When The Police Filmed The Northam + Other Games

[Gemmel]

I can't remember the home game, but there was quite a reaction on here when the old bill videoed the Northam and at an away game last season that I went to, it was way over the top and actually really wound me up.

 

 

Well I've stolen this from the blue few, one of who made a formal compliant and thought some might be interested in the statement from Hampshire police.

 

 

Now based on what the statement says, am I wrong in thinking that (Whatever that game was) when they were filming the whole Northam they were in breach of their own rules / law ?

 

 

Statement from Hampshire police

 

"The use of video / photography has been used for many years now at Football and indeed across a whole range of Public Order / Public safety events ie protests etc. The use of the camera has been a significantly successful tool in reducing the levels of football related disorder by deterring disorder or capturing evidence of disorder for any post event investigation. It has also been used to great effect in building up intelligence profiles about that small minority who are intent on generating or taking part in football related violence.

 

That said, the use of video / stills must have a legitimate need and should not be used in such a way that is unnecessary, disproportionate or affects the enjoyment of the vast majority of peaceful fans who want to watch the football.

 

In Hampshire, we have a clear deployment strategy that sets out when and how video / stills will be used. Essentially this is;

 

 

 

1) To deter disorder by targeted overt filming IE where individual’s or groups’ behaviour is such as to cause concern that this might generate disorder or compromise safety of other fans. The presence of an overt video is usually sufficient to stop even those affected by drink or intent on causing issues.

 

 

 

2) To capture evidence of disorder or behaviour that is beyond the norms of acceptability (for post event or for Sect 14 B orders)

 

 

 

3) To gather intelligence : again this must be targeted at individuals or groups who are legitimately assessed as providing a risk to disorder based on their behaviour / recent history etc

 

 

 

There should be no overt blanket filming as it doesn't deliver anything of value. There is always full CCTV coverage in the stadium which can be used (though the quality varies greatly).

 

 

 

Whilst we continue to use overt Video at Football it will only be done to achieve any of these 3 outcomes. It is right that we should periodically remind our operators of these restrictions although they are simple common sense. I hope that this may re-assure some of your supporters that it is about a targeted deterrent or evidence / intelligence gathering.

[jawillwill]

If you're not doing anything wrong, who cares?

[rocknrollman no2]

Makes me laugh.The police seem to move the goalposts when it comes to their versions of human rights.

In my view,the police were wrong to film the Northam,especially when there was nothing happening at the time.

[Sour Mash]

If you're not doing anything wrong, who cares?

So if the if the police followed you down the street on your way to work filming you, you wouldn't be at all bothered? Of course you would be and quite rightly too.

[Saint137]

We're all filmed, tracked, profiled, and generally monitored throughout our lives these days, there's very little you can do to avoid it. If you're bothered, cover your face (ideally with a Saints scarf

You have to remember that as football fans we are essentially scum looking for trouble who can't even be trusted to stand up without harming ourselves

[JRM]

If you are not doing anything wrong who cares? And how do you even know they were zoomed in on you. If you walk to St Marys from the train station you will probably be filmed by about 20 CCTV cameras anyway so what's the harm in 1 more when it probably isnt even focused on you.

 

If you drove to St Marys from say London you would have driven through about 50 CCTV cameras and 15 ANPR cameras.

 

What's the big deal with 1 more? It will only be a big deal if you are a "fence rattler"

 

they already have cctv at the ground, so why the need for the Hant football ;intelligence' to ponce around with a camera provactively, you wouldn't stand for it doing any other activity, taking your kids to the park for example, so you shouldn't stand for it at football

[JRM]

and fair play to the skates for complaining about it.

[trousers]

The CCTV at the ground will be used for safety and to keep a general eye on the entire stand. The handheld camera by the OB would be used to gather intelligence targeted at specific individuals or groups.

 

Of course you wouldn't see a camera at the local park as there would be no risk. The risk of disorder at football especially at a pompey game is miles greater that a stroll in the park with your kids.

 

Quite simple really.

 

^This

 

The police in 'filming activities that can tend to engender public disorder' shocker.

[The Cat]

There should be no overt blanket filming as it doesn't deliver anything of value. There is always full CCTV coverage in the stadium which can be used (though the quality varies greatly).

 

That's why the stopped doing it then. It was pointless. I think they just wanted to show off their new camera.

 

Has it happened recently? Can't say I've noticed if it has.

[Sour Mash]

The CCTV at the ground will be used for safety and to keep a general eye on the entire stand. The handheld camera by the OB would be used to gather intelligence targeted at specific individuals or groups.

 

Of course you wouldn't see a camera at the local park as there would be no risk. The risk of disorder at football especially at a pompey game is miles greater that a stroll in the park with your kids.

