Are we better off than when Crouch was here?

[OldNick]

I agreed but the off field events will soon impact negatively on the on field events. Not wanting to be a doom merchant but the credit crunch has not yet peaked, and therefore the club's ability to generate new income over the next 12mths is going to be very challenging or near impossible. I hope the guardians running our club are seriously searching for investment but I worry that Rupert is too focused on retaining power and will take the club to the brink of administration before talking to rival factions who could improve our financial wellbeing during these difficult times.

Again I really dont know what RL is doing about getting investment. I would expect with RL's time in the City he maybe more discreet than perhaps other parties who made their wealth in other industries.

If RL goes tomorrow, we need someone to come in and invest a lot of money to get us in a better position.LS please let us know that the new people can at least get us out of the prospect of the administrators and we are safe from it.

[Roman]

Is this a cryptic clue?

 

Indiana as in Jones, Jones as in David Jones. Or am i barking up the wrong tree or maybe just barking?

 

No, it's a song title. The song's about a man on the run for the law. Terrible song, as well, Law Suit... I mean Long Shot.

[Frank's cousin]

 

And in a way, that's my problem with Franks posts on this subject. Whilst it was OK for him to be worried about the future direction of our Club a while back (so much in fact that he got deeply involved), now it is deemed negative, vitriolic and unrealistic to have concerns about the plght of our Club.

 

 

Sorry UP, but you have perhaps misunderstood me hre (maybe my fault for hiding things in long winded posts...;-))

 

I have never said that being worried or caring about the club is NEGATIVE or VITRIOLIC or unrealistic now, In fact its perfectly rationale to be concerned about and care now as it was yesterday... the difference is not the caring but the vitriol with which this is expressed both now and yesterday. I guess I am saying you can care, be concerned and even angry, without it effecting the way you support the side, or without irrational bitterness based on what in many cases is speculation... All I have changed my mind on is that for me personally, I feel that given the 'financial crisis' and the inevitable cost cutting, etc, the fact we have many home grown kids and a coach who despite probably crap money (relatively) and limited resources, and fan indifference is actually trying to get the kids playing in a positive attacking passing game - So the very least I can do is get behind him and the lads and support the club the way i can.... and yes encourgae others to do so as well, as unless someone has aheap of cash with which to buy out Lowe and Wilde the reality is there is feck all we can do....and I am merely presenting th idea that right now there is perhaps no other way? For sure, once again we get crap communication and limited info so we feel taken for granted...blah blah etc, but how many of us would listen and believe him even if they came out and told us the truth?

 

Like I said, is it possible that the current situation is driven by necessity and in that way Lowe s perfect for the job, so thick skinned and arrogant he is doing it despite it ruining what little standing he had left with some fans? Are we not in this mess in teh first place because the previous regime were too worried about their image with fans thn about what was in th best interests of teh clubs finances? I DONT KNOW the answer tothis, merely posing the question, because from where I ma standing there is abot the same level of evidence for this being accurate as the rest of the rubbish spouted on here about the board. So you can see my confusion?

[fos1]

So how would Tessem help us? Tessem was hardly a passing player and was only adequate and has since been released by L2 Bournemouth.

Just because he played for us once doesnt mean he is right to fit into the dynamics now and i doubt he would be doing it free of charge.

 

No one is saying Tessem should come in, but that is JP shout not Lowe, it just shows the people who doubt Lowe is involved on the playing side are wrong.

[Delmary]

Long Shot,

 

Don't you mean "they are"

 

Anthony Salz will be Leon's guest at the next home game BTW.

 

Kind Regards

 

 

Morph

Hope he enjoys the game tomorrow;)

[Snowballs2]

If it is only shares changing hands it is just another case of reaaranging the chairs on the Titanic.

So a pro LC group buys the shares, we get no investment but LOwe pushed out

A pro Lowe group buy the shares and we are where we are. To me neither gets me excited, and in fact perhaps the first versdio9n may mean more upheaval just as things may be starting to settle.

Again all I want is a clean sweep of the whole lot.

 

 

 

In what way are you able to deduce that to quote you..things are begining to settle. Is it the unexpected one off win away last weekend ?

