doddisalegend Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Well after playing less than one half of football this season it would seem quite a few people think Barney isn't up to the championship. I suppose not scoring a couple of hattricks in three sub apperances would suggest that Lee is in fact crap..... Just out of interest is he "not up to it" in the same way as Lambert and Hammond weren't up to it in the summer or is he "not up to it" in a different way? It may well be the case that Lee "isn't up to it" but shouldn't we let him get a decent run of games first before writing him off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Shouldn't we let him get a decent run of games first before writing him off? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 I think some of the opinions and conclusions people are coming to after just 2 appreances is nothing short of pathetic. I had a guy near me last night and as soon as he heard Barnard is coming on, his words were ''I saw him as a sub a few weeks back, he's no where near good enough for this league. L1 at best" We have some right idiots as fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSAINT Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 I think some of the opinions and conclusions people are coming to after just 2 appreances is nothing short of pathetic. I had a guy near me last night and as soon as he heard Barnard is coming on, his words were ''I saw him as a sub a few weeks back, he's no where near good enough for this league. L1 at best" We have some right idiots as fans. Indeed. He's been out for bloomin' ages. Not sure what people are expecting TBH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFSFC Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 In my opinion he wasn't up to it at times last season. I don't think anyone can argue that Maynard is a better player for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 In my opinion he wasn't up to it at times last season. I don't think anyone can argue that Maynard is a better player for example. But he still hasn't had much of a chance at this level to come to that conclusion - you may be right, but he could sitll turn out to be a decent goal scorer at this level. He lacks a bit of pace but he always works his arse off and that's a quality that doesn't always come bundled in with a £2.5m mega signing for e.g. I still think he'll suprise a few this year and make his mark at this level. He's the sort of player that can pop up with crucial goals away from home as we saw last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa Shango Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Still not match fit yet. Lets wait and see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Channon's Sideburns Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Far, far better player than some give him credit for. He's our new Brett Ormerod. With goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 As I said in another thread - it is obviously too soon to tell whether he could do a job in the Championship. But from what I could see last night, he won't be used as a starter. He hasn't got the strength to hold it up or the height to flick it on of someone like a Lambert, he hasn't got the skill of someone like Guly and he certainly isn't the quickest. He was clearly very rusty last night but you can at least get a sense of what he might be like up against some of the more organised championship defences. My main worry is that he doesn't have one stand out trait which will stand him in good Championship stead like Lambo and Guly have. I wait to be proven wrong though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Barnard is a good player and had a really good spell last year. \i think he will play an important role in the season, but if we are serious about promotion we do need to strengthen in our long campaign ahead. I'll say it again, we were not decisive enough in the summer transfer market and this will lose us a place in the promotion race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Yep, some more pearls of wisdom from some of our resident football experts. I guess with him and Lambert both unable to make the step up we're in for a hell of a struggle this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Barnard is a good player and had a really good spell last year. \i think he will play an important role in the season, but if we are serious about promotion we do need to strengthen in our long campaign ahead. I'll say it again, we were not decisive enough in the summer transfer market and this will lose us a place in the promotion race. I'm glad you've moved on from hoddlegate but do you realise that you only have 1 month left for Saints to fulfill your prediction of mid table obscurity before you start sounding utterly ridiculous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 How could that ever be proved? I'm sure you'll find a way to say you were right, but objectively, how will it make sense? Following summer we had perhaps our best ever start, won every home game. It'd be hard to think how it could have gone better. Yet more summer signings would have made us go up? What if they'd unbalanced the side and we'd been in a worse position now? How do we know that wouldn't have happened? How do we know this side can't continue? Or that new signings in January will help rather than hinder? Unless...is your insightful point the fact the signing better players will give us a better squad? It's bizarre. You said we'd be 17th, so clearly you thought we needed a whole new team. Now you're finding more ways to spin it negatively. If we lose our place in the promotion race, it could be due to anything. Form, injury, poor signings, no signings, too many signings, whatever. you can't predict 17th, see us finish 5th or 6th then moan all summer claiming you were right. Not without looking like a tedious troll anyway. It's pointless mate. He's either on a wind up or mentally ill. I think it's the former but after 6/7 years of hearing about Hoddle and vocal minority it could well be the latter too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfurdent Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 