Are we better off than when Crouch was here?

[NickG]

You hope!

 

Kindest Regards

 

Morph

 

no you get me completely wrong -I would love new single ownership and us moving forward -just too many false dawns and bragging egos that have come to nothing.

[Long Shot]

We were headed into administration under his stewardship too. Our expenditure over income has been running at approx £1.5m for much of the last 18 months, if not longer.

 

Perhaps he should have shown a little more concern a year ago and address the haemorrhaging then, not let the club continue to slip into a coma.

 

Reducing our costs so that we operate within our income stream is what we should be aiming to do.

 

I'm not saying Lowe and Wilde are the answer, but they are also not the sole reason for our current plight.

 

I think Crouch did show concern over a year ago - that is why he was negated on the PLC board following a coup by the execs.

We were heading into administration long before LC grabbed the reigns in December 2007. Don't forget he had already tried to stop the haemorrhaging by blocking the Euell deal a few months before but was let down by Wiseman siding with the execs and Burley getting his way. During his short time in power (6 months) he agreed a deal with Barclays, got rid (albeit by luck) of a manager who was expensive, undisciplined and who had given up the ghost and, in the process, got a good compensation deal out of the Scottish FA which would cover NP's salary for 18 months. The only financial outgoings during this period were for Pearson's loan deals which probably kept us up. So a bit unfair then to have a go at Crouch for the financial mess or even accuse him of being equally guilty. Of course in the middle of this there was also the final satisfactory conclusion of the statue debacle in which he frankly rescued this club and us fans from national ridicule. Imagine, if he had not put his hand in his own pocket all we would have in front of St Marys now would be an empty plynth.

If Wilde and Lowe are not the sole reasons for our plight they sure are the sole reasons why that plight is worsening. I honestly believe if they had stayed out of the club and let Crouch continue with Pearson at the helm we would be more secure with the bank financially and further up the table. Just my opinion of course and no way will we know.

 

I am not particularly pro Crouch - he made mistakes - bad PR and Gorman/Dodd to mention two reasons that I was angry with at the time but, like I said above financial mishandling -no way.

 

Wilde is hanging on for financial reasons, Lowe is there for financial and egotistical reasons, Crouch is involved because he cares about the club. It is a no brainer really and is why I will continue (until a better or more viable proposition emerges) to support the removal of Wilde and Lowe and back Crouch's and Co's efforts to make that happen.

[thefuriousb]

I somehow don't think Crouch will move against JP and Wotte as Lowe did against Pearson. He's not a burn-everything, Year-Zero kind of 'revolutionary'

 

I hope you are right should Lowe & Wilde be ousted.

 

I have really enjoyed the brand of football we have (tried to) play this season.

 

I think there has been much to be heartened and encouraged about so far this season.

 

No more of the over paid, under achievements of last year please

[Roman]

Long Shot, this thread was more interesting when it started talking about what might happen, rather than raking over the hoary old stories about who did what to whom and who was more damaging, Lowe or Crouch.

 

If a new board is coming along, as you clearly believe it is one way or another, will it take over before administration, or are we going to have to take the hit (and probably relegation) before the white knights step in?

[NickG]

Morph all due respect and all that but were those not the words you gave to us a few months back when the Fulthorpe thing was at its height, it may have been even the back end of last season.

I dearly hope you are right but please excuse my cynicism as i really dont mean to question your words.I have indeed been told a few times by different peoplethat the money is signed up and they are about to procede and then nothing. It is so frustrating.

May i also ask, if you have an ear to the powers that be, if you get rid of RL etc please make sure the whole bl''''y lot are gone, the people who have been in the background for decades feeding on the club and taking perks bvut giving nothing in return.

Thanks

Nick

 

exactly my point, not against it happening and if you predict it often enough you will get it right one day! Wish we could recover that thread with the insult to Cowen etc -not out of spite for Morph as I have none for him, but to temper peoples emotions from getting carried away with his words again. He maybe right, I hope it does get sorted -but we had exactly this sort of innuendo before him which led up to clear direct promises of what was happening as he was ITK -he wasn't and it was wrong.

 

Morph -please continue to post your info but no need for the "I know more than you" ego trip.

