david in sweden Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 (edited) Second highest scorer in the squad. Second highest assists in the squad. He does not deserve this heavy criticism. He is in the team on merit. Most of the division would be happy to have him in the team. What a fickle lot many of you are. I agree. I like him, too but he's scored only once in the last 6 games, Lambert has scored 6 in the 5 games he played in. ( absent v. Doncaster.) But strikers should be scoring goals ! Don't think that NA wouldn't have left him on the bench - if Barnard or Connolly had been fit. (They'd have eaten some of the chances we've missed in the last month). Edited 18 December, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junction 9 Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 I'm not totally against the fella as he can be a real asset for us. The main gripe for me today was why he wasn't subbed? I cant believe Adkins can stand there watching that performance and not think that ANYONE on the bench couldn't have done a better job. Cannot get my head round it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Seems very fashionable to hurl abuse at Gully these days. Doncaster away was the worst for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 I'm not totally against the fella as he can be a real asset for us. The main gripe for me today was why he wasn't subbed? I cant believe Adkins can stand there watching that performance and not think that ANYONE on the bench couldn't have done a better job. Cannot get my head round it. Because he doesn't think there's anyone on the bench that can do a better job. He doesn't trust SDR, that's pretty obvious. He's not been bad all year, but the funny thing with Guly is that when he's bad he's awful, yet when he's good he's a bloody genius. I guess he's the sort of player you need to take the rough and the smooth with, and you have to say that he's contributed to more good things than bad things this year. I would be nice to have something else on the bench to throw up top though when Guly is having an off day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Seems very fashionable to hurl abuse at Gully these days. Doncaster away was the worst for it. FFS. Why is giving justifiable criticism to a player after a bad performance hurling abuse because it is fashionable? A player is not immune from criticism after a poor performance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Seems very fashionable to hurl abuse at Gully these days. Doncaster away was the worst for it.[/quote] I think it's sad, too... but he is a striker ..and he's not scoring. Beattie and Rasiak got a lot of stick when they weren't scoring! (it's their job) The reason we lost at Doncaster wasn't only Guly's fault it was because that we didn't have a fit Lambert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Yes we are only top of the league FS, apparently we need to sack off Guly and get in a Benali type who go through players whilst also somehow creating and scoring goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Second highest scorer in the squad. Second highest assists in the squad. He does not deserve this heavy criticism. He is in the team on merit. Most of the division would be happy to have him in the team. What a fickle lot many of you are. Totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanadaSaint Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 I think the views have generally been quite balanced. Guly brings us some valuable things - especially at home, but he was p*ss poor today, seemed to lack commitment, and his error was a major factor in their utterly needless equalizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Seems very fashionable to hurl abuse at Gully these days. Doncaster away was the worst for it.he certainly got more stick than he deserved that day, but in the Hull game he played as badly as I have ever seen and yet git clapped off by many (I don't boo, but I certainly didn't get out of my seat or clap him that's for sure). He blows hot and cold, he was cold today, but when he is hot, he is some player. For that reason he starts until we get a new striker in. Barnard will run all day, but he just doesn't offer the quality required IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 In the 3 away games I've seen him play (today included) he has been terrible and a liability, whereas the 3 home games he's been decent. Maybe we should only play him at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Exactly the type of attitude that annoys me even more. This is not the first time he has been a waste of space for an entire game. If you are happy with that, then more the fool you. I am more than happy with Gulys overall performance this season. Second highest scorer and second in assists. What I am not happy with is the witch-hunt by certain posters on here who will only see the negatives and never the positives with him. He didn`t have a good game today admittedly, but to blame him completely for only drawing today is illogical and short-sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 I think the views have generally been quite balanced. Guly brings us some valuable things - especially at home, but he was p*ss poor today, seemed to lack commitment, and his error was a major factor in their utterly needless equalizer. Amazingly I totally agree with you. I'm not sure why some posters feel that you are not allowed to criticise a player. What does being top of the league or previous good performances have to do with this performance that was very