well the rules are that if a player does not score ten goals within five minutes of coming on the pitch then he is a total failure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 I think we only lost one game last season when Barnard started (Rochdale away). Not entirely sure on that, but he was certainly very important to our success. He works hard and knows where the net is. When the going gets tough, that can get you a result at any level. Guly has the skill, but he can tend to go missing when we aren't playing well. Take last night for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 (edited) amazes me though, hardly anyone ever gives the opposition any credit for their performance,when we shut a key opponent out of a game it's bully for us, when the opposition do it it's because our man is crap.Did this not happen again yesterday,from what I can gather Koren was giving us a hard time in the first half, then NA changed the schema and Morgan shut him out more efficiently,so no doubt all Hull's fans are saying he was crap in the 2nd half. Edited 30 November, 2011 by Window Cleaner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 30 November, 2011 Author Share Posted 30 November, 2011 amazes me though, hardly anyone ever gives the opposition any credit for their performance,when we shut a key opponent out of a game it's bully for us, when the opposition do it it's because our man is crap. Much the same as all those goals the oppsition teams have "gifted us" I assume... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighthouse Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 amazes me though, hardly anyone ever gives the opposition any credit for their performance,when we shut a key opponent out of a game it's bully for us, when the opposition do it it's because our man is crap. What gives you that idea? This thread is about Lee Barnard and his merits with regards to our team. If you want to discuss how good Hull City were, go to the post match thread. Last night I thought Guly did little other than his goal. Hull defended well, but a fully fit Lee Barnard playing 70 odd minutes might have given them more problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 But he still hasn't had much of a chance at this level to come to that conclusion - you may be right, but he could sitll turn out to be a decent goal scorer at this level. He lacks a bit of pace but he always works his arse off and that's a quality that doesn't always come bundled in with a £2.5m mega signing for e.g. I still think he'll suprise a few this year and make his mark at this level. He's the sort of player that can pop up with crucial goals away from home as we saw last year. Pulis didn't get much of a run out, but we were all able to decide he wasn't good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 30 November, 2011 Author Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Pulis didn't get much of a run out, but we were all able to decide he wasn't good enough. Based on the fact the Pulis couldn't even get a place on the bench under three(?) different managers that's a fair assumption. Lee has been out injuried and is a least getting on the bench which suggests NA (and AP before him) felt he added to the squad something Pulis couldn't convince any manager of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Thought he looked very rusty last night - but we also were flat after we got the 2nd. Barney had to jump for, and chase alot of nothing balls, so they probably made him look worse. It would be nice to have the luxury of time -and allow him to return to full match fitness; but we dont have it. At most, and assuming DC is still out, he's got only until the window to prove himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Based on the fact the Pulis couldn't even get a place on the bench under three(?) different managers that's a fair assumption. Lee has been out injuried and is a least getting on the bench which suggests NA (and AP before him) felt he added to the squad something Pulis couldn't convince any manager of. Not the point though is it. We don't necessarily need to give player a lengthy run in the first team for us to take a view on their suitability do we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint-crinny Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Mentioned it on another thread but i think the only real issue with Lee at the moment is fitness and sharpness. His touch is normally good but was off last night, understandably after a long time out of the picture. A fully fit Barnard would be a useful addition in this league - we create a fair few chances and on form, he's a good little finisher so no reason to think that he wouldnt cut in the Championship. The real problem is how to get him fit. We can't afford to carry anyone - games are tight and we need everyone firing - so we can't really let Lee play his way back to fitness and form. Other option is loaning him out, but we do certainly need him in reserve if RL was to pick up a knock for example. Tricky... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spyinthesky Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Would love to be proved wrong but think Lee is a decent, hard working but limited, League 1 player who probably does not meet our current criteria, and certainly not the standards required if we were to progress to the Prem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forever a red and white Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Barnard def adds something to the team. He makes an awful lot of runs and this in itself can lead to chances created or even being an important firts line of defence. He struck up and decent partnership with Rickie last season too. There were some comments on another thread about needing to regain match fitness, but he also needs to get his match sharpness in. He like all of the players deserves the chance to prove himself in this league and the season really starts for him now with a clean slate. (Of course pending his court case.) Give Barny a chance its the least he deserves. How can we write him off when he has had so few minutes on the pitch this season. Hammond, Rickie, Richardson and plenty of players have proved doubters wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Let us give him a chance for goodness sake. He has only just returned from a long layoff and will take time to get fully fit and match sharpness. He had some great games for us last season when on song, so let us wait and see what he can do in this league when up to speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsaint Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 If you were a CH, there would be plenty of championship players you would rather have to deal with than Barney. There would be plenty of Championship teams interested in him if he became available. Lots of games, lots of "little situations " to come yet>...i am happy to bet that barney gets us a vital goal or two somewhere on the road that is 2011/2012. