Dimond Geezer Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 the falklands would be over quicker than last time....in our favourgod knows how many lessons were harshly learned last time that are practiced and practiced again and again since I think something similar was said about Iraq and Afghanistan, and probably will be said about Iran & North Korea when we have a pop at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 probably because they are british islands..??? Actually, I do know that, mate. I was referring to the bloody big base the US has there, and my point was they don't mind the Brits having Diego Garcia because it suits their strategic interests. Didn't make that clear, I know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 I think something similar was said about Iraq and Afghanistan, and probably will be said about Iran & North Korea when we have a pop at them. errrr....yes, iraq and afghanistan are very like a small collection of islands in the middle of no where Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 (edited) errrr....yes, iraq and afghanistan are very like a small collection of islands in the middle of no where The size of the countries is irrelevant, both of these conflicts were supposed to be short-lived, a matter of months IIRC in the case of Iraq (I can't be bothered to look up any quotes). My point is that the government & military bigwigs in this country have a habit of underestimating the opposition, from your comment, it seems to have spread to the rank & file as well. Edited 21 December, 2011 by Dimond Geezer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 The size of the countries make no matter, both of these conflicts were supposed to be short-lived, a matter of months IIRC in the case of Iraq (I can't be bothered to look up any quotes). My point is that the government & military bigwigs in this country have a habit of underestimating the opposition, it seems to have spread to the rank & file as well. ummm...seriously...? there could not be any less similarities between afghanistan and the falklands.. I can assure you, we don't under estimate our potential enemies...that is why are the best at training our forces and why nations from around the world pay for us to train them come to think of it...have you ever worn a uniform...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 Especially as they sold the Argies the Mirages, Super Etendards, and Exocets used in 1982. Parts of the thick-film control circuits for the Exocets were made in Havant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 Onwership of that land is disputed between two ancient peoples with equal claim, imho. Totally different from the Falklands, which have been British since time immemorial. Now please don't exaggerate. Time immemorial dates from 3rd September 1189 and the Falklands have been continuously British since 1833. Argentina's independence was not recognised by Spain until 29th April 1857. We don't need aircraft carriers there now that we have a proper airfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 The UK has very little moral right to the Falklands in reality - I'm sure that if the Isle of Wight had Argentine sovereignity the UK would be up in arms (!) - but very much more so if big reserves of oil were suspected to be within the boundaries. The scale is pretty similar in relative distances per size of country. I'm not suggesting that sovereignity should be fought over but does the UK really have any moral negotiating position? It depends if you believe that it is morally right for a population has the right to self determination. Oh and by the way have a look at the map and see how close the Isle of Wight is to the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 It depends if you believe that it is morally right for a population has the right to self determination. Oh and by the way have a look at the map and see how close the Isle of Wight is to the UK. Yep, more like 450m than 450Km........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 I'd like to address several recent points if I may: The RAF has hundreds of advanced Tornado & Typhoon aircraft - Yes it has, but mainly based in the UK they are no bloody good at all 7000 miles away from the Falklands. Because of the airbase we no longer need aircraft carriers - Again, lose that one fixed runway and the lack of carrier air power could/would become crippling. The RN could retake the Falklands easily - With no proper aircraft carriers or Harriers (flogged off to the yanks for spare parts) air defence of the fleet would rely entirely upon a handful of Type 45 destroyers. The overall number of vital Frigates & Destroyers available for Task Force AAW & ASW defence has more than halved since 82. The RN today is in its weakest state for many centuries. The Argentinian Air Force is weak - It's all relative, unlike the last time we now have precisely no 'Sea Harrier' fighters to oppose them. The Argentine economy is doing surprisingly well of late and plans for a F16 purchase have been mooted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 TLAM would pretty much win the any falklands war on their own......or help in a massive way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 (edited) Nice to see that the future of our colony is non negotiatble. Edited 21 December, 2011 by dune Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperm_john Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 again, its all about the oil, or at least the potential for it ... so no, non negotiable, if we did strike oil, it would pay off our national debt ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperm_john Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 and everyones so focused on the rif raf they are forgetting the subs we have lurking down there ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 again, its all about the oil, or at least the potential for it ... so no, non negotiable, if we did strike oil, it would pay off our national debt ... Have we actually found oil. I remember Desire striking lots of sand and the sp diving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 I'd like to address several recent points if I may: The RAF has hundreds of advanced Tornado & Typhoon aircraft - Yes it has, but mainly based in the UK they are no bloody good at all 7000 miles away from the Falklands. Because of the airbase we no longer need aircraft carriers - Again, lose that one fixed runway and the lack of carrier air power could/would become crippling. The RN could retake the Falklands easily - With no proper aircraft carriers or Harriers (flogged off to the yanks for spare parts) air defence of the fleet would rely entirely upon a handful of Type 45 destroyers. The overall number of vital Frigates & Destroyers available for Task Force AAW & ASW defence has more than halved since 82. The RN today is in its weakest state for many centuries. The Argentinian Air Force is weak - It's all relative, unlike the last time we now have precisely no 'Sea Harrier' fighters to oppose them. The Argentine economy is doing surprisingly well of late and plans for a F16 purchase have been mooted. Except we tried that in the last war with little actual effect with the black buck raids I suppose the argies could try a pebble island style raid on the airstrip at Mount Pleasant but I wouldn't give them much chance (even then pebble island was about destroying aircraft not the airstrip ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 In the Faulkland islands, there wouldn't be any post-war guerilla resistance from locals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkish Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 In the Faulkland islands, there wouldn't be any post-war guerilla resistance from locals. When did you go to the Faulkland Islands to know this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 In the Faulkland islands, there wouldn't be any post-war guerilla resistance from locals. Well guerilla warfare requires certain things like places to hide and a decent sized population to provide logistics and support....not sure the falklands has the right circumstances for guerilla warfare being an island doesn't give you many places to run after the hit..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 In the Faulkland islands, there wouldn't be any post-war guerilla resistance from locals. Ummmmm, you may have a point there.....! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 In the Faulkland islands, there wouldn't be any post-war guerilla resistance from locals. Do you mean the Falkland Islands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohio Saint Posted 21 December, 2011 Share Posted 21 December, 2011 Obama weighed in on this earlier in the year, mostly on the side of the Argentinians. But, but, he comes from a group of islands even farther off the shore than the Falklands are, which was annexed by America! I wonder if he wants to give Hawaii back too? Hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Yes, but in little bits very deep - not the huge easily accessible reservoirs everyone was hoping for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pap Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 But, but, he comes from a group of islands even farther off the shore than the Falklands are, which was annexed by America! I wonder if he wants to give Hawaii back too? Hmmmm Obama is just like the rest of them, imo - blooming hypocrite. It's alright for the Arabs to rise up against their governments but if a US citizen wants to protest about the global financial system, they get a water-cannon sandwich. He'd love to have the UK out of the Falklands because it'd likely be American corporations who swept in to establish the infrastructure and make the moolah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 When did you go to the Faulkland Islands to know this? I don't need to have been to the Falklands to know that the Falklanders want to remain British... hence, unlike Iraq, there would be no post war guerilla resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Well guerilla warfare requires certain things like places to hide and a decent sized population to provide logistics and support....not sure the falklands has the right circumstances for guerilla warfare being an island doesn't give you many places to run after the hit..... Slash the locals wouldn't object to us protecting them from an Argentinian takeover! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farawaysaint Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Falklands belong to the Argies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Except we tried that in the last war with little actual effect with the black buck raids I suppose the argies could try a pebble island style raid on the airstrip at Mount Pleasant but I wouldn't give them much chance (even then pebble island was about destroying aircraft not the airstrip ) If memory serves, Pebble Island was a simple grass landing strip for light aircraft only - quite a different matter to MPA. On the wider point, if there is one bloody lesson the long history of warfare teaches us, it is that you must never underestimate the opposition. Would it be a easy matter for the argies to successfully invade the Falklands again - absolutely not. Would it be impossible for them to devise a method of damaging that crucial runway for a day or so ....... well the yanks thought that the Japanese would never dare to attack Pearl Harbour didn't they ? Our whole defensive strategy for the Falklands depends upon that one runway - I suggest that reliance represents a point of