david in sweden Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 (edited) Saints are proud of Lambert and Guly (look at the scorers charts), but how good does someone have to be to be regarded as a CONSISTANT striker. Naturally, no-one scores every game, or anything like it and with the highest goal tally in this division, and two of the highest scorers we look good but a closer look shows that they don't score as often as it appears. This season (so far) has given us 23 League games and Lambert's fanatastic tally of 15 has come in only 8 of those 23 games, (and he missed one of those). Guly's 9 have come in 7 games. Lallana has scored his 6 in 5 games and Connolly's early season burst was in 5 games. NOTE not successive games but games where they "got lucky"... Namely how often they score - and not how many.Taking absolutely nothing away fron their great efforts, it has to be said that playing some of the lower sides with leaky defences has helped. Ricky has scored 2 hat-tricks and Guly was desperately unlucky not to get one on Boxing Day, ..but I also recall great (Saints) goalscorers in the past who seemed to score in almost every other games, sometimes more often than that. Having a copy of " In That Number " allows one to reminisce over times past. Some of our former greats seemed to score quite regularly. Some players were VERY regular scorers - even when we weren't going for promotion - often quite the opposite. Longer memories than mine tell of post war legend Charlie Wayman's goal feasts (77 goals in 107 games) when he often scored 3, 4 and even 5 games on the trot. Likwise 1950's hitmen Eric Day and Derek Reeves frequently scored in 3 or 4 successive games. My 1960's hero George O'Brien once scored in NINE successive games (though we only finished 6th that season), a feat equalled by legendary Ron Davies 5 years later, when he scored 50% of our goals that season. "On-form " meant scoring in 4 or 5 successive games and despite changing tactics and faster play that was still maintained by players like Ted Mac Dougall and Phil Boyer in the late 70's. Mick Channon (record goalscorer) scored only a few career hat-tricks but was one of the "most regular" scorers over the years. To his credit, even Kevin Keegan's short stay showed what a great scorer can achieve with regularity when he scored 26 goals in 21 diff. games. MLT is a modern legend, but also illustrates the "inconsistancy" of even brilliant strikers - as his fantastic season 1993/4 - saw his 25 goals come from only 15 games although he made 40 starts. We can be eternally grateful for the timely goalscoring efforts of players like Marian Pahars who started the 1999/2000 when he scored 7 times in the first 12 games and got some wicked treatment in between from Prem. defenders throughout the season, but still managed to pop-up with a few more and save us from relegation in that season's last month. I can't finish this epistle without James Beattie - a player somewhere between "apparent laziness" (according to some) - and pure genius. He went the first TEN games of 2002/03 without scoring, before hitting a purple patch of 23 goals in the next 26 games - scoring in 18 of those. With Ricky Lambert we have almost come full circle. His first season monumental goal tally saw his 32 league goals coming in 27 diff.games, last seasons 21 goals came in 17 diff. matches. We can hope - that even against tougher opposition - new strikers to emerge who can be consistant and not just a flash in the pan. Edited 29 December, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintscottofthenortham Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 Roughly 1 in 2.6.HTH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 29 December, 2011 Roughly 1 in 2.6.HTH. ....if thats the stat. I think it is..a "regular / ordinary" striker gets around 1 in 3, the best I've seen quoted got 1 every 2 games (average)..or better. (but to be fair scoring goals is never easy at the best of times. I've seen "so-called star players" put the ball over the bar from 2 yards out.) just watched Liverpool v Wigan on TV - Andy Carroll was **** ing awful ...for £35 million Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minty Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 If we're looking purely at the player, then the conversion rate of shots to goals would be the best benchmark, surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 If we're looking purely at the player, then the conversion rate of shots to goals would be the best benchmark, surely? would that not eliminate the element of being in the right place at the right time?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 29 December, 2011 If we're looking purely at the player, then the conversion rate of shots to goals would be the best benchmark, surely? you're quite right - it would, but those sort of stats. have only been available in recent years, and in the end it's those that go in that are most important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red&white56 Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 To be consistent, imo, then a goal every third game (so 1 goal scored for every 3 starts, coming on as sub is considered a start) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 29 December, 2011 would that not eliminate the element of being in the right place at the right time??[/QUOTE] absolutely, Window Cleaner, IMO the most important characteristic of the "prolific scorer" - is just " being in the right place ..etc. Scoring the 30 yard screamers on the volley are memorable, but taking the half chance when it comes is the real key to success - even from 2 yards out. (I can still recall Denis Law silencing the English crowd at Wembley ..(1961 ???) - when he back-heeled in a goal from 6 yards) . In those days, the England v.Scotland game was second only to a World Cup final. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 (I can still recall Denis Law silencing the English crowd at Wembley ..(1961 ???) - when he back-heeled in a goal from 6 yards) . In those days, the England v.Scotland game was second only to a World Cup final. Are you sure you're not getting confused???? Wasn't the Denis Law backheel for Man City against United??? (and then didn't celebrat) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 29 December, 2011 To be consistent, imo, then a goal every third game (so 1 goal scored for every 3 starts, coming on as sub is considered a start) yes I agree. It must be, really. Some strikers are on the pitch for 90 mins. and never get in a good chance, whereas SDR came on in the last 10 mins. at Reading ..and scored, as did Lee Holmes who was on for the last 5 mins. v. Watford. This season SEVEN league goals have been scored by subs. (THREE by SDR incidentally)... and another THREE by others in the League Cup games, too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 29 December, 2011 Are you sure you're not getting confused???? Wasn't the Denis Law backheel for Man City against United??? (and then didn't celebrat) No I recall that one, also..but the Denis Law goal for Scotland was memorable, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydneysaint Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 BIG RON I know i was shouting 'he used to break noses - by slamming the back of his head back' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stu0x Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 Messi and Ronaldo have rewritten 'prolific'. Igor Bican disagrees with you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OttawaSaint Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 John Aldridge was viewed as prolific with a better than 1 every 2 games in his pro career... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 29 December, 2011 Share Posted 29 December, 2011 Why is the accepted term "prolific" - meaning "producing an abundance"? Seems to me that this would be better applied to the number of chances created by a midfielder. I'd also like to see a table measuring "which goals really counted". Scoring a hattrick in an 8-0 victory isn't as valuable as scoring a goal in the 93rd minute to earn a 2-1 victory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 29 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 29 December, 2011 Why is the accepted term "prolific" - meaning "producing an abundance"? Seems to me that this would be better applied to the number of chances created by a midfielder. I'd also like to see a table measuring "which goals really counted". Scoring a hattrick in an 8-0 victory isn't as valuable as scoring a goal in the 93rd minute to earn a 2-1 victory. My original thought was players who score "regularly " rather than in fits-and-starts. Someone who scores say 20 goals in 10/12 games may seem to be a hot shot, but a player who scores 20 in 20 games is probably going to earn the side more points for his side. Your point about the 8-0 is highly relevant. you only have to score ONE goal more than the opposition to get the 3 points . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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