 

Others -please remember last time (in fact many times - I had abusive emails from people involved with last forum over not believing a certain other ITK) and hold back on hero worship just because someone anonymously says they know whats happening without any back up.

 

No offence genuinely intended

[Roman]

Others -please remember last time (in fact many times - I had abusive emails from people involved with last forum over not believing a certain other ITK) and hold back on hero worship just because someone anonymously says they know whats happening without any back up.

 

No offence genuinely intended

 

None taken Nick, and I'm with you on being cautious. The problem right now is that the Lowe revolutionary express is heading at 100mph towards the buffers, and the alternative, at the moment, is offering a destination for which they haven't even built the track yet.

 

There are a lot of questions raised by these leaks, speculations, call them what you may. ITKs have brought us crashing down in the past with practically a 100% success (or failure) rate. But let's see where this takes us.

[Wes Tender]

Again, back to what I have said so often even I am getting bored with it.

 

All 3 in together or all 3 gone. Each of them has SOME abilities and skills and will keep each other in check. But to be honest, simply re-arranging the deck chairs AGAIN would be like that quote from Einstein or somebody that many people put on their emails....

 

Doing the same thing again and again and hoping for different results is the definition of insanity

 

Why am I not surprised that Leon's "mates" are making more and more vocal moves on here, with one or more of them out in the wilderness this just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and I am :vom: of it

 

I heartily agree with you and if we are to have any of the major shareholders involved, my personal wish was that none of them was and that they all took a back seat for the sake of unity and agreed together to appoint an independent executive board.

 

I was merely responding to a post that implied that Crouch was not up to running this business any better than Lowe and Wilde. If those people stop implying that, then they will not get the opposite response.

[Long Shot]

Long Shot, this thread was more interesting when it started talking about what might happen, rather than raking over the hoary old stories about who did what to whom and who was more damaging, Lowe or Crouch.

 

If a new board is coming along, as you clearly believe it is one way or another, will it take over before administration, or are we going to have to take the hit (and probably relegation) before the white knights step in?

 

 

Roman I was only reacting to someone who accused Crouch of financial mismanagement and whilst the gang of three are still actively involved in the politics of our club I believe it wise to keep an eye on the history.

 

Also I don't neccesarily think there WILL be a new Board although undoubtedly there are some working hard to achieve this before administration beckons. A lot will depend on Lowe seing sense and that is what concerns me gravely.

[Weston Saint]

There are many ITK people posting on this forum but for the most part they only know one side.

 

It can have its pitfalls and many have fallen in. Some have managed to climb back out but many have disappeared from this forum.

 

A good ITK is now someone who has an ear of both sides (or 3 if you include the potential of Fulthorpe) and realises that there is no point posting information any more as matters can change so swiftly as to make that poster look a fool and open to ridicule.

 

There have been and will be many more twists and turns in this long suffering saga but Lowe/Wilde hold the baton at present. That may or may not change in the near future. No one can predict or if they do, be certain of their prediction.

 

That said, at least the ITK's make this forum interesting and worth revisiting on a regular basis

[dubai_phil]

I heartily agree with you and if we are to have any of the major shareholders involved, my personal wish was that none of them was and that they all took a back seat for the sake of unity and agreed together to appoint an independent executive board.

 

I was merely responding to a post that implied that Crouch was not up to running this business any better than Lowe and Wilde. If those people stop implying that, then they will not get the opposite response.

 

Which, when they were locked into a room by the much maligned LLS & others they actually came close to being able to do. (As we saw from the Runnymede minutes)

 

Again, right now the need for UNITY is probably as critical as anything else, unified fanbase with all sides pulling together will help attendances.

 

All that is actually needed is a large dose of humble pie all round, pragmatism, realism, some PROPER straight talking about the future and 3,000 extra people through the gate.

 

THEN we can survive long enough for the "many alleged" wealthy people out there to get their money moving around again.

 

We need a white knight - rarer than two consecutive good performances from DMG at the moment - so we need to SURVIVE until we can find one.

[OldNick]

The problem right now is that the Lowe revolutionary express is heading at 100mph towards the buffers,

Please tell us where we know that is happening?

