Cortese Meal Wednesday

[The Kraken]

I didn't say at any point that supporters shouldn't be able to question club decisions; I simply challenged people as to the basis on which they were questioning certain club decisions. I then backed this up by (effectively) asking whether others fans in the country were likely to share my view, which I believe they would.

 

I guess what gets me more than anything is some people's apparent need to moan (and me ending up moaning about the moaners)! It's impossible to satisfy all the people all the time on all issues, but Saints are getting pretty damn close at the moment. Just be grateful for that. COYR!!

 

Fans' forums are always going to attract their fair share of nutters. However, as customers, in a forum like that they have every right to have their say; I don't think it's your right, my right, or anybody's else's for that matter to determine whether they should ask a question that they at least deem legitimate. And the club always have the right to not answer any question they receive, for whatever reason.

 

Some people do need to moan; but those types of people are very quickly highlighted as such and generally given short shrift. A lot of people just want some honest answers to some honest questions, and with no fans forums and no other available avenue to now use there is no dialogue with the club. Which is why I don't see the consignment to history of the forums as a good thing, no matter how much some people are inclined to moan and no matter how well we are doing on and off the pitch.

Edited 15 November, 2011 by The Kraken

[shurlock]

Fans' forums are always going to attract their fair share of nutters. However, as customers, in a forum like that they have every right to have their say; I don't think it's your right, my right, or anybody's else's for that matter to determine whether they should ask a question that they at least deem legitimate. And the club always have the right to not answer any question they receive, for whatever reason.

 

Some people do need to moan; but those types of people are very quickly highlighted as such and generally given short shrift. A lot of people just want some honest answers to some honest questions, and with no fans forums and no other available avenue to now use there is no dialogue with the club. Which is why I don't see the consignment to history of the forums as a good thing, no matter how much some people are inclined to moan and no matter how well we are doing on and off the pitch.

 

Forums get hijacked by those who shout the loudest -and also become unrepresentative in their own way. The other consequence is that once a shouting contest ensues, the club becomes defensive and closes ranks -and you'll never get a straight answer. Insofar as the dinners are relatively low-key and allow for a proper, iterative conversation, they make it easier to ask tougher questions. As long as the dinners are truly random and attendees realise you can be firm but polite, they have a lot of value.

[The Kraken]

Forums get hijacked by those who shout the loudest -and also become unrepresentative in their own way. The other consequence is that once a shouting contest ensues, the club becomes defensive and closes ranks -and you'll never get a straight answer. Insofar as the dinners are relatively low-key and allow for a proper, iterative conversation, they make it easier to ask tougher questions. As long as the dinners are truly random and attendees realise you can be firm but polite, they have a lot of value.

 

I think the dinners have some value, no more than that.

 

They only represent a very, very small cross section of the fanbase.

It's completely unknown how the attendees are selected.

All attendees seem to be ST holders (I believe); if this is indeed true, while this does reward loyal customers, it completely writes off a cross section of customers who may have certain issues that therefore can/will not be brought to the table.

The only way these events can be recorded or aired to the public is by attendees memories, and through the medium of message boards; given that these boards only go out to a bare minority of all customers, a massive selection of fans are still missing out.

 

There's no doubt that previous fans forums have suffered in some way from the vocal minority. But that's not to say that overall they still weren't a very good thing, or that the format couldn't have been improved. A select group of invite only dinners that go out to a tiny, tiny percentage of fans is no adequate substitute IMO.

[farawaysaint]

Am I the only one who thinks Cortese-meal Wednesday's sounds like a Burger King promotion?

[Macey_J2]

I'm in block 40, live near millbrook and got an invite last year. At least 50% of the sth's there when i went sat in the northam.

[Dig Dig]

I'm in block 40, live near millbrook and got an invite last year. At least 50% of the sth's there when i went sat in the northam.

 

This can't be true. We've been told by the experts on this thread that all invitee's are ST holders from the family areas and all live in the "good" areas of Southampton. Maybe yours and the other invites were mistakes.

[Saint-scooby]

This can't be true. We've been told by the experts on this thread that all invitee's are ST holders from the family areas and all live in the "good" areas of Southampton. Maybe yours and the other invites were mistakes.

 

I dont think it matters where you live, doubt its a post code lottery,,,,,

[Dig Dig]

I dont think it matters where you live, doubt its a post code lottery,,,,,

 

Neither do I but some of the more cynical on here were suggesting just that.

[Ivan Katalinic's 'tache]

Am I the only one who thinks Cortese-meal Wednesday's sounds like a Burger King promotion?

 

Sounds more like a restaurant offer: bring along Nicola Cortese and receive a 25% discount on your bill...