poor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 In the 3 away games I've seen him play (today included) he has been terrible and a liability, whereas the 3 home games he's been decent. Maybe we should only play him at home. He does seem to struggle in the away games for sure. Similar to most foreign players I guess, tight, dark, damp grounds in the lower leagues of English football don't set the pulses racing for these foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 I am more than happy with Gulys overall performance this season. Second highest scorer and second in assists. What I am not happy with is the witch-hunt by certain posters on here who will only see the negatives and never the positives with him. He didn`t have a good game today admittedly, but to blame him completely for only drawing today is illogical and short-sighted. A very small minority are blaming him completely for the draw, though he contributed a significant part. He was very poor today though, our worst player by quite a difference and didn't show the same desire as the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miserableoldgit Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 A very small minority are blaming him completely for the draw, though he contributed a significant part. He was very poor today though, our worst player by quite a difference and didn't show the same desire as the others. I am a great admirer of Guly, and I admit that he had a bad game today but I think to dismiss him as useless and a waste of space, as many have been doing all this season is as I said before, stupid and illogical. Other players have off spells and don`t the vitriolic reation that he does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 FFS. Why is giving justifiable criticism to a player after a bad performance hurling abuse because it is fashionable? A player is not immune from criticism after a poor performance! It wasn't after though? People we singing 'Gully off, Barnard on'. And shouting 'strong' abuse at his whilst he was near the away end. And you could see him looking over to the away end, embarrassing. Every has outbursts of fustration from time to time at the players/team, but to be singing for a player to go off is wrong in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 It wasn't after though? People we singing 'Gully off, Barnard on'. And shouting 'strong' abuse at his whilst he was near the away end. And you could see him looking over to the away end, embarrassing. Every has outbursts of fustration from time to time at the players/team, but to be singing for a player to go off is wrong in my opinion. Part of that was because of the pressure of the situation. Of course people are going to be more frustrated when someone does something stupid against the skates. I'm sure the players understood before the game that the fans would be less understanding. Guly was terrible and I swore at him after he had given it away for about the fifth time. It's the skates FFS we don't need that sh*t from a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint_clark Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Although i'm annoyed he bottled it today...i'd imagine this was the first time in his career he's played in such a hostile atmosphere. He's only been in the country just over a year don't forget! He'll learn and improve. Stick with him and Lambert up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orange Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Part of that was because of the pressure of the situation. Of course people are going to be more frustrated when someone does something stupid against the skates. I'm sure the players understood before the game that the fans would be less understanding. Guly was terrible and I swore at him after he had given it away for about the fifth time. It's the skates FFS we don't need that sh*t from a player. I was talking about Doncaster in terms of abuse during the game. Having said that, there was plenty today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintrich Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 He made a great run second half and Lallana ignorned him and messed the chance up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macey_J2 Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 If a player's playing ****, get him off. Guly should have come off at half time. He's gone off the boil in the last month or so, his touch has turned to nothing, and his jumping, let alone heading has been woeful, as was shown up at the worst possible time that ended up in the equaliser today. I'm happy to say when he's playing well, but he was poor against blackpool, yes he scored (one good touch out of a whole match?!), but was poor for the rest of the match. He also seemed to be playing well with the one touch stuff when connolly was fit and playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 What is wrong with giving praise where it is due and also criticising when due? Previous good peformances doesn't make him immune from criticism when he has an awful game, particularly when that awful game is against Portsmouth. Yes, but he is massively over-criticized, which is puzzling. He did not play well today, granted - a scrapping derby was never going to be his style of game in the same way that it suited someone like Hammond. The responsibility for conceding the equalizer shouldn't be leveled at Guly shutting it down at the near post - have a look what happened in the lead up. Harding tamely conceded the corner when he could easily have cleared into touch or upfield, and one of