[Snowballs2]

I was wondering,but surely LS would not puta person into such a difficult position.

 

 

You are no where near warm. I know for a fact its NOT david Jones

[Morph]

My understanding is that Leon is looking to buy out the other 2 stooges.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

Oh, and did I mention that Salz will be Leon's guest tomorrow. Now how would I know that?

 

Am I ITK ?

 

Kindest Regards

 

 

Morph

[NickG]

why brag? lost those rights after your last outburst!

[Snowballs2]

My understanding is that Leon is looking to buy out the other 2 stooges.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

Oh, and did I mention that Salz will be Leon's guest tomorrow. Now how would I know that?

 

Am I ITK ?

 

Kindest Regards

 

 

Morph

 

You have my respect...Still.... I hope that you are correct. Leon is the only fan on the board

[Snowballs2]

why brag? lost those rights after your last outburst!

 

No better...or worse...than some of your summations

[Morph]

why brag? lost those rights after your last outburst!

 

You hope!

 

Kindest Regards

 

Morph

[Long Shot]

You hope!

 

Kindest Regards

 

Morph

 

jealousy I think - how are you Morph?

 

Interesting and tense times eh?

 

Regards

Long Shot

[Delmary]

My understanding is that Leon is looking to buy out the other 2 stooges.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

Oh, and did I mention that Salz will be Leon's guest tomorrow. Now how would I know that?

 

Am I ITK ?

 

Kindest Regards

 

 

Morph

But this would push him over 29.9%. I hope he & his friends have deep pockets.

[Morph]

jealousy I think - how are you Morph?

 

Interesting and tense times eh?

 

Regards

Long Shot

 

Long Shot,

 

Thank Goodness for your input in these trying times.

 

Unfortunately there are a few on this board who cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

Who knows, we may surprise them !!

 

Er, may I say we will definately surprise them, and sooner rather than later.

 

Keep the faith Long Shot

 

Kindest Regards

 

Morph

[Delmary]

Long Shot,

 

Thank Goodness for your input in these trying times.

 

Unfortunately there are a few on this board who cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

Who knows, we may surprise them !!

 

Er, may I say we will definately surprise them, and sooner rather than later.

 

Keep the faith Long Shot

 

Kindest Regards

 

Morph

This is turning into one of those St.David/LLS love in moments. Careful people;):-({|=

[Roman]

This is turning into one of those St.David/LLS love in moments. Careful people;):-({|=

 

With all the cryptic nudges and winks of old - except that Morph has the rather endearing manner of a whispering Jesuit priest as played by Rowan Atkinson.

[Mole]

This is turning into one of those St.David/LLS love in moments. Careful people;):-({|=

 

It is becoming a tad tedious all this mocking of those supposedly not ITK.

[Delmary]

It is becoming a tad tedious all this mocking of those supposedly not ITK.

It's harmless fun.:smt020

[Delmary]

Again I really dont know what RL is doing about getting investment. I would expect with RL's time in the City he maybe more discreet than perhaps other parties who made their wealth in other industries.

If RL goes tomorrow, we need someone to come in and invest a lot of money to get us in a better position.LS please let us know that the new people can at least get us out of the prospect of the administrators and we are safe from it.

This is key.

[Delmary]

Long Shot,

 

Thank Goodness for your input in these trying times.

 

Unfortunately there are a few on this board who cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

Who knows, we may surprise them !!

 

Er, may I say we will definately surprise them, and sooner rather than later.

 

Keep the faith Long Shot

 

Kindest Regards

 

Morph

Cinders, at the stroke of midnight you'll have another three posting opportunities. Use them wisely;)

[Mole]

Cinders, at the stroke of midnight you'll have another three posting opportunities. Use them wisely;)

 

It doesn't work like that. It's 24 hours after each post.

[Delmary]

It doesn't work like that. It's 24 hours after each post.

Dam and double doh. To bed:smt071

[St_Tel49]

Your deduction is almost certainly correct St_Tel, but only a fool would say, on here, exactly when. Fairly soon I would imagine as administration was forecasted Feb 09 and that was with expected gates of 17,000+.