We have to temper all these things with understanding some good people in the past have been used , as their love for the club and wish for us to do well has blinded them to what really they are bing used to do.

The last I heard, it was some weeks ago, that allegedly AC was very happy how things were going financially. Again that may be wide of the mark as I was not there when it was said.

LS has told us he has information and I believe his word but the source may not be so trustworthy. If the source is 100% correct it is right to take action, but from where I stand looking in and I was the bank I would surely think 'yes he's taken a knife to the costs, and whilst it is not reduced as much as we'd like we are in uncharted financial territory where massive companies are in trouble.'

Now LS may be furnished with better details and that new people are coming in to wipe the debt (oh please let that be and a little to invest) but at present we have been fed a few scraps and i dont want another 'Football first,revolution unless they can come up with the goods.

[John B]

Lowe seems to have no idea about running a football club either, being as how he is headed towards his second failure at it.

 

Let him go back to running retirement homes.

 

If you just accept that a football club is a business, then the fact that Crouch is a more successful businessman than either Lowe or Crouch tends to suggest that he better qualified than either of them to be in charge. If you accept that there are certain factors that make running a football club different than a lot of businesses, then the falling numbers of "customers" voting with their feet since Lowe and Wilde's return is suggestive that too many don't agree that they are the best people in charge.

 

My impression is the Lowe is better at running the club than Crouch as he has more contacts than Crouch.

 

I dont care really who is in charge if I felt Crouch was better than Lowe I would have said.

 

However both Lowe and Crouch are better than Wilde.

[Long Shot]

Morph all due respect and all that but were those not the words you gave to us a few months back when the Fulthorpe thing was at its height, it may have been even the back end of last season.

I dearly hope you are right but please excuse my cynicism as i really dont mean to question your words.

I have indeed been told a few times by different peoplethat the money is signed up and they are about to procede and then nothing. It is so frustrating.

May i also ask, if you have an ear to the powers that be, if you get rid of RL etc please make sure the whole bl''''y lot are gone, the people who have been in the background for decades feeding on the club and taking perks bvut giving nothing in return.

Thanks

Nick

 

 

I am sure Morph will not mind me setting one point straight here. At no time did Morph say anything which was based on Fulthorpe's investment plans. As far as I am aware Morph has no connection with Fulthorpe's alleged consortium. He/she mixes in completely different but no less influential circles.

[Wes Tender]

Attendances are broadly in line with those at the Dell, and we are now in our 4th season in the CCC.

 

The Dell was never sold out for every game played in the league (premiership at that) or cup. When I was not a season ticket holder, I never had a problem getting a ticket for a game.

 

Our "hard core fan base" is and always has been approx 15000

 

The falling number of customers is attributable more to those that came to SMS to see premiership football and/or coupled to, a drop in disposable income.

 

So the hardcore fan base is only 15000 and yet since relegation we were able to get many thousand more fans into St. Mary's even in this division previously. Rather takes the feet from under your contention, doesn't it?

 

Bearing in mind that our fan base is realistically 15000 as you say, the building of the 32000 seater stadium was a complete waste of time, eh?

 

And if the falling numbers are attributable more to the plastics giving up coming and the fall in peoples' disposable income, then those who say that fans are staying away because we are not winning at home or because of the Lowe / Wilde factor are also barking up the wrong tree?

 

This has been debated many times before and all of those things are factors, not just the two you mention.

[Long Shot]

Please tell us where we know that is happening?

We have to temper all these things with understanding some good people in the past have been used , as their love for the club and wish for us to do well has blinded them to what really they are bing used to do.

The last I heard, it was some weeks ago, that allegedly AC was very happy how things were going financially. Again that may be wide of the mark as I was not there when it was said.

LS has told us he has information and I believe his word but the source may not be so trustworthy. If the source is 100% correct it is right to take action, but from where I stand looking in and I was the bank I would surely think 'yes he's taken a knife to the costs, and whilst it is not reduced as much as we'd like we are in uncharted financial territory where massive companies are in trouble.'