[JRM]

Neither do I but some of the more cynical on here were suggesting just that.

 

i reckon they watch certain seats for a period of games and pick people from that, no way would they completely randomly invite people and run the risk of cortese having to sit though a meal with what could be a table of ****heads 18 year olds and an old lady

[Tokyo-Saint]

i reckon they watch certain seats for a period of games and pick people from that, no way would they completely randomly invite people and run the risk of cortese having to sit though a meal with what could be a table of ****heads 18 year olds and an old lady

 

Haha Slapping the back of the restaurant at high pace. I know that half the time I go, I wouldn't want to share a coffee with some of the people around me. I cannot blame Nic at all if he does pick and choose a bit.

[um pahars]

Forums get hijacked by those who shout the loudest -and also become unrepresentative in their own way. The other consequence is that once a shouting contest ensues, the club becomes defensive and closes ranks

 

As someone who has attended a number of fans forums I do think people have the wrong idea about what went on during them.

 

There were one or two ding dongs with the usual suspects during our time at The Dell, but after Lowe had banned them (quite rightly IMHO if they couldn't be civilised) then the others over the years were very civilised affairs. The Radio Solent forums were even more civilised.

 

No one dominated them, no one got overly argumentative or loud and most were relatively constructive and informative.

 

I think these intimate random dinners have their place, but I also think a wider fans forum wouldn't be a bad idea either.

[Turkish]

As someone who has attended a number of fans forums I do think people have the wrong idea about what went on during them.

 

There were one or two ding dongs with the usual suspects during our time at The Dell, but after Lowe had banned them (quite rightly IMHO if they couldn't be civilised) then the others over the years were very civilised affairs. The Radio Solent forums were even more civilised.

 

No one dominated them, no one got overly argumentative or loud and most were relatively constructive and informative.

 

I think these intimate random dinners have their place, but I also think a wider fans forum wouldn't be a bad idea either.

 

If they had invited you to the meal Um you could have put forward a compelling case to be our fan on the board.

[um pahars]

I guess what gets me more than anything is some people's apparent need to moan (and me ending up moaning about the moaners)! It's impossible to satisfy all the people all the time on all issues, but Saints are getting pretty damn close at the moment. Just be grateful for that. COYR!!

 

But as others have mentioned it shouldn't just be about having a moan, perhaps it should be about engaging with supporters, sharing ideas, helping to explain issues, getting wider feedback, helping the Club constructively, generating ideas etc etc etc.

 

I can remember one forum in 2003 being really useful as people tried to convince the Club that we would need to be thinkng about accomodating 2,000 plus for the Steaua away game, as at the time Loz Coley, Cowen and Lowe were thinking we would be lucky to take 500. I could see their POV as they were basing their estimate on our average away gate, cost and logistics, whereas many pointed out that this was undersetimating the demand for this game.

[LostBoys]

Cortese's ruined this club. Until we get the free parking back, it'll never be the cosy-family club Askham, Wiseman et al gave us.

 

You have forgotten the madmen that followed them Askham made mistakes and the biggest one was introducing Rupes but he tried to run the club soundly - normally by flogging our best players. The guys that followed all had their own agendas.

[up and away]

Some seem to believe that the fans forums had a magical quality, but I really cannot say either side got much out of them. Most of the time you could not get a definitive answer and the more complex questions could never be addressed in such a forum. I had a long running dispute by email regarding the share buy backs and no limit placed upon such. At the end I still never got the definitive as with any other company and we just had to take it as it was.

 

The only real value I see in the forums and dinners is to give the fans some in depth back ground information from the club about what is / has happened. Apart from the last dinner, I believe the dinners have been far more informative. Allowing Cortese to give unattributable quotes to gain such inside information. I am not averse if they bring back the fans forums, but far prefer the feed back from the dinners. When you look at some of the questions put to Cortese previously, no one was dodging any issue and Cortese could and did answer more informatively, than he would have been able to in public.

[The Kraken]

The only real value I see in the forums and dinners is to give the fans some in depth back ground information from the club about what is / has happened. Apart from the last dinner, I believe the dinners have been far more informative. Allowing Cortese to give unattributable quotes to gain such inside information. I am not averse if they bring back the fans forums, but far prefer the feed back from the dinners. When you look at some of the questions put to Cortese previously, no one was dodging any issue and Cortese could and did answer more informatively, than he would have been able to in public.

 

That's all well and good, but there is currently no way to ensure that a particular question is posed to the club. And no formal way for the answer to be given either.

 

in the short term it would be very benficial if one attendee were to visit the message boards and try to gauge what questions people would like to see asked. Of course this is never going to cover what everybody asks, but it will ensure that the attendee becomes aware of the most pertinent questions that many people would like to see an answer to.

