Bradley WP-Yes Or No!?!

[farawaysaint]

Scored against Arsenal as well, Saint legend.

[The9]

Never going to miss another one-on-one he said.

 

He was good for us for basically two matches around 6 years ago, away to Derby first game of the season and away to Reading when we won 3-2(?). Pace and nothing else.

[simo]

Top scorer in the mls!

[The9]

Top scorer in the mls!

 

Have you seen the standard of defending in MLS? Lower end Championship standard and glacial turning speeds for most clubs, and he was decent for Charlton in L1, so shouldn't really have a problem scoring. Even Thierry Henry gets a few goals, and though he can still glide with the ball, he doesn't have the same pace, or the inclination to run much any more.

[Gorgiesaint]

Have you seen the standard of defending in MLS? Lower end Championship standard and glacial turning speeds for most clubs, and he was decent for Charlton in L1, so shouldn't really have a problem scoring. Even Thierry Henry gets a few goals, and though he can still glide with the ball, he doesn't have the same pace, or the inclination to run much any more.

 

Exactly, if Liam Ridgewell makes the MLS All Star Team then you can only imagine the quality of the rest.

[st alex]

Hadn't realised he's 29 (yrs old) already.

[kpturner]

All this business about the standard of the MLS does make me laugh. After all, the MLS produced a large part of the USA team that have outperformed England at the last two World Cups. Same goes for the Dutch. Maybe having a poor standard of league football is the way ahead for England - or maybe the EPL is not all that it is cracked up to be.

[oldskoolsi]

All this business about the standard of the MLS does make me laugh. After all, the MLS produced a large part of the USA team that have outperformed England at the last two World Cups. Same goes for the Dutch. Maybe having a poor standard of league football is the way ahead for England - or maybe the EPL is not all that it is cracked up to be.

 

How the respective national teams did in the world cup is irrelevant. If that was an all star MLS team, how would they fair against an all star premier league team? And not in a one off game.

[kpturner]

How the respective national teams did in the world cup is irrelevant. If that was an all star MLS team, how would they fair against an all star premier league team? And not in a one off game.

Of course it is relevant! The league produces players capable of performing at the highest level, so posters who discount a players achievements just because they play in the MLS are conveniently overlooking that fact. An all-stars match may result in a one-sided affair in the EPL's favour, but a match between an "MLS team of all Americans" against an "EPL team of all English" would be a totally different kettle of fish.....although I doubt it will ever be proved.

[david in sweden]

He's found his level.

 

.....is already playing above his level ....good on occasions but lacks consistancy.

[benjii]

All this business about the standard of the MLS does make me laugh. After all, the MLS produced a large part of the USA team that have outperformed England at the last two World Cups. Same goes for the Dutch. Maybe having a poor standard of league football is the way ahead for England - or maybe the EPL is not all that it is cracked up to be.

 

Putting aside the specific issue of England underperforming, it helps when players arrive at a world cup without being burned out/knackered. I would say the rigour of the EPL is the problem, not the quality.

 

Who were say, the top ten players at the world cup:

 

Robben

Neymar

Rodrigues

Messi

Mascherrano

Muller

Schweinsteiger

Kroos

Benzema

Neuer

 

 

Obviously it's subjective but none of them play in the EPL. Did any EPL player stand out? Vlaar, I guess.

 

Aguero - crocked

Rooney - carp

Toure - carp

Hazard - average

RVP - good in bursts but hardly a stand out

Gerrard - carp

[oldskoolsi]

Of course it is relevant! The league produces players capable of performing at the highest level, so posters who discount a players achievements just because they play in the MLS are conveniently overlooking that fact. An all-stars match may result in a one-sided affair in the EPL's favour, but a match between an "MLS team of all Americans" against an "EPL team of all English" would be a totally different kettle of fish.....although I doubt it will ever be proved.

 

Whether it produces players who are capable of performing at a world class level is irrelevant when you are comparing standards of football played in the league. You yourself said the English league is better quality. Discussing which league produces more world class players is a completely separate argument. And tbh I'd still take the prem team of English players over the mls team of Americans. Only 11 of the 23 players in the world cup squad came from mls, and only 6 of the starting 11 from their last 16 match against Belgium.

