Viking Warrior Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Instead of criticises players all the time troll get behind them for a change but that is not in your nature is it troll. Your only happy when you have something to whine about . Bart doesn't become a liability overnight . Yes he froze today and rarely came out of his 6 yard box . He's a saints player and I will continue to get behind our players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dronskisaint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 I don't believe it but I'm agreeing...mostly because I agree with Saint76er's assessment that I voiced during the game - I really don't think I've ever seen a performance from any keeper at a professional level as poor as Bart's today. I probably think he is shot for us because it all happened in front of the Sky audience and much as I've always supported him (and all Saints players...I'm not a serial critic of our players) I fear this may be one that is too difficult to fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Haven't trawled through the whole of this thread, so sorry if repeating, but does anyone remember Bialkowski's howler against West Brom in pre-season? Had a bad feeling about him today as soon as I heard Super Kelv was out. Still, I genuinely believe Bart is a decent 'keeper at this level, but two years without competitive football is bound to effect anyone's confidence. If he does leave in the not too distant future to a club where he plays regularly, you can bet he'll do a half-decent job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW11_Saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 As much for your sake as ours, its time for you to move on and re-establish yourself at a club. Good Luck elsewhere... Awful game, started nervously and got worse for him but we don't scapegoat our own - win, lose and draw together as one. Per NA's comments we should support and encourage him. That said, I do expect even a 90% fit KD to play next weekend. COYS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cricketphilly Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 It probably begs the question; Wwhen are we going to buy another keeper? Davis is no longer premier league class and Bart is certainly not. Lewis is out of contract at Peterborough, a maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
um pahars Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Talking about him in the pub after and most of us sympathising that it must be difficult not to play regularly and be expected to perform (a lack of real ressie games doesn't help) but he was shocking today and being honest I dont think I want to see him in goal again. Confidence shot to bits!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gemmel Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 It was a career (Saints) ending performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paris Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Happy now you've found someone to vent your total negativaty at Alps, a replacement for G Burley i spose .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 He had a shocker. I am pretty sure the stat was that Kelvin had started the last 88 games, so hopefully we won't have to see too many repeats. Today's display aside, in theory he is good backup for Kelvin. You either get someone so poor (Forecast) or someone good enough to be a #1 elsewhere. That said, the defence has no confidence in him, and haven't for years. Anyone who saw the Bennett and Bart show versus Crystal Palace in 2007 will agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CHAPEL END CHARLIE Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 If you have no confidence in your own ability as a player then you have no business calling yourself a professional footballer. I know this is a harsh thing to say but there's little room for sentiment in the game and we require a reserve keeper who is fully prepared at a moments notice to stand in for our main man. Regrettably, todays effort shows (not for the first time by the way) that BB is just not up to it. As bad as he was today you have to remember that he actually had very little to do against Blackpool - in a really testing game it could well have become bloody out there. Never again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over land and sea Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 (edited) It's a shame that it took a performance like this to demonstrate to those that rated Bart higher or equal to KD that he isn't. I think he's always been behind KD and have never really understood the debate. But Bart is a much better keep than today's game showed and I think it's a shame (a) that the team didn't think to give him early touches in recognition of his lack of games and inexperience of big match football and (b) that after he'd made the early howler (which fortunately didn't cost us) that the crowd didn't get behind him (easy for me to say from the comfort of my living room, I concede). He's never done anything other than be a loyal and dedicated pro and I think he's earned supporters' backing - I think he has pressed KD and made the latter a better keeper. I think Bart can come back from this (even if it's not for us), albeit he'll probably need to go out on loan to play regularly to rebuild his confidence. I hope he comes back stronger. If what I've read on this forum is right and that some of our fans were chanting for him to return to Poland I hope he succeeds to stick two fingers up to them. Shameful behaviour - we're Saints fans and should be backing our players, not bolstering the opposition's chances by undermining our players in the middle of a match. Edited 10 December, 2011 by Over land and sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Happy now you've found someone to vent your total negativaty at Alps, a replacement for G Burley i spose .. How about you take a deep breath, forget who started the thread, grow up and look at the situation objectively.... We've been nigh well invincible at SMS for the past year or so. Yes, sooner or later that was going to come to an end, but everyone expected to be against a f**king great team or a team playing well out of their skin. Not against the likes of this Blackpool team. The reason ? Our goalkeeper was pants, and his nervousness spread thru the team like a wild fire. He has the ability, but not the mentality, and overcoming that is not being helped by getting one game in 100 we play. He needs to move on to get the right sort of playing and exposure, and we need a GK that can be relied upon to come in at short notice and do the job even if it is only for the odd blue-moon game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 December, 2011 It's a shame that it took a performance like this to demonstrate to those that rated Bart higher or equal to KD