Huffton Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 Don't know if this is old news but Saints are trialling a GLT system called Hawkeye, just been on SSN. Rochdale (!) are trialling a different system Edit: just seen the post in the Lounge. Lock away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 Hawkeye are based at Winchester so it makes sense to do the proving trials at SMS especially as it is a FIFA endorsed stadium. Not much to dispute 'though when Lambert, R gets on the end of one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattio Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 I assume its not actually being used for the results of the match? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somewhere In Northam Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 iirc we were "testing" hawkeye last season should be a few threads on here about it actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 I assume its not actually being used for the results of the match? No of course it won't be... unless "approved " by the Football League or whoever much further ahead in time ... but it wouldn't do any harm to use it to monitor a few games and invite an FA representative in to take a look ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 big item on BBC site regarding the "testing " of suitable systems that could be implemented for season 2012-13 ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 (edited) Report from Sky here: http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16116528 Quite interesting - we get 5 sec mention at the end of the clip. Edited 24 November, 2011 by Micky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The9 Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 (edited) Report from Sky here: http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16116528 Quite interesting - we get 5 sec mention at the end of the clip. Most interesting thing in that clip is the example of whether the ball was over the line or not - firstly 95% of football fans would (wrongly) claim it was in to begin with, and secondly the (Sky) camera didn't actually show the only angle from which you could properly decide, which was directly overhead. They chose to deliberately show a less accurate angle, and then the same ball again from another, unclear angle. this is not about "how it appears", this is about "how it is when judged perfectly", and it might be nice if they started reporting it as such, what's the point of going to all the expense and trouble of installation when the press are still (literally) looking for the controversial angle ? I also have some doubts that the camera-based system sitting just behind the goalpost would work if the post was collided with, or if the ball hits the camera bank behind the line and it's natural flight/spin is affected... and what happens if it's faulty and just won't work ? You play with it switched off at both ends, but it's in use in every other match ? Where's the fairness in that ? Edited 24 November, 2011 by The9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Wayman Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 what happens if it's faulty and just won't work ? You play with it switched off at both ends, but it's in use in every other match ? Where's the fairness in that ? Hawkeye have years of experience in Tennis and Cricket where a much smaller ball travels at 100mph and it has not been faulty at all so footie should be a doddle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 I also have some doubts that the camera-based system sitting just behind the goalpost would work if the post was collided with, or if the ball hits the camera bank behind the line and it's natural flight/spin is affected... and what happens if it's faulty and just won't work ? You play with it switched off at both ends, but it's in use in every other match ? Where's the fairness in that ? This struck me as well - although I'm assuming, that what we saw in the clip was merely a prototype of the finished product. If it's not then I could see it both taking and giving some serious damage. I'm not convinced that we really need these systems, yes over the course of the years there have probably been a handful of blatent 'goals' not given, and vice versa - but it all adds to the game. If this technology is used more than twice in a season in the same stadium - it would be unusual. It's probably going to be one of the redundant peices of equipment ever installed into football stadia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Posted 24 November, 2011 Share Posted 24 November, 2011 Hawkeye have years of experience in Tennis and Cricket where a much smaller ball travels at 100mph and it has not been faulty at all so footie should be a doddle Agreed Charlie - these sports lend themselves to the use of these systems, by the very nature of the sport. The 'in or out' call will be debated numerous times in probably every game / match. Hence is makes sence to make use of such systems. But I'd be surprised if the system is tested more than once in most football league grounds. Perhap they should be installed for major world / european competitions - but I'm not convinced we need them at every league ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 25 November, 2011 Share Posted 25 November, 2011 Hawkeye have years of experience in Tennis and Cricket where a much smaller ball travels at 