david in sweden Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 NO! ..I'm not saying he's as good as...but does he remind you a líttle of .. Michael Svensson..for commitment and aggression ? If he turns out to be half as good as MS - he'd still be a good buy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david in sweden Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 I'd sooner keep Jos and replace Jaidi and Seaborne IF we get into the Prem. I think we'd be a fool not to keep a player who has performed so well. He could well be the difference between staying in the top 2 and a 75% chance of losing in the play offs. What's that worth these days? £70m odd last I heard. Having said that I think £2m is taking the p*ss a bit from Celtic. I believe it's more than they paid for him and considering he was a failure there I think we could get him at a cut price. sadly, Jaidi's op. may mean he doesn't play for us again this season and he was only on a one year contract. Dan Seabourne was in good form last season, but we won't know if he will regain his former prowess, and if not then we'll need ANOTHER CH for the Prem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 We are loaded so if we don't pay the price it'll be a clear signal of lack of intent. Or a clear signal that NC is working to a plan and won't over spend for anyone..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sour Mash Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 I thought he was a rubbish Celtic reject? I'm happy to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. Had my doubts when he signed, but he's been spot on for us (apart from that mistake at Cardiff) and seems like a genuinely top lad to boot. Sign him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 I'm happy to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. Had my doubts when he signed, but he's been spot on for us (apart from that mistake at Cardiff) and seems like a genuinely top lad to boot. Sign him up. You were hardly the only one. I thought I'd wait to see him play before I commented on him first couple of games I was thinking WTF have we done signing this guy. However he has got better and better and I would love to see him stay now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 Neither did I say that you hadn't said that there was Premiership interest in him. I just made the point that if he had played at Champions' League level and several Premiership clubs were sniffing around, it inferred that they must think that he is capable of stepping up. But I note that merely by suggesting that it would be interesting to see whether he can make the step up, you infer that you have your doubts, although you're happy with him at this level at least. I'm confident that he can make the step up when we're promoted. I have no doubts. I don't know. I'm simply saying it would be interesting to see how he does in the prem. Stop putting words in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 I'm happy to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong. Had my doubts when he signed, but he's been spot on for us (apart from that mistake at Cardiff) and seems like a genuinely top lad to boot. Sign him up. Don't apologise for having doubts about a player before he has played. There is nothing wrong with having an opinion as long as you are open to change that opinion once you have more evidence available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 Or a clear signal that NC is working to a plan and won't over spend for anyone..... No, it's what I said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 No, it's what I said. Not really NC has already stated his ambition many many times they involve getting to the PL and running a self sustaining club. Not being prepared to pay twice what celtic paid for a player last january and hardly used since would hardly be showing a lack of ambition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 Not really NC has already stated his ambition many many times they involve getting to the PL and running a self sustaining club. Not being prepared to pay twice what celtic paid for a player last january and hardly used since would hardly be showing a lack of ambition. If we won't pay peanuts, and that is what we are talking here, then it will show a lack of intent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintchris23 Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 According to his twitter, he's instructed solicitors to send a legal letter to whoever reported that story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 According to his twitter, he's instructed solicitors to send a legal letter to whoever reported that story No he didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattio Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 If he was that bad last season who knows what NA could do with other under performing players, as long as they have the desire to improve, we could have a cracking squad of "rejects" next season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 14 November, 2011 Author Share Posted 14 November, 2011 He was getting lawyer advice about his old house I think ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypochondriac Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 He was getting lawyer advice about his old house I think ? Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 Do you lot stalk all our players twitterings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Sorry, I'll try for a third time. It's unlikely the sticking point will be the transfer fee. A range between 750k and 2m, I guess. Probabaly settle at about 1m. The problem is salary. Let's say he's on £20k a week at Celtic and we are presently paying 50% of his wages. (guesswork...but probably in the ballpark). As of January, he can return to Glasgow on £20K a week or sign for us on maybe £10K? £12K? (e.g. a poss loss to him of £500K a year). Or if he sign him on a c.