that he isn't. I think he's always been behind KD and have never really understood the debate. But Bart is a much better keep than today's game showed and I think it's a shame (a) that the team didn't think to give him early touches in recognition of his lack of games and inexperience of big match football and (b) that after he'd made the early howler (which fortunately didn't cost us) that the crowd didn't get behind him (easy for me to say from the comfort of my living room, I concede). He's never done anything other than be a loyal and dedicated pro and I think he's earned supporters' backing - I really think he has pressed KD and made the latter a better keeper. I think Bart can come back from this (even if it's not for us), albeit he'll probably need to go out on loan to play regularly to rebuild his confidence. I really hope he comes back stronger. If what I've read on this forum is right and that some of our fans were chanting for him to return to Poland I really hope he succeeds to stick two fingers up to them. Shameful behaviour - we're Saints fans and should be backing our players, not bolstering the opposition's chances by undermining our players in the middle of a match. This I agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chez Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 there is a silver lining to today's display, I'll not have to suffer the **** three seats from me chastising Kelvin left right and centre for a long long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 As much as I hate criticising players Bart was simply awful for us today, and cost us 3 points. What I thought was good was that we didn't get on his back - that was the only plus point. I can't see any way back for him though - we're not a charity and on that performance he's not a goalkeeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Right so our reserve keeper who hardly ever plays turns out to be a bit rusty and makes some mistakes. Thus we should get rid of him and replace him with a top quality reserve keeper who won't play much and will probably be rusty and mistake prone when he finally does play...........excellent plan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 It's a shame that it took a performance like this to demonstrate to those that rated Bart higher or equal to KD that he isn't. I think he's always been behind KD and have never really understood the debate. But Bart is a much better keep than today's game showed and I think it's a shame (a) that the team didn't think to give him early touches in recognition of his lack of games and inexperience of big match football and (b) that after he'd made the early howler (which fortunately didn't cost us) that the crowd didn't get behind him (easy for me to say from the comfort of my living room, I concede). He's never done anything other than be a loyal and dedicated pro and I think he's earned supporters' backing - I think he has pressed KD and made the latter a better keeper. I think Bart can come back from this (even if it's not for us), albeit he'll probably need to go out on loan to play regularly to rebuild his confidence. I hope he comes back stronger. If what I've read on this forum is right and that some of our fans were chanting for him to return to Poland I hope he succeeds to stick two fingers up to them. Shameful behaviour - we're Saints fans and should be backing our players, not bolstering the opposition's chances by undermining our players in the middle of a match. Actually what I heard was the majority cheering when he did something right. Don't overreact about a very small minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJBSAINTS Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Shaky at best but feel sorry for lad, sitting on the bench week in week out and then all of a sudden in the sticks live on sky can't be easy. Having said this he is a pro and should be able to deal with the pressure that brings. I had a bad feeling after he made the early cock up and thought something like the goal was coming all game. Let's hope KD is back next week for the skates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supersonic Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Completely and utterly useless. from the 4th minute when he fumbled that cross which should have been bread and butter. The goal was shocking. I hate to criticise our players but that must be one of the worst performances I've seen in a Saints shirt for a VERY long time. GK is not a position where you can afford to have someone with no confidence. He seemed uninterested today and you could tell the defence had no confidence in him. Really hope Davis is back for next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenridge Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Yes, sooner or later that was going to come to an end, but everyone expected to be against a f**king great team or a team playing well out of their skin. Not against the likes of this Blackpool team. A team that topped the Premiership (albeit very temporarily!) just the season before you mean? No doubt about it Bart had a shocker and not just the goal alone. Were there mitigating circumstances? Yes, in terms of not playing regular football but that aside it's hard to find too many positives out of his performance. The problem still exists of finding a good enough number 2 who's prepared to warm the bench week in week out rather than play first team football elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over land and sea Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Actually what I heard was the majority cheering when he did something right. Don't overreact about a very small minority. Yes, I accept entirely it was a small minority and should have made that clearer. And I applaud the majority that got behind Bart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St Chalet Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 As much as I hate criticising players Bart was simply awful for us today, and cost us 3 points. What I thought was good was that we didn't get on his back - that was the only plus point. I can't see any way back for him though - we're not a charity and on that performance he's not a goalkeeper. In fairness at most he cost us two points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Right so our reserve keeper who hardly ever plays turns out to be a bit rusty and makes some mistakes. Thus we should get rid of him and replace him with a top quality reserve keeper who won't play much and will probably be rusty and mistake prone when he finally does play...........excellent plan Thats the nub of it. I didnt see the game though, so I'm assuming he was terrible today as everybody seems to have agreed, will see it on saints player later. Its annoying because he did look like a genuine find when we first signed him all those years ago, until he