UK Unemployment at 17 year high

[pap]

2.64m people are currently out of work. That's 8.3% of the working population and doesn't include kept women like Ms Pap ( who is actually looking for work, but can't get any assistance because she's not on benefits and not a priority ).

 

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel on this?

 

Is the government doing enough?

 

What steps would you take to address the problem?

[dune]

I'm afraid that all the Eastern Europeans that have flooded in and taken our jobs has made an easy remedy difficult. My remedy would be to introduce an immigrants tax payable by employers, or a reduction in employer NI contributions for indiginous people. This would reduce unemployment and would discourage immigrants from settling. I would also stop benefits for immigrants to encourage them to go back where they came from.

 

Clearly we would need to leave the EU to achieve this.

Edited 14 December, 2011 by dune

[trousers]

2.64m people are currently out of work. That's 8.3% of the working population and doesn't include kept women like Ms Pap ( who is actually looking for work, but can't get any assistance because she's not on benefits and not a priority ).

 

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel on this?

 

Is the government doing enough?

 

What steps would you take to address the problem?

 

The article goes on to suggest that things aren't as bad as perhaps the headline figures show and that 'hanging on in there' through the storm might be the best policy...but there again...who knows...?

 

Economists said there were tentative signs the deterioration in the labour market was slowing, if not reversing.

 

The more recent data on the number of people out of work and signing on for benefits rose less than feared last month. The claimant count went up by 3,000, well below the 14,900 forecast by economists."

 

Clearly the labour data are deteriorating, but much more slowly than the recent pace and not as badly as previously feared," said Alan Clarke, economist at Scotia Capital.

 

"So while that is consistent with a picture of the economy growing below trend, it may well be telling us that things aren't actually that terrible and could be a clue that the economy hasn't yet slipped into recession."

 

The ONS also released data on public sector job cuts. As the government's austerity drive continued, the number of people employed in the public sector fell by 67,000 between June and September, with the majority of those job cuts in local government.

 

The coalition has been hoping to rebalance the labour market towards the private sector, but that added only 5,000 jobs over the same period. It was the second consecutive quarter that growth in employment in the private sector did not offset the drop in the public sector.

 

Still, there were more encouraging figures for the government for the year as a whole. Private sector employment was up 262,000 on a year earlier, while public sector employment was down by 276,000.

 

Most unlike the Guardian to highlight the negative rather than the positive in their headline.... ;-)

Edited 14 December, 2011 by trousers

[Gingeletiss]

2.64m people are currently out of work. That's 8.3% of the working population and doesn't include kept women like Ms Pap ( who is actually looking for work, but can't get any assistance because she's not on benefits and not a priority ).

 

Is there any light at the end of the tunnel on this?

 

Is the government doing enough?

 

What steps would you take to address the problem?

 

Pull out of Europe...send all the Eastern Europeans back home....Make every abled bodied benefit claiment work for their benefits...or, stop benefits and issue vouchers, thus all the idle so and so's, would feel obliged to take up the low paid work currently being done by those Eastern Europeans, being sent home!!

[dune]

Shock employment data reveals that migrants got 150,000 jobs, whilst an alarming 280,000 British workers lost theirs.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/284200/Migrants-grab-12-000-jobs-a-month

[Window Cleaner]

Shock employment data reveals that migrants got 150,000 jobs, whilst an alarming 280,000 British workers lost theirs.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/284200/Migrants-grab-12-000-jobs-a-month

 

But why ??

[Lord Duckhunter]

There's only a limitted amount any Govt can do. Govt job creation schemes are expensive and rarely lead to long term sustainable jobs, unless they are jobs in the public sector.

 

The public sector is already too bloated but it should have been dealt with during the "boom years". In my opinion the time to make efficiencies and to cut public sector jobs is when the private sector are creating jobs. Labour bottled the reforms needed, when there were jobs in the private sector, and the coalition now have to do it when the outlook is bleak.

 

My personal opinion is that Labour mishandled the boom years,even more so than they mismanged the bust.Welfare needed sorting out and Frank Field was brought in to do so. They had whopping great majorities and are the only party that could have the political ground to do so. They completely and utterly bottled it and seemed more intent to be permanently fighting the next election, rather than do what was right.What we see now is the result of years of an overbloated public sector, a generous welfare system that encouraged people to stay at home, and the lack of political will to sort things out.