£20k a week deal, then those star players on c. £10k a week (Lallana? Kelv? Rickie?) may also ask for a pay hike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saints foreva Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Sorry, I'll try for a third time. It's unlikely the sticking point will be the transfer fee. A range between 750k and 2m, I guess. Probabaly settle at about 1m. The problem is salary. Let's say he's on £20k a week at Celtic and we are presently paying 50% of his wages. (guesswork...but probably in the ballpark). As of January, he can return to Glasgow on £20K a week or sign for us on maybe £10K? £12K? (e.g. a poss loss to him of £500K a year). Or if he sign him on a c.£20k a week deal, then those star players on c. £10k a week (Lallana? Kelv? Rickie?) may also ask for a pay hike. Lallana, Lambert, Cork and Fonte are probably on between £15,000-£25,000 a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cellone Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Remember the Saga saga though don't you Ron? Think what if Nigel had him on the bus. Would he of lost his form so easily? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the saint in winchester Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 That/this is the point. We are paying up to £25k a week. We issued revised contract terms to our key players to match those of the players coming in. I'm sure the figure of £20k will be acceptable to the Club, as long as we don't have to overpay to Celtic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suewhistle Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Or we organise bonuses dependent on promotion. Lots of ways round this particular problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Garrett Posted 15 November, 2011 Author Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Not if Celtic and Jos both want a permanent deal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintBobby Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Lallana, Lambert, Cork and Fonte are probably on between £15,000-£25,000 a week. Well, tweak the numbers/people to show the problem. If Jos gets a £20k pw deal, what do Chaplow and Guly ask for? They just say "Fair play, guv, I'm happy with my £7K a week...good luck to Jos, must have a great agent!" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Lallana, Lambert, Cork and Fonte are probably on between £15,000-£25,000 a week. Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Would cost too much for a player who looks as though he would be hopelessly out of depth in the prem (he's so slow when turning it's like watching jaidi again). Save the money and invest in a top class centre back in the summer, when we know what league we will be in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexstar Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Would cost too much for a player who looks as though he would be hopelessly out of depth in the prem (he's so slow when turning it's like watching jaidi again). Save the money and invest in a top class centre back in the summer, when we know what league we will be in Would be interested to know how somebody who has been very good in a side sitting top of the Championship could immediately be "hopelessly out of depth" in the Prem? Bear in mind he has played in the Champion League, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 The obvious answer is the gap between the championship and the prem is huge. Just think he will get badly undone in the prem against better and quicker forwards. Afterall, watching him against Ishmael Miller was frightening enough. He's been a fantastic loan when we needed a body to come in, and he's shown he's good enough to play in the championship, but i think that is his level and i don't see any point in buying players anymore who won't be able to step up. Who did he play in the champions league for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 The obvious answer is the gap between the championship and the prem is huge. Just think he will get badly undone in the prem against better and quicker forwards. Afterall, watching him against Ishmael Miller was frightening enough. He's been a fantastic loan when we needed a body to come in, and he's shown he's good enough to play in the championship, but i think that is his level and i don't see any point in buying players anymore who won't be able to step up. Who did he play in the champions league for? There are many centre backs playing in the Prem who are not as good as Jos and I do not think he would be out of his depth at all ... Alcaraz, Bramble, Olsson, Berra, Even count those hopeless French misfits at Arsenal if you like - I mean Gary Monk is not doing too bad either is he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junior Mullet Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Come on Jos, get on the bus and take a seat lad. The weather is so much nicer down here and we even have palm trees. We also have lots of loose women - something that money just can't buy. Or can it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verbal Kint Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 There are many centre backs playing in the Prem who are not as good as Jos and I do not think he would be out of his depth at all ... Alcaraz, Bramble, Olsson, Berra, Even count those hopeless French misfits at Arsenal if you like - I mean Gary Monk is not doing too bad either is he? A game of opinions. I think all those players listed are superior to Jos. And with the exception of Titus i think they're all vastly superior... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 (edited) The obvious answer is the gap between the championship and the prem is huge. Just think he will get badly undone in the prem against better and quicker forwards. Afterall, watching him against Ishmael Miller was frightening enough. He's been a fantastic loan when we needed a body to come in, and he's shown he's good enough to play in the championship, but i think that is his level and i don't see any point in buying players anymore who won't be able to step up. Who did he play in the champions league for? The partnership of Coventry's Scott Dann and Cardiff's Roger Johnson was a revelation in Birmingham's 09/10 campaign. The gap isn't as wide as many think, it's more about the partnership and chemistry of the players in key positions. And Jos played for Copenhagen. They finished second in their group and made it into the last 8. Edited 15 November, 2011 by Colinjb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 There are many centre backs playing in the Prem who are not as good as Jos and I do not think he would be out of his depth at all ... Alcaraz, Bramble, Olsson, Berra, Even count those hopeless French misfits at Arsenal if you like - I mean Gary Monk is not doing too bad either is he? I'd be more worried about Fonte than about Jos in the Premier League to be honest. Jos looks good in the tackle and very useful in the air, Fonte looks like something out of some wrestling bout most of the time of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 lennon does not like him and does not fit into his style of play and is trying to off load him . so we might get himon the cheap. Also Hoos will want to stay with a winning team not the bunch of losers in the hoops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Lallana, Lambert, Cork and Fonte are probably on between £15,000-£25,000 a week. I think you will find that around £15k is the correct amount for these players. Without revealing exactly who he spoke to a Close friend had an hour long conversation on all things financial with a key member of the saints management team. It was all recognised that major surgery would be requireded on the team should we get promoted this year if we are to compete ( not really a revelation i guess). The general tone of covnersation around the ML family continuing to support would the club would revolve around NCs continued involvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foxstone Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 A game of opinions. I think all those players listed are superior to Jos. And with the exception of Titus i think they're all vastly superior... True its all about opinions and I could not disagree with you more ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jez Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Well, tweak the numbers/people to show the problem. If Jos gets a £20k pw deal, what do Chaplow and Guly ask for? They just say "Fair play, guv, I'm happy with my £7K a week...good luck to Jos, must have a great agent!" ??? This is different to when Saints ANY player how exactly? (or any other club for that matter) Especially as Adkins has stated he will only be buying players that are better than what we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saintchris23 Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 My apologies for not reading his tweet thoroughly. Apparently 2+2 doesn't equal 5! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merrimd Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Sorry, I'll try for a third time. It's unlikely the sticking point will be the transfer fee. A range between 750k and 2m, I guess. Probabaly settle at about 1m. The problem is salary. Let's say he's on £20k a week at Celtic and we are presently paying 50% of his wages. (guesswork...but probably in the ballpark). As of January, he can return to Glasgow on £20K a week or sign for us on maybe £10K? £12K? (e.g. a poss loss to him of £500K a year). Or if he sign him on a c.£20k a week deal, then those star players on c. £10k a week (Lallana? Kelv? Rickie?) may also ask for a pay hike. Or, sign him on 10k a week, with a 500k signing on fee. Job done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
St_Tel49 Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 The obvious answer is the gap between the championship and the prem is huge. Just think he will get badly undone in the prem against better and quicker forwards. Afterall, watching him against Ishmael Miller was frightening enough. He's been a fantastic loan when we needed a body to come in, and he's shown he's good enough to play in the championship, but i think that is his level and i don't see any point in buying players anymore who won't be able to step up. Who did he play in the champions league for? Is it? Perhaps the gap between the Chamionship and the top 4 or 5 is huge but the rest are very average but because their palyers are in the premiership they get paid top dollar - certainly far more than they are worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS1980 Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 It's an interesting decision regarding Jos. I think he's been great for us so far, so do we try and sign him in Jan, extend the loan? Another consideration is IF we go up, would we be able to poach better players from the teams that go down? Scott Danns and Roger Johnson both left after being relagated last season and both in danger of going down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lallana's Left Peg Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 You can't bring someone in loan, them be a part of a team that takes you to the top of the league, and then not try to sign them. I get the feeling the chances of a deal occurring would be no more than 50/50 due to the negotiation process and our stance on walking away from transfers in the recent past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doddisalegend Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 I think you will find that around £15k is the correct amount for these players. Without revealing exactly who he spoke to a Close friend had an hour long conversation on all things financial with a key member of the saints management team. It was all recognised that major surgery would be requireded on the team should we get promoted this year if we are to compete ( not really a revelation i guess). The general tone of covnersation around the ML family continuing to support would the club would revolve around NCs continued involvement. I ****ing hope not. One of the reasons we are doing so well is we have a team (rather than a bunch of money grabbers and journeymen pretending to be a team) a wholesale cull of the players after gainning promotion (if it happens) and bringing in a load of new faces would kill that dead. I'd much rather we gave the players that get us to the