buctootim Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 (edited) I'm always split over wages like this. On the surface, you can get all angry, but if you want decent people to run organisations like this, you have to pay them the 6 figure sums or you'll have crap managers and one thing you need in an organisation like Cancer Research UK or even the NHS is good managers. He may get 221k a year, but if he is a good manager he'll bring in much more than that extra. Agree. A good NHS oncology consultant with a merit award will earn over £160,000pa so £220,000pa for the CEO of a research charity arguably isnt excessive. By the same token phd biochemists who do far more of the real research than medically qualified staff will earn maybe £30,000pa, so you could probably get away with paying a lot less without losing ability. To the point of does the head of Cancer Research UK deserve his £221,000pa more than a top rated MacDonalds worker's £14,000pa, only Jackanory can tell us. Edited 2 December, 2011 by buctootim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 I just did. Let me spell it out: I don't think it would be a big ordeal, once the initial media circus had moved on. I don't think the 'footballing community' would care, frankly. But there is still a perceived taboo, by the footballers themselves. That is to say that it is still considered something best not done (as seen in those articles above about footballers been advised not to come out). But in actual fact I don't think it would be hard to break the self-enforced taboo. The media would move on, the footballers themselves too, probably, in most cases... But the football fans? I doubt it - at least en masse on matchdays. Where's the evidence that they would just let it lie? Just imagine if one of the Brighton players really was gay... It's also tautological to call a taboo 'self-enforcing' - all of them are to some degree. But no taboo would need to be broken if it easy to come out of the closet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 The media would move on, the footballers themselves too, probably, in most cases... But the football fans? I doubt it - at least en masse on matchdays. Where's the evidence that they would just let it lie? Just imagine if one of the Brighton players really was gay... It's also tautological to call a taboo 'self-enforcing' - all of them are to some degree. But no taboo would need to be broken if it easy to come out of the closet. Football culture is pretty much 20 years behind the times in most aspects. Whilst sexuality may not matter so much in other speres of life, it still does in football. Wasnt le Saux suspected of being gay for having a degree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 The media would move on, the footballers themselves too, probably, in most cases... But the football fans? I doubt it - at least en masse on matchdays. Where's the evidence that they would just let it lie? Just imagine if one of the Brighton players really was gay... It's also tautological to call a taboo 'self-enforcing' - all of them are to some degree. But no taboo would need to be broken if it easy to come out of the closet. Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If I stood up at the next home game and shouted at one of their black players a "Oi! N****r. Do you want a banana etc etc" how long would I remain at the game? I reckon I would be out the gates in seconds. And the other people around me would help chuck me out. I totally believe if real nasty stuff was shouted at an openly gay player the same would happen. But I guess we will never know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. If I stood up at the next home game and shouted at one of their black players a "Oi! N****r. Do you want a banana etc etc" how long would I remain at the game? I reckon I would be out the gates in seconds. And the other people around me would help chuck me out. I totally believe if real nasty stuff was shouted at an openly gay player the same would happen. But I guess we will never know... I disagree. Homophobia is behind Racism by many years. Homophobia is still seen as acceptable by many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 I disagree. Homophobia is behind Racism by many years. Homophobia is still seen as acceptable by many. I am sure the stewards/police wouldn't stand idly by. Once one is chucked out, it would set a precedent and I am fairly sure the idea will catch on that it is unacceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 I am sure the stewards/police wouldn't stand idly by. Once one is chucked out, it would set a precedent and I am fairly sure the idea will catch on that it is unacceptable. Probably, but that wouldn't change attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 When you grow up you might change your view of life and become more open minded, unlike the blind extreme left wingers you high five on here all the time. I bet he won't. Know-it-all teens always turn into know-it-all adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shurlock Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 Homophobia is the one thing that unites all colours and creeds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derry Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 Hypothetically in the alleged circumstances given the row, could it have been the beloved wife's alleged reaction that was the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 http://www.thespoof.com/news/magazine/gary_speed_gay_gossip_tabloid_suicide_10241.htm#this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