our defenders (Fonte I think) was beaten to the first header from the resultant corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 I was talking about Doncaster in terms of abuse during the game. Having said that, there was plenty today. It's been coming. It's not like he was just rubbish on that occasion, he's been average from day 1 and below average a lot lately. It's a cumulative reaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Yes, but he is massively over-criticized, which is puzzling. He did not play well today, granted - a scrapping derby was never going to be his style of game in the same way that it suited someone like Hammond. The responsibility for conceding the equalizer shouldn't be leveled at Guly shutting it down at the near post - have a look what happened in the lead up. Harding tamely conceded the corner when he could easily have cleared into touch or upfield, and one of our defenders (Fonte I think) was beaten to the first header from the resultant corner. Having a hand in them conceding was the cherry on top of a frankly terrible performance. What do you mean by over-criticised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Frankly I'm disappointed it's taken a howler like that in a derby game for people to speak up about him. I was called crazy for criticising him after the Hull game. I cannot emphasise enough how disappointing he was - people forget the first 45 minutes of that game just because he scored in the second, which took him two attempts. He needs to get his act together and quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Frankly I'm disappointed it's taken a howler like that in a derby game for people to speak up about him. I was called crazy for criticising him after the Hull game. I cannot emphasise enough how disappointing he was - people forget the first 45 minutes of that game just because he scored in the second, which took him two attempts. He needs to get his act together and quick. I've been moaning about him since I saw him at Swindon away. I think it was his first game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
austsaint Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Having a hand in them conceding was the cherry on top of a frankly terrible performance. What do you mean by over-criticised? He had a poor game - no doubting that. By "over-criticized" I mean that Guly's poorer games or mistakes seem to be pounced upon while poor games and errors from players like Hammond (who was very good today) are largely overlooked. But we've all got fixed ideas about players - I admit I can't abide Harding as a Championship player - I see him as a ball watching, panicky light weight and probably nothing he could do in the future would change that assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 having looked at the replays he'd of done well to have won that header. He had to go whole hog, but as soon as he looked at the player coming towards him it was all over. At that point all he could have done was take one for the team and in all honesty the number of Saints players that I'd put money on doing that decreases a little bit. In other words I blame him far less than the cock on BBC did several times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 He had a poor game - no doubting that. By "over-criticized" I mean that Guly's poorer games or mistakes seem to be pounced upon while poor games and errors from players like Hammond (who was very good today) are largely overlooked. But we've all got fixed ideas about players - I admit I can't abide Harding as a Championship player - I see him as a ball watching, panicky light weight and probably nothing he could do in the future would change that assessment. The fact is we control the midfield in most games and don't capitalise on that dominance enough in most away games and 9/10 it's Guly trying one of Leme beach fancy tricks when a simple lay off is the better option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 I've been moaning about him since I saw him at Swindon away. I think it was his first game.Bristol Rovers away where he fell over his own feet (after a massive build up by fans, followed by laughing Saints) and looked like a fish out of water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 The fact is we control the midfield in most games and don't capitalise on that dominance enough in most away games and 9/10 it's Guly trying one of Leme beach fancy tricks when a simple lay off is the better option.most fans seem to moan at him when he doesn't chase aimless hoofs like they did with BWP. That said the failed fancy flicks do annoy, but its the poor first touch that gets my gripe. At this level your touch needs to be spot on and at times his isn't. That lack of control deserves a moan. It is the bare minimum an attacking player earning thousands should have in his locker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyer Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 As a neutral watching the game, he cost the team 2 points because he was scared of a challenge. He doesnt even have to win the header, just make sure the pompey player cant win it cleanly. He even turned his back on the challenge. That should be something thats totally unacceptable at any level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Exactly. What do people want him to do? Ask to be substituted? He actually wasn't that bad. His running off the ball was good, would have scored but for a good save from their keeper, actually won quite a few headers and drew a lot of fouls. Pretty sure he was the one chopped down for