Our Biggest Threat

[doddisalegend]

What these pathetic little firms fail to realise is unlike their local rivals like leeds & Sheffielf United is that we are proffesional thugs, trained to destory. We are a bit like the soilders in the 300. My job just funds my weekend warrioring.

 

ermm the thought of saints yoof strolling around in giant nappies screaming "This is Dooooonnnnnncasterrrrr!!!" is a disturbing one.......

[doddisalegend]

There's quite a considered discussion on the West Ham board on this subject - http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136511&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=735d6bab5bf348bae6479ab9d02aa4ec

 

Many there seem to think that we will falter once we get a few injuries...

 

yeah was reading that thread this morning this one stood out to me for some reason.

 

 

Let me explain as I'd hate to be portrayed as an off the hip emotional type.

 

I think the Saints are currently in good shape. They have a good manager who is building a team of players with a point to prove mixed with some good young talent. You cannot deny they have that winning "habit".

 

There run-in around Xmas is also not that bad.

 

I always look for a weakness in a team, and for me they have two - Mental strength and the defence. The defence is slow and should be getting exposed. It isn't because they dictate the play from the middle of the park.

 

The Championship also isn't League 1, and Southampton fans themselves have seen them capitulate before don't forget after good starts and miss out on promotion as a result. So let's not get carried away here, they are not Manchester United. They are of course looking to emulate the flare football pioneered by Blackpool in the Championship a couple of season ago and then demonstrated successfully by QPR & Swansea to a lesser extent last season.....but in what is a much stronger division this season that really still hasn't begun to shape up yet.

 

I'd also suggest that a number of the teams they will face will be improving, where as they are already gelled and going full pelt and have plateaued. There is money in the bank there, and some would argue that they deserve some luck after hard times endured, but the option of buying in "stars" isn't the Southampton way. You have to earn your place to play, and they have strong principals and ethics at the club (another legacy of Lowe which they'd probably loathe to be grateful for) so I don't see anybody wanting to rush to join them as there's no guarantee's and if they did drop some big wedge, I believe that would do more harm than good and breach the principles and rock the boat in the dressing room.

 

They have a great work ethic, a strong foundation and a lot of them have played together for a while. But everybody hits the wall in the Championship at some point. What makes you think, apart from that they were pretty much a championship team playing in League 1 and breezed it, that they are an exception?

 

How will they react to that and do they have enough character and experience to "play" there way out of that?

 

There is no evidence of them ever having to bounce back after losing three on the spin for example, and a couple of costly individual errors, a handful of injuries at once, or having some terrible decisions given against them by officials and slipping off the mantle is a reality that many others, us included, have already had to face in this League.

 

I've always found you learn so much more about a team when all guns are not firing, when things aren't going well, and when the pressure is on.....

 

So back to that mental strength point. Nobody can deny that the pressure at the close of a championship season is felt right through a club, and I'm sure you'd agree its a darn sight more than when you hit the home straight in the Championship than is present on a League 1 run in.

 

As Hammers I think we don't recognise that the general feeling on that part of the South Coast is that they should never have been out of the Championship and that the ten point deduction all but finished them when they started life in League1. They had a huge point to prove last season, and were going back where they and their fans felt they belonged. In this league, and with no preconceptions of winning it and knocking on the doors of the Prem amongst them.

 

A lot of the very talented kids that play for them will be within touching distance of that chance to play in the Premiership for the first time if this run continues, and of course they somehow miraculously avoid any of the previously mentioned obstacles. That's where the mind begins to play games with a player, as well as with the other people involved at the club, and its at that stage of what will be the toughest season of the majority of there careers ( a few have past Premiership relegations on there CV's - Kelvin Davis at Sunderland, Richardson went down with Leeds) I question will everybody still want the ball at Southampton, where everybody wants to shine at the moment? Once the heat is turned up for that run in, I'm yet to be convinced that they have the backbone, and steel mentally to meet those challenges and I see no evidence to the contrary.

 

I think that's where we will differentiate from the other teams in this league, and Big Sam & Nolan will be demonstrate some real value. Cardiff have a slice of that mental strength to, as do Leeds. A lot of the players we have brought in are classed as hired guns or ageing players looking for a pay-day......but mentally, they have what it takes to dig in and get us back up into a League we've been planning to return to since before we were relegated.