 

5 years ago, I had full time job vaccancies that paid just above the minimum wage. All I could get to work these jobs were Poles. There were no English people applying unless they were complete and utter drop outs.This was mainly down to them loosing their benefits and being just as well off on the dole. I bet there are some people in the area that have been unemplyed for 5+ years, that are now blaming the recession.

 

Now the Govt's hands are pretty much tied together. There is no other way, except for creating jobs with Govt money. Doing that brings us round and round to where we are. It's really sad for the hard working people looking for work now, but they are the inevitable casualties of a failed system.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Pull out of Europe...send all the Eastern Europeans back home....Make every abled bodied benefit claiment work for their benefits...or, stop benefits and issue vouchers, thus all the idle so and so's, would feel obliged to take up the low paid work currently being done by those Eastern Europeans, being sent home!!

 

No way, my Poles were the best workers I had. Willing to work any hours and do as much O/T as I could throw at them. My Company would suffer if I had to get rid of them and give the jobs to English people who were forced to do the work.

[dune]

But why ??

 

Employers don't want our young adults.

 

The question is what has gone wrong - is it bad parenting or bad education in secondary schools?

[Gingeletiss]

No way, my Poles were the best workers I had. Willing to work any hours and do as much O/T as I could throw at them. My Company would suffer if I had to get rid of them and give the jobs to English people who were forced to do the work.

 

I appreciate that they are good workers, but we are an island nation, they take up space, jobs, and resourses. The population of London, is as great as the population of Australia.............we are FULL!

[Window Cleaner]

The population of London, is as great as the population of Australia.............we are FULL!

 

 

Which is why of course a house the size of a cardboard shoe box (and probably made of similar material) costs you what 400K in London's suburbs.

[View From The Top]

Pull out of Europe...send all the Eastern Europeans back home....Make every abled bodied benefit claiment work for their benefits...or, stop benefits and issue vouchers, thus all the idle so and so's, would feel obliged to take up the low paid work currently being done by those Eastern Europeans, being sent home!!

 

So my Slovakian neighbours, who have lived here 6 years, whose kids are as English as mine, who both work full time in decent jobs, who love living here and consider it home, should be deported so a Brit be forced to do their jobs?

 

I can see employers across the nation rushing to sack their hard working Eastern Europeans and welcoming Brits with open arms. No, really, I can, they'll think it's a great Idea.

[Lord Duckhunter]

 

I can see employers across the nation rushing to sack their hard working Eastern Europeans and welcoming Brits with open arms. No, really, I can, they'll think it's a great Idea.

 

Exactly.......

 

Why should I get rid of my hard working, easy to manage Poles, and replace them with people forced to work, who dont really want to?

 

It is not my job to install a hard working positive attitude into workshy wasters. That's the job of their parents and the education system. If I had a choice, I'd even replace some of my English workers with more Poles.I've got blokes who do the bare minimum, wont do O/T because it effects their WFTC and keep moaning at The Poles that they're "showing them up", with their hard working attitude.........

[doddisalegend]

I appreciate that they are good workers, but we are an island nation, they take up space, jobs, and resourses. The population of London, is as great as the population of Australia.............we are FULL!

 

So why not keep the hard working Immigrants and kick out the job shy benefit scroungers.....

[doddisalegend]

Exactly.......

 

Why should I get rid of my hard working, easy to manage Poles, and replace them with people forced to work, who dont really want to?

 

It is not my job to install a hard working positive attitude into workshy wasters. That's the job of their parents and the education system. If I had a choice, I'd even replace some of my English workers with more Poles.I've got blokes who do the bare minimum, wont do O/T because it effects their WFTC and keep moaning at The Poles that they're "showing them up", with their hard working attitude.........

 

I had all my overtime taken away becuase the company couldn't afford it...can't believe people would turn it down in the current climate.

[dune]

I think schools should teach employment attitude studies. Managing directors should be brought in (tax breaks for their businesses if they spare the time) to give lectures on a regular basis.

[pap]

I think we all work too much anyway.

 

Four day week for all would give parents more time with their kids, and generate jobs.

