OVER THE HILL Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 Story in the Echo about Dave Jones, he claims Saints would never have been relegated if he had stayed as manager. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/9370677.Saints_should_still_be_in_the_Premier_League___Jones/ I think over the years we would have survived and been in the Premiership. "There was a plan in place, and we were halfway through it.” he says. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 Probably not far wrong. Hoddle and Strachan never bought better than Jones did. Could well have been our Tony Pulis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redondo Saint Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 He was getting very close to his sell by date when he 'left' in my opinion. Nice enough bloke but seemed to make subs too late and appeared lacking in tactical awareness. MLT and Pahars saved us from relegation when he was in charge. He did sign Marsden but it was WGS that made him play well. Above all else he did not shout and wave his arms around during a game - which merits the sack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintmatt Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 Wasn't his record something like 3 wins from 17 when he was put on gardening leave? Probably wouldn't have lasted much longer in the job regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 Wasn't his record something like 3 wins from 17 when he was put on gardening leave? Probably wouldn't have lasted much longer in the job regardless. Yes but I think to understand his ability you need to look at his form up until the time the charges came out. Still can't beleive the CPS were taken in by that low life. Back to the OP, yes, I think it was a good appointment and yes he probably would have kept us in the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faz Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 If you'd been a Villa for the cup game, you'd understand why he had to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Malc Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 He was absolutely carp. He wasted the Kevin Davies £7m on players like Ripley and was likely to be sacked just before his gardening leave anyway. I really can't understand this affection for him. He took us backwards imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpsaint Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 If you'd been a Villa for the cup game, you'd understand why he had to go. Likewise if you'd been to that Newcastle away game, I've had some long depressing journeys home from away games but stone me that's up there with the worst. Jones was on borrowed time when he went on 'gardening leave' and things worked out for the best with Hoddle and Strachan anyway. It's the post Strachan decisions that cost us our Prem status IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 We would have gone down the season he was sacked. He wasn't the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 I'm sure Dave is right. If only he'd been able to stay on at Southampton, Saints would have recruited far better players, played far better football and would have risen to the top echelons of the Premier league. The evidence is clear from his incredible success with Wolves and Cardiff before each club was stupid enough to sack him, just because he couldn't get them out of the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatlesaint Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 We would have gone down the season he was sacked. He wasn't the best. Absolutely. We were bloody lucky the season before, we wouldn't have been that lucky again. Jones had one good season and that was his first. It was downhill after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Fry Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 I'm sure Dave is right. If only he'd been able to stay on at Southampton, Saints would have recruited far better players, played far better football and would have risen to the top echelons of the Premier league. The evidence is clear from his incredible success with Wolves and Cardiff before each club was stupid enough to sack him, just because he couldn't get them out of the Championship. Well, he did get Wolves out of the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 17 November, 2011 Share Posted 17 November, 2011 IMO Lowe would have sacked him earlier, if the allegations hadn't have broken when they did and in a strange way they helped keep him in the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulwantsapint Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 The court case ruined Dave jones saints career there is no way to know how much pressure it put him under As results were he had to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Nelson Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 I remember a period of very dour football. I also remember us going down throw perpetual mismanagement by the chairman and the board, more managerial changes than I care to remember (although I can) and no money to change what had become an uncompetitive squad. If anybody thinks that the only missing ingredience was Dave Jones......