (i.e. result = income - (tax subsidy + fare)) Always best to compare apples with apples I say... Don't know about Italy but the SNCF makes a profit, about 600 million Euros for the year 2010. Obviously there have been vast subsidies in the past which probably paid off the infrastructure and we'll be paying the Mitterand tax on 1980s rail pensions for ever but the new streamlined SNCF makes money,a lot of it from Eurostar,Thalys and Lyria but the "proximity sector" ie commuter trains makes some as well. As you can deduct your to work travel expenses from your tax return it's a win,win situation anyway.A good part of the profits go back into the state treasury as well.
Verbal Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 31 pence a mile to get into work for a well paid job.....bargain If you were a turkey you'd vote for Christmas. Odd.
Verbal Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 But we pay subsidies to the rail network AND pay higher fares. Indeed - the staggering fares cover 69% of the cost per mile on rail journeys in Britain. Contrast this with road users in the UK, who pay a mere 21% of the true per-mile cost of their journey.
sotonist Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 To keep budget airlines prices low, extra fees are probably required. to keep advertised prices low it is necessary to take the balance in hidden fees. yes.
pap Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Indeed - the staggering fares cover 69% of the cost per mile on rail journeys in Britain. Contrast this with road users in the UK, who pay a mere 21% of the true per-mile cost of their journey. How much is the true cost per mile supposed to be? How did they determine it?
Verbal Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 How much is the true cost per mile supposed to be? How did they determine it? Cost at point of sale + subsidy.
buctootim Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 How much is the true cost per mile supposed to be? How did they determine it? By adding in all the things that weren't added in before but leaving out all the other things that didnt give the ansswer they wanted.
buctootim Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Someone needs to have the balls to tax cars based on miles travelled rather than simple ownership - a much fairer system. Will have all kinds of positive implications for employment and housing too.
norwaysaint Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 I'm always surprised at how much you have to pay for the train in Britain and I live in a stupidly expensive country.
Window Cleaner Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Someone needs to have the balls to tax cars based on miles travelled rather than simple ownership - a much fairer system. Will have all kinds of positive implications for employment and housing too. they do, it's in the petrol or diesel cost.
St Chalet Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Reading to London is £4.2k per year for me at present, 6% will add another £200 to this. Combined with that the train I take recently was 'awarded' the title of most congested in Europe.
buctootim Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 they do, it's in the petrol or diesel cost. But not in the Road tax or insurance.
Window Cleaner Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 But not in the Road tax or insurance. Has pay as you go insurance not made Albion's shores as yet ?? http://www2.amaguiz.com/mkg/ls/google/assurance_auto_1010.htm?gclid=COn4qP_Lqq0CFWIntAodRBTdlg
SuperMikey Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Use trains every week, they are stupidly expensive. Without my railcard it costs about £2.50 to get a return ticket from Airport Parkway to Eastleigh, which is about a mile away. Ridiculous really.
Turkish Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Use trains every week, they are stupidly expensive. Without my railcard it costs about £2.50 to get a return ticket from Airport Parkway to Eastleigh, which is about a mile away. Ridiculous really. Why dont you walk you lazy f*cker?
buctootim Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Has pay as you go insurance not made Albion's shores as yet ?? http://www2.amaguiz.com/mkg/ls/google/assurance_auto_1010.htm?gclid=COn4qP_Lqq0CFWIntAodRBTdlg Aviva trialled it but have scrapped the experiment, I dont know why.
SuperMikey Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Why dont you walk you lazy f*cker? Takes me ages to get to the train station in the first place, it's more of a time-saving measure than anything. Plus I need my energy for work...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 December, 2011 Posted 30 December, 2011 Aviva trialled it but have scrapped the experiment, I dont know why. Because everyone tried to cheat on them I wouldn't doubt. Don't have that type of insurance myself but I know people who do because they only run down to the shops now and again. They're quite pleased with it apparently,we don't have road tax for normal cars either, thinks it's 9+ fiscal horsepower and above. Most family cars with TDCI engines are around 5 or 6 CV so few pay road tax.