[kpturner]

Whether it produces players who are capable of performing at a world class level is irrelevant when you are comparing standards of football played in the league. You yourself said the English league is better quality. Discussing which league produces more world class players is a completely separate argument. And tbh I'd still take the prem team of English players over the mls team of Americans. Only 11 of the 23 players in the world cup squad came from mls, and only 6 of the starting 11 from their last 16 match against Belgium.

"Only 6 from the starting 11" - so more than half of the team then. They probably all came from the MLS originally - but anyway, whilst I would like to argue with you all day, I think you are over analysing my original post. I am (or was) merely pointing out the propensity to write off a players achievements, or his ability to perform in the EPL, just because he currently plies his trade in the MLS or Eredivisie. Edited 7 August, 2014 by kpturner

[oldskoolsi]

"Only 6 from the starting 11" - so more than half of the team then. They probably all came from the MLS originally - but anyway, whilst I would like to argue with you all day, I think you are over analysing my original post. I am (or was) merely pointing out the propensity to write off a players achievements, or his ability to perform in the EPL, just because he currently plies his trade in the MLS or Eredivisie.

 

Yup, I can't argue all day either. I'm too cheap to afford more than the 3 posts. I don't think anyone in this thread wrote off someone's achievements just because they were in mls bar bwp, who only achieved success in league 1 here. I'm sure no one denies there are good players in mls, however, as whole it isn't as good a league. I'm also sure most, bar maybe the African nation's, teams in the world cup all had a large part of their team were produced by their home top league. It means very little. You could easily say the same about most of the countries that din't qualify. Over half of the current US squad and almost half the US team do not play in the mls now.

 

Also another indicator at how good the quality is, is how many other country's internationals play in the MLS. Not very many. From what i've seen, people don't write off players just from what league they come from, but there is often a worry about whether they'll 'step up'. It's the same as buying players from lower English division or top nglish team buying players from us. Can they improve? People thought it about Wanyama last year and he showed he could. I'm sure Norwich fans were wondering it about Ricky Van Wolfswinkle (who joined from Portugal, another perceived weaker league) and he couldn't. There's nothing wrong with thinking some leagues are worse than others and worrying about whether good players from bad leagues can compete in better leagues.

[BlakeySFC]

The MLS is a pub league, filled with sh!te old has-beens that are looking for their final pay day, it'll never be taken seriously until it enforces a Promotion/Relegation system and does-away with the stupid MLS play-off nonsense.

 

BWP scoring 15 goals just shows what a sh!te league it is, a L1 standard striker at most.

 

Yes the Yanks produced some decent players from the MLS and US Football do a better job of integrating players from the MLS into the US National team than the PL do with the English national team. Yedlin, Dempsey, Bradley, Donovan etc. are all decent players but Klinsmann has also played a blinder in convincing about 3/4 Germans to represent the US as well, god knows why a German would want to play for a team that will never have any prospect of winning the World Cup but that's none of my business I guess.

Edited 7 August, 2014 by BlakeySFC

[Saint Fan CaM]

NO.

[Batman]

proves how shyte the MLS is when he is a star player

[sadoldgit]

WTF? Havent we got better things to argue about???

[Redslo]

The MLS is a pub league, filled with sh!te old has-beens that are looking for their final pay day, it'll never be taken seriously until it enforces a Promotion/Relegation system and does-away with the stupid MLS play-off nonsense.

 

BWP scoring 15 goals just shows what a sh!te league it is, a L1 standard striker at most.

 

Yes the Yanks produced some decent players from the MLS and US Football do a better job of integrating players from the MLS into the US National team than the PL do with the English national team. Yedlin, Dempsey, Bradley, Donovan etc. are all decent players but Klinsmann has also played a blinder in convincing about 3/4 Germans to represent the US as well, god knows why a German would want to play for a team that will never have any prospect of winning the World Cup but that's none of my business I guess.

