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Saints/Pompey rivalry: A recent history


Papa Shango
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How's it going everybody? I have just posted a comprehensive new blog on my website, covering the recent history of the Saints/Pompey rivalry. It covers everything from 2003 when Portsmouth won promotion to today, with everything else in between. It should hopefully help explain why the rivalry is as strong as ever, what the game means to me and why we simply must beat them on Sunday. Would appreciate it if you took your time to read it, hope you enjoy :) http://www.thesaintshub.com/saintspompeyrivalry.html

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Being 24 I can relate to a lot of this.

 

Pompey just didn't register on my radar. I knew they were our rivals but didn't really care about them. That is until that Carling Cup match when they booed the Ted Bates minutes silence. From that moment on, I hated them.

 

As a 27 year old, that's bang on. Many people on here don't want that carcass of a club to die because they want the rivalry. For me... no, let them die. I will miss nothing.

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Very good read, has not helped my nerves one bit though. Being 24 I knew no real rivalry before their promotion.

 

I don't know of any words that accurately sum up my feelings for the skates. Disgusting, cheating, uneducated, grim, sister ****ging, benefit scrounging pikey skate c*nts is probably the best I can do.

Edited by Jack
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Very good read. I'm 22 and also remember "not caring" about them and barely knowing of them in the 90s.

 

A few skates got the banter going when they got promoted and by the time of that Caring cup game I didn't like them. Since then, I detest them and wouldn't care if they died just so I could laugh at them.

 

It was so promising from a rivalry point of few at the beginning of the last decade. How things change..... Now lets restore normal order shall we!

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Really enjoyed reading that. I'm so up for sunday. Incredibly nervous though. Not been as nervous since the Sheffield utd game a few years ago. I hate that amarillo song, every time I here it on an advert or something it makes me so angry. Lambert brace and a 2-0 win on Sunday. Cannot wait.

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As a 27 year old, that's bang on. Many people on here don't want that carcass of a club to die because they want the rivalry. For me... no, let them die. I will miss nothing.

 

I wouldn't go that far. I enjoy hating them. Look at the hype in the build up to Sunday. I would miss that if they die. In my eyes, if they die, so will a bit of us.

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I wouldn't go that far. I enjoy hating them. Look at the hype in the build up to Sunday. I would miss that if they die. In my eyes, if they die, so will a bit of us.

 

I don't. I don't like feeling like that towards another club. If it dies so does that.

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Being 24 I can relate to a lot of this.

 

Pompey just didn't register on my radar. I knew they were our rivals but didn't really care about them. That is until that Carling Cup match when they booed the Ted Bates minutes silence. From that moment on, I hated them.

 

As a 25 year old - that is exactly it. They crossed several lines that night.

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Good read, I can relate to it as I'm 22.

 

I didn't really take much notice until they got promoted. My father would speak of them, although I didn't really get it. But who could blame me - I was young and enjoying watching top flight football, they were just an insignificant club below us. My first encounter with the place was when I was 9 or 10. We happened to be driving through Portsmouth, then all of a sudden we pulled into the car park of Fratton park. I thought to myself "what are we doing here, there's nobody here". My father just looked at me and said remember this place, and called them the "enemy" and "skates". Then we drove off home. Although he wouldn't tell me what skates meant, when I'm older he would say. It was quite a surreal moment, but I got the message.

 

The feeling has gradually built throughout the years. Starting with the minutes silence. Thats when it started to register with me. It sunk it even more when things went pear shaped. I suppose prior to that I just believed that natural order would be restored. They would eventually get relegated and we will continue to play top flight football. I couldn't have imagined the contrary. The humiliation of losing 4-1 at theirs and then relegation just made it all worse. Subsequently living in their shadows while they challenge for Europe and we fought relegation in the league below.

 

I never really had the chance to enjoy being a league above. The majority of my memories of them are living in their shadows.

 

Nervous about Sunday, but this is a great time to tear them a new one and show them who the No.1 team in Hampshire is!

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sounds like I'm three times older than the rest of you !

however, the historical background to the rivalry is quite the reverse.

