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Arrests over homophobic chants v Brighton


DT

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I'm intrigued as to how they pinpointed these two individuals when those singing the usual "we can see you holding hands" song must have numbered into the thousands.

 

Expect it was a case of thousands singing and the cops and stewards just staying stoney faced until the end of the chant, a couple of guys add something like "Gay ****s" at the top of their voice. Hey presto.

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Surely it can't be for the "we can see you holding hands" chant. That barely touches the boundaries of homophobia, especially seeing as most of them aren't actually gay in the first place.

 

There were a few blokes in the Northam singing, "you're just a town full of faggots" which I'd say crosses the line and actually is offensive.

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Expect it was a case of thousands singing and the cops and stewards just staying stoney faced until the end of the chant, a couple of guys add something like "Gay ****s" at the top of their voice. Hey presto.

 

That wouldn't be homphobic chanting though, that is a homphobic comment.

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Surely it can't be for the "we can see you holding hands" chant. That barely touches the boundaries of homophobia, especially seeing as most of them aren't actually gay in the first place.

 

There were a few blokes in the Northam singing, "you're just a town full of faggots" which I'd say crosses the line and actually is offensive.

 

This. The "holding hands" "Does your boyfriend" thing wont be on the Police's radar with regards to "offensive anti-gay chants" mentioned in the article. When 1 or 2 planks cross the divide between banter and bigotry, that's when the Police with step in.

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There was one chant which went "We are Southampton, we f*cking hate queers"

 

It didn't quite take off though and only a few were singing it. Would be interesting to know what these lads were singing though.

 

There were a few 'lads' at the top of the Kingsland North singing "HIV Positive, HIV Positive" for the whole game - a bit of banter like "We can see you holding hands" etc is fine by me, but I think that was too much.

Nobody seemed to give a f*ck though, even when they were singing it as the bloke was being chucked out a few rows across.

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There were a few 'lads' at the top of the Kingsland North singing "HIV Positive, HIV Positive" for the whole game - a bit of banter like "We can see you holding hands" etc is fine by me, but I think that was too much.

Nobody seemed to give a f*ck though, even when they were singing it as the bloke was being chucked out a few rows across.

 

 

I sit in the kingsland North and didn't hear this Mikey. Not far from you by the sounds of it either. :scared:

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no arrests or bother from stewards in block 3 and there was plenty of the usual Brighton songs being sung. maybe they were only interested in what was deemed seriously offensive, i.e the HIV one mentioned above.

sang the song the Palace fans sang at the Amex,while stood by stewards with no bother & this was used on the News as an example of unacceptable chanting?

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Surely that's just a statement of personal opinion.

I dislike my next door neighbour but doubt if I'd get arrested for saying so.

 

It's a bit different though. Think it's more the discrimination against a particular group of people, rather than the dislike of individuals. Don't get me wrong, i think the arrests are a bit of a joke, but homophobic chanting isn't the nicest thing in the world. When i say this i mean songs like "HIV Positive" and "we are southampton, we ****ing hate queers". The "holding hands" and "here for the shopping" songs are all good banter IMO. There is a line, and when it gets crossed it's not the nicest thing to hear.

 

A good mate of mine is of Asian-origin, and i remember one away game at Luton a good number of saints fans were singing "town full of pakis" during the game. Although i am white, it was pretty uncomfortable to hear and i know my mate felt pretty **** about it. I'd be interested to hear from a gay saints fan about which songs he finds offensive, or makes him feel uncomfortable...

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I was in Block 37, Row LL. They were in Block 38, 2nd row from the back. Where were you?

 

THe other directon from me then, i am block 36 (i think) row BB. Come over and shake your wrist bands at me next time i see you.

 

mort58.jpg

 

Do you know Morten Harkett from A-ha used to wear similar things, do you model yourself on him?

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Surely that's just a statement of personal opinion.

I dislike my next door neighbour but doubt if I'd get arrested for saying so.

 

Not really. I'd have said singing "we hate gays" is the very definition of homophobia.

 

Hating your neighbour is different, you might have a perfectly good, personal reason for doing so.

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It's a bit different though. Think it's more the discrimination against a particular group of people, rather than the dislike of individuals. Don't get me wrong, i think the arrests are a bit of a joke, but homophobic chanting isn't the nicest thing in the world. When i say this i mean songs like "HIV Positive" and "we are southampton, we ****ing hate queers". The "holding hands" and "here for the shopping" songs are all good banter IMO. There is a line, and when it gets crossed it's not the nicest thing to hear.

 

A good mate of mine is of Asian-origin, and i remember one away game at Luton a good number of saints fans were singing "town full of pakis" during the game. Although i am white, it was pretty uncomfortable to hear and i know my mate felt pretty **** about it. I'd be interested to hear from a gay saints fan about which songs he finds offensive, or makes him feel uncomfortable...

 

If I find out that we have a gay fan. I will stop supporting the club. There's no place for it in football.

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Not really. I'd have said singing "we hate gays" is the very definition of homophobia.

 

Hating your neighbour is different, you might have a perfectly good, personal reason for doing so.