 

Gotta go................................... "Indiana wants me"

That date of Feb 09 sounds like something that would only be known internally hence, either you really do know something or, like a fair number before you, you are making statements to manipulate opinion on this board. I am no position to make a judgement on that so I await the outcome with interest.

[up and away]

My understanding is that Leon is looking to buy out the other 2 stooges.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

Oh, and did I mention that Salz will be Leon's guest tomorrow. Now how would I know that?

 

Am I ITK ?

 

Kindest Regards

 

 

Morph

 

And would he put his name officially alongside anything that could have administration attached to it? NAFC.

[Roman]

That date of Feb 09 sounds like something that would only be known internally hence, either you really do know something or, like a fair number before you, you are making statements to manipulate opinion on this board. I am no position to make a judgement on that so I await the outcome with interest.

 

I have a bad feeling about this. I get the impression that Crouch's in-house allies on here think the club is about to fall into his hands as Lowe simply runs out of options with administration looming.

 

But Lowe is nothing if not resourceful in matters of boardroom politics - so I'll make a little prediction now that we could see the outbreak of yet more civil war quite soon.

[Amesbury Saint]

Ump, I agree, but generally the fans are accepting what is happening on the pitch .

 

and hence attendances have fallen 26% (I am not sure of the exact figure but they are well down.

 

If the fall in attendance is not due what is happening on the pitch then it must be Lowe's return?

[Long Shot]

I have a bad feeling about this. I get the impression that Crouch's in-house allies on here think the club is about to fall into his hands as Lowe simply runs out of options with administration looming.

 

But Lowe is nothing if not resourceful in matters of boardroom politics - so I'll make a little prediction now that we could see the outbreak of yet more civil war quite soon.

 

You could be right, Roman, about civil war but I don't think Crouch is interested in the "club falling into his hands". In fact I hear he is no longer interested in any significant position at SMS other than in his corporate box, but I do think he is very concerned at the direction the club is heading and doing all he can to help prevent what is, under the current stewardship, inevitable administration.

 

Wilde wants out with as much cash as possible.

Lowe will not admit he got it wrong by coming back and will try and stay to the bitter end (as he did last time). Personal agendas ahead of the club's wellbeing is not good news for the fans.

[dubai_phil]

That date of Feb 09 sounds like something that would only be known internally hence, either you really do know something or, like a fair number before you, you are making statements to manipulate opinion on this board. I am no position to make a judgement on that so I await the outcome with interest.

 

Don't think this is any form of rocket science....

 

February comes after January

 

Which is the second transfer window of the season. So any issues caused by cash flow in the first half of the season must be solved in January.

 

We know the O/D is 8mil. We know we only LOANED Rasiak, Saga & SJ not getting any significant money for them, pre-credit crunch the bank seemed to have agreed a 4mil overdraft, but that means we need 4mil for the bank AND we need to cover the decreased revenue so let's work it all out.....

 

An egotistical investor will get in during December to "SAVE" the youngsters. A wise investor will wait to February to pick up the pieces AFTER the debt has been reduced. A speculative investor will be looking at the option expiring on a piece of property in April....

[dubai_phil]

My understanding is that Leon is looking to buy out the other 2 stooges.

 

I may be wrong, but I don't think so.

 

Oh, and did I mention that Salz will be Leon's guest tomorrow. Now how would I know that?

 

Am I ITK ?

 

Kindest Regards

 

 

Morph

 

But Morph, WHY?

 

The CLUB needs an input of money FAR more desperately than Wilde or Lowe & Co do.

 

WHY pay them? There are plenty of other ways to get them moved out of the way for ever that means they don't take money that the club needs now.

 

TBH if he buys them out and doesn't have 4mil to bring the overdraft down to where it needs to be what is the point on moving the damned deckchairs again?

 

I'm sure Barlcays Bank can advise him on how to take things over without buying shares, they did quite well last week....

[Saint_John]

You could be right, Roman, about civil war but I don't think Crouch is interested in the "club falling into his hands". In fact I hear he is no longer interested in any significant position at SMS other than in his corporate box, but I do think he is very concerned at the direction the club is heading and doing all he can to help prevent what is, under the current stewardship, inevitable administration.

 

Wilde wants out with as much cash as possible.