View From The Top Posted 2 December, 2011 Share Posted 2 December, 2011 Always assumed it was VFT Top in the naval sense myself. You know up the mast,little platform and all that. VFTT was a naval man I think. Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintjersey Posted 3 December, 2011 Share Posted 3 December, 2011 This Gary Speed obsession is getting quite frankly embarrassing. Yes he died young and yes he was a wonderful player but he was a footballer, a man who was overly paid for kicking a ball about. The amount of people who pathetically talk about him as if they knew guy personally is really quite outstanding. What really f***s me off is that people are forgetting he committed suicide. He didn't die from an illness, a terrible accident or old age. He decided to end his own life and leave his wife without a husband and left his kids without a father. To put it bluntly he was selfish and noway deserves all this ridiculous media attention and tributes. If the guy improved the world in some way then I am all for this attention, but he didn't. So yes it is sad a nice man died, but nice men and women die everyday and get f*** all sympathy so why should this guy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott_saints Posted 3 December, 2011 Share Posted 3 December, 2011 This Gary Speed obsession is getting quite frankly embarrassing. Yes he died young and yes he was a wonderful player but he was a footballer, a man who was overly paid for kicking a ball about. The amount of people who pathetically talk about him as if they knew guy personally is really quite outstanding. What really f***s me off is that people are forgetting he committed suicide. He didn't die from an illness, a terrible accident or old age. He decided to end his own life and leave his wife without a husband and left his kids without a father. To put it bluntly he was selfish and noway deserves all this ridiculous media attention and tributes. If the guy improved the world in some way then I am all for this attention, but he didn't. So yes it is sad a nice man died, but nice men and women die everyday and get f*** all sympathy so why should this guy? He probably did die of an illness though. And yes he got overly paid for getting for kicking a ball about. Kicking a ball about its one of the most populr things in this country. So that's why he has got more sympathy than others, rightly or wrongly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 3 December, 2011 Share Posted 3 December, 2011 Mental illnesses should really get the same level as physical illnesses. Depression is an illness just as much as cancer or HIV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chin Strain Posted 3 December, 2011 Share Posted 3 December, 2011 This Gary Speed obsession is getting quite frankly embarrassing. Yes he died young and yes he was a wonderful player but he was a footballer, a man who was overly paid for kicking a ball about. The amount of people who pathetically talk about him as if they knew guy personally is really quite outstanding. What really f***s me off is that people are forgetting he committed suicide. He didn't die from an illness, a terrible accident or old age. He decided to end his own life and leave his wife without a husband and left his kids without a father. To put it bluntly he was selfish and noway deserves all this ridiculous media attention and tributes. If the guy improved the world in some way then I am all for this attention, but he didn't. So yes it is sad a nice man died, but nice men and women die everyday and get f*** all sympathy so why should this guy? Is everything really so black and white in your world? Sometimes there are shades of grey too you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saintandy666 Posted 3 December, 2011 Share Posted 3 December, 2011 This Gary Speed obsession is getting quite frankly embarrassing. Yes he died young and yes he was a wonderful player but he was a footballer, a man who was overly paid for kicking a ball about. The amount of people who pathetically talk about him as if they knew guy personally is really quite outstanding. What really f***s me off is that people are forgetting he committed suicide. He didn't die from an illness, a terrible accident or old age. He decided to end his own life and leave his wife without a husband and left his kids without a father. To put it bluntly he was selfish and noway deserves all this ridiculous media attention and tributes. If the guy improved the world in some way then I am all for this attention, but he didn't. So yes it is sad a nice man died, but nice men and women die everyday and get f*** all sympathy so why should this guy? They do get sympathy, just only from their friends and family as they aren't very famous footballers who bought joy to millions who watched them. I think perspective is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted 3 December, 2011 Share Posted 3 December, 2011 This Gary Speed obsession is getting quite frankly embarrassing. Yes he died young and yes he was a wonderful player but he was a footballer, a man who was overly paid for kicking a ball about. The amount of people who pathetically talk about him as if they knew guy personally is really quite outstanding. What really f***s me off is that people are forgetting he committed suicide. He didn't die from an illness, a terrible accident or old age. He decided to end his own life and leave his wife without a husband and left his kids without a father. To put it bluntly he was selfish and noway deserves all this ridiculous media attention and tributes. If the guy improved the world in some way then I am all for this attention, but he didn't. So yes it is sad a nice man died, but nice men and women die everyday and get f*** all sympathy so why should this guy? Oh dear - a bit radical and controversial. But I do agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 3 December, 2011 Share Posted 3 December, 2011 Apolgies in advancif going off topic... No he did not. I think you have worked in a certain type of media for too long by jumping to ill informed, sensationalist conclusions based on little fact and poor research... there are countless examples of such sensationalist ****ewritten about medicine in the red top rags....and others by those ignorant of the facts who stir the crap for a good story. One recent sensationlist headline by gutter press meant that