 

In February, Southampton have us, Leeds & Derby, and that's where I think they will hit the wall.

 

Of course only time will tell, but the price of a pint says they won't make i

 

A lot of those themes seem to be echoed on other teams forums as well. It's interesting that so many oppsition fans think we're going to just suddenly cave in while their own teams are just going to go from strength to strength and power past us.

[Smirking_Saint]

There's quite a considered discussion on the West Ham board on this subject - http://www.kumb.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=136511&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=735d6bab5bf348bae6479ab9d02aa4ec

 

Many there seem to think that we will falter once we get a few injuries...

 

That tross is an arrogant fella !!

 

I would say our strength in depth is definately a strong point of ours, but I agree that if we suffer a few losses at home we will see Adkins metal in respect to keeping us moving forward. WHU are beginning to go through a toughish patch, playing some crappy football but are rumbling on, we need to hope they start dropping points.

[farawaysaint]

yeah was reading that thread this morning this one stood out to me for some reason.

 

 

Let me explain as I'd hate to be portrayed as an off the hip emotional type.

 

I think the Saints are currently in good shape. They have a good manager who is building a team of players with a point to prove mixed with some good young talent. You cannot deny they have that winning "habit".

 

There run-in around Xmas is also not that bad.

 

I always look for a weakness in a team, and for me they have two - Mental strength and the defence. The defence is slow and should be getting exposed. It isn't because they dictate the play from the middle of the park.

 

The Championship also isn't League 1, and Southampton fans themselves have seen them capitulate before don't forget after good starts and miss out on promotion as a result. So let's not get carried away here, they are not Manchester United. They are of course looking to emulate the flare football pioneered by Blackpool in the Championship a couple of season ago and then demonstrated successfully by QPR & Swansea to a lesser extent last season.....but in what is a much stronger division this season that really still hasn't begun to shape up yet.

 

I'd also suggest that a number of the teams they will face will be improving, where as they are already gelled and going full pelt and have plateaued. There is money in the bank there, and some would argue that they deserve some luck after hard times endured, but the option of buying in "stars" isn't the Southampton way. You have to earn your place to play, and they have strong principals and ethics at the club (another legacy of Lowe which they'd probably loathe to be grateful for) so I don't see anybody wanting to rush to join them as there's no guarantee's and if they did drop some big wedge, I believe that would do more harm than good and breach the principles and rock the boat in the dressing room.

 

They have a great work ethic, a strong foundation and a lot of them have played together for a while. But everybody hits the wall in the Championship at some point. What makes you think, apart from that they were pretty much a championship team playing in League 1 and breezed it, that they are an exception?

 

How will they react to that and do they have enough character and experience to "play" there way out of that?

 

There is no evidence of them ever having to bounce back after losing three on the spin for example, and a couple of costly individual errors, a handful of injuries at once, or having some terrible decisions given against them by officials and slipping off the mantle is a reality that many others, us included, have already had to face in this League.

 

I've always found you learn so much more about a team when all guns are not firing, when things aren't going well, and when the pressure is on.....

 

So back to that mental strength point. Nobody can deny that the pressure at the close of a championship season is felt right through a club, and I'm sure you'd agree its a darn sight more than when you hit the home straight in the Championship than is present on a League 1 run in.

 

As Hammers I think we don't recognise that the general feeling on that part of the South Coast is that they should never have been out of the Championship and that the ten point deduction all but finished them when they started life in League1. They had a huge point to prove last season, and were going back where they and their fans felt they belonged. In this league, and with no preconceptions of winning it and knocking on the doors of the Prem amongst them.

 

A lot of the very talented kids that play for them will be within touching distance of that chance to play in the Premiership for the first time if this run continues, and of course they somehow miraculously avoid any of the previously mentioned obstacles. That's where the mind begins to play games with a player, as well as with the other people involved at the club, and its at that stage of what will be the toughest season of the majority of there careers ( a few have past Premiership relegations on there CV's - Kelvin Davis at Sunderland, Richardson went down with Leeds) I question will everybody still want the ball at Southampton, where everybody wants to shine at the moment? Once the heat is turned up for that run in, I'm yet to be convinced that they have the backbone, and steel mentally to meet those challenges and I see no evidence to the contrary.