Lowe will not admit he got it wrong by coming back and will try and stay to the bitter end (as he did last time). Personal agendas ahead of the club's wellbeing is not good news for the fans.

 

Thank you for all this info from yourself and Morph.

 

LOWE OUT.

[John B]

My understanding is that Leon is looking to buy out the other 2 stooges.

 

 

 

Well what is the point of that.

 

Leon appears to have no idea on how to run a football club.

 

Let him run the supporters club

[Mole]

You could be right, Roman, about civil war but I don't think Crouch is interested in the "club falling into his hands". In fact I hear he is no longer interested in any significant position at SMS other than in his corporate box, but I do think he is very concerned at the direction the club is heading and doing all he can to help prevent what is, under the current stewardship, inevitable administration.

 

Wilde wants out with as much cash as possible.

Lowe will not admit he got it wrong by coming back and will try and stay to the bitter end (as he did last time). Personal agendas ahead of the club's wellbeing is not good news for the fans.

 

I'd very much like to see Leon Crouch back at the club. He is a considerably richer businessman than Lowe and Wilde combined so he's obviously got his head screwed on. I really don't see what he did wrong the last time. He inherrited Wildes mess in terms of the Execs and he sorted it out, and he started reducing costs by loaning out Rasiak and other high earners. Leon had even broached the unpopular subject of closing the corners. Leon made a mistake appointing Dodd and Gorman, but he put that right and under Nigel Pearson we had a manager who looked good for a long stint rebuilding the club.

[yorkie]

When is the AGM?

When are the figures due out?

Surely as a very small shareholder I can have a say at the AGM, and as many small investors as possible should also be able to demonstrate a lack of faith in the current regime.

[Wes Tender]

Well what is the point of that.

 

Leon appears to have no idea on how to run a football club.

 

Let him run the supporters club

 

Lowe seems to have no idea about running a football club either, being as how he is headed towards his second failure at it.

 

Let him go back to running retirement homes.

 

If you just accept that a football club is a business, then the fact that Crouch is a more successful businessman than either Lowe or Crouch tends to suggest that he better qualified than either of them to be in charge. If you accept that there are certain factors that make running a football club different than a lot of businesses, then the falling numbers of "customers" voting with their feet since Lowe and Wilde's return is suggestive that too many don't agree that they are the best people in charge.

[Roman]

But Morph, WHY?

 

The CLUB needs an input of money FAR more desperately than Wilde or Lowe & Co do.

 

WHY pay them? There are plenty of other ways to get them moved out of the way for ever that means they don't take money that the club needs now.

 

TBH if he buys them out and doesn't have 4mil to bring the overdraft down to where it needs to be what is the point on moving the damned deckchairs again?

 

I'm sure Barlcays Bank can advise him on how to take things over without buying shares, they did quite well last week....

 

I think there is a point to it all, Phil, even if Crouch has no additional funds to invest.

 

For one thing, the club needs a new injection of ideas from the boardroom about how to get attendances back up to break-even and above. Lowe is too divisive and (towards fans) blithely uncommunicative, to ever achieve that.

 

For all of Leon's supposed faults, he does seem to understand the backs-against-the-wall, we're-in-this-together mindset that has been a traditional strength of the club. In this sense, you compare him to Lowe and he's like Henry V on St Crispin's Day.

 

Secondly, for all the talk of cost-cutting, the Lowe revolution has cost money and points, at home at least. Not playing a better balance of experience and youth, and acquiring a baffling number of young squad players has come at a price.

 

Third, I somehow don't think Crouch will move against JP and Wotte as Lowe did against Pearson. He's not a burn-everything, Year-Zero kind of 'revolutionary'.

 

However, as I say, can you see Lowe going quietly, even in the face of the imminent (administrative) demise of the club?

[dubai_phil]

Lowe seems to have no idea about running a football club either, being as how he is headed towards his second failure at it.

 

Let him go back to running retirement homes.

 

If you just accept that a football club is a business, then the fact that Crouch is a more successful businessman than either Lowe or Crouch tends to suggest that he better qualified than either of them to be in charge. If you accept that there are certain factors that make running a football club different than a lot of businesses, then the falling numbers of "customers" voting with their feet since Lowe and Wilde's return is suggestive that too many don't agree that they are the best people in charge.