 

Quite simple really.

But it goes against their own policy, as outlined above. Quite simple really? Oh and what intelligence were they gathering?

[Saint_clark]

Once again people fail to grasp the difference between fixed CCTV cameras that monitor a certain area 24/7 and a copper getting mug shots of thousands of innocent supporters with a hand-held camera.

[jawillwill]

---

So if the if the police followed you down the street on your way to work filming you, you wouldn't be at all bothered? Of course you would be and quite rightly too.

 

I'm not really sure what that has to do anything but if the police followed me, and only me, to work for no particular reason I might question them. But they haven't done that. They've filmed people at a public event which (and let's be honest) is renowned for having its fair share or trouble makers, based on intelligence. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Like I said, do nothing wrong and you have nothing to worry about, surely?

 

Aw others have pointed out, you get filmed on CCTV pretty much everywhere you go these days anyway, so what difference does it make if somebody is just holding the camera in front of you, rather than just watching you from a control room somewhere in the back of the stadium?

[JRM]

---

 

I'm not really sure what that has to do anything but if the police followed me, and only me, to work for no particular reason I might question them. But they haven't done that. They've filmed people at a public event which (and let's be honest) is renowned for having its fair share or trouble makers, based on intelligence. Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Like I said, do nothing wrong and you have nothing to worry about, surely?

 

Aw others have pointed out, you get filmed on CCTV pretty much everywhere you go these days anyway, so what difference does it make if somebody is just holding the camera in front of you, rather than just watching you from a control room somewhere in the back of the stadium?

 

would you be happy if they took your finger prints and mug shot on the way into the ground?

[shurlock]

would you be happy if they took your finger prints and mug shot on the way into the ground?

 

When do they do that? Last time I had any real aggro was Swansea away in 2008 -and sensing they going to be told to do one and their hearts not quite in it, the OB relented quite easily.

[JRM]

When do they do that? Last time I had any real aggro was Swansea away in 2008 -and sensing they going to be told to do one and their hearts not quite in it, the OB relented quite easily.

 

i remember that one, trying to put all away fans in a pub then deciding to put us on a bus to the ground and make us drink there, was a sh*t away day with an even worse performance.

taking your mug shot and finger prints would be one step on from the filming in the ground, which you think is fine.

 

if you are going to collect Donny ticket you might need an earlier train, i've had a row with the ticket office who say from 2pm on a match day they are only allowed to deal with match day sales of todays game.

 

also - if you wanted to save money megatrain do much better deals on trains down earlier in the day allowing for more drinking time.

[Sour Mash]

When do they do that? Last time I had any real aggro was Swansea away in 2008 -and sensing they going to be told to do one and their hearts not quite in it, the OB relented quite easily.

It was a hypothetical question FFS.

[Sour Mash]

Once again people fail to grasp the difference between fixed CCTV cameras that monitor a certain area 24/7 and a copper getting mug shots of thousands of innocent supporters with a hand-held camera.

Perfectly summed up.

[The Mac Attack]

Perfectly summed up.

 

and your point is......???

 

what does it matter if you don't have anything to hide.

[JRM]

and your point is......???

 

what does it matter if you don't have anything to hide.

 

what else would you be happy for the police to do? pop round and look round your house? i mean, you wouldn't mind would you as you have nothing to hide?

[shurlock]

i remember that one, trying to put all away fans in a pub then deciding to put us on a bus to the ground and make us drink there, was a sh*t away day with an even worse performance.

taking your mug shot and finger prints would be one step on from the filming in the ground, which you think is fine.

 

if you are going to collect Donny ticket you might need an earlier train, i've had a row with the ticket office who say from 2pm on a match day they are only allowed to deal with match day sales of todays game.

 

also - if you wanted to save money megatrain do much better deals on trains down earlier in the day allowing for more drinking time.

 

Its more of a leap, than a step. Having your finger prints and mug shot taken is personal in a way that being filmed is not; one presumes something might go off while the other is effectively accusing you. FWIW, I've had my prints taken and it feels very different from having a camera shoved in your general direction.

 

Cheers about Donny - thought they would be make an exception to the matchday tickets only rule -Saturday being one of the only times fans outside the area will be in Soton before Donny- so will bear it in mind.

[The Mac Attack]

what else would you be happy for the police to do? pop round and look round your house? i mean, you wouldn't mind would you as you have nothing to hide?

 

Can if they want, although I'd like a bit of notice. I always leave pants and stuff lying everywhere!!

 

I just don't understand why you find it so offensive, its no different to somebody just looking at you except there is a record of you so that if you have assaulted someone etc you can be caught for it.