 

I think that's where we will differentiate from the other teams in this league, and Big Sam & Nolan will be demonstrate some real value. Cardiff have a slice of that mental strength to, as do Leeds. A lot of the players we have brought in are classed as hired guns or ageing players looking for a pay-day......but mentally, they have what it takes to dig in and get us back up into a League we've been planning to return to since before we were relegated.

 

In February, Southampton have us, Leeds & Derby, and that's where I think they will hit the wall.

 

Of course only time will tell, but the price of a pint says they won't make i

 

A lot of those themes seem to be echoed on other teams forums as well. It's interesting that so many oppsition fans think we're going to just suddenly cave in while their own teams are just going to go from strength to strength and power past us.

 

Hammers fans are among the worst to be fair along with Leeds and Leicester, they all seem to think we're in a false position and a collapse is only moments away citing Brighton as the example. West Ham fans also feel they have a divine right to win the league which is annoying to say the least

[farawaysaint]

Hammers fans are among the worst to be fair along with Leeds and Leicester, they all seem to think we're in a false position and a collapse is only moments away citing Brighton as the example. West Ham fans also feel they have a divine right to win the league which is annoying to say the least

 

Also they seem to be stretching the Kenyan distance racer metaphor to say the least.

[Window Cleaner]

yeah was reading that thread this morning this one stood out to me for some reason.

 

 

Let me explain as I'd hate to be portrayed as an off the hip emotional type.

 

I think the Saints are currently in good shape. They have a good manager who is building a team of players with a point to prove mixed with some good young talent. You cannot deny they have that winning "habit".

 

e

 

How will they react to that and do they have enough character and experience to "play" there way out of that?

 

There is no evidence of them ever having to bounce back after losing three on the spin for example, and a couple of costly individual errors, a handful of injuries at once, or having some terrible decisions given against them by officials and slipping off the mantle is a reality that many others, us included, have already had to face in this League.

 

I've always found you learn so much more about a team when all guns are not firing, when things aren't going well, and when the pressure is on.....

 

 

 

I think that's where we will differentiate from the other teams in this league, and Big Sam & Nolan will be demonstrate some real value. Cardiff have a slice of that mental strength to, as do Leeds. A lot of the players we have brought in are classed as hired guns or ageing players looking for a pay-day......but mentally, they have what it takes to dig in and get us back up into a League we've been planning to return to since before we were relegated.

 

In February, Southampton have us, Leeds & Derby, and that's where I think they will hit the wall.

 

Of course only time will tell, but the price of a pint says they won't make i

 

A lot of those themes seem to be echoed on other teams forums as well. It's interesting that so many oppsition fans think we're going to just suddenly cave in while their own teams are just going to go from strength to strength and power past us.

 

 

Completely deluded(not surprising for a West Ham fan): Morgan and Cork are both already far better players at 22 and improving than Nolan will ever be.If they're counting on Nolan to get them back to the PL they're in for a long wait.

Edited 21 November, 2011 by Window Cleaner

[sambosa75]

For a club with similar recent history to ourselves (bar relegation to League 1 and administration) West Ham really do seem to rate themselves don't they? They are the next Pompey in spending money they don't have on ageing, over-rated players in an all-or-nothing attempt at promotion, serving up an absolutely gash brand of football. I really hope it blows up in their face and they fail to get promoted. I could easily see it all go t!ts up for them.

[dellboypete]

Our biggest threat could be our away form: 3-3-2

 

Certainly not the worst but certainly could be better and we're played teams spread throughout the table so no bias there.

 

 

We can address that the next 3 away games, Bristol City & Doncaster, both in the bottom two followed by Pompey who although have one 5 at home have only beaten one team in the top half of the table. It wont be easy but we have a great opporutnity for 3 wins, although Pompey will be very tough. If we can keep up our home form as well by NYD there might be a huge gap between us and the chasing pack.

 

My views too - really think our away form has bee inconsistent - so if we started dropping points at home we need to pick them up away from home to compensate.

 

Also haveto agree with Turkish about the next 3 away games - I'd settle for 7 out of 9 points

 

Of course I also believe that the other teams in the race are going to drop needless points here and there as well - so it will be close all the way to the end.