Now LS may be furnished with better details and that new people are coming in to wipe the debt (oh please let that be and a little to invest) but at present we have been fed a few scraps and i dont want another 'Football first,revolution unless they can come up with the goods.

 

 

Nick thanks for that slight vote of confidence. However you may have misunderstood what I have said. I am not aware of any new investors as such - but I believe a few out there (inc Crouch) would put enough into the club to stave of looming administration. I think unfortunately while that is a slight glimmer of hope w ehave a long way to go before we are taken over.

 

Also, Dubai Phil - the Runnymede minutes show just how impossible it is for all 3 to work together - nice sentiments but it aint going to happen I am afraid.

[ottery st mary]

Salz plc chairman with Paul Thompson chief executive?? Patrick Trant, Mary Corbett & Gavyn Davies non-executive directors?

 

That gets my vote every time...just get the polling booths ready as nearly all the fans are ready to show their support..

[Roman]

Please tell us where we know that is happening?

We have to temper all these things with understanding some good people in the past have been used , as their love for the club and wish for us to do well has blinded them to what really they are bing used to do.

The last I heard, it was some weeks ago, that allegedly AC was very happy how things were going financially. Again that may be wide of the mark as I was not there when it was said.

LS has told us he has information and I believe his word but the source may not be so trustworthy. If the source is 100% correct it is right to take action, but from where I stand looking in and I was the bank I would surely think 'yes he's taken a knife to the costs, and whilst it is not reduced as much as we'd like we are in uncharted financial territory where massive companies are in trouble.'

Now LS may be furnished with better details and that new people are coming in to wipe the debt (oh please let that be and a little to invest) but at present we have been fed a few scraps and i dont want another 'Football first,revolution unless they can come up with the goods.

 

Nick, my 'source' isn't LS - as he himself knows, I've been a little sceptical about his claims recently. As Weston quite rightly points out, a lot of ITKs only see one side of the story.

 

The idea that the club is running into the sand comes partly from the club itself. They're the ones who talk about the overdraft increasing to £8m. The pub meeting the other day was only the latest at which senior officials from the club said that we could 'only' stave off administration if the gates went up. At least two posters on here apart from LS confirmed they heard the bank were troubled by the way things were going (may be wrong but I think Weston was one of them), etc, etc.

 

I'm surprised anyone even doubts where heading for a fall.

Edited 8 November, 2008 by Roman

[dubai_phil]

Nick thanks for that slight vote of confidence. However you may have misunderstood what I have said. I am not aware of any new investors as such - but I believe a few out there (inc Crouch) would put enough into the club to stave of looming administration. I think unfortunately while that is a slight glimmer of hope w ehave a long way to go before we are taken over.

 

Also, Dubai Phil - the Runnymede minutes show just how impossible it is for all 3 to work together - nice sentiments but it aint going to happen I am afraid.

 

Oh I am fully aware of that, but from my interpretation of that meeting most of the antagonism was Lowe:Wilde we all know how they ended up....

[OldNick]

Nick thanks for that slight vote of confidence. However you may have misunderstood what I have said. I am not aware of any new investors as such - but I believe a few out there (inc Crouch) would put enough into the club to stave of looming administration. I think unfortunately while that is a slight glimmer of hope w ehave a long way to go before we are taken over.

 

.

LS I would hope it was taken as more than a slight vote of confidence. I have no doubts you would not intentionally hurt the club you and i both adore. Just that we come from different directions but both completely want the same.

Something obviously you have been made aware of and it has got your attention and so you wish to help.

It is something most of us would do.

[Mole]

Is Anthony Salz the old bloke who used to 'manage' the car park at the Dell?

 

[Snowballs2]

Unless he is going to install Salz as chairman.

 

 

Getting warmer...Only my opinion I know nothing!

[NickG]

saw Salz being interviewed on tv the other day, seemed a gentleman - it was that thing about him getting phone calls from Brand and Ross about his grandaughter

[Roman]

saw Salz being interviewed on tv the other day, seemed a gentleman - it was that thing about him getting phone calls from Brand and Ross about his grandaughter

 

Salz is young enough to be Andrew Sachs' son. Don't believe the tommac-inspired crap.