100mph and it has not been faulty at all so footie should be a doddle Hmmmm There have been a lot of articles of late on Cricinfo on the subject. It's actually very detailed and the Indian Cricket Board's refusal to use DRS was explained in that there ARE issues in the accuracy of Hawkeye, (although they MAY not apply in UK or Soccer) Camears operate on a frames per minute basis (is the simple explanation), so the higher the frame rate the more reference points the software has. With English football pretty much totally HD now this is not really an issue, but many other countries world wide do not necessarily use this system. In Sri Lanka the Cameras were not to that spec and so the data for Hawkeye was less and it had a larger margin of error (remember the Cricket World Cup? The 2.5 metres in front of the stumps thing?) Anyway, the POINT is that what is being tested at SMS using Camera technology MUST be capable of being used GLOBALLY - after all it is FIFA that have to approve it, not the FA/FL alone, so the technology must be able to be used in all sorts of countires which may not have such widespread access to HD camera technology for every game. Oh and the comment about not being faulty? how does anyone KNOW? Ball track shows hitting a pad, so obviously there is no reference point of "reality" to check that against. The technology IS subjective, damned good, BUT subjective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai_phil Posted 25 November, 2011 Share Posted 25 November, 2011 A few of the links http://www.espncricinfo.com/sri-lanka-v-australia-2011/content/story/531324.html http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/story/522086.html Ian Taylor, the chief executive of Virtual Eye, the ball-tracking system that was used to judge leg-before decisions during the Ashes in Australia, said that the challenge is to take the technology to a level that leaves no doubt. "Our job is to take the technology to a level where the umpires never need to doubt us, and if they do that's fine, we haven't got there yet." Virtual Eye - Aussie competitor to Hawkeye http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/video_audio/522091.html Related - Hot Spot only 90-95% accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Jazzbo Posted 25 November, 2011 Share Posted 25 November, 2011 The FIFA Global operations Director has been at St Mary's this week. Possibly relating to a trial?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreeSixty Posted 25 November, 2011 Share Posted 25 November, 2011 Most interesting thing in that clip is the example of whether the ball was over the line or not - firstly 95% of football fans would (wrongly) claim it was in to begin with, and secondly the (Sky) camera didn't actually show the only angle from which you could properly decide, which was directly overhead. They chose to deliberately show a less accurate angle, and then the same ball again from another, unclear angle. this is not about "how it appears", this is about "how it is when judged perfectly", and it might be nice if they started reporting it as such, what's the point of going to all the expense and trouble of installation when the press are still (literally) looking for the controversial angle ? I also have some doubts that the camera-based system sitting just behind the goalpost would work if the post was collided with, or if the ball hits the camera bank behind the line and it's natural flight/spin is affected... and what happens if it's faulty and just won't work ? You play with it switched off at both ends, but it's in use in every other match ? Where's the fairness in that ? The real doubt i have with that system is corners, where alot of the contentious goals happen, with the ball hooked off the line by the man on the post. Say 1 on each post that is 2 views blocked. Is the system able to tell from just to overhead cameras? I doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 25 November, 2011 Share Posted 25 November, 2011 I saw the report on Sky News yesterday,now in the case of the system on display at Rochdale wouldn't they have to make the goal frames slightly bigger to incorporate the sensor panels on the inside without diminishing the actual goal surface.Thus the frame would be slightly bigger and a shot that hit the top of the bar and went over might now actually bounce back into play. I suppose you could make a goal frame with exactly the same dimensions and the sensors built into it but that's not what they had at Rochdale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 25 November, 2011 Share Posted 25 November, 2011 Hawkeye have years of experience in Tennis and Cricket where a much smaller ball travels at 100mph and it has not been faulty at all so footie should be a doddle How do you know it hasn't been faulty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 26 November, 2011 Share Posted 26 November, 2011 Hawkeye have years of experience in Tennis and Cricket where a much smaller ball travels at 100mph and it has not been faulty at all so footie should be a doddle well a football can be hit pretty hard, too. A few years back, Swedish TV Sport did a test with a few proffs. (incl. Henrik Larsson f.Celtic and Barca) for the hardest free kick. They all registered around 100 km/hr. and one was 108 km/h...that's around 80 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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