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Hats off to the EDL


dune

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What about positive discrimination? Where do you stand on that? Haringey council used to advertise jobs and then put "we particularly welcome applications from the black / lesbian, transgender, disabled communities, basically anyone who wasn't a white male.

 

Postive discrimination is something I am vehemently against. I believe it solves nothing, as it treats the symptoms and not the cause. We want the best people possible in jobs, and it is patronising to minorities/females to suggest they can't get there on their own accord.

 

What we need to do is to solve the issues of why there aren't enough females/minorities in certain jobs compared to the percentage they make up in the population. I say the main issue is poverty and education, but it's a complex issue.

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What we need to do is to solve the issues of why there aren't enough females/minorities in certain jobs.

 

It should just be accepted that that is how it currently is and we should allow free market capitalism to organically grow. All this control and interference has been the ruin of this country.

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It should just be accepted that that is how it currently is and we should allow free market capitalism to organically grow. All this control and interference has been the ruin of this country.

 

I think Capitalism is the best system we have, but all systems need rules and regulations and some interference to make it fair. If we want true meritocracy, we have to have equality of opportunity... which is something capitalism does not provide if it is allowed to become rampant.

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I think Capitalism is the best system we have, but all systems need rules and regulations and some interference to make it fair. If we want true meritocracy, we have to have equality of opportunity... which is something capitalism does not provide if it is allowed to become rampant.

 

Rubbish. If a business wants to employ a white male and another white male and another and another that should be for them to decide, not for some idealistic Liberal Elitist. We are losing our competitive edge with all the red tape of the nanny state and that needs to change if we are to rise again as a country.

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Rubbish. If a business wants to employ a white male and another white male and another and another that should be for them to decide, not for some idealistic Liberal Elitist. We are losing our competitive edge with all the red tape of the nanny state and that needs to change if we are to rise again as a country.

 

Ermmm.... that's pretty much what I just said, minus the again ridiculous usage of the phrase 'Liberal Elitist'. I still don't think you understand what Liberalism is.

 

I said that they should be able to employ the best person for the job, and if that is white males, fine, but if it is a black female then also fine. What I am saying is, there are reasons why white males always win at the moment, that positive discrimination WON'T solve. We need better education and treatment of poverty that many ethnic minorities live through... to help even the balance. Not by forcing people to hire certain staff, but by giving everyone the chance to be competitive.

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Ermmm.... that's pretty much what I just said, minus the again ridiculous usage of the phrase 'Liberal Elitist'. I still don't think you understand what Liberalism is.

 

I said that they should be able to employ the best person for the job, and if that is white males, fine, but if it is a black female then also fine. What I am saying is, there are reasons why white males always win at the moment, that positive discrimination WON'T solve. We need better education and treatment of poverty that many ethnic minorities live through... to help even the balance. Not by forcing people to hire certain staff, but by giving everyone the chance to be competitive.

 

Communism doesn't work Andy.

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Rubbish. If a business wants to employ a white male and another white male and another and another that should be for them to decide, not for some idealistic Liberal Elitist. We are losing our competitive edge with all the red tape of the nanny state and that needs to change if we are to rise again as a country.

 

By that token if a company wants to employ an immigrant, an immigrant and another immigrant they should be allowed to, a free labour market would do away with illegal immigration over night. In your wonderful unfettered free market capitalist society the logic is that that the labour market must be free and there would no barriers to immigration.

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By that token if a company wants to employ an immigrant, an immigrant and another immigrant they should be allowed to, a free labour market would do away with illegal immigration over night. In your wonderful unfettered free market capitalist society the logic is that that the labour market must be free and there would no barriers to immigration.

 

I'm talking about a free market within the UK, not allowing even more foreigners in than Labour swamped us with. There aren't enough jobs for our own people FFS.

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So no exports then ! In a totally free market there is no them and us just me me me

 

Of course we'd have exports, i'm just saying that we clearly couldn't allow every foreigners who wanted to come here to roll up on our shores. That said if we stopped providing benefits for foreigners we wouldn't attract so many.

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Of course we'd have exports, i'm just saying that we clearly couldn't allow every foreigners who wanted to come here to roll up on our shores. That said if we stopped providing benefits for foreigners we wouldn't attract so many.

So you are not really for a free market then, and there is the rub, free marketeers do not really want a free market but one that is controlled to suit long standing vested interests.

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So you are not really for a free market then, and there is the rub, free marketeers do not really want a free market but one that is controlled to suit long standing vested interests.