Jonnyboy Posted 30 December, 2011 Author Posted 30 December, 2011 Saw lots of moaning about London bus fares going up. No-one likes increases, but £1.35 from one side of London to the other still seems great to me, likewise with tube fares if you're on oyster. I can't help compare it to the frankly mental bus prices down here for 10 minute journeys. Yeah its like £1.80 for about 4 stops, no wonder half the buses are empty.
smithy Posted 31 December, 2011 Posted 31 December, 2011 Also in my experience having driven to and from Latvia, this country is the only place where diesel costs more than petrol. It also has the most expensive fuel compared to Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, Holland, Belgium and France. Why? Because we have more diesel cars and we are being ferked in the arse hard.
trousers Posted 31 December, 2011 Posted 31 December, 2011 If you were a turkey you'd vote for Christmas. Odd. Fancy a gobble?
Guest Dark Sotonic Mills Posted 31 December, 2011 Posted 31 December, 2011 Why dont you walk you lazy f*cker? It's bad enough having to work without having to walk to get there you muppet.
dune Posted 31 December, 2011 Posted 31 December, 2011 It's bad enough having to work without having to walk to get there you muppet. With an attitude like that you will become hideously obese.
Jonnyboy Posted 1 January, 2012 Author Posted 1 January, 2012 With an attitude like that you will become hideously obese. *speaks from experience*
Window Cleaner Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 Also in my experience having driven to and from Latvia, this country is the only place where diesel costs more than petrol. It also has the most expensive fuel compared to Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, Holland, Belgium and France. Why? Because we have more diesel cars and we are being ferked in the arse hard. that can't be right, 70+% of French cars are diesel, virtually all of them very economic TDCI versions. Diesel is 1.35 euros a litre here,95 SP is about 1.51 and SP95E10 about 1.47/1.48. so it just makes sense to get a diesel, ours does a bit over 100 km to the gallon,with the stop/start thingy. If fuel cost are higher in the Uk it can only be down to taxation which makes up about 70/80 % of the purchase price.
smithy Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 that can't be right, 70+% of French cars are diesel, virtually all of them very economic TDCI versions. Diesel is 1.35 euros a litre here,95 SP is about 1.51 and SP95E10 about 1.47/1.48. so it just makes sense to get a diesel, ours does a bit over 100 km to the gallon,with the stop/start thingy. If fuel cost are higher in the Uk it can only be down to taxation which makes up about 70/80 % of the purchase price. Yep diesel is 141.9 and unleaded 134.9, and yes i'm sure it's tax, the uk government penalising us for driving diesel cars.
suewhistle Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 Petrol is no more expensive in the UK than where I live in Italy or in France on the trunk roads. I filled up in Switzerland and Luxembourg on my Christmas trip over and will definitely make sure I get a good full tank in Lux on the way home. Italian rail fares are cheap: if I want to go to my nearest big city Turin (Torino) on the train it costs €7.90 single. The motorway tolls alone would be €11+ let alone petrol etc. As for "31p a mile to get to a well paid job" - possibly fine, but not everybody has a well paid job. When I move back to the UK I'll need to work part-time (to pay for footie season tickets and the like) so I'll be scrabbling around for work. Transport costs will definitely have a big part to play in my planning spreadsheets. In many societies public transport has an important role in maintaining the flexibility of the economy and reducing pollution and congestion costs (for businesses and customers alike). It's patently obvious the current government don't care about any business except finance, and little concern for the environment either, although reducing the ability of people to travel probably helps in carbon reductions..
Whitey Grandad Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 It's all here: http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html
Whitey Grandad Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 With an attitude like that you will become hideously obese. Been there, done that. Well, perhaps not the hideous bit.
smithy Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 It's all here: http://www.drive-alive.co.uk/fuel_prices_europe.html Interesting, i was in Latvia in November and diesel was definitely cheaper than unleaded. Italy the most expensive fuel in Europe with us and Norway close behind. Not many countries where diesel is more expensive.