 

My late father was Saints fan as a boy and in the post WW2 period (Saints were Div.2 whilst Pompey were Div.1 in those days and had won the cup in 1939).

Many fans used to travel down to Fratton when Saints played away games. In the post war times, travel was very much more difficult.

Few people had cars, train stations were more, but many trains ran much slower than todays high-tech jobs and even a trip to the Midlands could be a whole days

journey -if you got to the ground for kick-off time !

Coaches were more popular but sometimes took just as long, especially if fans wanted to stop at a few pubs on the way home !

 

Pompey were the " big brother " and the animosity we see nowadays probably started in the early 60's when both sides were in Div.2 - and a feud developed

between Saints (then) star player Terry Paine (5'8") and the pompey left back (former marine) Roy Lunnis (6'4").

Lunnis seemed to object to Paine making a fool of him by continually passing him by on the right wing, and in turn floored Painey a few times. Despite his lack of stature, our Terry was never one to take this lying down and often ankle-tapped the lofty Lunnis in return. There were no red/yellow cards in those days, but between them they totted up a few bookings and the occasional sending off...unfortunately this anger spread to the fans who carried it over from match to match.

 

I always enjoyed local derby games. It's the next best thing to beating a top London side or one of the top six. These days the most that can be said is;

it's a consolation to beat them -- if you don't get promoted but they'll brag a lot about beating us - if we go up - and they go down !

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As a 27 year old, that's bang on. Many people on here don't want that carcass of a club to die because they want the rivalry. For me... no, let them die. I will miss nothing.

 

At about twice your age I agree....even in my youth they were the team down the road, down the leagues, down market...didn't like them but they never bothered me that much and were an easy target to take the p*ss out of.

 

That turned to the hatred at the Ted Bates silence - I don't think I've ever despised a group of people as much as I did then. Everything that they have done since just makes me loathe them more...their attitude to our administration ensured that I will never feel sympathy for all those fun things that have happened and are happening to them now. To me Redknapp is the epitome of all that they represent...crooked, shifty, physically vile and the total lack of shame or apology for the way that they have cheated football, charities, local companies, hospitals, schools just underlines why, like Colin, I wouldn't waste a nanosecond on mourning their passing if they died.

 

No club has ever deserved it more.

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Yeah, I'm 24 and this article really resonated. Some great and some chilling memories evoked. Solid writing style and a few little bits of info that I'd forgotten. OP - on that note, how much of this was written from memory rather than researched (purely out of interest)?

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Translated with Bing:

 

Saints v Pompey-History of a rivalry

 

 

Note: the results listed within the article refer to the 2003/2004 season Premiership

 

 

 

The antagonism between Scummers and Skates is a phenomenon that seems not to have been affected by the scroll of the story.

 

 

The fans of Portsmouth, was reported by local newspapers, welcomed their rivals Southampton with a full launch of "clinker"-the oily residuals of railroad tracks – before a game between two teams in the "Southern League". It happened in 1904. About 100 years later, only the terminology has changed. Tifi anyone for the Southampton is a Scummer # rabble #, Portsmouth fans are Skates # faciloni #.

 

 

The Carling Cup match on 2 December, the first local derby since 1988 won by Southampton for 2-0 with two goals from Beattie, was marred by violence. A fan of Saints has described the atmosphere of that night as "pure hatred" between the two sides.

 

 

Despite the appeals of the two companies to ease the tension, the championship game on 21 December he had a side dish made of skirmishes and insults between the two opposing factions. The triumph of the Saints for 3-0 has probably decreased the nervousness inside the stadium, especially to the frustration of Skates in not once again experiencing a relegation zone.

 

 

All this must have a motivation. A few matches of Premier League have applied in recent years a similar deployment of police forces: roads closed; policemen on horseback; guests escorted by military fans in revolt. The FA made his anticipation of the race at noon in order to avoid dangerous "intoxication" while a few shops or pubs around St. Mary's remained open during the hours of boundary to match.

