Euro

[Thedelldays]

Been away for a bit.....

 

Is it dead yet????

[dubai_phil]

Apparently in the latest Euro rescue plan they have appointed Messrs Storrie, Lampitt & Android as advisors.

 

They are now pretty confident they can string it out until May or June

 

To give time for all their best mates to get their own asses covered

[suewhistle]

Fortunately I have income in both £ and €, although not very much in either! When I came to Italy I was getting nearly €1.50 per pound, now I get only €1.16, so the Euro is doing pretty well for a weak currency!

[trousers]

Apparently in the latest Euro rescue plan they have appointed Messrs Storrie, Lampitt & Android as advisors.

 

They are now pretty confident they can string it out until May or June

 

To give time for all their best mates to get their own asses covered

 

*chuckle out loud* :-)

[Whitey Grandad]

Fortunately I have income in both £ and €, although not very much in either! When I came to Italy I was getting nearly €1.50 per pound, now I get only €1.16, so the Euro is doing pretty well for a weak currency!

 

Quite right Sue, we have the luxury of a variable exchange rate which only goes to highlight how much the pound has been devalued over the last few years. It does make my exports more attractive but unfortunately it also pushes up the price of my imported components.

 

Believe me, we don't want the Euro to fail.

[CB Saint]

"Mrs Merkel said France and Germany wanted to see "structural changes which go beyond agreements".

The two leaders said they wanted treaty changes to be implemented by all 27 EU member states, but if that was not possible, just the 17 states which have adopted the euro."

 

From the beeb

 

Here we go, "you know that treaty that you didn't vote for, well we need to change it fundamentally"

 

I wonder what they are going to try and foist onto us this time.

[eurosaint]

Been away for a bit.....

 

Is it dead yet????

 

Christ, I read the headline and thought it was my own obituary !

I'm pleased to tell you that I am fine and strangely enough I was in Brussels for the last week but cannot update you any more on the Eurozone crisis! My friend Herman (Von Rumpuy) was not around so I did not get a chance to hear his views !!

[solentstars]

"Mrs Merkel said France and Germany wanted to see "structural changes which go beyond agreements".

The two leaders said they wanted treaty changes to be implemented by all 27 EU member states, but if that was not possible, just the 17 states which have adopted the euro."

 

From the beeb

 

Here we go, "you know that treaty that you didn't vote for, well we need to change it fundamentally"

 

I wonder what they are going to try and foist onto us this time.

no they will not foist it on us if there is no agreement they will go to the core 17 members of the euro and they will shape their own destiny and willl not worry if the uk wants to stay on the outside and have no say in making the rules and protecting our interests. Edited 5 December, 2011 by solentstars

[dune]

So another undemocratic step towards a Franco-German superstate.

[View From The Top]

Even the arch Euro sceptic Tory MP who was on R5L at 16.30 said that the Euro wouldn't fail, Germany wouldn't allow it, nor should we want it to as it would lead to a slump of 1930s proportions.

 

When arch sceptic Tories say that then I know it's serious.

[View From The Top]

So another undemocratic step towards a Franco-German superstate.

 

 

The French certainly don't see it that way. They see it as having to cede far too much sovereignty but if they don't, they're fu cked.

[Thedelldays]

Tad ironic that Germany is top of another process that divides Europe and could potentially feck us all up

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

Tad ironic that Germany is top of another process that divides Europe and could potentially feck us all up

 

maybe, but think on the peace enjoyed by western Europe over the last 65 years - unprecedented.

[aintforever]

My Grandad always said to watch out for the Germans, they will end up ruling europe one way or another.

[Thedelldays]

My Grandad always said to watch out for the Germans, they will end up ruling europe one way or another.

 

This could be true. No doubt after they save the euro they will demand a greater say in europe doing so..

 

Basically, they will indirectly go about achieving what their grand and great grandparents failed to do..

 

Rule Europe

[Saintandy666]

No point us leaving the EU though if we want to trade with the EU on the same rules as EU members. We'd have to follow most of the EU laws and would have no say in EU law creation.

 

Though, in fairness to David Cameron and Nick Clegg here, they both promised a referendum if powers were given away to Europe, not just any old referendum. Because the treaty change would only be relevant to the 17 eurozone countries, no referendum technically needed under the new law created this parliament.

 

It is a change in our relationship with the EU though if there is a move to fiscal union in the Eurozone.

 

Expect to see challenges go right up to the Supreme Court over this. If no referendum is given, I bet some anti-EU group will give it a go.

[View From The Top]

No point us leaving the EU though if we want to trade with the EU on the same rules as EU members. We'd have to follow most of the EU laws and would have no say in EU law creation.