[ericofarabia]

We're all filmed, tracked, profiled, and generally monitored throughout our lives these days, there's very little you can do to avoid it. If you're bothered, cover your face (ideally with a Saints scarf

You have to remember that as football fans we are essentially scum looking for trouble who can't even be trusted to stand up without harming ourselves

 

So that's why they keep making us (or try to) sit down

[trousers]

would you be happy if they took your finger prints and mug shot on the way into the ground?

 

Happy or unhappy? Neither

 

Ambivalent? Yes

[West End Saint]

I was at the home & away game when the filming took place & it really p1ssed me off it is almost inciting trouble having OB with a attitude problem pointing a camera at you for a extend period of time & the OB doing the filming knew he was winding people up & was playing up to it.

 

There is next to know trouble inside the ground so what are they trying to achieve if you are being filmed whilst kicking off fair enough but to be distracted whilst just watching a game where there is no problem in my book is out of order.

 

Anything football related is treated by the OB & Courts way over the top some of the sentence's for the fence rattling was disgusting the system should treat society fairly that is not the case for football fans

[Barry the Badger]

 

Anything football related is treated by the OB & Courts way over the top some of the sentence's for the fence rattling was disgusting the system should treat society fairly that is not the case for football fans

 

I do have some sympathy for the position the police are put in, but it is crazy that I'm wondering whether if I get caught with a hip flask on the pompey trip will I end up missing the game.

[Give it to Ron]

They did it at the West Ham game from the steps by block 34 because I nearly tripped over the idiot blocking the stairs.

[Saint137]

Its hardly a new thing (unfortunately), we got filmed regularly when we were in the Prem for no obvious reason. Fact is we are second in the scum stakes behind rioters as far as the court system is concerned, but we do only have ourselves to blame. Anything that goes on at a ground these days is like a WI meeting compared to the 80s and judges have long memories.

As I said up there, cover your face if you're bothered. Although this can be seen as an offence, you're not allowed to conceal your identity from the OB anymore. Just another part of the monitoring system that we've let happen in the name of public safety and anti-terrorism.

[Whitey Grandad]

and your point is......???

 

what does it matter if you don't have anything to hide.

 

Ah, this sounds like 'if you're innocent then you have nothing to fear'. It is the difference between a police state and a free society. Many years ago my wife and I went to Elland Road and whilst sitting in the stand we had a video camera pushed up our noses. Now I have no idea what made the copper decide that two old white-haired citizens were potential trouble-makers, but my dear wife was so annoyed by it that I had to stop her from starting a riot.

[Whitey Grandad]

would you be happy if they took your finger prints and mug shot on the way into the ground?

 

Papieren bitte!

[Chap in the Chapel]

Anyone who says that 'If you've got nothing to hide then you've got nothing to fear' should have all the curtains in their house confiscated.

[anothersaintinsouthsea]

If you're not doing anything wrong, who cares?

 

If you're not doing anything wrong then the police have no reason to treat you like you are

[rocknrollman no2]

If you're not doing anything wrong then the police have no reason to treat you like you are

Unless you are a football fan,then the police will suspect you of anything from wanting to start a riot,to singing songs with naughty words in them.

[Chap in the Chapel]

Completely different!! Being filmed at football is not an invasion of privacy unless the police officer followed you and only you for the entire game. Also St Marys is a public place. Your home is not.

 

I didn't mention football. I was expressing my irritation at people who seem to think that a surveillance culture is a price worth paying for "security".

 

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin.

[ringwood]

well Hants police can never of filmed a Millwall fan then because they had no intelligence on them!

[1976_Child]

Last time the wazzas filmed us I went up to one officer and asked what happened to the tapes, were they stored safely etc. He assured me that they were kept in a safe in the cop-shop in Fratton. I joked that that was hardly reassuring that they were sent to Fratton. He eyeballed me and said 'Why is that, sir?' (in a really patronising way, as if to indicate that I was filth and not a sir). I said 'because our fishy friends in fratton hate us'. He then gave me an unofficial warning about 'being prejudiced'. What a humourless knob, thought I.

[Turkish]

It's not just us, have a gander at this....

 

http://www.pompeytrust.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=342%3Areport-on-police-filming-at-leeds&catid=45%3Apress-news

 

I found this comment in Burrows statement interesting...

 

 

"That said, the use of video / stills must have a legitimate need and should not be used in such a way that is unnecessary, disproportionate or affects the enjoyment of the vast majority of peaceful fans who want to watch the football"

 

Well it upset most of the northam, so it was.

 

Having read some of his statements and responses to letter, he strikes me as a very arrogant man with a massive sense of self importance. Hopefully he'll get him promotion and we can return to the good old days of Crabtree.