vulnerability that a audacious enemy could exploit to their advantage one day. I say the decision by the current government to abandon our 'Carrier Strike' capability for a decade (or more) in the last defence review was a strategically dangerous one. A reckless decision that didn't save that much money in the grand scheme of things, and one that may well come back to bite us one day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint in Paradise Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Falklands belong to the Argies Ah TSWs very own Corp Ho has spoken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sussexsaint Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Ah TSWs very own Corp Ho has spoken By his own admission though he is a skate boarder champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 ummm...seriously...? there could not be any less similarities between afghanistan and the falklands.. I can assure you, we don't under estimate our potential enemies...that is why are the best at training our forces and why nations from around the world pay for us to train them come to think of it...have you ever worn a uniform...? Ummm... yes seriously. You said "the falklands would be over quicker than last time....in our favour", I don't know why the size of the theatre of war has any bearing on inaccurate estimations as to the length of the war. As a nation we have consistently underestimated how long all of the recent conflicts will take. As as example I'll use the recent Libyan conflict, it started in March when we were told it would last until June, it fact it continued until October, which to me looks like an underestimation. I'm not sure why you have brought our ability to train other nations forces into this, my sole point was regarding your statement I've quoted above, over confidence is not a good trait, neither is it condusive to a favourable outcome. The answer to you question is yes, although, again, I'm not sure of the relevance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimond Geezer Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Falklands belong to the Argies Idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Falklands belong to the Argies Oh no they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Falklands belong to the Argies nope, and they never have. Even their 3 month occupation in 1982 was ruled illegal under international law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 I don't need to have been to the Falklands to know that the Falklanders want to remain British... hence, unlike Iraq, there would be no post war guerilla resistance. At least you've now learnt how to spell it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Found this website not exactly scientific but it attempts to rank countries by military power http://www.globalfirepower.com/ The UK is ranked 5th in the world Argentina is ranked 31st in the world Ultimatly as long as the British goverment has the political will I can't see how Britian can end up losing to Argentina in a war over the islands we have a bigger navy, airforce and army with better equipment (despite all the cutbacks) than Argentina has (whose military is smaller now than it was in the last war). Argentina knows it as well. The last war showed that the UK has the political will to keep the islands, the last war was fought becuase the Argentinan goverment at the time thought the UK wouldn't fight to get the islands back. I can't see Argentina invading any time soon it won't stop them posturing for home consumption though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Found this website not exactly scientific but it attempts to rank countries by military power http://www.globalfirepower.com/ The UK is ranked 5th in the world Argentina is ranked 31st in the world Ultimatly as long as the British goverment has the political will I can't see how Britian can end up losing to Argentina in a war over the islands we have a bigger navy, airforce and army with better equipment (despite all the cutbacks) than Argentina has (whose military is smaller now than it was in the last war). Argentina knows it as well. The last war showed that the UK has the political will to keep the islands, the last war was fought becuase the Argentinan goverment at the time thought the UK wouldn't fight to get the islands back. I can't see Argentina invading any time soon it won't stop them posturing for home consumption though. I have analysed this and concluded that we should invade Qatar - in time for the World Cup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Gotsmanov Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Falklands belong to the Argies Stick to Skate boarding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 22 December, 2011 Share Posted 22 December, 2011 Stick to Skate boarding Is that where you get a Pompey supporter on the ground and pour buckets of cold water over him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 24 December, 2011 Share Posted 24 December, 2011 Fair enough - didn't realise it was that far off the coast. And yep, self-determination trumps the lot. Unless you live in Taiwan or Tibet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuengirola Saint Posted 24 December, 2011 Share Posted 24 December, 2011 . However we must be careful not to overlook such posturing, and to be seen to ignore it. That was the mistake Thatcher made before 1982 with similar posturing, encouraging Argentina to think we wouldn't react to an invasion. That mistake cost many lives and many millions of pounds in a war that might never have happened had the UK reacted more strongly earlier. ) You don't honestly believe that was a mistake on the British governments part do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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