[Window Cleaner]

My views too - really think our away form has bee inconsistent - so if we started dropping points at home we need to pick them up away from home to compensate.

 

Also haveto agree with Turkish about the next 3 away games - I'd settle for 7 out of 9 points

 

Of course I also believe that the other teams in the race are going to drop needless points here and there as well - so it will be close all the way to the end.

 

3-3-2 away form over the rest of the season (15 away games) would give us another 22 away points,leaving us needing to get about 24 from our remaining 14 home games.Saints now need a bit more than 8 points from every 4 home games because of the fantastic start we've had.

[Under Weststand]

Complacency is our biggest enemy at the moment, but NA is doing a good job so far in managing it.

As for West Ham and the other club forums, they have no concept of the injuries we've already had (and managed superbly so far) & the size & quality of our squad.As for the questions about our ability to stand the pressure in the run in? Well yet again its ill informed chat, we well and truly answered that question last year! Under the severest pressure from Huddersfield in that last 2.5 months of the season we came through to get the job done. I cannot possibly see us having that sort of pressure again this season, but if it happens this group of players have been there & know what it takes to get through it & do the business.

All a bit early yet for that, lets just take it week by week & enjoy the ride, & whatever will be will be.

[Micky]

For a club with similar recent history to ourselves (bar relegation to League 1 and administration) West Ham really do seem to rate themselves don't they? They are the next Pompey in spending money they don't have on ageing, over-rated players in an all-or-nothing attempt at promotion, serving up an absolutely gash brand of football. I really hope it blows up in their face and they fail to get promoted. I could easily see it all go t!ts up for them.

 

I think there is immense pressure to go up this season for WHU. They are due to move to the Olympic Stadium and they also have high earners - another season (or even longer) in the Championship, could see them in dire straights as well.

[carljack]

Betfair prices it, 11/8 Saints 9/4 WHU 16/1 bar the two.The betting pros see it as a two horse title race.

 

They also bet 1/2 1/2 us and WHU to be promoted with Leic third best at 5/2 with Boro 3/1.From a pure Value angle the 9/4 WHU to pip us to the title is worth a little punt especially if you are already on Saints at the 19/1 that was readily available in August.

 

SAINT TILL I DIE!

[Mr saint]

Our biggest threat could be our away formation: 3-3-2

 

Certainly not the worst but certainly could be better and we're played teams spread throughout the table so no bias there.

 

I agree, this is quite clearly a bad formation to play if you want to win games of football.

[sambosa75]

Complacency is our biggest enemy at the moment, but NA is doing a good job so far in managing it.

As for West Ham and the other club forums, they have no concept of the injuries we've already had (and managed superbly so far) & the size & quality of our squad.As for the questions about our ability to stand the pressure in the run in? Well yet again its ill informed chat, we well and truly answered that question last year! Under the severest pressure from Huddersfield in that last 2.5 months of the season we came through to get the job done. I cannot possibly see us having that sort of pressure again this season, but if it happens this group of players have been there & know what it takes to get through it & do the business.

All a bit early yet for that, lets just take it week by week & enjoy the ride, & whatever will be will be.

 

Absolutely key point. They presume because we've only just been promoted that our squad is paper thin. It isn't. And one suspects that beyond January, the strength in depth is only likely to improve as well.

[Verbal]

If you take goal difference as a predictor of form, then outside the top two it's Cardiff.

[pedg]

It's strange how fan's of other clubs say "Everyone hits a wall at some point in the season" whilst failing to acknowledge that if it is inevitable then the same will happen to them.

[Window Cleaner]

It's strange how fan's of other clubs say "Everyone hits a wall at some point in the season" whilst failing to acknowledge that if it is inevitable then the same will happen to them.

I presume that they feel that their "wall" is already behind them. Looking at some of the W-D-L counts it can only be that way.

The thing is that this league is pretty homogenous and that Saints are a cut above it,mainly because we have a side that didn't cost trillions and that every player in it knows how to play football,and more important do exactly what the manager asks him to do.Football is a simple game and if players can't or won't do as they're asked all the money in the universe won't help them. I looked at Chelsea-Liverpool yesterday and you'd have to admit that for 200 million or whatever it is Chelsea are pretty average and Liverpool for a bit less only had Suarez to show for it.