[NickG]

forums were an interesting chance to hear from the club but you could pretty much guess what the answers would be - can't remember anything particularly earth shattering to come out of them,

 

these meals seem a positive gesture.

 

reckon the vast majority of fans have no gripes at the moment, or unanswered questions.

[Matthew Le God]

Benefit of a fans dinner is it is more likely Cortese might get tipsy and reveal more about the club than he would at a sober fans forum live on BBC Solent.

[Sour Mash]

forums were an interesting chance to hear from the club but you could pretty much guess what the answers would be - can't remember anything particularly earth shattering to come out of them,

 

these meals seem a positive gesture.

 

reckon the vast majority of fans have no gripes at the moment, or unanswered questions.

Simple question. You don't think the club should be challenged on what has happened to the flag lots of saints fans contributed lots of money to? Yes or no? On a lesser note, you think the way we manage away tickets is good enough? Matches a club of our forward-thinking aspirations?

[NickG]

Simple question. You don't think the club should be challenged on what has happened to the flag lots of saints fans contributed lots of money to? Yes or no? On a lesser note, you think the way we manage away tickets is good enough? Matches a club of our forward-thinking aspirations?

 

The flag thing seems strange. I haven't seen it despite going to all competitive home games - although didn't contribute so not overly fussed. I think if you paid into it you deserve to know what happens with it.

 

Don't have an opinion on away ticketing, no longer generally do away games so not aware of the policy - even if it is wrong, rather than just not suiting some, fans forums / fan on the board etc are not likely to influence a strong leader like Nicola.

 

Most, pretty close to all fans, will say Nicola is pretty faultless at the moment.

 

Big crowds, entertaining football, top of the league, good club atmosphere - all stemming from the leadership of the club.

 

I am sure he could be more the fans' mate, providing lots of cheap tickets etc, spending his time talking with fans - nice if it was the case but as long as he is excelling in the important stuff must are extremely happy with his actions.

[JRM]

Most, pretty close to all fans, will say Nicola is pretty faultless at the moment.

 

QUOTE]

 

"Nicola" might be , but the club he runs, just like any other business, has room to improve, the ticketing system that he charges for is an embarrassment, especially for away fans, refusing to post out Doncaster tickets yet happy to take a £3 booking fee, we had a look at who else is playing up there soon and watford are sending out tickets, and charge a 50p booking fee.

 

fans would feel better if they had a chance to put some of the points across,

 

why do the club have such little interest in encouraging fans from travelling away, charging for travel club users to park, it doesn't give people a positive vibe. the treatment of our loyal fans who live a distance from st marys do not seem to be given much consideration, why will they not send out the coach tickets for pompey away?

 

i'd be interested to know more about why he has still banned the echo because they reported good news about the training ground, and how modelling ourselves on Barcelona involves banning the local paper.

 

if an intermidiary was available would he be prepared to meet with the clubs biggest legend Matthew Le Tissier and do what all fans want to see and bring him onside and put an end to another petty fued.

 

there are plenty of positives as well, but i think your sweeping statement that all fans would agree with you might be wide of the mark.

[The Kraken]

there are plenty of positives as well, but i think your sweeping statement that all fans would agree with you might be wide of the mark.

 

Agreed.

 

To suggest Cortese or the club have been "faultless" is naive at best.

[Matthew Le God]

i'd be interested to know more about why he has still banned the echo because they reported good news about the training ground, and how modelling ourselves on Barcelona involves banning the local paper.

 

Because they had a gentleman's agreement they would wait until the press conference, which they then broke.

[The Kraken]

Because they had a gentleman's agreement they would wait until the press conference, which they then broke.

 

The key word of JRM's question perhaps being "still"; as in why the local paper is still banned, it smacks of pettiness from an owner who IMO should rise above such a minor transgression. Especially given that the information was already in the public domain when the echo went to print, it was hardly groundbreaking news.

[shurlock]

Faultless is OTT but some fail to see the woods through the trees. Am as affected as anyone by the issues raised but am I going to lose sleep over them, not really. When you consider the full range of things that could happen to, or go wrong with the club, does the importance of the issues justify the war-and-peace length threads and repeated discussion, nah not really.

 

What is naive is to think that posters don't have ulterior motives -whether its just the desire of some to have a moan and a grumble.

[Avenue Saint]

Agreed.

 

To suggest Cortese or the club have been "faultless" is naive at best.

 

In the context of football club chairmen of today and their overall impact on their football club, Cortese is fast becoming a legend in my book mate!