 

 

"It's a rivalry that covers everything from shopping to football," said Mike Hancock, Portsmouth MP and supporter of Pompey by 50 years. "Both towns are ports, both are the same size, are a short distance between them and compete as much culturally as economically. Southampton is more "open" and bourgeois. Portsmouth is historically more proletarian and since it is home to a military base of the Royal Navy, salaries have never been high ... but things are changing … Southampton have never digested to be the second tourist port in the country. Regarding football have always played the card of snobbism, but without effect: they have always been jealous, both of the city's history that the football team! What took them? The residence of King Canute "and the Titanic, which sank. Will also have a new stadium, but I saw with my own eyes to bury a mesh of Portsmouth under St. Mary ' s! ".

 

 

As seen, also a VIP fan as Hancock viscerally feel the rivalry. If the pedigree of Portmouth is more prestigious than that of Saints # Pompey were champions in ' 49 and ' # 50, it must be pointed out that the Southampton plays in top flight English by 26 consecutive years, a record second only to very few "big" of English football and employing much lower budget.

 

 

Nick Illingsworth, head of independent fans of Saints, tells an anecdote important history of the relations between the two cities – "in the years ' 60 and ' 70 Southampton flourished due to Commerce and tourism. Then, in the years ' 80 due to political decisions # Portsmouth operations headquarters for the Falklands war # the rival Harbour became much more competitive. When there was a large strike, commercial fabric of Portsmouth was kneeling by the decision of the port of Southampton to return to work. The syndicate of Southampton was called SCUM and from there, probably, the word Scummers … ".

 

 

The styles of the two football teams have mirrored the historical image of their city. Southampton has had numerous excellent footed strikers: Payne, Le Tissier, Shearer, Keegan, Channon and now Beattie. Portsmouth has always demonstrated a greater sympathy for industriousness and players without too many trimmings. Once Le Tissier played a Testimonial Match at Fratton Park wearing the shirt of Pompey hosts. When God scored a penalty ended the heresy, it ripped the shirt and revealed that under it sported one of Saints with the word Scummer ben impressa on his chest. The history of these skirmishes increased by an additional chapter recently thanks to Wayne Bridge. The former golden boy of Southampton, passed to Chelsea during the summer, has faced the Portsmouth in Boxing Day this year. Ironically, Bridge made his first goal at Stamford directly against his opponents. From true Scummer England back leaped running under the curve of the fans and guests making the protagonist of gestures and words, of course not provocateurs greeted positively by the Skates.

 

 

Going beyond the historic rivalry, the two clubs have more differences. Southampton, managed for some time by SLH of Rupert Lowe, sails over the years in which reconciles economic now, thanks to the work of Gordon Strachan, to very good sports results. The Pompey against lived an extraordinary 2003 crowned by triumph in the First Division and subsequent return to the Premier League. Despite this the Skates do not sail in gold and despite the money promised by Serbian millionaire Mandaric, the prospects are not very clear. Portsmouth remains however very close to his old Fratton Park and the history of his club, Pompey fans are among the most passionate fans of Premier League. It says "at Portsmouth Football is a religion, to Southampton is a hobby".

 

 

Between the two leaderships there is all this bitter rivalry, however, tends to emphasize the patron Saints of Rupert Lowe. The President of Saints States that "there is no reason why the two companies cannot thrive together. We are both great teams, perhaps the Pompey have had a more glorious past, but this does not correspond to the current situation. Southampton also looks to the West as "fans" reserve, once we were the only club of Premier in South London, but there is room for all even now. "

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I always remember Michael Svensson getting injured in the warm-up at Skatesville. As well as impacting that game greatly, his long term absence was a major factor in our eventual relegation. The fact the previous year their win provided both points and the impetus for them to survive was a shock. Previous visits to Crapton park had been victorious for me in the eighties and early nineties. having "bricks" thrown at you whilst held back by police in a decaying away in, and catching up with older relatives post the game who had been spat on in the stands cemented my hatred.

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Good read Papa.