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dig Dig Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 IMO when Barney is fully fit, he's easily a 10-15 goal a season striker in this league. Not amazing but I'd rather him in our squad than anywhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfc4prem Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 He's a great finisher and could do a job for us in this league no doubt. Especially when players like Chris Wood are getting hattricks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Well after playing less than one half of football this season it would seem quite a few people think Barney isn't up to the championship. I suppose not scoring a couple of hattricks in three sub apperances would suggest that Lee is in fact crap.... Just out of interest is he "not up to it" in the same way as Lambert and Hammond weren't up to it in the summer or is he "not up to it" in a different way? It may well be the case that Lee "isn't up to it" but shouldn't we let him get a decent run of games first before writing him off? There always seems to be a minority who want to drop /sell / replace a striker who's gone 5 matches without scoring, but few (VERY few) score regularly throughout the season. Strikers are reliant on good service and without that they are about as involved as the linesmen in a game (sorry ASSISTANT REFEREES). Just take a look at some prev.records as you'll see. James Beattie went 10 games before scoring in season 2002-03 then scored 11 goals in 8 games, and later on scored in 6 consecutive games in the Spring. He ended up with 23 Prem. goals and was beaten only by Thierry Henry (when at his best). Barnard needs to get back a few 95 minute games under his belt, and getting chances regularly... then he 'll be back to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Last night I thought Guly did little other than his goal. . Your point is well made, but which is more important ...a striker who scores a goal.... or a midfielder who runs his a** off and never scores ? I really admired Brett Ormerod for his tireless work rate, but his scoring record was little better than some midfielders ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ottery st mary Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Barnard def adds something to the team. He makes an awful lot of runs and this in itself can lead to chances created or even being an important firts line of defence. He struck up and decent partnership with Rickie last season too. There were some comments on another thread about needing to regain match fitness, but he also needs to get his match sharpness in. He like all of the players deserves the chance to prove himself in this league and the season really starts for him now with a clean slate. (Of course pending his court case.) Give Barny a chance its the least he deserves. How can we write him off when he has had so few minutes on the pitch this season. Hammond, Rickie, Richardson and plenty of players have proved doubters wrong. Thank you........Saved me some time there... Lee Barnard is a very good Saints plkayer and gives his all........ Will be alright for us and help us win this league.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroppie Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 Also defends well from the front closing down defenders. Compare and contrast with Guly! That was noticeable last night - SDR does the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Saints Posted 30 November, 2011 Share Posted 30 November, 2011 When fit he was our best player at times last season so to write him off after 3 sub appearances is rather stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 When fit he was our best player at times last season so to write him off after 3 sub appearances is rather stupid.[/quote] Agree totally!..why is it a section of the fanbase want to sell everyone and sack the manager every time we don't win by a three goal margin ? Weird ! Strikers by nature have "dry spells " between bursts of success. Any striker who scores in more than three successive games is very rare, and three hat-tricks in a season (from any TEAM) is even more unusual. Why should Barnard's very short sub.appearances (without scoring) be a sign that he is "not up to it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 He will be OK for us this season, but he suffers from two errors. Firstly his angry "in your face", which wins him nothing and secondly forever trying to win free kicks. I don't mind a trick or two, but he must be well known by the referees for it, because he seldom gets anything. The combination trick of first playing at being pushed in the back, followed by angry protestations with the ref is nearly a guarantee for not getting any decisions for the rest of the game. However, I've got no criticism for lack of hard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Village Saint Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 In my opinion he wasn't up to it at times last season. I don't think anyone can argue that Maynard is a better player for example. I don't know. I rather suspect that you meant to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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