[OldNick]

Nick, my 'source' isn't LS - as he himself knows, I've been a little sceptical about his claims recently. As Weston quite rightly points out, a lot of ITKs only see one side of the story.

 

The idea that the club is running into the sand comes partly from the club itself. They're the ones who talk about the overdraft increasing to £8m. The pub meeting the other day was only the latest at which senior officials from the club said that we could 'only' stave off administration if the gates went up. At least two posters on here apart from LS confirmed they heard the bank were troubled by the way things were going (may be wrong but I think Weston was one of them), etc, etc.

 

I'm surprised anyone even doubts where heading for a fall.

I agree the club have let us know the overdraft has gone up to £8m, frankly Im not surprised if the club was losing 100k's a week (I still am not sure how much it was, but it was ranging from 100k -400k)when RL came back. Perhaps fans may understand more why Davies was sold and high wage earners were loaned.

[NickG]

Salz is young enough to be Andrew Sachs' son.

 

ok but what has this Sachs bloke got to do with saints?

[Mole]

Salz is young enough to be Andrew Sachs' son. Don't believe the tommac-inspired crap.

 

How old is he out of interest? I'd say 70.

[Mole]

How old is he out of interest? I'd say 70.

 

Ooops, sorry Anthony...

 

Anthony Salz: the City lawyer everyone wants to hire

 

Jun 07, 2006

 

Anthony Salz, the finest legal brain in Britain, is planning to retire, but several big name firms are trying to recruit him with tempting offers. It’s not hard to see why, says Jane Lewis

When Anthony Salz announced his retirement as senior partner of Freshfields last year, at the tender age of 55, it was immediately assumed he’d be knocked down by a stampede of offers. Not only is Salz supposedly one of the nicest blokes you’re likely to meet – with a knack of turning clients into loyal and admiring friends – but he’s also a tough and effective operator, boasting one of the finest legal brains in Britain.

 

No surprise, then, that a tug-of-war for Salz’s affections is now under way in earnest. Salz has been approached as a possible successor for his friend David Mayhew as chairman of JP Morgan Cazenove; Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley are also believed to have dangled senior roles and, according to some, a position at Rothschild is almost a done deal. It looks set to be a golden summer for Salz, who has sensibly taken himself off on an extended tour of India and Bhutan to consider his options. As he told The Times, “It’s quite a tricky decision to take… I have to decide where I am likely to enjoy myself the most.”

 

Few begrudge Salz his moment of glory, says Maggie Urry in the FT, but it certainly makes a change from his usually “excellent camouflage”. He has the ability to “fade into the background and pass unnoticed” and never upstages a client – “a useful skill” for a lawyer. But never underestimate his standing as a tough opponent. During 31 years at Freshfields, he was at the centre of some of the biggest corporate deals ever, including SmithKline’s merger with Beecham and Mannesmann’s defence against Vodafone. More significantly, he transformed the venerable firm, established in 1743, into the international powerhouse Freshfields Bruckhaus Deringer, following its 2000 merger with two German firms.

 

Brought up in the West Country and educated at Radley, Salz was a product of his times. “I came from the flower power, liberal generation,” he says. He planned a career in sociology until his father, an orthopaedic surgeon, persuaded him that law would prove a more useful profession. Salz took to it like a natural and joined Freshfields in 1975. A year on secondment in New York toughened him up and “made me more ambitious”. The timing was propitious, given the boom in mergers and acquisitions that in time became Salz’s speciality.

 

In 1986, he advised Guinness on its bid to buy Distillers and “was as taken aback as everyone else by the wrongdoing that emerged”, says The Sunday Times. Salz claimed he had repeatedly warned directors of the illegality of their actions – a version of events that conflicted with that of Guinness chief Ernest Saunders. It was a nail-biting time, but Salz won the day and emerged from the episode stronger.

 

Salz’s main disappointment is that Freshfields has not established a mightier presence in the US under his watch. It’s often said that the mark of a great dealmaker is a willingness to leave something behind on the table. By that token, Salz certainly qualifies: his replacement, Guy Morton, “is a man on a mission” to make his mark in the States. But few people are betting against Salz’s own return to the thick of it, says The Daily Telegraph. “When I was 40, I dreamt about how wonderful it would be to retire at 55 and be financially secure,” he says. “Now I am here, I know I would go bonkers.”

