Colinjb Posted 13 November, 2011 Share Posted 13 November, 2011 I hope there are people out there who can confirm my thoughts on this. My housemate has about 3 days of holiday left before then end of the calendar year. (The end of the alloted term to take their year's allowance) Due to workload though the company is refusing her (or any other staff member) from taking a holiday unless they have explicit proof of a prior arrangement. (E.g. flight tickets.) Now, refusing to allow holiday and needing proof in this way is as far as I am aware is illegal and quite outrageous. Does anyone know just how they think they can get away with this and what rights does my housemate have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Keith Posted 13 November, 2011 Share Posted 13 November, 2011 no, its not illegal. we are doing exactly the same at our place. its not very nice, and not very good for harmonious employee relations, but as long as they reimburse the 3 days, by either allowing it to be carried over or paying her for them, then its not illegal, provided she has had at least 20 days in the year, including the 8 days bank holidays, so 12 in effect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonnyboy Posted 13 November, 2011 Share Posted 13 November, 2011 b*stards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 13 November, 2011 Share Posted 13 November, 2011 Has she signed up on the European work directive? That states a minimum number of days leave required to take as well as maximum number of working hours in a week. Otherwise depends on the contract and goodwill of the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 13 November, 2011 Share Posted 13 November, 2011 (edited) Colin the working time directive is quite explicit. The minimum holiday is 28 . If the company is not allowing them to have holidays for a specific reason such as economic reasons then they can do this providing they have given notice , allowed the individua to be recompensed in some aspect then they can tecnically do this . If not they will be in breach of working time directives . I'm assuming you are working for the private sector and not public sector? Send me pm and let me know more details Edited 13 November, 2011 by Viking Warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 13 November, 2011 Share Posted 13 November, 2011 Doctor on call the working time is enshrined in uk employment law . It is the working week hours that individuals can sign out of . Originally employees were entitled to 21 days holiday however this changed a couple of years ago to 28 days 21 holiday and 7 public holidays . There is a case being heard and the matter of the 28 days . It's a complicated case . It will not imPact on Colins question but more to do with pro rata if someone leaves their employment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colinjb Posted 13 November, 2011 Author Share Posted 13 November, 2011 Colin the working time directive is quite explicit. The minimum holiday is 28 . If the company is not allowing them to have holidays for a specific reason such as economic reasons then they can do this providing they have given notice , allowed the individua to be recompensed in some aspect then they can tecnically do this . If not they will be in breach of working time directives . I'm assuming you are working for the private sector and not public sector? Send me pm and let me know more details She is working for the private sector, yes. I have no idea if any recompense has been offered. I will ask her more tomorrow evening... (although having said that I am entertaining a colleague from HQ tomorrow night... I will follow this up with her though, i'm sure she will be grateful for any clarification you can provide, cheers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitey Grandad Posted 13 November, 2011 Share Posted 13 November, 2011 First check the contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Tone Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 There's a difference between something being illegal, ie against the law of the land, and being a breach of contract, ie a civil law matter. As others have said employment law means she is entitled to a minimum of 28 days leave in a year (NB including bank holidays). Her contract may give her more....most people's do. If the company is then changing this, they are in effect varying her contract of employment which they can do, but there are rules about how they should do that ... consultation etc. So they may be in breach of civil law re their contractual obligation. Having said that, however close to the wind her employers may have sailed, she still ought to consider carefully how much fuss she wants to be seen to make. Having a reputation as a 'barrack room lawyer' is not usually an easy route to promotion, in private or public sector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 Colin jb In the UK the law on holiday pay from April 2009 states that everyone is entitled to 5.6 weeks (statutory) holiday per year except for the self employed, armed forces, police and civil protection services. Her company may give you more holiday (contractual) but cannot give her less than the statutory minimum. Her company cannot reduce her holiday to below the legal entitlement , they cannot do this. I would be interested in seeing what her contract states, Its sounds if they do this then they will be in breach of contract However, it sounds like this persons circumstances are such that as her employer has givin the minimum 28 days paid holiday (including bank holidays), then they must continue with this. Even if there is breach of your employment contract, then they employer will have accepted the breach. I look forward to hearing from you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976_Child Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 