broke his finger he looked like a potential first choice keeper. Doddsys right, whats the answer? If a replacement keeper is going to be good enough to stand in occasionally for Kelvin, will he really want to sit on the bench or play in the reserves week in and week out? Something of a conundrum, methinks. NA obviously rates him up to a point and he's a former keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Right so our reserve keeper who hardly ever plays turns out to be a bit rusty and makes some mistakes. Thus we should get rid of him and replace him with a top quality reserve keeper who won't play much and will probably be rusty and mistake prone when he finally does play...........excellent plan To be honest that's a better plan than playing Bart again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Completely and utterly useless. from the 4th minute when he fumbled that cross which should have been bread and butter. The goal was shocking. I hate to criticise our players but that must be one of the worst performances I've seen in a Saints shirt for a VERY long time. GK is not a position where you can afford to have someone with no confidence. He seemed uninterested today and you could tell the defence had no confidence in him. Really hope Davis is back for next week More than hope. Playing Bart at that place is simply not an option. Davis has to play even if he is only half fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 To be honest that's a better plan than playing Bart again. Agreed. If Bart plays again he will be appaling. There is absolutely no way he will improve and gain confidence. I think we should count ourselves lucky no other Saints players have put in a shocking performance this season. Makes you wonder quite how we lost at Bristol and Donny really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingwing Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 From having quite a few good cup runs in the last few seasons I could not believe what I saw today, he fumbeled some simple moments and looked a fool. He made some good catches which my self and the guy infront of me applauded and gave some cheering too but I can't see him getting more first team with that head on him, which is a shame as he has looked good before. Good on Jos giving him the sensible, nice guy pat after the mistake, a real positive that a few of the players remember everyone has a bad moment and need something to remind them that everyone has a moment. Oh and the Blackpool fans didn't help much but thats the perogative of being an away fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daren W Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Haven't trawled through the whole of this thread, so sorry if repeating, but does anyone remember Bialkowski's howler against West Brom in pre-season? Had a bad feeling about him today as soon as I heard Super Kelv was out. Still, I genuinely believe Bart is a decent 'keeper at this level, but two years without competitive football is bound to effect anyone's confidence. If he does leave in the not too distant future to a club where he plays regularly, you can bet he'll do a half-decent job. This... The lad needs games, not reserve or friendlies or cup games but regular games... He HAS to be loaned out, if not this game could kill off his career, let alone his season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minsk Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Nice to see were writing players off after 1 game again. I thought we'd give that up after Jos' debut, but with Bart and Barnard my faith in you lot has been restored. Is this not a bit hypocritical given that you think we sould get of Ward-Prowse after only one appearance?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocknrollman no2 Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 I certainly didnt hear any bad chanting from the Northam against Bart,in fact there was encouragement and cheering when he did do the odd thing right. Bart was a good keeper when he first came to us,but i think hes now below the standard we now need and therefore cannot play against the Skates.As for his future i think loaning him out to see how he does is the best idea.That way at least we will then know if hes worth keeping or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Is this not a bit hypocritical given that you think we sould get of Ward-Prowse after only one appearance?? Sigh. You fool. He was clearly not being serious based on his previous comment in the same post about Bart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 This... The lad needs games, not reserve or friendlies or cup games but regular games... He HAS to be loaned out, if not this game could kill off his career, let alone his season... If we loan him out who sits on the bench for games? (I don't go with the lets not have a keeper on the bench theory) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Look Bart is a reserve keeper I don't understand why people think all our back up players are going to be better than our first choices and are just going to step straight into first choice players shoes and play like a legend after little or no game time. Maybe if we had a reserve team playing competative games week in week out it would help... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Shocking performance close to his all time versus Palace first game of one season. Just not good enough and we cannot afford to drop any more points through cock ups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Agreed. If Bart plays again he will be appaling. There is absolutely no way he will improve and gain confidence. I think we should count ourselves lucky no other Saints players have put in a shocking performance this season. Makes you wonder quite how we lost at Bristol and Donny really. Ho ho, the sarcasm is scathing but you're right in one thing - he won't get better and won't gain confidence by playing either. He played like a muppet today and it wasn't just one mistake and it hasn't just been one game either. Six years and since the Derby game not one decent performance. You can't polish a turd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Look Bart is a reserve keeper I don't understand why people think all our back up players are going to be better than our first choices and are just going to step straight into first choice players shoes and play like a legend after little or no game time. Maybe if we had a reserve team playing competative games week in week out it would help...Bart doesn't play many of the Reserve/U21 games, so he's not even getting regular non-competitive match practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 It doesn't matter if he plays better in the next game. The problem is that he is just one slip of confidence away from another performance like that. Now we know he has