 

What makes Salz so special?

Corporate lawyers are two a penny. What makes Salz so special? Clients claim it is his bold, imaginative approach that makes him a star. “Most lawyers tell you why not to do something, but Anthony is creative,” says David Mayhew at Cazenove. “He will show you how to do it within the law. And he has a wicked sense of humour.” A dealmaker at heart, Salz welcomes the fact that lawyers have become “central to the negotiating team”, says the FT. He prides himself on combining commercial nous with “a lawyer’s ability to come at problems in a slightly different way” and thrives on untangling complex legal issues, often under intense pressure to meet deadlines. Few can pinpoint any weaknesses. One suggests “Starbucks coffee”, another, “Southampton football club”. His charity contacts say he “gets stuck in”, giving valuable assistance.

 

Salz is renowned for the apparently effortless manner in which he doles out his “killer advice” and for his refusal to grandstand, says The Sunday Times. Clients, struck by his easy approachability and humour, frequently become friends. Salz’s friendship with Gavyn Davies, the former BBC chairman and fellow Southampton supporter, helped pave the way for his current role as vice-chairman of the BBC and he began his work with the homeless at the instigation of HSBC’s John Studzinski.

 

Married with three grown-up children, Salz tends towards the parsimonious. Indeed, at Exeter University he was renowned for actually charging his contemporaries a shilling a head for giving them a lift between the law department and the main campus.

[Roman]

How old is he out of interest? I'd say 70.

 

Not sixty yet.

 

Who know if he'll become Chairman, but the important thing about Salz, in the short term, is this: imagine the next meeting between the club and Barclays.

 

Do you think the Mr Mannering at Barclays would react differently if, instead of being confronted by Lowe, he was dealing with one of the most senior executives in Rothschilds Bank?

 

It could be the difference between survival and administration and/or relegation.

[Mole]

Not sixty yet.

 

Who know if he'll become Chairman, but the important thing about Salz, in the short term, is this: imagine the next meeting between the club and Barclays.

 

Do you think the Mr Mannering at Barclays would react differently if, instead of being confronted by Lowe, he was dealing with one of the most senior executives in Rothschilds Bank?

 

It could be the difference between survival and administration and/or relegation.

 

If you read the article above you can see how Salz was head hunted by the largest players in the global economy. This man must be special!

 

With that in mind i can certainly see your point.

 

Lowe is a non entity compared to Anthony Salz.

[Snowballs2]

Not sixty yet.

 

Who know if he'll become Chairman, but the important thing about Salz, in the short term, is this: imagine the next meeting between the club and Barclays.

 

Do you think the Mr Mannering at Barclays would react differently if, instead of being confronted by Lowe, he was dealing with one of the most senior executives in Rothschilds Bank?

 

It could be the difference between survival and administration and/or relegation.

 

 

Spot on at last, now I would not expect that Saltz will invest, however having identified our female ex employee listen to what she and Morph are trying to tell you.

Believe me that they are both closer to the action than any of us are ...with one or two exceptions.

We are in deep sheet, Administration is a small step away...but so is survival with the help of both the Bank and certain individuals like Mr Saltz.

His city contacts are something that Lowe could only dream of having, I am NOT suggesting he will organise a buy out or investment, but he knows the right people and some that may be able to offer some sort of help, whatever that may be.

 

just my humble opinion of course ..as Morph would say.

[ottery st mary]

If it had not been for certain people and their ego, Salz would have been in the chair and leading the club correctly and not certain people and their own interests and treating the club once again as their play thing.

 

Wildey you know it makes sense, you know you were used..

Lowey come to your senses and let the right people lead the club..

Scudey have a nice day..

 

Just my opinion

Dickey

[Mole]

Scudey have a nice day..

 

Don't start upsetting Scudey again.

[OldNick]

his credentials look good.

[Roman]

Spot on at last, now I would not expect that Saltz will invest, however having identified our female ex employee listen to what she and Morph are trying to tell you.

Believe me that they are both closer to the action than any of us are ...with one or two exceptions.