[Window Cleaner]

So why not keep the hard working Immigrants and kick out the job shy benefit scroungers.....

 

Yep, all we need for that is another almost empty island of about Australia's size.Needs to be somewhere where English is the

principal language and they have the X-Factor on TV though.

This is one of the UK's problems the vast majority of it's "workers" are not internationally mobile.

[Gingeletiss]

So why not keep the hard working Immigrants and kick out the job shy benefit scroungers.....

 

I can live with that!

[Window Cleaner]

I think we all work too much anyway.

 

Four day week for all would give parents more time with their kids, and generate jobs.

 

Well hello to you Mme Aubry, a fat lot of good the 35 hour week did us here in France. The theory behind this was that if everybody worked 4 hours less (about 10% of previous working time) each week for the same salary a total of 10% of the total number of jobs would be created "en plus". All it's done is too cost employers more for less, they haven't created many new posts for several reasons.The main one being that it has shown that even by working 10% less the same amount of work can be done anyway,especially in the public sector. What it has done is deprive the majority of French workers of any significant pay rises,I work for the EU,I get about 2% cost of living rises plus merit bonuses, my wife works for the French Government and gets pay rises of just 1% or so each year.

Combined with a minimum wage of 9.19 euros an hour the 35 hr week has totally destroyed France's ability to create jobs without public funds being invested in them.

[pap]

Well hello to you Mme Aubry, a fat lot of good the 35 hour week did us here in France. The theory behind this was that if everybody worked 4 hours less (about 10% of previous working time) each week for the same salary a total of 10% of the total number of jobs would be created "en plus". All it's done is too cost employers more for less, they haven't created many new posts for several reasons.The main one being that it has shown that even by working 10% less the same amount of work can be done anyway,especially in the public sector. What it has done is deprive the majority of French workers of any significant pay rises,I work for the EU,I get about 2% cost of living rises plus merit bonuses, my wife works for the French Government and gets pay rises of just 1% or so each year.

Combined with a minimum wage of 9.19 euros an hour the 35 hr week has totally destroyed France's ability to create jobs without public funds being invested in them.

 

35 hours isn't a four day week though, is it?

 

My official commitment is 37.5 hours a week. I end up going over that a lot.

 

There is no good reason why anyone on this planet should need to work more than four days in any given week.

[Gingeletiss]

35 hours isn't a four day week though, is it?

 

My official commitment is 37.5 hours a week. I end up going over that a lot.

 

There is no good reason why anyone on this planet should need to work more than four days in any given week.

 

Try 55 hours, and no thanks for it!

[pap]

Try 55 hours, and no thanks for it!

 

Understand mate - I work with computers, and have worked for some right basts in my time. Long hours culture, no overtime payments, complete codshyte.

 

These days, I bill for every hour - but there are some right p*ss-takers out there.

[Window Cleaner]

35 hours isn't a four day week though, is it?

 

My official commitment is 37.5 hours a week. I end up going over that a lot.

 

There is no good reason why anyone on this planet should need to work more than four days in any given week.

 

But that's how it boils down, people who work over their 35 hours have what is commonly known as RTT (recuperation temps du travail). Because of the needs of most enterprises and government departments you can't just work 7 hours each day so you run over, then you have to take days off to catch it up because it's time that cannot by law be financially compensated.Loads of people here work 8-18 hrs (lunchtime doesn't count) Mon-Friday and then need to take time off every other week. It's a system that doesn't work very well in practice although it does in theory. Mme Aubry is a socialist dreamer and only the theory counts for her.

Edited 14 December, 2011 by Window Cleaner

[JackFrost]

We need to start producing things and manufacturing things again.

 

Invest in apprenticeships (The coalition has to an extent but it isn't enough) and create opportunities for people to learn practical skills on the job.

 

Get rid of the joke degrees like golf course design and wine tasting studies. University needs to be elitist, make it a place where hard workers go who want to be doctors/lawyers etc. etc.

 

I never fail to see the irony of students wailing about how the government are getting rid of their EMA just to turn up to college, and then wondering why there are so few opportunities around

[Window Cleaner]

We need to start producing things and manufacturing things again.

 

Invest in apprenticeships (The coalition has to an extent but it isn't enough) and create opportunities for people to learn practical skills on the job.