[The Kraken]

Faultless is OTT but some fail to see the woods through the trees. Am as affected as anyone by the issues raised but am I going to lose sleep over them, not really. When you consider the full range of things that could happen to, or go wrong with club, does the importance of the issues justify the war-and-peace length threads and repeated discussion, no not really.

 

What is naive is to think that posters don't have ulterior motives, even if its just the desire to have a moan and a grumble.

 

Where does this precious notion of wanting to hear nothing bad about the club come from?

 

Surely you can understand that pretty much all people can recognise the great job that Cortese has done for the club overall? Wanting some answers or resolution on some relatively trivial issues doesn't equate to an attack on the club; it's ridiculous to assume that's the case. And just because there are indeed a handful of nutters who will criticise the club come what may, it shouldn't be enough to detract from the rest of the population asking some thoroughly reasonable questions.

[The Kraken]

In the context of football club chairmen of today and their overall impact on their football club, Cortese is fast becoming a legend in my book mate!

 

And you'll find my opinion of him is not far from yours. It doesn't mean I don't think there are some other areas of the business which, though relatively trivial in nature, couldn't be significantly improved.

[hypochondriac]

Where does this precious notion of wanting to hear nothing bad about the club come from?

 

Surely you can understand that pretty much all people can recognise the great job that Cortese has done for the club overall? Wanting some answers or resolution on some relatively trivial issues doesn't equate to an attack on the club; it's ridiculous to assume that's the case. And just because there are indeed a handful of nutters who will criticise the club come what may, it shouldn't be enough to detract from the rest of the population asking some thoroughly reasonable questions.

 

Kraken, you speak so much sense but I am afraid you will be fighting a losing battle on here.

[hypochondriac]

In the context of football club chairmen of today and their overall impact on their football club, Cortese is fast becoming a legend in my book mate!

 

However high your opinion is of him he is still a human being and therefore still prone to mistakes or errors of judgement. All Kraken said was that to call thew club fautless is untrue. They have done some things really really well but they aren't fautless.

[benjii]

A lot of people have a pretty inflated sense of self-importance, frankly.

[Saint_clark]

The key word of JRM's question perhaps being "still"; as in why the local paper is still banned, it smacks of pettiness from an owner who IMO should rise above such a minor transgression. Especially given that the information was already in the public domain when the echo went to print, it was hardly groundbreaking news.

 

The Echo still do match reports and print pictures to do with the club, don't they? If there's evidence that the Echo is banned then i've yet to see it.

[shurlock]

Where does this precious notion of wanting to hear nothing bad about the club come from?

 

Surely you can understand that pretty much all people can recognise the great job that Cortese has done for the club overall? Wanting some answers or resolution on some relatively trivial issues doesn't equate to an attack on the club; it's ridiculous to assume that's the case. And just because there are indeed a handful of nutters who will criticise the club come what may, it shouldn't be enough to detract from the rest of the population asking some thoroughly reasonable questions.

 

I'm not saying criticisms amount to an attack on the club -and wouldn't really be bothered if they did. Chairmen are there to be shot at -they're paid enough to bear that risk and I've supported this club long enough- I just think perspective is sometimes in short supply. In the long-run, crying wolf weakens -rather than strengthens- fans' hands, makes them look like numpties when the full facts come out and then makes it easier for the club to sidestep genuine criticism.

 

In the meantime, on Saturday, I'll just take the 12.35 from Waterloo instead of the 13.05, so I can pick up my donny tickets and turn it into an opportunity (I'll be able to catch more of the early premiership game than I usually can). I'm sure I'll survive.

Edited 16 November, 2011 by shurlock

[The Kraken]

The Echo still do match reports and print pictures to do with the club, don't they? If there's evidence that the Echo is banned then i've yet to see it.

 

I too assumed it had all been resolved and that they were all getting on with it; there were a couple of threads on here not so long ago that suggested that was not the case. I believe Steve Grant confirmed it.

 

EDIT: turns out the thread was only on page 2.

 

http://www.saintsweb.co.uk/showthread.php?33703-Relationship-with-the-press&p=1184315#post1184315

Edited 16 November, 2011 by The Kraken

[Nexstar]

Jordan Sibley will be looking into the flag issue. That's all I've heard from the dinner

[hypochondriac]

Anyone going to report back then?

[saint-crinny]

Know someone who went tonight - had a quick chat with him and he had enjoyed himself.

Said biggest thing that came across was NC's single minded approach - his business, does it his way.

A few interesting things, which i'll get more details on after a proper 'de-brief' on Saturday, but i do like his ultimate aim - to win the PL with 8 homegrown players.

Also that we are 'statistically the second best passing team in Europe, after Barca' - hilarious interpretation of statistics in anyone's book!