We are in deep sheet, Administration is a small step away...but so is survival with the help of both the Bank and certain individuals like Mr Saltz.

His city contacts are something that Lowe could only dream of having, I am NOT suggesting he will organise a buy out or investment, but he knows the right people and some that may be able to offer some sort of help, whatever that may be.

 

just my humble opinion of course ..as Morph would say.

 

At last? I've been going on about Salz ever since tommac started spreading nonsense about how he was just a doddery old pig farmer who knew and was interested in nothing.

 

I remain sceptical about LS and Morph not because of any personal animosity but because, as I've said before, their information comes from the trenches of only one of the armies in all this. That's why Morph's been wrong in the past - not because he's been duped, but because the balance of forces have overwhelmed whatever he thought would happen.

[Snowballs2]

At last? I've been going on about Salz ever since tommac started spreading nonsense about how he was just a doddery old pig farmer who knew and was interested in nothing.

 

I remain sceptical about LS and Morph not because of any personal animosity but because, as I've said before, their information comes from the trenches of only one of the armies in all this. That's why Morph's been wrong in the past - not because he's been duped, but because the balance of forces have overwhelmed whatever he thought would happen.

 

 

There are times in life when you have to have faith...there are times in life, when for your own peace of mind you have to become less of a sceptic.

Perhaps at my age and time of life I have now reached that point.

Not any person on here is without a personal view or opinion.

Much is discussed on the basis of ones ability to weigh up who is the most trustworthy and who is an egocentric.

All we can hope is that those we deem to be trustworhty are sure of the facts that they report from their side of the canyon

[ottery st mary]

Don't start upsetting Scudey again.

 

After all the foul names he has called me and fellow fans, I was under the impression he would have been red carded by now.

Most of us are fans and want the best for Saints.

In my opinion Scudey or Richard is not a true fan and resorts to foul and abusive language which shows him for what he is.....

Even other Lowey supporters are reasonable and some are even fans of Saints.

I have no axe to grind but even I realised that Lowey does not have the basic love of the club to do the right thing now. Lowey a business man..No chance..

 

God bless Crouchey as he is a fan and if his group can oust the Lavender Hill Mob, then I believe we may have a chance....Its just a pity about Pearson..but I suppose we have to look forward and hope and pray Lowey will be long gone soon.. Wildey..if he loves the club, can even stay and support the new group.

Salz is definitely the man for our club and if Davies, Trant, Corbett, Crouch and any other true fans can fascilitate this soon..We may have a future..

 

Let us also hope we win to-0day.

 

Scudey.. no more of your nonsense.

[thefuriousb]

Roman I was only reacting to someone who accused Crouch of financial mismanagement and whilst the gang of three are still actively involved in the politics of our club I believe it wise to keep an eye on the history.

 

Okay Horatio.

 

I did not make accuse LC solely of mis-management, i merely pointed out that all 3 were implicit in the financial mess.

 

It should not have taken the very real threat of administration for the decisions to live within our means to finally be made.

 

I don't care who made them. I care they were not made sooner. That is negligent IMO

[dubai_phil]

Okay Horatio.

 

I did not make accuse LC solely of mis-management, i merely pointed out that all 3 were implicit in the financial mess.

 

It should not have taken the very real threat of administration for the decisions to live within our means to finally be made.

 

I don't care who made them. I care they were not made sooner. That is negligent IMO

 

Agree. Enough of the mini-history re-writes lots more could have been done at every step along the way.

 

We have to live with that now and survive until rescue comes (no matter how long and from where that may be) rather than be utilised as a forum for scoring points between the 'friends' of each faction.

[thefuriousb]

So the hardcore fan base is only 15000 and yet since relegation we were able to get many thousand more fans into St. Mary's even in this division previously. Rather takes the feet from under your contention, doesn't it?

 

Yes - that is correct. The hardcore is about 15000, possibly less.

 

Depending on results you will get roughly another 8000 to come more regularly, with a few more on the back of promotion. The latter will be those that took advantage of the increased capacity at SMS when it opened.

 

As these are not attending when life is tough, then I believe I am right to exclude them from the "hardcore".