 

Get rid of the joke degrees like golf course design and wine tasting studies. University needs to be elitist, make it a place where hard workers go who want to be doctors/lawyers etc. etc.

 

I never fail to see the irony of students wailing about how the government are getting rid of their EMA just to turn up to college, and then wondering why there are so few opportunities around

 

What you need is to put all those tech college 'universities' back to what they are ..tech colleges, start putting them back to City + Guilds and HNDs and whatever and leave the real Unis to people who are intelligent enough and have the capacities to

partake of serious study.

[Gingeletiss]

What you need is to put all those tech college 'universities' back to what they are ..tech colleges, start putting them back to City + Guilds and HNDs and whatever and leave the real Unis to people who are intelligent enough and have the capacities to

partake of serious study.

 

Well said, but it will never happen, as the libreral thinking fools in this country, believe we are all equal, when it plainly obvious, that we are not.

[Viking Warrior]

It is sad to many are unemployed however the media love to play about with the headline banner

 

Did you last month was the highest figure for 17 years as was the month before that and the month before that. next month it will be a 17 year high.

 

What the media should do is do an analysis on each month to see hw much it is increasing or slowing down

 

FFS get the media to put the figures in to perspective. I wonder what the true figure is as succesive governments have hidden the true fugure. Labour did it by mofing those on the unemployed stats to diasbility allownace/;long term sick

 

OH Morrisons today annouced that they are creating 7000 new jobs around Britain,

 

Lies Lies and dam statistics

 

PS on the more doom and gloom front alcohol is very bad for you this time of year , Christmas food is bad for you

according to all the studies released to day by various bodies

[trousers]

Meanwhile.....on planet Bob Crow....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

 

London Underground drivers to strike on Boxing Day

Tube drivers will hold 24-hour strikes on four days, including Boxing Day, in a row over pay, a union has said.

 

Aslef balloted its 2,200 members over demands for triple pay and a day off lieu for working on the bank holiday.

 

Staff will walk out on Boxing Day, 16 January, 3 and 13 February. Aslef said 92% voted for industrial action, but Tube bosses said 42% voted to strike.

London Underground (LU) said it had asked the union to abandon its strike threat over "an outrageous pay claim".

 

Services were severely disrupted last year when drivers walked out on Boxing Day after talks collapsed.

 

The union has said it wanted "adequate compensation" for working on Boxing Day and it wanted Tube drivers to be able to volunteer to work on such an "unsociable" day.

 

A statement from the union said: "The whole dispute has been about seeking equitable quality time off for our members but recognising those who do operate the service may need to be incentivised.

 

"The company is currently offering no additional payments for working on Boxing Day. The union says its members may need 'substantial incentives' to volunteer.

"If the dispute is not resolved, the union intends to take further action on 16 January and 3 and 13 February."

 

LU said Tube workers already "earn a premium" for working on Boxing Day.

A spokesman said an agreement in 1992 specified drivers would earn about £44,500, work a 35-hour week and have 43 days' leave.

 

As part of the agreement, tube drivers have to work some public holidays, including Boxing Day.

[Window Cleaner]

Meanwhile.....on planet Bob Crow....

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16174789

 

London Underground drivers to strike on Boxing Day

Tube drivers will hold 24-hour strikes on four days, including Boxing Day, in a row over pay, a union has said.

 

Aslef balloted its 2,200 members over demands for triple pay and a day off lieu for working on the bank holiday.

 

Staff will walk out on Boxing Day, 16 January, 3 and 13 February. Aslef said 92% voted for industrial action, but Tube bosses said 42% voted to strike.

London Underground (LU) said it had asked the union to abandon its strike threat over "an outrageous pay claim".

 

Services were severely disrupted last year when drivers walked out on Boxing Day after talks collapsed.

 

The union has said it wanted "adequate compensation" for working on Boxing Day and it wanted Tube drivers to be able to volunteer to work on such an "unsociable" day.

 

A statement from the union said: "The whole dispute has been about seeking equitable quality time off for our members but recognising those who do operate the service may need to be incentivised.

 

"The company is currently offering no additional payments for working on Boxing Day. The union says its members may need 'substantial incentives' to volunteer.