Edited 21 November, 2011 by Window Cleaner

[pedg]

I presume that they feel that their "wall" is already behind them. Looking at some of the W-D-L counts it can only be that way.

 

Possibly but I take the view that hitting the wall means a run of bad results and for some teams their losses have been more irregular. Also it should be said that there is no rule that says you have one 'wall' a season. From this point to the end of the season, ignoring all the games that have been played so far, all the teams near the top are equally likely to hit a bad patch, even if one or more of them have already had one.

[Window Cleaner]

Possibly but I take the view that hitting the wall means a run of bad results and for some teams their losses have been more irregular. Also it should be said that there is no rule that says you have one 'wall' a season. From this point to the end of the season, ignoring all the games that have been played so far, all the teams near the top are equally likely to hit a bad patch, even if one or more of them have already had one.

 

I presume this is the same as the marathon "wall" which of course doesn't exist in reality,it's just the point where your

biochemistry lets you down. You can train and condition yourself for it not to occur.Where do most teams hit "the wall" injuries,suspension,loss of form in individuals I'd guess.So if you have sufficient players to get past that then the wall might just not happen.Manchester Utd don't hit walls neither do Chelsea (well until this season and that's because they've f*cked about with the team too much due to Abramovitch just not being able to keep his chequebook in his pocket).Also older players tend to lose there legs at some stage or other but apart from Kelvin we don't have any 30+ first team players do we? Most of our lads have pretty decent stats on injuries as well and lastly but foremost we have the best midfield group in the division and probably outside of the top6 in the premier league.

[Dalek2003]

Have to say Hammers fans are amongst the most deluded and arrogant I have ever come across. I was in the east end a couple of years ago listening to this WHU **** giving it big on what they were going to do to the Arse and Chelski. Another thing, they are always 'unlucky' when things go wrong.

 

Have to say, that after PUMPEY they are my least liked team !

[Stepgar]

complacency

 

Yep! We can be our own worst enemy.

[Turkish]

If you take goal difference as a predictor of form, then outside the top two it's Cardiff.

 

What are you doing on here? You feeling alright? Lost your way to the lounge?

[Barry the Badger]

Leicester are 14 points below us. We would have to have a pretty bad rest of the season and them to have a great rest of the season for them to finish above us.

 

It's easy to get carried away, we feel invincible right now and I do believe we will do it, I have to. BUT there are plenty of examples to show why we shouldn't get too carried away.

 

Look here for example, look at the lead at the top. Look at the gap between Watford and Stoke.

 

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2007-2008/table/2007-11-26

 

It does happen and we cannot be complacent at all. I didn't even have to look very far to find a very applicable example.

 

http://www.statto.com/football/stats/england/league-championship/2007-2008/table

Edited 21 November, 2011 by Barry the Badger

[Avenue Saint]

God forbid that lambert or Lallana get injured.

[for_heaven's_Saint]

It's amazing how other fans can say that our squad is so thin when we rotate our Centre Midfield every game. I doubt there are many if any other teams who can do that without disrupting the quality of the team.

[Window Cleaner]

God forbid that lambert or Lallana get injured.

 

From what I saw of Lallana on Saturday we could well do without him on that form.But then I guess he's still sub par from the last injury.

[locksheathsaint101]

From what I saw of Lallana on Saturday we could well do without him on that form.But then I guess he's still sub par from the last injury.

 

I thought lallana had a good game Saturday some of his touches were superb. We would certainly miss him if he went out injured now.

[corsacar saint]

If we get in a couple of top quality players in january,we will be there or there abouts. Asside from West Ham who are not playing well and are ominously 2nd, I think the biggest threat are Cardiff.

[Red and White Russ]

What these pathetic little firms fail to realise is unlike their local rivals like leeds & Sheffielf United is that we are proffesional thugs, trained to destory. We are a bit like the soilders in the 300. My job just funds my weekend warrioring.

 

Actually, let's be honest, you are nothing like the professionally trained Spartan warriors, that defeated the Persians at Thermopylae. More like a beer infused rabble that like to chest beat and pontificate on a wet weekend in England. Donny are hardly Xerxes' Immortals either. The bravest thing they will do is take their t-shirts off in a stiff Yorkshire breeze to show off their pasty white beer bellies. Let's not make silly comparisons now, there's a good chap.