their players booking when he would have otherwise put Richardson clean through on the right-wing. I haven't yet read the rest of this thread, but I really felt the need to respond to this post. Guly recently DID ask to be substituted. His running was lazy. He rarely even jumped for the headers he should have been winning. His first touch was abysmal. He didn't look the slightest bit interested. Not ****ing good enough for a promotion chasing team, even if he does pull out a nice trick once in every 5 games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGTL Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 He did have a mare, but I couldn't bring myself to criticise him at the game because he was in red and white, and for me today that was all that mattered. Our lads got enough sh*t of their pikey ****s, without us lot adding to it, no matter how deserved it was. Each to their own, just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Fan CaM Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Guly was a complete liability today. Ball control poor - can't head the ball - bottles a 50/50 challenge that leads to their goal. Adkins is starting to worry me a bit - he surely should have subbed Guly for SDR to pack out the midfield after we went 0-1 up?! That would have been the best option to stiffle their play and provide a pacey outlet to hit them on the break. I'm getting a little sick and tired of all the tip tapping around the edge of the box too now - being too pretty is what's costing us games - SHOOT FFS! We REALLY need a new striker in January because Guly, Barnie and Connolly are not going to be enough to get us to the end of the season in the autos. Word is it's Sharp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Diamond Posted 18 December, 2011 Share Posted 18 December, 2011 Bristol Rovers away where he fell over his own feet (after a massive build up by fans, followed by laughing Saints) and looked like a fish out of water. The commentary team that day immediately decided he was being played out of position, having never seen him play before - what does that tell you? most fans seem to moan at him when he doesn't chase aimless hoofs like they did with BWP. That said the failed fancy flicks do annoy, but its the poor first touch that gets my gripe. At this level your touch needs to be spot on and at times his isn't. That lack of control deserves a moan. It is the bare minimum an attacking player earning thousands should have in his locker. Spot on. Hull game - he does a star jump trying to get to it when he could easily have dropped back a few centimetres for it to land at his feet, or bent back to chest it. He falls over on the floor, the defender takes it in his stride and they're off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 (edited) To all of those defending Guly I am assuming you all have jobs? In any job you are given feedback. If you have worked well then you receive positive feedback generally if you have fallen short then your receive negative feedback and in some instances are slated for it. Guly has a job in fact a very good job he's a highly paid professional. The performance that he put in yesterday was not professional, the effort he put in was effectively me turning up to work with a hangover which yes I have done before. However if my manager has found out I have been severely slated. Guly deserves all the criticism that he is receiving, why should we not moan or say anything after such a poor performance? If he can't take the criticism then he shouldn't be on £10,000 a week or whatever he is on. I don't care who the player is and if they put in so little effort as shown yesterday by Guly in such an important match then I am going to criticise him for it. Yes he may have played well in other games but he was s*** yesterday absolute s*** and deserves all the justified criticism he is now receiving. Edited 19 December, 2011 by Saintjersey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manji Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Yes we are only top of the league FS, apparently we need to sack off Guly and get in a Benali type who go through players whilst also somehow creating and scoring goals. Anyone remember when Benali was the team "scapegoat" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustMike Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Valid point but because he "looked lazy" at points during the game, people on here won't recognise it as one.lazy at points? ? He was lazy the whole game! His first touch was worse than Jaidi's, he gave the ball away far too often. He just looked uninterested all game, which has happened too often recently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Is he actually 'lazy' or is that just the way a lot of Brazilian players play? Or is that an outdated stereotype? There are people in my office that look busy, beavering away all day, huffing and puffing but not actually achieving anything outstanding. Then there's the really clever chap who sits in the corner looking like he's not doing much for days on end but once in a while he'll stun us with a superb design idea. A team needs a blend of all types from the 'huff and puff beaverer' at one end of the scale to the 'flawed genius' at the other. Maybe Guly is more 'flawed' than 'genius'. Maybe not. Just an observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Is he actually 'lazy' or is that just the way a lot of Brazilian players play? Or is that an outdated stereotype? There are people in my office that look busy, beavering away all day, huffing and puffing but not actually achieving anything outstanding. Then there's the really clever chap who sits in the corner looking like he's not doing much for days on end but once in a while he'll stun us with a superb design idea. A team needs a blend of all types from the 'huff and puff beaverer' at one end of the scale to the 'flawed genius' at the other. Maybe Guly is more 'flawed' than 'genius'. Maybe not. Just an observation. Salient points and you could actually have been talking about Matt Le Tiss as well ! I don't think anyone is saying that he had a good game yesterday but some of the reactions are way over the top ! Maybe we should boo him at the Palace match, that should sort it !