that in him, it's difficult to entrust our success or failure on him in the future. We can't let a performance like that happen again from a keeper this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Shocking performance close to his all time versus Palace first game of one season. Just not good enough and we cannot afford to drop any more points through cock ups So we should ditch every player who fu cks up? Didn't Jos gift Cardiff they're second (and winning) goal lets get rid of him, De Ridder ****ed up a simple chance to win the game in injury time to day he should go?, Hammond missed a sitter today get rid? where does it stop ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Bart was a good keeper when he came to us and played first team until that injury at Newcastle in the FA Cup. He has made a few mistakes since and today he was full of nerves right from the off. It is up to the club now to build up his confidence and hopefully we shall have a good keeper again.Please do not write the lad off after this one game. He will know more than most that he was not up to scratch today and he will have a miserable weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alpine_saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Author Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Right so our reserve keeper who hardly ever plays turns out to be a bit rusty and makes some mistakes. Thus we should get rid of him and replace him with a top quality reserve keeper who won't play much and will probably be rusty and mistake prone when he finally does play...........excellent plan Fine, then we need someone good enough to compete for and share the #1 spot with Kelvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Bart doesn't play many of the Reserve/U21 games, so he's not even getting regular non-competitive match practice. Exactly. Any player not playing often is going to get rusty it would most likely happen to any second choice keeper we have who isn't getting regular reserve games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Fine, then we need someone good enough to compete for and share the #1 spot with Kelvin. What like a 1 game on 1 game off Rota. Maybe it would be better to re-instate they senior reserve team to give the fringe players weekly competative games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Ho ho, the sarcasm is scathing but you're right in one thing - he won't get better and won't gain confidence by playing either. He played like a muppet today and it wasn't just one mistake and it hasn't just been one game either. Six years and since the Derby game not one decent performance. You can't polish a turd. At least I was being sarcastic. Your last bit is just silly. Man Utd in the cup last year? His world class save to win the penalty shoot out against Norwich? You haven't seen one decent performance from Bart? Oh well. P.S. Bart has played in some pretty obscure league cup ties over the years, not to mention a month or so on loan at Barnsley. My congratulations on on seeing all those games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tractor_Saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Any ideas when Kelvin was injured? Given the lack of prepartion for Bart and the lack of a sub goalie I'm thinking it's a late change. Please give Bart a chance. Agree that it was a horrendous display but don't you all sometimes have a bad day in the officie? I'll back Bart for the Pompey game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Can remember last year talk of him possibly having a long spell out with his other knee but NA says they are "managing" the situation so maybe certain aspects of his game have changed. Luckily his cock ups didn't cost us too much (same as someone missing an open goal) with WHU losing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markr27 Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 I'd get a established young keeper in like Joe Lewis or Alex Smithies, someone that is prepared to be patient and initally be the backup yet still be capable of pushing KD for the No.1 slot. Bart to go out on loan to play regular football and prove he can potentially cut it consistently at 1st team level with Saints - unless this happens we'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 So we should ditch every player who fu cks up? Didn't Jos gift Cardiff they're second (and winning) goal lets get rid of him, De Ridder ****ed up a simple chance to win the game in injury time to day he should go?, Hammond missed a sitter today get rid? where does it stop ? As always it comes down to a question of judgement, SDR and Jos have ability but prone to mistakes as are most players. Bart has more tendency towards being weak mentally, being prone to mistakes and generally not being up to the job than he has ability. He may be great on the training pitch but when has he shown that in the first team? To sum up it's just sentimentality that justifies Bart and it's undeserved sentimentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingsbridge Saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 Bart is part of a very discredited Saints past. His lack of ability shone through in this new era and is a reminder of what we used to have to put up with all over the pitch. Time for him to move on just like Euell and all the other Losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revolution saint Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 At least I was being sarcastic. Your last bit is just silly. Man Utd in the cup last year? His world class save to win the penalty shoot out against Norwich? You haven't seen one decent performance from Bart? Oh well. P.S. Bart has played in some pretty obscure league cup ties over the years, not to mention a month or so on loan at Barnsley. My congratulations on on seeing all those games. Nope, frankly I haven't seen him play well since the Derby game. For every good save in a game he's also made a howler. He's nervous, a liability and not good. Sorry if that offends you but I really don't rate him. Of course it's all about opinions but iwould you play him again based on that performance? Why? KD isn't the world's greatest keeper but he never has a defence as nervous in front of him as we saw today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostBoys Posted 10 December, 2011 Share Posted 10 December, 2011 So we should ditch every player who fu cks up? Didn't Jos gift Cardiff they're second (and winning) goal lets get rid of him, De Ridder ****ed up a simple chance to win the game in injury time to day he should go?, Hammond missed a sitter today get rid? where does it stop ? I am not judging on one mistake - there were several in the game. His level of performance in every area was just not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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