 

So not including the "fairweather" supporters rather supports my contention, not undermine it.

 

I re-iterate, attendances at the Dell were broadly the same, and you could get a ticket for any game you wanted. I did.

[DaveyR]

Yes - that is correct. The hardcore is about 15000, possibly less.

 

Depending on results you will get roughly another 8000 to come more regularly, with a few more on the back of promotion. The latter will be those that took advantage of the increased capacity at SMS when it opened.

 

As these are not attending when life is tough, then I believe I am right to exclude them from the "hardcore".

 

So not including the "fairweather" supporters rather supports my contention, not undermine it.

 

I re-iterate, attendances at the Dell were broadly the same, and you could get a ticket for any game you wanted. I did.

 

I couldn't when I pitched up on the day, there were many sell outs at The Dell...

[trousers]

Unfortunately there are a few on this board who cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

It's hardly surprising we can't see the wood is it? What with all the plants in the way.....

[trousers]

Oh, and did I mention that Salz will be Leon's guest tomorrow. Now how would I know that?

 

Am I ITK ?

 

Only if Anthony Salz has adopted Mary Corbett's cat....

Edited 8 November, 2008 by trousers

[trousers]

Oh, and did I mention that Salz will be Leon's guest tomorrow. Now how would I know that?

 

Good question, but more importantly....how will we on here know that you were right?

 

Unless, of course, you plan on posting some tangible proof that Salz was indeed Leon's guest (later tonight after the game)....

[trousers]

Is Anthony Salz the old bloke who used to 'manage' the car park at the Dell?

 

 

Why have you posted a picture of Arthur English?

[trousers]

 

A good ITK is now someone who has an ear of both sides (or 3 if you include the potential of Fulthorpe)

 

I've known all along that ears would play a big part in all this

[70's Mike]

Yes - that is correct. The hardcore is about 15000, possibly less.

 

Depending on results you will get roughly another 8000 to come more regularly, with a few more on the back of promotion. The latter will be those that took advantage of the increased capacity at SMS when it opened.

 

As these are not attending when life is tough, then I believe I am right to exclude them from the "hardcore".

 

So not including the "fairweather" supporters rather supports my contention, not undermine it.

 

I re-iterate, attendances at the Dell were broadly the same, and you could get a ticket for any game you wanted. I did.

 

as the capacity in the last few years at the Dell was 15000 of which 1500 were away fans , i think the hardcore was 13500.

[thefuriousb]

as the capacity in the last few years at the Dell was 15000 of which 1500 were away fans ' date=' i think the hardcore was 13500.[/quote']

 

A-B-O-U-T

 

The point that those that will watch Saints week in, week out (the hardcore) is the same now as it was at the dell is still valid.

 

If anything you post supports my assertion that the "hardcore" has not changed much.

 

When the Dell was still standing terraces with a capacity of c 22000, and I couldn't get a ticket for the under east, then I stood in the pens on the Archers Road and you could have a game of 6 aside among yourselves it was "that paakced"

[thefuriousb]

I couldn't when I pitched up on the day, there were many sell outs at The Dell...

 

"many" - yes.

"always" - no.

 

There were about 2500 tickets that were available for each home game after STs and away allocation was deducted. I got tickets to all the games I wanted to before becoming a ST holder.

 

Not once did I not get a ticket because it was a sell out

[NickG]

Good question, but more importantly....how will we on here know that you were right?

 

Unless, of course, you plan on posting some tangible proof that Salz was indeed Leon's guest (later tonight after the game)....

 

had a look in their box but didn't see him -may have missed him

[Roman]

There are times in life when you have to have faith...there are times in life, when for your own peace of mind you have to become less of a sceptic.

Perhaps at my age and time of life I have now reached that point.

Not any person on here is without a personal view or opinion.

Much is discussed on the basis of ones ability to weigh up who is the most trustworthy and who is an egocentric.

All we can hope is that those we deem to be trustworhty are sure of the facts that they report from their side of the canyon

 

We've been down this road before, Snowballs. You had faith in tommac. I didn't. So I think it's best to be safe and base our trust on results - even with the small details, such as: was Salz really at the game?