 

Now isolationism is something that doesn't work in capitalism! Look where it got America in the 20's. Mercantilism died out in the 18th century for a reason. It doesn't work in a globalised system.

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Reading the posts on here it appears that if you are against racism and extreme right wing groups such as the EDL then you must be from a white middle class background and have never lived in a council estate???? Now i would expect that type of rubbish from our resident racist and white power crazy poster dunce but it is a bit sad so many others have joined in with the racism on here. How many of you have been victims of racist attacks? discriminations, being stopped by police driving? had your home petrol bombed? been verbally abused in public when out non white partners/friends/family?

 

Anyone who thinks the EDL is not racist really is beyond help.

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So you are not really for a free market then, and there is the rub, free marketeers do not really want a free market but one that is controlled to suit long standing vested interests.

 

This...it's called protectionism and polarises the countries (and by logical default the companies therein) to the degree that foreign investment moves out and their own products are similarly vetoed on the export market - we are then deprived of the opportunity of employing the people who may be best to advance our innovation and output and the markets to sell to.

 

For all the jingoistic waffle produced by Dune's icons there was a genuine purpose in trying to create a 'common market' (remember the phrase?). It was originally conceived to try and facilitate free movement of trade and labour within a geographically close community. The Euro common currency was designed to make this more workable. The 'Empire' and Commonwealth business model had been dying slowly for a century and was far too unwieldy and diverse to control without the army to quell unrest and communications have improved so radically that all countries have the facility to sell or buy their goods wherever they chose to so had no political, geographical or financial reason to stay with a small nation who once had a powerful army and navy...although there has never been any reason that the UK could or should not continue to trade with any existing or new trading nation...the idea of a 'common market' was far from flawed in it's conceptual thinking.

 

The execution has been another story...it would take a P*mpey saga sized thread to talk that one through but it's a similar story to Communism or, for that matter, Capitalism - both work far better in theory than in practise...it's just that Capitalism is the sitting tenant and by it's very ideology is not going to move over for a fairer system...but has had to make a mass of concessions as education and communication improves. The capitalist of a century ago would view the current incarnation as some kind of wishy-washy liberal and Cameron as a raving Bolshevik so the tide is inexorably turning. The current banks induced chaos will do more to further the cause of a socialist based system than years of Tory rhetoric.

 

Longer than I intended, sorry, but insular protectionism is so narrow in thought that I felt perspective was needed

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This...it's called protectionism and polarises the countries (and by logical default the companies therein) to the degree that foreign investment moves out and their own products are similarly vetoed on the export market - we are then deprived of the opportunity of employing the people who may be best to advance our innovation and output and the markets to sell to.

 

For all the jingoistic waffle produced by Dune's icons there was a genuine purpose in trying to create a 'common market' (remember the phrase?). It was originally conceived to try and facilitate free movement of trade and labour within a geographically close community. The Euro common currency was designed to make this more workable. The 'Empire' and Commonwealth business model had been dying slowly for a century and was far too unwieldy and diverse to control without the army to quell unrest and communications have improved so radically that all countries have the facility to sell or buy their goods wherever they chose to so had no political, geographical or financial reason to stay with a small nation who once had a powerful army and navy...although there has never been any reason that the UK could or should not continue to trade with any existing or new trading nation...the idea of a 'common market' was far from flawed in it's conceptual thinking.

 

The execution has been another story...it would take a P*mpey saga sized thread to talk that one through but it's a similar story to Communism or, for that matter, Capitalism - both work far better in theory than in practise...it's just that Capitalism is the sitting tenant and by it's very ideology is not going to move over for a fairer system...but has had to make a mass of concessions as education and communication improves. The capitalist of a century ago would view the current incarnation as some kind of wishy-washy liberal and Cameron as a raving Bolshevik so the tide is inexorably turning. The current banks induced chaos will do more to further the cause of a socialist based system than years of Tory rhetoric.

 

Longer than I intended, sorry, but insular protectionism is so narrow in thought that I felt perspective was needed

 

Thank you for taking the time to explain my point so well. Your comments on the European experiment are very valid; it is not the strategy that is wrong but the delivery. A delivery that has been corrupted by vested national, corporate and selfish individual interests.

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How many of you have been victims of racist attacks? discriminations, being stopped by police driving? had your home petrol bombed? been verbally abused in public when out non white partners/friends/family?

 

Have you Andrew?

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Have you Andrew?