What is paid holiday? Never heard of such a thing! To be frank, and I don't mean this a nasty way, but in this economic climate she should count her lucky stars she has a job at all. Maybe her firm is taking such draconian action just to keep competitive and in business. Golden Employment Rights etc are all very well when the economy is chugging along at full speed but can quickly turn against their intended purpose when we are staring into the economic abyss as at the moment. I'm not saying we go back to the days before unions, when kids were made to work 18 hour days in terrible conditions, but is asking someone to forgo a few days of down time so the whole company can remain in business such a bad thing? Of course, a big caveat here. If the fat cats are not seen to be sharing the pain too (as they are clearly not) then that is simply wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 I hope there are people out there who can confirm my thoughts on this. My housemate has about 3 days of holiday left before then end of the calendar year. (The end of the alloted term to take their year's allowance) Due to workload though the company is refusing her (or any other staff member) from taking a holiday unless they have explicit proof of a prior arrangement. (E.g. flight tickets.) Now, refusing to allow holiday and needing proof in this way is as far as I am aware is illegal and quite outrageous. Does anyone know just how they think they can get away with this and what rights does my housemate have? Not at all illegal. If there are business challenges to be met that taking holiday means may harm this, then a company is perfectly allowed to do this. Equally if your friend has left it too late too book and other people in a similar position have already booked the time off, meaning they would be short-staffed if your friend was also off, then again they can block holiday. Should have booked time off earlier and booked something up! I get my Christmas booked and flights sorted in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 (edited) If you want to take holiday You must give your employer advance notice that you want to take holiday. This notice should be at least twice as long as the amount of holiday you want to take. For example, you should give two weeks' notice for one week's holiday. Your employer can refuse permission for your holiday as long as they give you notice which is at least as long as the holiday requested. So to refuse a request for a week's leave, they would have to tell you a week in advance. Your contract may set out other rules about when you can take your holiday. This is allowed so long as the rules don't effectively prevent you from taking holiday at all. From: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_10034711 and: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/Timeoffandholidays/DG_171945 Edited 14 November, 2011 by bridge too far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 Bridge to far yes but with out knowing what is implied in the contract or even expressed re holiday terms and conditions. It is possible that there is a reason why this person cannot take leave at a specific time. The public sector will be stopping people having holidays or going off sick during the forth coming strike at the end of the month. They will only be allowed to go on holiday if the have booked a holiday well in advance of the strike day. equally an employee will not be allowed to self certify sickness unless it is supported by a medical certificate Fmed 3. As for private sector if your talking of financial companies such as the pru they are pretty stingy in let people of at xmas and during the summer. They tend to allow staff one or two days of but no more. And staff with families tend to get priority. My girlfriend works there and I have always wanted to spend a week in new York at Christmas / new year but they will not let her have a week off despite her giving 10 months notice. Anyway back to the point in question as long as the company are not reducing the contracted holiday hours or giving less than than the minimum work time directive rates they can refuse holiday requests. On a similar and slighty different point of view I am currently digesting two case re holiday entitlement and sickness with a recent judgement from an EAT Fraser v Southwest London St George’s Mental Health Trust and NHS Leeds V Larner (awaiting COA ruling) it may in many ways overturn the ruling in the Stringer & ors v HMRC. I hope so as it will save the public sector millions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bridge too far Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 Of course the points you make are absolutely valid VW. I wasn't making judgements, just pointing out to the OP that there is basic advice on the government's website. My SiL is a teacher so obviously he's not allowed time off during term time (cue comments about teachers' holidays). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctoroncall Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 What is paid holiday? Never heard of such a thing! It's great! It depends how the company are doing this. It sounds as if there was no consultation with the employees - not the best practise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking Warrior Posted 14 November, 2011 Share Posted 14 November, 2011 (edited) The direct gov sites are useful bridge . I was agreeing with you as for your sil it's not bad 195 days work a year but I would not want to work in over stretched full classrooms full of kids with bad attitudes tho. The kids not teachers . But then there are a few teachers with bad attitudes Edited 14 November, 2011 by Viking Warrior Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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