 

Again, back to what I have said so often even I am getting bored with it.

 

All 3 in together or all 3 gone. Each of them has SOME abilities and skills and will keep each other in check. But to be honest, simply re-arranging the deck chairs AGAIN would be like that quote from Einstein or somebody that many people put on their emails....

 

Doing the same thing again and again and hoping for different results is the definition of insanity

 

Why am I not surprised that Leon's "mates" are making more and more vocal moves on here, with one or more of them out in the wilderness this just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and I am :vom: of it

[OldNick]

Long Shot,

 

Thank Goodness for your input in these trying times.

 

Unfortunately there are a few on this board who cannot see the wood for the trees.

 

Who knows, we may surprise them !!

 

Er, may I say we will definately surprise them, and sooner rather than later.

 

Keep the faith Long Shot

 

Kindest Regards

 

Morph

Morph all due respect and all that but were those not the words you gave to us a few months back when the Fulthorpe thing was at its height, it may have been even the back end of last season.

I dearly hope you are right but please excuse my cynicism as i really dont mean to question your words.

I have indeed been told a few times by different peoplethat the money is signed up and they are about to procede and then nothing. It is so frustrating.

May i also ask, if you have an ear to the powers that be, if you get rid of RL etc please make sure the whole bl''''y lot are gone, the people who have been in the background for decades feeding on the club and taking perks bvut giving nothing in return.

Thanks

Nick

[Roman]

Again, back to what I have said so often even I am getting bored with it.

 

All 3 in together or all 3 gone. Each of them has SOME abilities and skills and will keep each other in check. But to be honest, simply re-arranging the deck chairs AGAIN would be like that quote from Einstein or somebody that many people put on their emails....

 

Doing the same thing again and again and hoping for different results is the definition of insanity

 

Why am I not surprised that Leon's "mates" are making more and more vocal moves on here, with one or more of them out in the wilderness this just goes on and on and on and on and on and on and I am :vom: of it

 

Well, you've got Long Shot's word for it that Crouch is not coming back in any executive capacity. So if he and his allies topple Lowe/Wilde, then I guess we will have made at least the first steps towards what you're looking for.

 

I must admit, though, this does sound a bit puzzling.

[OldNick]

Lowe seems to have no idea about running a football club either, being as how he is headed towards his second failure at it.

 

Let him go back to running retirement homes.

 

If you just accept that a football club is a business, then the fact that Crouch is a more successful businessman than either Lowe or Crouch tends to suggest that he better qualified than either of them to be in charge. If you accept that there are certain factors that make running a football club different than a lot of businesses, then the falling numbers of "customers" voting with their feet since Lowe and Wilde's return is suggestive that too many don't agree that they are the best people in charge.

Wes I think your first sentence is unfair. RL had 5to return to try and get the costs slashed and has tried a visionary approach to it (I await the normal nonsense at that statement) We are only at the very early stages of it and whilst I would like RL gone only so it would mean the fanbase could unite, it seems the most credible way of providing longterm safety if the new lot haven't much money to put in.I agree with Phil it seems that all we will get is more of the same but them taking apart a bit of the progress we have made in the last few months.

The worlds wealthy people have taken a real battering and lost loads of disposable cash, so why will they come and drop 10m into us?

LC is a fantastic businessman in his industry and I admire him for that, but with due respect I cant see him affording to put 10m into the club and risk losing it.

[Mole]

Morph all due respect and all that but were those not the words you gave to us a few months back when the Fulthorpe thing was at its height, it may have been even the back end of last season.

I dearly hope you are right but please excuse my cynicism as i really dont mean to question your words.

I have indeed been told a few times by different peoplethat the money is signed up and they are about to procede and then nothing. It is so frustrating.

May i also ask, if you have an ear to the powers that be, if you get rid of RL etc please make sure the whole bl''''y lot are gone, the people who have been in the background for decades feeding on the club and taking perks bvut giving nothing in return.

Thanks

Nick

 

I totally agree with this.

 

We need LOWE OUT.

We need WILDE OUT.

 

When Leon Crouch returns SFC needs a mass clearout.