 

I have had plenty of dealings with racists bnp/nf/edl etc over the years dune including being with friends/family/partners while they have been verbally abused/attacked/spat at etc had there homes damaged, forced to move out of areas, find different employment, courses etc due to their race. I have through work seen victims of racist attacks on a regular basis. The type of racist bully boys such as the EDL are all very brave and threatening when in groups but in my experience not so when on their own. It's very sad that Saints appear to have some of thier followers as this club has no history or reputation of racist supporters.

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I have had plenty of dealings with racists bnp/nf/edl etc over the years dune including being with friends/family/partners while they have been verbally abused/attacked/spat at etc had there homes damaged, forced to move out of areas, find different employment, courses etc due to their race. I have through work seen victims of racist attacks on a regular basis. The type of racist bully boys such as the EDL are all very brave and threatening when in groups but in my experience not so when on their own. It's very sad that Saints appear to have some of thier followers as this club has no history or reputation of racist supporters.

 

The EDL are not racist Andrew, they are patriotic. There is a difference, although those of your ilk hate anyone who is proud to be British.

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There is no doubt that the EDl and BNP have a large amount of racist thugs as supporters, that doesn't mean there is not a valid cause behind the movements though. The rights of british people in areas swamped with immigrants should be protected, they shouldn't be expected to have other cultures imposed on them in their own country and expect to say nothing and just put up with it.

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There is no doubt that the EDl and BNP have a large amount of racist thugs as supporters, that doesn't mean there is not a valid cause behind the movements though. The rights of british people in areas swamped with immigrants should be protected, they shouldn't be expected to have other cultures imposed on them in their own country and expect to say nothing and just put up with it.

 

You're right I've lost count the number of times I've been forced to eat Halal meat and go to Mosque on a Friday. Apparently Christmas has been cancelled by my local council but we've been told we can celebrate Divali. Also I'm looking at schools for my son to attend from next Autumn and can't find any that do lessons in English. It's madness.

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The EDL are not racist Andrew, they are patriotic. There is a difference, although those of your ilk hate anyone who is proud to be British.
of course they are patriotic to the likes of you just like the nf and bnp were, when the hijacked the union jack for their facist ideology which our great britsh soldiers fought against and likes of those facist scum which you called patriots murdered the likes of stephen lawrence.
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of course they are patriotic to the likes of you just like the nf and bnp were, when the hijacked the union jack for their facist ideology which our great britsh soldiers fought against and likes of those facist scum which you called patriots murdered the likes of stephen lawrence.

 

brilliant use of association there, so someone who believes in standing up to the group "islam for uk" who planned to disrupt remembrance day or whatever name they go under now is the same as the murderers who killed stephen lawrence ,

 

nice one Solent !!

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Reading the posts on here it appears that if you are against racism and extreme right wing groups such as the EDL then you must be from a white middle class background and have never lived in a council estate???? Now i would expect that type of rubbish from our resident racist and white power crazy poster dunce but it is a bit sad so many others have joined in with the racism on here. How many of you have been victims of racist attacks? discriminations, being stopped by police driving? had your home petrol bombed? been verbally abused in public when out non white partners/friends/family?

 

Anyone who thinks the EDL is not racist really is beyond help.

Yet another one that COMPLETELY misses the point of this thread. Unfortunate.
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Rubbish. If a business wants to employ a white male and another white male and another and another that should be for them to decide, not for some idealistic Liberal Elitist. We are losing our competitive edge with all the red tape of the nanny state and that needs to change if we are to rise again as a country.

 

If a business wants to employ a black female, then another black female, then another and then another, should that also be for them to decide?

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brilliant use of association there, so someone who believes in standing up to the group "islam for uk" who planned to disrupt remembrance day or whatever name they go under now is the same as the murderers who killed stephen lawrence ,

 

nice one Solent !![/quote islam for uk nutters were banned by the home secretary but it did not stop their rival nutters edl toytown soldiers trying to get publicity on remembrance sunday from the real heros of this country and real men. by the way has that crook who leads the toytown soldiers been released from prison yet.thank god the police sorted out those losers.

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German.

 

A little inconvenient if the borders are closed and trade sanctions put in place then...now you know that I also drive a German car and because I liked it I was able to exercise my power of choice to buy it as the market is free and open for me to do so.

 

That would be a good thing ....and one brought about by the fact that there are open trading agreements with the Germans - something that wouldn't be the case if we closed the borders?