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Is he actually 'lazy' or is that just the way a lot of Brazilian players play? Or is that an outdated stereotype? There are people in my office that look busy, beavering away all day, huffing and puffing but not actually achieving anything outstanding. Then there's the really clever chap who sits in the corner looking like he's not doing much for days on end but once in a while he'll stun us with a superb design idea. A team needs a blend of all types from the 'huff and puff beaverer' at one end of the scale to the 'flawed genius' at the other. Maybe Guly is more 'flawed' than 'genius'. Maybe not. Just an observation. How many other Brazilian players can you think of who are as laid back and unenthusiastic as Guly? It's a trait of the player, not where he was born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trousers Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 How many other Brazilian players can you think of who are as laid back and unenthusiastic as Guly? It's a trait of the player, not where he was born. Ok, fair enough. But regardless of origin (genetic or otherwise), is it wrong, per se, to have a player of is calibre (i.e. closer to the "flawed genius" end of the scale than the "huff and puff beaverer" end of the scale) in the team? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 He had a poor game - no doubting that. By "over-criticized" I mean that Guly's poorer games or mistakes seem to be pounced upon while poor games and errors from players like Hammond (who was very good today) are largely overlooked. But we've all got fixed ideas about players - I admit I can't abide Harding as a Championship player - I see him as a ball watching, panicky light weight and probably nothing he could do in the future would change that assessment. TBH I haven't seen Hammond play as badly as Guly did today. Maybe if Hammond played a match when he had such an obviously poor game, then we would be saying similar things about him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Ok, fair enough. But regardless of origin (genetic or otherwise), is it wrong, per se, to have a player of is calibre (i.e. closer to the "flawed genius" end of the scale than the "huff and puff beaverer" end of the scale) in the team? Course not, but it's the specific way that Guly plays at times that I object to, not every flawed genius (if that is a valid player type.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eurosaint Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Course not, but it's the specific way that Guly plays at times that I object to, not every flawed genius (if that is a valid player type.) Some players display a different body language to others, MLT had a 'languid' style and Guly (albeit not in the same class!) has similar characteristics ! It doesn't mean that he comes off the field without having broken sweat !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Ok, fair enough. But regardless of origin (genetic or otherwise), is it wrong, per se, to have a player of is calibre (i.e. closer to the "flawed genius" end of the scale than the "huff and puff beaverer" end of the scale) in the team? I agree that you need a mix of both, but for a "flawed genius" to have flaws such as: -dreadful first touch -no composure -zero commitment to win a header these are basics at this level. I've watched the game back on Sky+ this morning. In the 2nd half, pretty much every time Guly got on or near the ball, he gave it away Not good enough for a team's 'genius' at any level. And to bottle a header as he did for their goal, in any game, let alone one this big, is embarrassing. He cost us a win at Fratton Park at the end of the day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 Some players display a different body language to others, MLT had a 'languid' style and Guly (albeit not in the same class!) has similar characteristics ! It doesn't mean that he comes off the field without having broken sweat !! Jack above sums it up better than I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 19 December, 2011 Share Posted 19 December, 2011 I was called crazy for criticising him after the Hull game. I cannot emphasise enough how disappointing he was - people forget the first 45 minutes of that game just because he scored in the second, which took him two attempts. I'm not sure why anyone was calling you crazy, crazy. One of the worst displays I have ever seen in a Saints shirt. On the flip side though he has put in some displays that are right up there, all be it not at the very top level. He is just one o those players that blows hot and cold. He needs plenty of space to work in as his first touch is not spot on, but given that room he can be very effective. I'm nit sure I've seen him do it away from home except at Dagenham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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