PL a chance than off load them the minute the promotion party ends..........but that could just be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Clarke Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 I think you will find that around £15k is the correct amount for these players. Without revealing exactly who he spoke to a Close friend had an hour long conversation on all things financial with a key member of the saints management team. It was all recognised that major surgery would be requireded on the team should we get promoted this year if we are to compete ( not really a revelation i guess). The general tone of covnersation around the ML family continuing to support would the club would revolve around NCs continued involvement. People said the same last year, in that we'll need to replace our defense and Rickie etc should we compete in the championship. When we get promoted we'll add 3 or 4 top quality players to enhance what we already have. There will not be any major surgery as that would be seriously detrimental to how well we're playing at the moment. It's all about team spirit and continuity - and you will not retain that by replacing the entire squad. In fact I'd say we'd probably do worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wild-saint Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 People said the same last year, in that we'll need to replace our defense and Rickie etc should we compete in the championship. When we get promoted we'll add 3 or 4 top quality players to enhance what we already have. There will not be any major surgery as that would be seriously detrimental to how well we're playing at the moment. It's all about team spirit and continuity - and you will not retain that by replacing the entire squad. In fact I'd say we'd probably do worse. i agree but it could be argued that 3/4 top players coming in to the side could be classed as major surgery (25 - 35% new side). Lets be honest top players coming in are unlikely to want to be bench warmers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dune Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Some fair comments, but also there were these.. http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/showthread.php?t=114755 get it done celtic; one big mouth i'll be happy to see the back of. a mil then negotiate each way but i dont think soton have much money do they? Believe Nigel Adkins the Saints manager is a phisotherapist so quick Celtic tie this one up before it slips away from us and he gets the bullet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buctootim Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Some fair comments, but also there were these.. http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/showthread.php?t=114755 get it done celtic; one big mouth i'll be happy to see the back of. a mil then negotiate each way but i dont think soton have much money do they? Believe Nigel Adkins the Saints manager is a phisotherapist so quick Celtic tie this one up before it slips away from us and he gets the bullet Theres also some cringe making posts from Saints fans. One starts '"we've a billionaire owner".... Erm he's dead and even if he wasnt he would be unlikely to splash cash around uncessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Window Cleaner Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Some fair comments, but also there were these.. http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/showthread.php?t=114755 get it done celtic; one big mouth i'll be happy to see the back of. a mil then negotiate each way but i dont think soton have much money do they? Believe Nigel Adkins the Saints manager is a phisotherapist so quick Celtic tie this one up before it slips away from us and he gets the bullet I see that none of them have twigged that it's Celtic who turn decent players into piles of crap and not the other way round then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorpe-le-Saint Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 Some fair comments, but also there were these.. http://www.talkceltic.net/forum/showthread.php?t=114755 get it done celtic; one big mouth i'll be happy to see the back of. a mil then negotiate each way but i dont think soton have much money do they? Believe Nigel Adkins the Saints manager is a phisotherapist so quick Celtic tie this one up before it slips away from us and he gets the bullet I find it amazing that 'football fans' can be so bloody ignorant of football. All they have to do is listen to a few podcasts/read a few articles and you can be pretty much clued up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krissyboy31 Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 I find it amazing that 'football fans' can be so bloody ignorant of football. All they have to do is listen to a few podcasts/read a few articles and you can be pretty much clued up.What? Like our lot who wrote him off as sh!t before seeing him even kick a ball?? Some players excel at some teams but are seen by others to be kack! I wouldn't go as far as sayin Hooiveld is the best thing since sliced bread but he has certainly silenced a lot of his critics since he's been here and by the reviews he has been getting, all of a sudden even Celtic supporters are beginning to change their tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanW Posted 15 November, 2011 Share Posted 15 November, 2011 You can't bring someone in loan' date=' them be a part of a team that takes you to the top of the league, and then not try to sign them.[/quote'] This is very true, but of course 'trying' and 'doing' are different things. Hooiveld's made it very clear in his interviews that he understands the business side of things and even if both he and SFC want him to stay, sometimes it just can't happen. Perhaps because Celtic want to keep him, perhaps because they are asking too much, or perhaps because of some other unforeseen reason. I truly believe that SFC will make an attempt at keeping him around. Whether they seal the deal is beyond anyone's guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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