 

Now that the Germans have stopped invading Poland they really see that as a developing market..huge potential and they don't even have to change the steering wheel over and then there are the other embryonic economies in Eastern Europe, Africa, Asia that all want to buy their products...because they're good - you and I both voted with our wallets on this?

 

So, it's obviously a good thing for Germany to keep their borders open and make trade between all these nations as simple as possible - I know that you know that my business is that I import things from three different continents so I know that the easier it is the more likely I am to sell those products? Equally if Germany find a good source of cow hides for that nice leather upholstery in these countries then they are able to buy without restriction so it's good all round - isn't it?

 

Yet you would deny the country that you claim (in words if not deeds) you care about and have a fierce patriotic feeling for the same advantages? This would be the result of your favoured parties' stated aims and you (albeit possibly jestingly) wishing to 'brick up the Channel Tunnel'

 

I suspect that thinking things through as opposed to quoting blind platitudes would create a better patriot...certainly the EDL don't seem capable of this....but we stray a little way from a couple of jingoistic self-publicists on a roof but I hope it has been valuable?

 

Thank you for reading...I'm a patronising tw*t aren't I? :-)

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I totally agree, which begs the question, why go to the god awful resorts and not stay where the sights are fantastic?

 

The best of both worlds and cost.

 

Take Tenerife for example, it is a fantastically diverse eco system of extremes, but I wouldn't want to base myself in the middle of nowhere or in a more historic centre such as La Laguna as there's not a lot do once you've done it.

 

In Spain I stayed a couple of nights in Granada, but that was enough, and contrary to your sugestion that Seville was better, the Americans I spoke to on a coach holiday said they prefered Granada as it's more pedestrian friendly and more Spanish. It's one of the last places where you get complimentary tapas. And the Alhambra guided tour is fantastic.

 

In Turkey (a country you are also snobby about) there is history everywhere from all periods as it's the centre of the ancient world. You've got to be utterly blinkered not to appreciate some of the best examples of roman architecture such as the ampitheatre in Side, or Alexander the greats hidden city where he took his army, or sunken city/tombs of kekova, or the church of Saint Nicholas in my Myra (where the real father christmas was the bishop). They are just overloaded with sites of interest in and around resorts.

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The best of both worlds and cost.

 

Take Tenerife for example, it is a fantastically diverse eco system of extremes, but I wouldn't want to base myself in the middle of nowhere or in a more historic centre such as La Laguna as there's not a lot do once you've done it.

 

In Spain I stayed a couple of nights in Granada, but that was enough, and contrary to your sugestion that Seville was better, the Americans I spoke to on a coach holiday said they prefered Granada as it's more pedestrian friendly and more Spanish. It's one of the last places where you get complimentary tapas. And the Alhambra guided tour is fantastic.

 

In Turkey (a country you are also snobby about) there is history everywhere from all periods as it's the centre of the ancient world. You've got to be utterly blinkered not to appreciate some of the best examples of roman architecture such as the ampitheatre in Side, or Alexander the greats hidden city where he took his army, or sunken city/tombs of kekova, or the church of Saint Nicholas in my Myra (where the real father christmas was the bishop). They are just overloaded with sites of interest in and around resorts.

 

I've been to Turkey a number of times since the mid 80s, walked through Roman ruins just to get to the beach, followed the route of the 1st crusade as far as the Syrian border, drunk coffee and Istanbul and appreciate the vast history of the region but that doesn't alter the fact that I despise "resorts".

 

Granada is a great place but the fact that you judge Seville based on the opinions of touring Americans and where you get complimentary tapas illustrates perfectly why you look at so much but see so little.

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I've been to Turkey a number of times since the mid 80s, walked through Roman ruins just to get to the beach, followed the route of the 1st crusade as far as the Syrian border, drunk coffee and Istanbul and appreciate the vast history of the region but that doesn't alter the fact that I despise "resorts".

 

Granada is a great place but the fact that you judge Seville based on the opinions of touring Americans and where you get complimentary tapas illustrates perfectly why you look at so much but see so little.

 

The Yanks were insistent on how much more they enjoyed Granada. What i'm getting at with the free tapas is that Granada still retains a tradition and culture that has been lost elsewhere. I'm sure Seville is very nice and i'll see for myself one day.

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Those nasty racist parish councillors have voted to fly the union flag all year round. A victory against people like Andy Northern Saints and the black person who complained that we dare to fly our flag.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-15660275

 

http://c.moreover.com/click/here.pl?z5472421933&z=1250248740

 

Pathetic small minded bitter people get left behind in life and are reduced to spending their life trolling on the internet.

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