"If the dispute is not resolved, the union intends to take further action on 16 January and 3 and 13 February."

 

LU said Tube workers already "earn a premium" for working on Boxing Day.

A spokesman said an agreement in 1992 specified drivers would earn about £44,500, work a 35-hour week and have 43 days' leave.

 

As part of the agreement, tube drivers have to work some public holidays, including Boxing Day.

 

strange how tube drivers are now so well remunerated isn't it. When I was at Uni in the 70s LU were falling over themselves to hire and train people to become tube drivers, they just couldn't find enough candidates. I had a Uni mate who applied and went to the interviews, they were so desperate they were even willing to hire him and train him and let him work on a part time basis in case he ever got kicked out of Imperial (yep that used to happen if you weren't up to scratch)

[Huffton]

Don't believe the statistics. There is work out there if you want it enough. Unfortunately the prvious government have bred a nation of lazy workshy scroungers who are far happier to do feck all and live off everyone who wants to go out and contribute. Then they start complaining when 'their jobs' are done, very well, by eastern european immigrants.

How to solve it? My answer would be put up the closed sign. Clearly you can't make people go but you can stop anymore coming in unless they have a particular expertise which is required. Anyone not holding a British passport then has six months to find employment or its goodbye. Anyone able bodied enough to work also has six months to find employment, or engage in unpaid community work (cleaning graffiti etc) or their benefits are stopped.

[CB Saint]

Actually I am glad they are doing this. By demanding in effect 4x pay on the back of a £44k salary and 43 days holiday, there will be few people sympathetic towards them and it just highlights how much of a loon Bob Crow really is. People will stop taking him and his union seriously.

[um pahars]

University needs to be elitist, make it a place where hard workers go who want to be doctors/lawyers etc. etc.

 

I never fail to see the irony of students wailing about how the government are getting rid of their EMA just to turn up to college, and then wondering why there are so few opportunities around

 

We were only talking about this today at school and saying how University should be elitist and a place where the brightest in our country go. It would be about investing in the future of our country turning out Scientists, Inventors and those who will drive our country's economic future. We will never be able to compete with the low wage economies of many countries, nor should we want to, but we need a cohesive policy to drive this country forward (IMHO Univeristy for all and prohibitive fees are n the way forward).

 

But in elitist we meant by ability, not ability to pay or ability to have a leg up (to Oxbridge). Educational mobility does this country a great disservice and robs us of many bright students (something that the reduction of EMA and other policies have played their part in).

[Window Cleaner]

We were only talking about this today at school and saying how University should be elitist and a place where the brightest in our country go. It would be about investing in the future of our country turning out Scientists, Inventors and those who will drive our country's economic future. We will never be able to compete with the low wage economies of many countries, nor should we want to, but we need a cohesive policy to drive this country forward (IMHO Univeristy for all and prohibitive fees are n the way forward).

 

But in elitist we meant by ability, not ability to pay or ability to have a leg up (to Oxbridge). Educational mobility does this country a great disservice and robs us of many bright students (something that the reduction of EMA and other policies have played their part in).

 

In my day you needed something like 3As and probably a B as well to get into top unis depending on the subjects of course,other elitist places but not quite top top would take you on something like an A and a couple of Bs or something like that ,3 Bs got you a place at a really decent Uni and after that you had to be content with the Readings,Cardiffs and Manchesters.

However 3As took some getting, something like 75% marks in 3 subjects where you needed to reason rather than regurgitate,even Bs and Cs were reasonable grades (A level passes were A to E, F fail ) I sometimes get the impression that A grades nowadays correspond to being able to write your name in block capitals and underlining it in red biro.

[Crab Lungs]

We were only talking about this today at school and saying how University should be elitist and a place where the brightest in our country go. It would be about investing in the future of our country turning out Scientists, Inventors and those who will drive our country's economic future. We will never be able to compete with the low wage economies of many countries, nor should we want to, but we need a cohesive policy to drive this country forward (IMHO Univeristy for all and prohibitive fees are n the way forward).

 

But in elitist we meant by ability, not ability to pay or ability to have a leg up (to Oxbridge). Educational mobility does this country a great disservice and robs us of many bright students (something that the reduction of EMA and other policies have played their part in).