 

Though, in fairness to David Cameron and Nick Clegg here, they both promised a referendum if powers were given away to Europe, not just any old referendum. Because the treaty change would only be relevant to the 17 eurozone countries, no referendum technically needed under the new law created this parliament.

 

It is a change in our relationship with the EU though if there is a move to fiscal union in the Eurozone.

 

Expect to see challenges go right up to the Supreme Court over this. If no referendum is given, I bet some anti-EU group will give it a go.

 

The Euro-sceptic tory was saying there was no need for a referendum in the UK and it wouldn't be the right time for one anyway as the priority is getting the economies back on track.

 

When it's an arch Euro-sceptic saying these things then you know that the political classes are worried.

[Saintandy666]

The Euro-sceptic tory was saying there was no need for a referendum in the UK and it wouldn't be the right time for one anyway as the priority is getting the economies back on track.

 

When it's an arch Euro-sceptic saying these things then you know that the political classes are worried.

 

Personally, I think now is the time to get involved more. What is going on now will shape the continent for the next generation. We want to have a say in that, not just let it happen in front of our eyes while we bicker about referendums.

 

But yes, if even big eurosceptics are starting to realise there are bigger priorities in the next few weeks and months, then **** is getting really serious!

[hypochondriac]

Been away for a bit.....

 

Is it dead yet????

 

Sadly not.

[Saintandy666]

Sadly not.

 

I hope you don't want a Euro collapse though. Even if you do want us out of the EU(fair enough view), a collapse of the Euro would only lead to cataclysmic consequences for us all.

[hypochondriac]

I hope you don't want a Euro collapse though. Even if you do want us out of the EU(fair enough view), a collapse of the Euro would only lead to cataclysmic consequences for us all.

 

If it's the only way to get us and other countries out of this ridiculous project then it's worth it. Yes it may be bad for a while but rather that than some sort of European superstate. Short terrm pain for long term gain. I want my ancestors to live in a sovereign Britain and this may be the only thing that achieves that.

[Saintandy666]

If it's the only way to get us and other countries out of this ridiculous project then it's worth it. Yes it may be bad for a while but rather that than some sort of European superstate. Short terrm pain for long term gain. I want my ancestors to live in a sovereign Britain and this may be the only thing that achieves that.

 

I don't think Euro failure will be short-term pain though. It could lead to a collapse of the whole system and terminal decline. I think you trivialise just how bad it could be.

[Whitey Grandad]

If it's the only way to get us and other countries out of this ridiculous project then it's worth it. Yes it may be bad for a while but rather that than some sort of European superstate. Short terrm pain for long term gain. I want my ancestors to live in a sovereign Britain and this may be the only thing that achieves that.

 

I think your ancestors probably did. Britain has changed beyond all recognition and our descendants will be living in a country that neither of us would recognise.

[Gingeletiss]

I don't think Euro failure will be short-term pain though. It could lead to a collapse of the whole system and terminal decline. I think you trivialise just how bad it could be.

 

So tell us!

[Gingeletiss]

I hope you don't want a Euro collapse though. Even if you do want us out of the EU(fair enough view), a collapse of the Euro would only lead to cataclysmic consequences for us all.

 

Really! enlighten us.

[View From The Top]

When the Euro sceptic right, including UKIP, warn of the dire consequences I reckon even the dumbest of our Lounge members should perhaps think that those ardent antis may know a wee bit more than them.

[dune]

I hope you don't want a Euro collapse though. Even if you do want us out of the EU(fair enough view), a collapse of the Euro would only lead to cataclysmic consequences for us all.

 

Explain to us mere adults what this cataclysmic event would be like?

[hypochondriac]

I don't think Euro failure will be short-term pain though. It could lead to a collapse of the whole system and terminal decline. I think you trivialise just how bad it could be.

 

Lol. Terminal decline? Do me a favour. We survived two world wars and we would easily survive this. In 20 years things would be back to normal.

[Lord Duckhunter]

Makes you laugh how all the Euro loons were SO wrong that the Euro has to stay together at all costs, other wise it will wreck the world's ecomony.

 

After the ERM fiasco how could anyone seriously beleive that The Euro was a good thing? But there were and continue to be people who are pro Euro, Nick Clegg for one. Even Red Ed has not ruled out joining it, saying "it depends how long I'm PM for". How can anyone take these jokers seriously on anything to do with the Euro? Thankfully there were people like William Hague, John Redwood and Tony Benn pointing out the obvious to the British people, along with papers like The Sun, Telegraph, Mail and Express, who were right all along.