St Marco Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 Was in Dallas a few weeks ago on business and got a chance to look at the new PS Vita. The guy told me that it will be on sale in feb for $220. I thought thats great, i will be able to get one back home for about £150! Check the UK prices and it is £229 + £39.99 for a card you need to install i.e memory card. So a item that cost $220 in states costs us technically $336. So we are paying $136 (£88.) more. Now that is just a console, doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things but it makes you wonder why we have to pay 40% more on it. The prices here in the UK are way over the top for a lot of things and need to come down.
JustMike Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 Was in Dallas a few weeks ago on business and got a chance to look at the new PS Vita. The guy told me that it will be on sale in feb for $220. I thought thats great, i will be able to get one back home for about £150! Check the UK prices and it is £229 + £39.99 for a card you need to install i.e memory card. So a item that cost $220 in states costs us technically $336. So we are paying $136 (£88.) more. Now that is just a console, doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things but it makes you wonder why we have to pay 40% more on it. The prices here in the UK are way over the top for a lot of things and need to come down. because we are mugs and too nice to make a stand
Jimmy Gabriel's Halo Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 It's a fact that the UK is known as "treasure island" by foreign based companies because we will just put up with higher prices and not do anything about it. As for the price differential between goods and services here and in the USA, the usual reason/excuse is because there is a much greater market in the USA with a 250m population than here with what 65m. Thus many more items can be sold over there at a smaller profit per item but greater overall profit as more can be sold. What we need is a revolution here, brother.
buctootim Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 Yep diesel is 141.9 and unleaded 134.9, and yes i'm sure it's tax, the uk government penalising us for driving diesel cars. The tax on petrol and diesel is the same. Diesel costs more to make. Nice theory conspiracy theory though.
smithy Posted 1 January, 2012 Posted 1 January, 2012 (edited) The tax on petrol and diesel is the same. Diesel costs more to make. Nice theory conspiracy theory though. So a few years ago when diesel was cheaper than petrol there was less tax on diesel and now they have made the tax the same? Or has the cost of producing diesel increased? Also most other European countries are obviously taxing diesel less as it is cheaper than unleaded, so whatever the case it still feels like we're being shafted. Edited 1 January, 2012 by smithy
alpine_saint Posted 2 January, 2012 Posted 2 January, 2012 Also in my experience having driven to and from Latvia, this country is the only place where diesel costs more than petrol. It also has the most expensive fuel compared to Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Germany, Holland, Belgium and France. Why? Because we have more diesel cars and we are being ferked in the arse hard. Not quite true. Its also the case now here in Austria. However, the cause of it is simply supply-and-demand here, and a much greater percentage of our pump cost is due to the crude barrel cost so the prices fluctuate daily here, but the last few months the combined market forces have made diesel more expensive. This is of course different from the UK, where the Govt have set the duty in such a manner as to play with your rectal orifice in the manner you so eloquently described previously.
buctootim Posted 3 January, 2012 Posted 3 January, 2012 So a few years ago when diesel was cheaper than petrol there was less tax on diesel and now they have made the tax the same? Or has the cost of producing diesel increased? Yes the tax on diesel was less for a while as the government was trying to encourage purchase of diesel cars, now it is the same for petrol and diesel.
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 4 January, 2012 Posted 4 January, 2012 $2.80 for a 70km trip into Brisbane from the Gold Coast on a nice clean, punctual train (1.80 sterling). Mars bars are $2 though.
sotonjoe Posted 4 January, 2012 Posted 4 January, 2012 Things like a national rail network should never be privatised. The need for profit always skews the cost to the customer unfairly. What benefit is there in a privatised network? It's not as if we even have 'choice' as we do when it comes to utilities providers. If you're going from Southampton to Waterloo, you get on South West Trains and pay the set fare. It's not as if we have another operator operating a similar timetable on the same route but offering different prices.
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