 

Well it's a metaphysical question isn't it.I'd guess that quite a few people find the idea of gayness revolting but it seems that you're not allowed to say so(or at least in public) now.Freedom of speech yes but not about taboo subjects.

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The thing to remember in all of this, whether you like it or not, is that by the letter of the law, a Homophobic incident is defined by ACPO to be:

 

"Any incident which is perceived to be homophobic by the victim or any other person."

 

It is this issue of perception which is central to it. I have gay friends who wouldn't be offended by some of the things chanted, and I have straight friends who would...

 

When you're with friends, you know each other, you know what people find acceptable or not. In a stadium, you don't. And if the police receive complaints, they have a duty to investigate. I think Pancake has it right however and most people know where the rough boundaries are... 'holding hands' etc I would say was banter, but anything that uses specific language or words which would be classed as offensive when used in a direct capacity (i.e. calling someone a 'faggot' or 'HIV positive') I think you would have to be pretty stupid to use in a public arena like that and run the risk of someone complaining.

 

I would wager it is one of these more specific homophobic chants that has led to the arrest.

Edited by Minty
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Well it's a metaphysical question isn't it.I'd guess that quite a few people find the idea of gayness revolting but it seems that you're not allowed to say so(or at least in public) now.Freedom of speech yes but not about taboo subjects.

There's a difference between having an opinion about a specific practice, whilst respecting peoples choice to do so, and *hating* the practice and those who practice it.

 

Quite naturally, I would expect most if not all heterosexual men to not like the idea of gay practices, but that doesn't mean I can't talk about it, or that I hate gays.

 

To be honest, this forum is has always struggled with this general differentiation... disagreeing with something does not have to mean you have to criticise/disrespect/launch an abusive volley at the person you disagree with.

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My defence would be "Statistically speaking, if there were 2000 travelling fans, then at least 20 are homosexual. When I asked 'Does your boyfriend know you're here', I was asking a valid, if rather rhetorical, question"

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My defence would be "Statistically speaking, if there were 2000 travelling fans, then at least 20 are homosexual. When I asked 'Does your boyfriend know you're here', I was asking a valid, if rather rhetorical, question"

 

I thought it was 1 in 10, but yes you have a point.

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THe other directon from me then, i am block 36 (i think) row BB. Come over and shake your wrist bands at me next time i see you.

 

mort58.jpg

 

Do you know Morten Harkett from A-ha used to wear similar things, do you model yourself on him?

 

I'll dangle them over your head, and you can reach up and paw at them like a kitten would. Text me and we'll arrange something xxx

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Hampshire Police have issued a warning to saints fans about using threatening behaviour when that lovely little team from down the road visit St Mary's

 

A Hampshire police spokeperson has said that any saints fans singing threatening songs towards the away fans during the game will be arrested and dealt with acoordingly. "The spokesperson further stated that any one using the words go get your fathers gun and shot the pompey scum will be ejected from the game and charged with inciting threatening behaviour"

 

poor little scared mites.

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Some really sensible posters if you read the comments after the match report linked on that page.....

 

I had a quick butchers on the Brighton website and none of them on there could give a damn about the so-called 'homophobic chanting'. They even admit they sung "You're too ugly to be gay" first which then resulted in our lot responding with the usual.

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Hampshire Police have issued a warning to saints fans about using threatening behaviour when that lovely little team from down the road visit St Mary's

 

A Hampshire police spokeperson has said that any saints fans singing threatening songs towards the away fans during the game will be arrested and dealt with acoordingly. "The spokesperson further stated that any one using the words go get your fathers gun and shot the pompey scum will be ejected from the game and charged with inciting threatening behaviour"

 

poor little scared mites.

 

The worrying thing is that whilst you're joking, the OB are probably drawing up some kind of ridiculous statement along those lines.

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There's a difference between having an opinion about a specific practice, whilst respecting peoples choice to do so, and *hating* the practice and those who practice it.

 

Quite naturally, I would expect most if not all heterosexual men to not like the idea of gay practices, but that doesn't mean I can't talk about it, or that I hate gays.

 

To be honest, this forum is has always struggled with this general differentiation... disagreeing with something does not have to mean you have to criticise/disrespect/launch an abusive volley at the person you disagree with.

 

Homophobia is basically born of ignorance. Didn't really know anyone that was (openly) gay at school or college. I'd picked up a few opinions from alpha-male uncles during my childhood. Needless to say, those opinions weren't what the PC crowd (or even me now) would regard as enlightened.

 

That all pretty much changed when I went to Uni, because there were gay people everywhere. So two choices really. Carry on with the ol' homophobia or grow up and deal with it. Second option worked for me (cue many hilarious posts asking how I "dealt with it").

 

Now, I can understand that people are uncomfortable when gay men openly discuss their sex lives in graphic detail, but then, I'd feel equally uncomfortable if a heterosexual couple gave a blow-by-blow account of what they got up to last night. Either way, it's highly private information that you wouldn't want to hear.

 

It's a serious issue that creates a lot of misery and drives a lot of people to suicide.