 

Even the last Labour administration were trying desperately to join

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3024010.stm

 

Now, Labour likes to spin that Brown kept us out, but he was in favour of the Euro "in principle". The point is that the Euro has turned out to be bad for Greece, Italy, Ireland and now the rest of the World. The whole thing was wrong. Brown was never against The Euro, just against The UK joining at that particular time. He was wrong just as much as the other Euro loons.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-183941/Brown-backs-euro-entry-time-right.html

 

Now what you'll notice is that the same people who backed the Euro (and I'm not just talking about UK membership) are the same people who tell us how important it is we remain in the EU. The same people are against leaving the EU and the people who were right are the ones, in the main, wanting us to leave (or at least roll back to a Trading bloc).

 

The pro Euro's judgement just can not be trusted, they were proved so wrong about the Euro.So on what basis does that make them right about the consequences of leaving the Eu?

[dune]

S&P - 50% chance of downgrade of Germany and France AAA status.

 

Yesterdays events have hardly given the Markets a boost either. You would have expect a surge, but what we saw was little change in their outlook.

 

The best thing can happen is for the whole whole Euro to collapse in a structured way and then we can start rebuilding.

[pap]

Slightly unrelated, but it is worth pointing out that the last time Europe faced this much financial difficulty, it was embroiled in war within a decade. That might be a cataclysmic consequence of financial trouble if things go too far.

[hypochondriac]

Slightly unrelated, but it is worth pointing out that the last time Europe faced this much financial difficulty, it was embroiled in war within a decade. That might be a cataclysmic consequence of financial trouble if things go too far.

 

Seems unlikely in this day and age. People will be fine. The vast majority of scaremongers are pro Euro and that's because they are desperate to keep this project going at any cost despite being proven utterly utterly wrong.

[dune]

Seems unlikely in this day and age. People will be fine. The vast majority of scaremongers are pro Euro and that's because they are desperate to keep this project going at any cost despite being proven utterly utterly wrong.

 

It wouldn't surprise me to see Spain go back to fascism. A chain of events could then begin.

[solentstars]

When the Euro sceptic right, including UKIP, warn of the dire consequences I reckon even the dumbest of our Lounge members should perhaps think that those ardent antis may know a wee bit more than them.

 

The looney right like the Marxist left live in a dream world .the euro is here to stay and we willl see a 2 speed Europe with the likes of Greece keeping us company.thank god Cameron like most prime ministers before him look after our national interest. The second world war finished in1945 but you think the nutty right still think we are stilll at war.

 

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[solentstars]

It wouldn't surprise me to see Spain go back to fascism. A chain of events could then begin.

 

I suppose then you and your looney right consertive travellers will put up for the leadership of the party

 

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[Special K]

Slightly unrelated, but it is worth pointing out that the last time Europe faced this much financial difficulty, it was embroiled in war within a decade. That might be a cataclysmic consequence of financial trouble if things go too far.

 

I think you are right. If the euro fails, there will undoubtedly be a number of countries is serious economic distress with very little hope of mid term recovery. We all know this can lead to social unrest, the rise of nationalism and, potentially, conflict.

[dune]

I suppose then you and your looney right consertive travellers will put up for the leadership of the party

 

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Hardly. The first notable event would likely be a nationalistic build up of forces in La Line, and us taking similar steps across the border.

 

I really do believe that Spain is in big trouble - you only have to see the numbers unemployed and the abandonment of building projects including roads. In this country we haven't seen hard times, but they are seeing them.

[Lord Duckhunter]

The looney right like the Marxist left live in a dream world .the euro is here to stay and we willl see a 2 speed Europe with the likes of Greece keeping us company.thank god Cameron like most prime ministers before him look after our national interest. The second world war finished in1945 but you think the nutty right still think we are stilll at war.

 

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Who are the loony right then?

 

I presume you mean people like Redwood & Bill Cash. People who read The Telegraph and The Mail. In other words the people who were right all along about the Euro.These were people who were against The Euro Full Stop. Against Greece, France Germany, Ireland joining a single currency. How on earth did previous PM's like Major, Blair and Brown look after our interests? Looking after our interests would have been spelling out to the nations of Europe that a single currency was unworkable, our interests would have been served by holding back our money until they abandoned the idea, of threatening to withdraw from the Eu until it was shelved. How on earth was our best interests served by smilling like happy ****ing idiots, while Greece, Ireland, Spain Italy and the like signed a death pact?. We went along with this stupid proposal, just a long as we weren't in it (although some wanted to be).