 

Abso-bloody-lutely spot on.

[Lord Duckhunter]

We were only talking about this today at school and saying how University should be elitist and a place where the brightest in our country go. It would be about investing in the future of our country turning out Scientists, Inventors and those who will drive our country's economic future. We will never be able to compete with the low wage economies of many countries, nor should we want to, but we need a cohesive policy to drive this country forward (IMHO Univeristy for all and prohibitive fees are n the way forward).

 

But in elitist we meant by ability, not ability to pay or ability to have a leg up (to Oxbridge). Educational mobility does this country a great disservice and robs us of many bright students (something that the reduction of EMA and other policies have played their part in).

 

We had schooling that gave the brightest kids from the poorest families a decent education, but our political masters abolished them.

[Window Cleaner]

2% of the 18/19 year old age group in my day,they even gave you money to go there.Can't quite remember how much grant I got though, not the maximum,my parents had to contribute about half I think. Maybe 500/600£ a year although it's a very murky recollection.

[View From The Top]

Changes need to start at post 14. The German or Dutch models should be adopted instead some very odd desire to return to the Victorian times.

 

It will take real balls to make the changes really needed to re-skill future generations and I'm not sure that the current mob have them.

 

Until they get rid of the pathetic league tables, which are no more than a giant con and encourage rote teaching of core topics only, and start to value the trades and engineering, on a par with genuine academic success, then things won't change.

[Whitey Grandad]

2% of the 18/19 year old age group in my day,they even gave you money to go there.Can't quite remember how much grant I got though, not the maximum,my parents had to contribute about half I think. Maybe 500/600£ a year although it's a very murky recollection.

 

I got £400 a year in 1968. On top of that I got £100 a year from Plessey. I was what they called a 'thick sandwich student'. Make of that what you will.

[Seaford Saint]

I'm afraid that all the Eastern Europeans that have flooded in and taken our jobs has made an easy remedy difficult. My remedy would be to introduce an immigrants tax payable by employers, or a reduction in employer NI contributions for indiginous people. This would reduce unemployment and would discourage immigrants from settling. I would also stop benefits for immigrants to encourage them to go back where they came from.

 

Clearly we would need to leave the EU to achieve this.

 

We met our new cleaner today. She's from Romania and she hasn't taken anyone's job. We have not had an English cleaner in 5 years. Before this lady we had some one from Thailand who has now gone back. We have had Slovaks and poles. We pay 10 an hour. It appears the indigenous English don't want a job.

[Thorpe-le-Saint]

We met our new cleaner today. She's from Romania and she hasn't taken anyone's job. We have not had an English cleaner in 5 years. Before this lady we had some one from Thailand who has now gone back. We have had Slovaks and poles. We pay 10 an hour. It appears the indigenous English don't want a job.

 

This type of work, to your 'indigenous' population, is frequently seen as being beneath them. The term 'indigenous' makes me laugh - unless you can prove you are decended from a Celt or an Anglo-Saxon of course in which case well done you. I think the BBC (?) a few years ago did a documentary on those on the far right who thought they were 'indigenous' including one woman, who I assume was Dunce's ex, claiming that Senlac Hill was her '9/11'. Morons.

[aintforever]

So why not keep the hard working Immigrants and kick out the job shy benefit scroungers.....

 

There will always be people somewhere in the World willing to do your job for half the money. Polish people are no more hard-working than British, it just that sh!t wages over here are not sh!t for them.

 

Get out the EU and give us the powers to sort out our unemployment by cutting benefits and making it pay to get a job.

[aintforever]

This type of work, to your 'indigenous' population, is frequently seen as being beneath them. The term 'indigenous' makes me laugh - unless you can prove you are decended from a Celt or an Anglo-Saxon of course in which case well done you. I think the BBC (?) a few years ago did a documentary on those on the far right who thought they were 'indigenous' including one woman, who I assume was Dunce's ex, claiming that Senlac Hill was her '9/11'. Morons.

 

It's nothing to do with seeing it as "beneath them". The average 'indigenous' know that taking a low paid job means they lose their benefits and are not significantly better off for busting their ass cleaning up someone else's sh!t. Some gypo from an eastern european sh!thole doesn't have that dilemma.

 

It's the system that's screwed.