a certain Biopharmaceutical company will now not be able to offer a cutting edge cancer treatment to more patients by using an outcomes based risk sharing agreement, because gutter press suggested it was more to do with the company not being secure of the products quality - yet the reality is that such agreements are the only way in which access to expensive treatments can be given to patients where health service budgets restrict its use... so I suggest that if Cancer is an issue close to your heart (and I feel for anyone who has been effected by this - as 1 in 3 do, I have personal experience watching my wife suffer with Leukemia) - you ditch the fake outrage in defending the waste of space utter ****e sensationlist gutter press and your being in awe of 'their hard working editors' - tell them to stick their jobs because they work for organisations that as a direct result of their sensationlism end up restricting innovative cancer treatments being available... ? Buctootim was being critical of you, nothing more. As someone who has personal experience of cancer, there was NOTHING remotely offensive in his response to your post or subsequent 'moral outrage' - suggest you take a look at yourself in the mirror and the put the utter shiete gutter press under the moral microscope before jumping to such ridiculous conclusions Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 4 December, 2011 Share Posted 4 December, 2011 What an awful week for football; first Speed and now Socrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 4 December, 2011 Share Posted 4 December, 2011 This Gary Speed obsession is getting quite frankly embarrassing. Yes he died young and yes he was a wonderful player but he was a footballer, a man who was overly paid for kicking a ball about. The amount of people who pathetically talk about him as if they knew guy personally is really quite outstanding. What really f***s me off is that people are forgetting he committed suicide. He didn't die from an illness, a terrible accident or old age. He decided to end his own life and leave his wife without a husband and left his kids without a father. To put it bluntly he was selfish and noway deserves all this ridiculous media attention and tributes. If the guy improved the world in some way then I am all for this attention, but he didn't. So yes it is sad a nice man died, but nice men and women die everyday and get f*** all sympathy so why should this guy? **** me, I thought I was emotionally stunted! Firstly, depression is an illness, just like any other. To say someone is selfish for taking their own life is just retarded. Secondly, what job someone does doesn't make their death any more or less sad. The sad thing about any death is the loss people feel when they are no longer here. With Gary Speed millions of people grew up enjoying watching him play football, it's right alot off people are effected by his death. Personally I find his case alot more tragic than many others. Suicide is a problem particularly for men. It's the second biggest killer of young men in this country just behind traffic accidents. Gary Speed is someone many men admire, he had it all, millions in the bank, nice wife, kids, great job. The fact that even he is not immune to this silent killer makes it particularly sad IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano6 Posted 4 December, 2011 Share Posted 4 December, 2011 While depression is an illness, the signs point to the fact he didn't have it. That's the view of the people closest to him anyway. I just don't believe you can hide something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjii Posted 4 December, 2011 Share Posted 4 December, 2011 Why are people diagnosing someone they've never met and know very little about with "depression"? Highly speculative. Seems more like a so-called "cry for help", that went wrong, linked to a specific crisis (but then I am just speculating too). Either way, that's not to say it isn't a deeply sad thing and not to say there isn't something overwhelmingly unrational about it. But can we be spared the sanctominy, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearsy Posted 5 December, 2011 Share Posted 5 December, 2011 He probably did die of an illness though. I don't think you're allowed to call it an illness any more pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thedelldays Posted 5 December, 2011 Share Posted 5 December, 2011 I heard he was offered the pompey job!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 6 December, 2011 Share Posted 6 December, 2011 Someone jumped in front of the aberdeen train at Kirkcaldy lastnight and didnt survive . A load of yobs thought it was extremely funny mocking the deceased> i hope they were frezing like may as they waited for the replacement train Knobs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Posted 6 December, 2011 Share Posted 6 December, 2011 Darren Anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 6 December, 2011 Share Posted 6 December, 2011 Darren Anderton what about him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spudders Posted 6 December, 2011 Share Posted 6 December, 2011 Someone jumped in front of the aberdeen train at Kirkcaldy lastnight and didnt survive . A load of yobs thought it was extremely funny mocking the deceased> i hope they were frezing like may as they waited for the replacement train Knobs It fecks me right off when people jump in front of a train or tube. If people can't cope with life and want to end it then fair enough (all be it sad and avoidable), but to do it publically and potentially inconvenience hundreds of people in the process is a disgrace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skintsaint Posted 15 January, 2012 Share Posted 15 January, 2012 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2086892/Dean-Windass-attempted-suicide.html seems a common problem these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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