 

This has gone beyond the stage of whether the UK should have joined the Euro, it should never have been put in place in the first place. The UK's best interests were for there to have been no Euro.Only the "loony right" as you call them (with a few notable Labour supporters) were against the whole thing from day one.

[dune]

Who are the loony right then?

 

I presume you mean people like Redwood & Bill Cash. People who read The Telegraph and The Mail. In other words the people who were right all along about the Euro.These were people who were against The Euro Full Stop. Against Greece, France Germany, Ireland joining a single currency. How on earth did previous PM's like Major, Blair and Brown look after our interests? Looking after our interests would have been spelling out to the nations of Europe that a single currency was unworkable, our interests would have been served by holding back our money until they abandoned the idea, of threatening to withdraw from the Eu until it was shelved. How on earth was our best interests served by smilling like happy ****ing idiots, while Greece, Ireland, Spain Italy and the like signed a death pact?. We went along with this stupid proposal, just a long as we weren't in it (although some wanted to be).

 

This has gone beyond the stage of whether the UK should have joined the Euro, it should never have been put in place in the first place. The UK's best interests were for there to have been no Euro.Only the "loony right" as you call them (with a few notable Labour supporters) were against the whole thing from day one.

 

You say it like it is.

[solentstars]

Hardly. The first notable event would likely be a nationalistic build up of forces in La Line, and us taking similar steps across the border.

 

I really do believe that Spain is in big trouble - you only have to see the numbers unemployed and the abandonment of building projects including roads. In this country we haven't seen hard times, but they are seeing them.

 

I just think when the euro crisis is sorted out .in a few years time the world economy will provide enough growth for the growth of jobs to get unemployed back into work.

 

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[Whitey Grandad]

I just think when the euro crisis is sorted out .in a few years time the world economy will provide enough growth for the growth of jobs to get unemployed back into work.

 

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They won't be British jobs, I'm afraid.

[pap]

Seems unlikely in this day and age. People will be fine. The vast majority of scaremongers are pro Euro and that's because they are desperate to keep this project going at any cost despite being proven utterly utterly wrong.

 

I don't know. I used to look at the Great Depression and think that there was no way something like that could ever happen again.

 

My point is, while it's nice to think that we're incapable of sliding into war, history shows us that we're all too capable of repeating very large mistakes, just through slightly different means.

[Saintandy666]

Lol. Terminal decline? Do me a favour. We survived two world wars and we would easily survive this. In 20 years things would be back to normal.

 

Post world war 2 there was no advanced eastern economy like today. We don't want the euro to fail, reform yes, but failure could tip us all over the edge.

[pap]

I think you are right. If the euro fails, there will undoubtedly be a number of countries is serious economic distress with very little hope of mid term recovery. We all know this can lead to social unrest, the rise of nationalism and, potentially, conflict.

 

I don't think there is any chance of recovery. Ultimately, recovery from debt means eventually getting to a point where you have no debt and a net income each month.

 

None of the plans seem to address this. If Eurozone members are truly serious about complete recovery, then it needs to ensure that each member state is capable of addressing its debts. Otherwise, all they're really doing is removing voting rights from people who'll inevitably end up being unable to pay into the stability fund.

[Sergei Gotsmanov]

Well we can't or nuke each other and we share some of our bigger boats with our friends the French

[hypochondriac]

Post world war 2 there was no advanced eastern economy like today. We don't want the euro to fail, reform yes, but failure could tip us all over the edge.

 

You don't want it to fail. I do if it is our only way of getting rid of it and your comments are just scaremongering about something you know little about.

[Saintandy666]

I can't see Europe going to war with itself(the next war if any would be a Europe allied vs. someone else. Iran is the one to watch). The EU has kept peacetime well and improved relations massively.

[Saintandy666]

You don't want it to fail. I do if it is our only way of getting rid of it and your comments are just scaremongering about something you know little about.

 

Oh, have you studied the inner workings of the Euro then? Degree in economics? If not, your opinions are just as uneducated and full of **** as mine, so don't pull out that card. Even big euro sceptics agree with me that the euro must not fail.

[hypochondriac]

Oh, have you studied the inner workings of the Euro then? Degree in economics? If not, your opinions are just as uneducated and full of **** as mine, so don't pull out that card. Even big euro sceptics agree with me that the euro must not fail.

 

My father shares my views and has an economics degree.

[Saintandy666]

My father shares my views and has an economics degree.

 

Well, many economists would agree with me also. Economists never agree. Why don't we just get some on here and let them argue rather than us because they are the only ones with the relevant experience? Or we can just drop the you don't know what your talking about card, because quite frankly neither of us have studied the economy in enough depth and so just rely on a few simplified figures and others opinions. Sounds good to me.