 

While everything you said is true in some ways, it is also not true in others. (Please note that I am an American, but I pay lots more attention to the BPL than to MLS.)

 

The lack of a promotion relegation system is due to the fact, among other, that people pay lots of money for MLS franchises and would not be willing to do if the value could disappear overnight with relegation.

 

Also, the relegation/promotion system is the primary reason why so few teams have a chance to compete for the title of most football leagues. Big clubs are far more likely to agree to revenue sharing systems if they do not risk relegation in bad years. In MLS, every team can become competitive with just a couple of years of good management. The playoff system reinforces this by making it possible for several additional teams to have successful seasons and by eliminating the possibility that the league championship will be settled too early. Moreover, the only real flaw with playoff systems is that the best team doesn't always win. That has not stopped the Superbowl or World Series from being successful. For that matter, the Champions League is really a playoff system.

 

As for America never winning the world cup, you are correct that the current batch of American-German players will not win a world cup, but they also might not have ever played for Germany. As for the more distant future, you should not underestimate the large number of athletes the USA can produce given its large population. And right now there are a lot of American kids playing soccer. And if something game changing occurred, the USA could easily become a soccer power. (For example, what if it became settled that American Football as played by the NFL was simply too dangerous so the NFL went out of business. An unlike possibility to be sure, but not an impossible one.)

[kpturner]

Yup, I can't argue all day either. I'm too cheap to afford more than the 3 posts. I don't think anyone in this thread wrote off someone's achievements just because they were in mls bar bwp, who only achieved success in league 1 here. I'm sure no one denies there are good players in mls, however, as whole it isn't as good a league. I'm also sure most, bar maybe the African nation's, teams in the world cup all had a large part of their team were produced by their home top league. It means very little. You could easily say the same about most of the countries that din't qualify. Over half of the current US squad and almost half the US team do not play in the mls now.

 

Also another indicator at how good the quality is, is how many other country's internationals play in the MLS. Not very many. From what i've seen, people don't write off players just from what league they come from, but there is often a worry about whether they'll 'step up'. It's the same as buying players from lower English division or top nglish team buying players from us. Can they improve? People thought it about Wanyama last year and he showed he could. I'm sure Norwich fans were wondering it about Ricky Van Wolfswinkle (who joined from Portugal, another perceived weaker league) and he couldn't. There's nothing wrong with thinking some leagues are worse than others and worrying about whether good players from bad leagues can compete in better leagues.

Yaaawwwnnn!

Like I said - completely over analysing it

Edited 7 August, 2014 by kpturner

[sadoldgit]

While everything you said is true in some ways, it is also not true in others. (Please note that I am an American, but I pay lots more attention to the BPL than to MLS.)

 

The lack of a promotion relegation system is due to the fact, among other, that people pay lots of money for MLS franchises and would not be willing to do if the value could disappear overnight with relegation.

 

Also, the relegation/promotion system is the primary reason why so few teams have a chance to compete for the title of most football leagues. Big clubs are far more likely to agree to revenue sharing systems if they do not risk relegation in bad years. In MLS, every team can become competitive with just a couple of years of good management. The playoff system reinforces this by making it possible for several additional teams to have successful seasons and by eliminating the possibility that the league championship will be settled too early. Moreover, the only real flaw with playoff systems is that the best team doesn't always win. That has not stopped the Superbowl or World Series from being successful. For that matter, the Champions League is really a playoff system.

 

As for America never winning the world cup, you are correct that the current batch of American-German players will not win a world cup, but they also might not have ever played for Germany. As for the more distant future, you should not underestimate the large number of athletes the USA can produce given its large population. And right now there are a lot of American kids playing soccer. And if something game changing occurred, the USA could easily become a soccer power. (For example, what if it became settled that American Football as played by the NFL was simply too dangerous so the NFL went out of business. An unlike possibility to be sure, but not an impossible one.)

 

Given that you Yanks put bods on the moon I am sure that, once you get your @rses into gear, you will win the World Cup. I dont know why it is taking so long but eventually you will get enough people to realise that baseball is boring and American football doesnt have the qualities that "soccer" can give you. Your big problem is getting over the 0-0 draw.