[OldNick]

Well, you've got Long Shot's word for it that Crouch is not coming back in any executive capacity. So if he and his allies topple Lowe/Wilde, then I guess we will have made at least the first steps towards what you're looking for.

 

I must admit, though, this does sound a bit puzzling.

Unless he is going to install Salz as chairman.

[Roman]

Unless he is going to install Salz as chairman.

 

I'd be very happy with that.

[Delmary]

Morph all due respect and all that but were those not the words you gave to us a few months back when the Fulthorpe thing was at its height, it may have been even the back end of last season.

I dearly hope you are right but please excuse my cynicism as i really dont mean to question your words.

I have indeed been told a few times by different peoplethat the money is signed up and they are about to procede and then nothing. It is so frustrating.

May i also ask, if you have an ear to the powers that be, if you get rid of RL etc please make sure the whole bl''''y lot are gone, the people who have been in the background for decades feeding on the club and taking perks bvut giving nothing in return.

Thanks

Nick

Nail on head.

[Delmary]

Unless he is going to install Salz as chairman.

Salz plc chairman with Paul Thompson chief executive?? Patrick Trant, Mary Corbett & Gavyn Davies non-executive directors?

[OldNick]

Salz plc chairman with Paul Thompson chief executive?? Patrick Trant, Mary Corbett & Gavyn Davies non-executive directors?

that in the maion would be fine by me. As long as all the rest were shipped off and not to darken the clubs door again.

It irks me looking at so many of thise selkf satisfied people in the directors box drawing off the club and giving nothing back.

[thefuriousb]

You could be right, Roman, about civil war but I don't think Crouch is interested in the "club falling into his hands". In fact I hear he is no longer interested in any significant position at SMS other than in his corporate box, but I do think he is very concerned at the direction the club is heading and doing all he can to help prevent what is, under the current stewardship, inevitable administration.

 

We were headed into administration under his stewardship too. Our expenditure over income has been running at approx £1.5m for much of the last 18 months, if not longer.

 

Perhaps he should have shown a little more concern a year ago and address the haemorrhaging then, not let the club continue to slip into a coma.

 

Reducing our costs so that we operate within our income stream is what we should be aiming to do.

 

I'm not saying Lowe and Wilde are the answer, but they are also not the sole reason for our current plight.

[SaintRichmond]

I agreed but the off field events will soon impact negatively on the on field events. Not wanting to be a doom merchant but the credit crunch has not yet peaked, and therefore the club's ability to generate new income over the next 12mths is going to be very challenging or near impossible. I hope the guardians running our club are seriously searching for investment but I worry that Rupert is too focused on retaining power and will take the club to the brink of administration before talking to rival factions who could improve our financial wellbeing during these difficult times.

 

 

That's about the size of it ......... Lowe is for Lowe, Lowe and Lowe ....... He never has, nor ever will, put the needs of the FOOTBALL Club FIRST .....

 

..... He has categorically stated that he works for, and is answerable to, the PLC ........... and THAT major distinction fails to register to many of Saints Football Fans ........ They STILL think that Lowe is back to save our Football Team ... HE IS NOT ....

[thefuriousb]

the falling numbers of "customers" voting with their feet since Lowe and Wilde's return is suggestive that too many don't agree that they are the best people in charge.

 

Attendances are broadly in line with those at the Dell, and we are now in our 4th season in the CCC.

 

The Dell was never sold out for every game played in the league (premiership at that) or cup. When I was not a season ticket holder, I never had a problem getting a ticket for a game.

 

Our "hard core fan base" is and always has been approx 15000

 

The falling number of customers is attributable more to those that came to SMS to see premiership football and/or coupled to, a drop in disposable income.

[Delmary]

Attendances are broadly in line with those at the Dell, and we are now in our 4th season in the CCC.

 

The Dell was never sold out for every game played in the league (premiership at that) or cup. When I was not a season ticket holder, I never had a problem getting a ticket for a game.

 

Our "hard core fan base" is and always has been approx 15000

 

The falling number of customers is attributable more to those that came to SMS to see premiership football and/or coupled to, a drop in disposable income.

The credit crunch is the biggest factor. Edited 8 November, 2008 by Delmary