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 He was absolutely carp. He wasted the Kevin Davies £7m on players like Ripley and was likely to be sacked just before his gardening leave anyway. I really can't understand this affection for him. He took us backwards imo. Ah yes, Ripley. The latter day Puncheon. A great player who never (rarely) performed largely because we never made him feel at all welcome at saints. I seem to remember a story about his wife going up to the David Lloyd Centre at the Rose Bowl and being badly treated simply because she was his wife. but I digress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rooney Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 We would have gone down anyway if he had not been put on gardening leave. He is such a dour person and frankly, I just cannot see that he has any motivational skills, from all the TV appearances I have seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ringwood Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 LEE TODD, think that says it all ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Malc Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 Signing Beattie, Pahars, Richards and Marsden makes him fairly awesome though. Beattie was a make-weight in the Davies transfer. Hardly a scouting coup. Plus Mark Hughes, David Howells, that little Lee bloke (I've forgotten his name) at left back etc. :-( Awesome is not the word I'd use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainchris Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 He was absolutely carp. He wasted the Kevin Davies £7m on players like Ripley and was likely to be sacked just before his gardening leave anyway. I really can't understand this affection for him. He took us backwards imo. This is correct. Dave Jones was not ever quite up to the job and he was 'sacked' in effect for that. Just not performing well enough... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Malc Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 A great player who never (rarely) performed largely because we never made him feel at all welcome at saints. Bless him. Ripley was sh ! te imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
washsaint Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 I remember dave Jones' last few games well - anyone remember the Newcastle game where he played Kevin Gibbens at RB? He had lost the plot at the end and we were on a slippery slope downhill. IT worked out for all concerned in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicestersaint Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 Treated very badly by Lowe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 Treated very badly by Lowe. No he wasn't - Lowe did the only thing he could do in the circumstances and, as others are saying, his record at that point would have justified the sack and not merely gardening leave. However, to have sacked him would have implied that we believed the rumours. It was the justice system and the police who treated him badly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Malc Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 No he wasn't - Lowe did the only thing he could do in the circumstances and, as others are saying, his record at that point would have justified the sack and not merely gardening leave. However, to have sacked him would have implied that we believed the rumours. It was the justice system and the police who treated him badly. Extremely well put. My feelings towards Lowe are......... well, unprintable but he was spot on with this. IMO Jones was the thickness of a cigerette paper better than Branfoot and Burley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blandford saint Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 He signed some good players, but Hoddle got the best out of them - with exactly the same players we became much better defensively and more organised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersfield Saint Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 Absolutely. We were bloody lucky the season before, we wouldn't have been that lucky again. Jones had one good season and that was his first. It was downhill after that. This, one good season plus one and a half sh*te ones; I honestly think we would have been relegated if he'd stayed 'til the end of the season. He signed some good players, but Hoddle got the best out of them - with exactly the same players we became much better defensively and more organised. TBF, this. He bought some great players but never got the best out of them; Hoddle did but his record in the transfer market was shocking! Any comments, Dalek? If you'd been a Villa for the cup game, you'd understand why he had to go. And finally this, absolutely! Was working in London at the time, drove up especially, then all the way back to Petersfield afterwards. Only time I have ever left a match early in my life!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 (edited) Story in the Echo about Dave Jones, he claims Saints would never have been relegated if he had stayed as manager. http://www.dailyecho.co.uk/sport/9370677.Saints_should_still_be_in_the_Premier_League___Jones/ I think over the years we would have survived and been in the Premiership. "There was a plan in place, and we were halfway through it.” he says. Mmmm...sounds a bit tacky to me , don't get me wrong, I thought that Dave Jones was a straight up and down fella' and I liked his manner but his record with us was one of the poorest since the end of the Chris Nicholl era.(CN was sacked unfairly IMHO). As we've been talking records recently, surely DJ's two and a half seasons must be amongst the worst-ever in our history. 97-98 ..we had only 1 win from the first 9 games and it took us till october to pull clear of the drop zone, and only a goal surge by MLT and Östenstad in the last 10 games in the spring of 98 gave us a respectable 12th. 98-99 was an even worse start. no wins and only 2 draws from the first 9 and we didn't get off the bottom till December, and we had to win the last 3 games to survive in the Prem. The Great Escape season. 