[JRM]

Know someone who went tonight - had a quick chat with him and he had enjoyed himself.

Said biggest thing that came across was NC's single minded approach - his business, does it his way.

A few interesting things, which i'll get more details on after a proper 'de-brief' on Saturday, but i do like his ultimate aim - to win the PL with 8 homegrown players.

Also that we are 'statistically the second best passing team in Europe, after Barca' - hilarious interpretation of statistics in anyone's book!

 

i wish someone would take a recording of the meal rathe than rely on the snippets that someones mates heard.

 

if i went along i wouldn't want to waste time discussing our passing ratio to Barcelona's, what use is that to anyone?

[Sour Mash]

The flag thing seems strange. I haven't seen it despite going to all competitive home games - although didn't contribute so not overly fussed. I think if you paid into it you deserve to know what happens with it.

 

Don't have an opinion on away ticketing, no longer generally do away games so not aware of the policy - even if it is wrong, rather than just not suiting some, fans forums / fan on the board etc are not likely to influence a strong leader like Nicola.

 

Most, pretty close to all fans, will say Nicola is pretty faultless at the moment.

 

Big crowds, entertaining football, top of the league, good club atmosphere - all stemming from the leadership of the club.

 

I am sure he could be more the fans' mate, providing lots of cheap tickets etc, spending his time talking with fans - nice if it was the case but as long as he is excelling in the important stuff must are extremely happy with his actions.

So you're not bothered about things that don't directly effect you. Pity, but sums up modern football fans and society in general.

[saintscottofthenortham]

So you're not bothered about things that don't directly effect you. Pity, but sums up modern football fans and society in general.

 

Very much how that sounded to me.

 

"hmmmm.. There is a load of nails in the road, but I won't be driving this way so I don't need to move them."

[Saint Garrett]

I understand where NickG is coming from, although we still have the right to question things as nothing is ever perfect and there are always ways of improving. I don't think you'll find many Saints fans not thankful for what Liebherr/Cortese have brought and done to the club...but there will always be room for improvement and the issues with away games is very annoying for someone like me, who mainly goes to the away matches.

[Saint Garrett]

This is what my mate just put on facebook..he's just got back.

 

 

What can I say an experience I will never forget! Cortese took my phone from me too look at the pictures of us lads at the training ground that day at Plymouth and when i asked my first question he said he recognised me thats y i showed him and he said thats it!

 

Pure legend, who has amazing ambition and determination for the club! Doesn't like forecast (thankgod) Has handed plans to the council to exstend the ground too 44k has a player in mind for when the transfer window opens. Tells people to just 'not get caught if you use someone else's ST' his words!

 

Told us poyet was just bitter and jelous of Adkins because he got the job and poyet didn't. Sorting out the Internet page next year hopefully when contract ends. Is going to sign hooverfield permanent in jan.

 

Rumours of Owen are rubbish.

 

Never put in a bid of 6.5 for roddreguiz cos he's not worth that.

 

Sad chamberlain left but was family persuasion. Got in contact to Plymouth chairman to try buy every saints fan at plymouth a beer last season but Plymouth said no and he argued it and they wouldn't allow it. Great guy!

[Matthew Le God]

Has handed plans to the council to extend the ground to 44k

 

 

CB Fry, Egg and other doubters etc etc care to comment?

 

(if Saint Garrett's mate is telling the truth of course)

Edited 17 November, 2011 by Matthew Le God

[Saintandy666]

I guess just because he hands plans to the council for approval, doesn't mean he wants to do it right now??? Or am I being a moron?

[Saint Garrett]

Im guessing that he's just testing the water as to whether this is possible or whether it would be beneficial to build another stadium which is what he has mentioned previously.

[Matthew Le God]

I guess just because he hands plans to the council for approval, doesn't mean he wants to do it right now??? Or am I being a moron?

 

Im guessing that he's just testing the water as to whether this is possible or whether it would be beneficial to build another stadium which is what he has mentioned previously.

 

Of course, but it does show the capacity he is considering.

[hypochondriac]

 

CB Fry, Egg and other doubters etc etc care to comment?

 

(if Saint Garrett's mate is telling the truth of course)

 

What does handing some plans to the council prove?

[Saintandy666]

The Premier League with 8 homegrown players is the interesting bit! That'll take 10-15 years and huge investment... he's in for the long run I think.

[hypochondriac]

Of course, but it does show the capacity he is considering.

 

Yes he is planning ahead which is the sensible thing to do. I don't think anyone disputed that if we were doing really well towards the top end of the premiership every year that increased capacity wouldn't be a sensible thing.