 

My first derby was the Carling Cup game in 2003. The minute's silence that night had a special significance for me as my dad had died just a couple of weeks before. My dad followed Saints religiously in the 50s and 60s and he took me to my first game at the Dell in 1986 when I was 12 (bench seats, under West Stand). From my point of view that minute's silence was as much for him as it was for Ted Bates, and I'll never forget or forgive the Skates that disrespected it. I realise that it was only a very small minority that did it, and I appreciate that there were many Pompey fans who were as abhorred by it as we were, but emotion magnifies the significance of these things and I was deeply personally aggrieved by it.

 

While I'll (obviously) never hold any kind of affection for Pompey, like others on here I don't want to see them disappear because I'd miss the derbies, the atmosphere that is starting to build for me already this week, and the chances to put them back in their place. The only time I've been to FP was for the 4-1 Amarillo fiasco and like all the other Saints fans there that day I need to see those memories exorcised.

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Excellent read. Let's face it though, choosing that game for the minutes silence was a terrible idea (think I said that before the game).

 

Is there a chance of them having a minutes silence on Sunday for their old boy that passed away at the weekend?

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A good read, though a little long its hard to abbreviate exactly what it means to be a modern Saints fan and understand the rivalry. I'm 38 but grew up outside of Winchester and was only able to get into the Dell when other season ticket holders had spares, so not very often as it was during the 80s when I first really began following Saints properly. Being that far from Southampton there really wasn't much talk of the rivalry and that lot down the road were always a footnote in the local TV programs. For a while I even looked out for their score to see if they'd done well. Encounters with some of their more angry fans turned me against them. However, I do have one good friend whose a fan of theirs and despite his association with their angry mob, his insight and honest perspective is always good to listen to. Looking forward to Sunday, nervously, but really want the three points to get us closer to the Premier League, and to set right a few wrongs from past defeats.

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Thanks to everyone who took the time to read it, and thanks for all the kinds words, very much appreciated. Have now added a preview for the game itself, if anyone's interested: http://www.thesaintshub.com/saintspompeypreview.html. As I mention in that piece, we should be confident about Sunday, even with our injuries and away form. Just ask yourself, how many Pompey players would you trade for ours? I honestly can't think of one who I'd rather have. We are massively superior to them in every position IMO, and they should be a lot scared of us than we are of them. I would take any kind of win, but would absolutely love it if we absolutely hammer them, like Man City did to United at Old Trafford this season.

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Yeah, I'm 24 and this article really resonated. Some great and some chilling memories evoked. Solid writing style and a few little bits of info that I'd forgotten. OP - on that note, how much of this was written from memory rather than researched (purely out of interest)?

 

I'd say about 80% came from memory and 20% researched. Had to look up most of the stuff about Pompey's finances in 2009/10, but that was about it. Obviously I had to check things like dates too. Got a pretty good memory when it comes to football, although I wish I could forget some of those games.

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Thanks to everyone who took the time to read it, and thanks for all the kinds words, very much appreciated. Have now added a preview for the game itself, if anyone's interested: http://www.thesaintshub.com/saintspompeypreview.html. As I mention in that piece, we should be confident about Sunday, even with our injuries and away form. Just ask yourself, how many Pompey players would you trade for ours? I honestly can't think of one who I'd rather have. We are massively superior to them in every position IMO, and they should be a lot scared of us than we are of them. I would take any kind of win, but would absolutely love it if we absolutely hammer them, like Man City did to United at Old Trafford this season.
Not being funny mate, but if you're going to blog about football you should know a bit about it. We're not "massively superior to them in every position".
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Not being funny mate, but if you're going to blog about football you should know a bit about it. We're not "massively superior to them in every position".

 

The league table would suggest otherwise. Just my opinion. Which of their players would you have instead of our starting players then?

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The league table would suggest otherwise. Just my opinion. Which of their players would you have instead of our starting players then?
You miss my point. You said "massively superior in every position". I'd agree we're better, but our success, like their failures if far more to do with the sum of our parts being being greater than those parts being taken on an individual basis. Is Dean Hammond massively superior to Liam Lawerence? Not really is he.
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