1999-2000 started a little better but we slid down the table to 17th in mid-january when Hoddle appeared on the scene to replace DJ. His performance upto that time alone was enough to give him the axe (as several other Prem. managers had before him). The fact he had that disgraceful court case hanging over him for so long before he was acquitted is beyond words, and goodness knows what it must have been like for him and family ..and the staff at SFC who surely didn't know what to believe. I'm sure many of us really did feel sorry for him, but trying to manage a Premier League side at the wrong end of the table needs a lot of energy and enthusiasm to pull clear and I'm sure all the circumstances were against him. As it was... Hoddle's short stay was enough to pull us clear to a more respecatbale 15th. One can criticise a lot that Rupert Lowe did, but I think it was the right thing to do at the time. DJ wasn't sacked out of order, (which we could have done based on a lack of results), but continued to get salary until after matters were resolved the following year. Hoddle's departure may have led to further complications, but I cannot see that keeping DJ would have been a better solution. It must be hard for DJ to have many " fond memories " of SFC, but the thought that he might have been able to keep us in the Premiership.. past 2005..! must be one thought that few others would share. Sorry Dave! However, it's hard for anyone to say that ..had it not been for the court case it might have been different ...? Unfortunately his record scarcely qualifies him as a long term bet for management. Edited 18 November, 2011 by david in sweden Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saint1977 Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 No he wasn't - Lowe did the only thing he could do in the circumstances and, as others are saying, his record at that point would have justified the sack and not merely gardening leave. However, to have sacked him would have implied that we believed the rumours. It was the justice system and the police who treated him badly. I'd have to agree on this point, I'm not sure what else Lowe could do in the circumstances, particularly as we were committed to building SMS then and still had 18 months to go at the Dell. I was also at the FA Cup game at Villa and we were pathetic and the less said about the Newcastle debacle the better. Hoddle got us better organised. Dave Jones generally bought well and is a good Championship level manager so he would be best focusing on the next decent opening at this level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint 76er Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 IMO Lowe would have sacked him earlier, if the allegations hadn't have broken when they did and in a strange way they helped keep him in the job. I'm quite sure this is the correct version of events. We were sh*te that season and had never been much good under Dave Jones. It seemed fairly clear he had lost the players and relegation loomed even in Nov/Dec. He was odds on to be sacked, for football reasons, when the court case turned up and you could almost read Lowe's mind after that. How could he sack him in the circumstances when it would look as if he were casting an unwanted problem aside and who would believe it was for football reasons at that juncture? So Lowe appeared to reluctantly back him and muttered a few lukewarm public statements of support. The playing side did not improve and obviously Lowe took the opportunity to sound out Hoddle, who clearly had no qualms about taking over in such circumstances. But how to parachute him in without making it look as if he was booting Jones out in case he really was guilty? Rupert's leadership skills seemed to desert him at that time and in the end he could only come up with some hamfisted 'gardening leave' scenario which he claimed was for Dave Jones own good! It's fair to say Dave didn't agree with him and, if my memory hasn't failed me, I seem to recall Rupert delivering the bad news on Dave Jones doorstep and Dave hanging one on him for his trouble (or was that Dave's wife?). In any event I seem to recall Rupert sporting a black eye for a while! Regardless of the above, it was a pretty awful situation all round for Dave Jones who always seemed a really decent guy and didn't deserve the crazy situation he was thrust into. However, he was not the best football coach in the world imo and I think Dave's version of our prospects under his continued management are a little fanciful to say the least. It's all water under the bridge now, of course, but thank goodness things eventually turned out as they now are for us. There is no way on God's earth we would be where we are today under Lowe and Jones had they actually continued together. Sorry Dave, but that's the truth .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalek2003 Posted 18 November, 2011 Share Posted 18 November, 2011 Likewise if you'd been to that Newcastle away game, I've had some long depressing journeys home from away games but stone me that's up there with the worst. Jones was on borrowed time when he went on 'gardening leave' and things worked out for the best with Hoddle and Strachan anyway. It's the post Strachan decisions that cost us our Prem status IMO. Agree with the sentments of this post. Hoddle was a genius and had we re-appointed him 2004 we would have stayed in the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilippineSaint Posted 19 November, 2011 Share Posted 19 November, 2011 Agree with the sentments of this post. Hoddle was a genius and had we re-appointed him 2004 we would have stayed in the Prem. cock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aintforever Posted 19 November, 2011 Share Posted 19 November, 2011 We were having a poor season when he was sacked but I think we had quite a few injuries, apart from that year his record was decent I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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