[SaintBobby]

Beyond mad.

 

Just no.

 

 

Does any remotely sane Saints fan want us to buy him?

 

As I say, beyond mad...

[for_heaven's_Saint]

Beyond mad.

 

Just no.

 

 

Does any remotely sane Saints fan want us to buy him?

 

As I say, beyond mad...

 

Look at the date of the OP mate...

[doggface]

The mls is ****, I go once a month or so. On a par with league one IMO but less competitive.

 

some live football is better than none I guess.

 

At least the beer and food is night and day from back home!

[BlakeySFC]

The mls is ****, I go once a month or so. On a par with league one IMO but less competitive.

 

some live football is better than none I guess.

 

At least the beer and food is night and day from back home!

 

[OldNick]

Until the Americans call it football and not soccer they should be banned. Their football should be called handball

[georgeweahscousin]

I can't believe this is even being discussed.....

[CB Fry]

I can't believe this is even being discussed.....

It isn't.

[kpturner]

Beyond mad.

 

Just no.

 

 

Does any remotely sane Saints fan want us to buy him?

 

As I say, beyond mad...

 

[percy windham]

Have you seen the standard of defending in MLS? Lower end Championship standard and glacial turning speeds for most clubs, and he was decent for Charlton in L1, so shouldn't really have a problem scoring. Even Thierry Henry gets a few goals, and though he can still glide with the ball, he doesn't have the same pace, or the inclination to run much any more.

 

 

Don't say that! You'll have TijuanaTim back on here!

[oldskoolsi]

Yaaawwwnnn!

Like I said - completely over analysing it

 

Almost worth paying the fiver to avoid the wait.

 

If overanalysing it means trying to make a reasoned argument then guilty. However if you want a simple answer then OK; nothing you have said has shown the MLS is not a poor quality league that most people think it to be.

[kpturner]

Almost worth paying the fiver to avoid the wait.

 

If overanalysing it means trying to make a reasoned argument then guilty. However if you want a simple answer then OK; nothing you have said has shown the MLS is not a poor quality league that most people think it to be.

Over-analysing, missing the point, double negatives, wasting posts. Keep it up - we'll have a fiver out of you yet.....

[oldskoolsi]

Over-analysing, missing the point, double negatives, wasting posts. Keep it up - we'll have a fiver out of you yet.....

 

You'll be lucky. Nothing else worth posting on. Anyway your original point was proved pointless. Some rubbish leagues produce good national teams and some good leagues produce rubbish national leagues.

[kpturner]

You'll be lucky. Nothing else worth posting on. Anyway your original point was proved pointless. Some rubbish leagues produce good national teams and some good leagues produce rubbish national leagues.

I am perfectly happy with my original post and the casual observation I was trying to making thanks. If you would like to waste another of your posts in a futile (and probably long-winded) attempt to convince me otherwise then feel free. I can't promise I will read it right to the end though.

[The9]

Having just seen his goal against Bayern in the All-Star game I can see why this got bumped. But anyone can hammer a bouncing ball on astroturf.

[oldskoolsi]

I am perfectly happy with my original post and the casual observation I was trying to making thanks. If you would like to waste another of your posts in a futile (and probably long-winded) attempt to convince me otherwise then feel free. I can't promise I will read it right to the end though.

 

Cheers, I'm glad you're enjoying the troll banter as much as me. In an attempt to be vaguely on topic I'll say that your casual observation that the premier might not be that good is as well argued as the rest of your statement. Is it the best? Probably not. Is is better than the Dutch league? probably. Is it better than MLS? definitely. Same time tomorrow then?

[kpturner]

Cheers, I'm glad you're enjoying the troll banter as much as me. In an attempt to be vaguely on topic I'll say that your casual observation that the premier might not be that good is as well argued as the rest of your statement. Is it the best? Probably not. Is is better than the Dutch league? probably. Is it better than MLS? definitely. Same time tomorrow then?

no- I am seriously bored now......you'll have to carry on alone.

[oldskoolsi]

no- I am seriously bored now......you'll have to carry on alone.

Success!