 

I've seen a post elsewhere about Saints fans only singing homophobic chants because Brighton and Hove Albion starting singing "You're too ugly to be gay". If that's the case, "I can see you holding hands" is a perfectly valid response. "HIV Positive" and "Faggot"? Well over the top, IMO.

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Homophobia is basically born of ignorance. Didn't really know anyone that was (openly) gay at school or college. I'd picked up a few opinions from alpha-male uncles during my childhood. Needless to say, those opinions weren't what the PC crowd (or even me now) would regard as enlightened.

 

That all pretty much changed when I went to Uni, because there were gay people everywhere. So two choices really. Carry on with the ol' homophobia or grow up and deal with it. Second option worked for me (cue many hilarious posts asking how I "dealt with it").

 

Now, I can understand that people are uncomfortable when gay men openly discuss their sex lives in graphic detail, but then, I'd feel equally uncomfortable if a heterosexual couple gave a blow-by-blow account of what they got up to last night. Either way, it's highly private information that you wouldn't want to hear.

 

It's a serious issue that creates a lot of misery and drives a lot of people to suicide.

 

I've seen a post elsewhere about Saints fans only singing homophobic chants because Brighton and Hove Albion starting singing "You're too ugly to be gay". If that's the case, "I can see you holding hands" is a perfectly valid response. "HIV Positive" and "Faggot"? Well over the top, IMO.

 

What are you up to on Fri night pap? Fancy going out for a drink down the London?

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Dont bother mikey, the lazy c*nt never keeps his appointments :lol:

 

What happened, did you get jilted? I've got a vision of you sitting in a corner in a darkened room, your face lit only by Turkish's Facebook profile on your laptop, a bottle of gin in one hand and your own penis in the other.

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I thought it was 1 in 10, but yes you have a point.

 

Nah 1 in 100 football fans, 5 out of 10 hairdressers. To back this up I can confirm the two kids in my class who were gay didn't like football and one of them is now working at Supercuts. If anyone wants his number send me a pm.

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What are you up to on Fri night pap? Fancy going out for a drink down the London?

 

Unfortunately, I will be sat in at home in Liverpool with the missus and my two daughters.

 

(Who are, of course, a carefully constructed facade built over a long time and at great expense)

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Well it's a metaphysical question isn't it.I'd guess that quite a few people find the idea of gayness revolting but it seems that you're not allowed to say so(or at least in public) now.Freedom of speech yes but not about taboo subjects.

 

Question of opinion? Well take "we hate gays" and substitute the word 'gays' with 'blacks' or 'jews'. Still think its a valid public expression of opinion?

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Question of opinion? Well take "we hate gays" and substitute the word 'gays' with 'blacks' or 'jews'. Still think its a valid public expression of opinion?

 

Well yes, it's just another subject on which one cannot express one's opinion in public,which is the point I made in the first place.

 

It's OK to say "I hate Spinach" no law against that but there are things you just can't say because it's illegal to do so. So successive gouvernments have chosen subjects for you on which you have or have not the freedom of speech.

I have no beef either way, I don't even live in the UK but I don't like being told what to do or what not to say.

Now discrimination is something else as is inciting violence or hatred but to arrest a couple of silly boys at a football match for

chants that weren't premeditated or even offensiv is a bit of a strange one.

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Two Southampton fans have been accused of homophobic chanting at St Mary's Stadium during Saturday's Championship game against Brighton and Hove Albion.

 

A Southampton man, 28, and a man from Romsey, 26, were charged under section 5 of the Public Order Act, relating to homophobic abuse.

 

A man, 38, from London, was charged under section 5 of the Public Order Act, relating to abusive behaviour.

 

All three were bailed to appear before Southampton magistrates on 2 December.

 

They all have bail conditions preventing them from attending any football matches.

 

A 27-year-old man from Hove in East Sussex received a caution after being arrested for throwing a bottle.

 

A Hampshire Constabulary spokeswoman said: "There were some small pockets of fighting amongst the rival fans as they left the ground after the game in Northam Road, but these were quickly dispersed by officers and no further arrests were necessary."

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How exactly are they going to prove this in court.

Firstly they were saying the words the ob thought they were, and secondly they are homophobic.

Could just say the ob misheard, it wasn't faggots they were saying but maggots.

loada rubbish

 

Especially as there were probably no more (percentage wise) gay Brighton supporters present than on the Saint's side.

Nobody inside the ground was really insulted and nobody outside heard it.It's just mindless jibing at football,you call the opposition's supporters things that you think will irk them. Why do people not get arrested for insulting the ref? In a game like Saturday's there'd be about 3 people left in the ground after half time and they'd hold the magistrates court in Watt's Park.

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How exactly are they going to prove this in court.

Firstly they were saying the words the ob thought they were, and secondly they are homophobic.

Could just say the ob misheard, it wasn't faggots they were saying but maggots.

loada rubbish

 

Their best friend the video camera was out in force once again. I watched them locate a person to arrest, zoom the camera in on them for a good 5 minutes, and then walk in and arrest him for nothing more than singing.

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