[Window Cleaner]

Actually, let's be honest, you are nothing like the professionally trained Spartan warriors, that defeated the Persians at Thermopylae. More like a beer infused rabble that like to chest beat and pontificate on a wet weekend in England. Donny are hardly Xerxes' Immortals either. The bravest thing they will do is take their t-shirts off in a stiff Yorkshire breeze to show off their pasty white beer bellies. Let's not make silly comparisons now, there's a good chap.

 

 

Ziiiiip

[Dellman]

Complacency could be the problem according to some posts, well I don't see NA or NC falling for that. We've got two proper leaders for the first time in years

[Crab Lungs]

Complacency could be the problem according to some posts, well I don't see NA or NC falling for that. We've got two proper leaders for the first time in years

 

That may be right, but what about the moss on the stadium exterior? Makes us look tacky and unprofessional.

[Ashley Grute]

Cardiff- only team to outplay us this season

[DanW]

Cardiff- only team to outplay us this season

According to Steve de Ridder, that's not true. He said that we outplayed Cardiff and lost, but Reading outplayed us and yet we still got a point.

 

It's in the post-Reading match interview on Player.

[Ashley Grute]

Actually I would agree with that- Reading were better on the day- I forgot about that one!

[saint_stevo]

Birmingham

[stinhk]

As mentioned in the post quoting the WHU fan, I too have wondered if we are already currently playing at or near our best. We can argue we have room for improvement in our away form. However I wouldn't expect us to improve our points per game ratio from here on in. Clearly there are teams in this division we would expect to see an improvement from. If we can keep it up as we are obviously we would be ok but it is rare for a team to storm through any division. Plenty of brown trousers moment to come I'm sure.

[markyboy]

Working in London, plenty of Hammers here. One of them this morning asked when the bubble was going to burst. Muppet.

[SNSUN]

"When will Southampton go through a bad spell" is a recurring question around my workplace too.

 

We are like Sebastian Vettel, once we're in pole, we win the race.

[eelpie]

I'm not contemplating which team would be our biggest threat. Anyone could be over the length of the season.

 

IMHO we ourselves could be our biggest threat if we start worrying about others. Or if we become too complacent.

[ChippySaint]

Another point is we also have to play 7 of the current second to tenth placed teams away from home in the second half of the season.

[bender]

From Feb out away games get tricky. However I believe by then we will be well clear of the pack.

[Dalek2003]

Working in London, plenty of Hammers here. One of them this morning asked when the bubble was going to burst. Muppet.

 

 

Very typical of those arrogant ******s, you can tell that we are getting to them. Hope they fail to go up and go bankrupt. Bunch of tossers, the lot of them !

[Mr X]

Dare I say it Pompey is our biggest threat if ever theres a game where the wheels are gonna come off i fear its this it would be just like saints

[HK_Phoey]

Another point is we also have to play 7 of the current second to tenth placed teams away from home in the second half of the season.

 

but we also have to play five of them at home as well between now and the end of the season. Still think it comes down to focusing on the next game, nothing more. Top ten will change. Some teams will break in some teams will fall away, some teams will come on a late charge apart from us and the bottom three, most teams can move up or down by three or four places on a single win or defeat. Focus on Saturday, win that and then focus on the next one simple as that. Not going to worry about anyone else. If we average one win in every two games between now and the end of the season we are up. Nigel currently has a 70% win ratio.

[Whitey Grandad]

Working in London, plenty of Hammers here. One of them this morning asked when the bubble was going to burst. Muppet.

Well they can go and blow somebody else's bubble 'cause they're not going to blow ours.

[Toadhall Saint]

but we also have to play five of them at home as well between now and the end of the season. Still think it comes down to focusing on the next game, nothing more. Top ten will change. Some teams will break in some teams will fall away, some teams will come on a late charge apart from us and the bottom three, most teams can move up or down by three or four places on a single win or defeat. Focus on Saturday, win that and then focus on the next one simple as that. Not going to worry about anyone else. If we average one win in every two games between now and the end of the season we are up. Nigel currently has a 70% win ratio.

 

This